What would you do...?

[roseglass6370]

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Okay, I'm gonna make this as short as possible:

I decided to take an accelerated o-chem course over the summer (1 semester in 4 weeks) in order to graduate on time. Now, half-way into the course, I'm realizing it was a big mistake. The professor doesn't use a textbook, teaches us things different from what he writes in his lecture notes, doesn't have regular office hours, and doesn't check his e-mail except for once in the morning. Basically, I'm worried that my grade is going to be less than stellar.

If I drop it or get a poor grade is there a way that med-schools would still be able to see it, since it's at a different university and the credit DOES NOT TRANSFER to my home university? (My home university doesn't accept it as credit equivalent to their o-chem.) Would I be required to submit the grade or W anyway?

The course isn't at my home university and I'm wondering if I should drop it and get a W or risk getting a 'C' and then retake it at my home university.

Background: My first quarter of college I got 2 C's and the second quarter I didn't go full-time. Since then, I have had straight A's and one B+. (I'm about to start my junior year.)

 

[Web MD]

I know that AMCAS asks you to list all courses you've taken at all colleges you've been enrolled in, so in this case they would see the W or whatever grade you receive even if it's not at your "main" institution. That being said, if you don't list that you took that course from that college, short of an admissions committee plugging your name and social into every US college I don't see how they would ever know. My advice would be to withdraw from the class, especially if you plan on retaking it at your main college again anyway, and just don't list it on your AMCAS. Hopefully lizzy or someone with more insight into admissions can offer some input as well

 

[roseglass6370]

I know that AMCAS asks you to list all courses you've taken at all colleges you've been enrolled in, so in this case they would see the W or whatever grade you receive even if it's not at your "main" institution. That being said, if you don't list that you took that course from that college, short of an admissions committee plugging your name and social into every US college I don't see how they would ever know. My advice would be to withdraw from the class, especially if you plan on retaking it at your main college again anyway, and just don't list it on your AMCAS. Hopefully lizzy or someone with more insight into admissions can offer some input as well

Thanks for your advice! I'm feeling really tense about the whole situation. My pre-med advisor told me to stick it out and keep going, but she then followed that statement by asking if I had already taken gen chem...if that tells you anything, lol.

Yeah, I would love to her Lizzy's advice too.

 

[roseglass6370]

Anyone else able to offer up some advice? :-/

 

[still h0ping]

If you still have that option of dropping the course, why not just drop it? Med schools can't see courses that you've dropped, but they can see W's.. so if you know that you won't be able to do well, I say just drop it.

 

[TFS]

i would personally drop it and eat the W.

even if it doesn't transfer, you have to report it to AMCAS. i believe there is a student tracker service that will show AMCAS all the schools you attended. you can request to block your records at a particular school, but if you apply for financial aid, that goes out the window.

 

[mdbound1987]

If you still have that option of dropping the course, why not just drop it? Med schools can't see courses that you've dropped, but they can see W's.. so if you know that you won't be able to do well, I say just drop it.

Since when does a drop not result in a W? Either you drop it and get a W or you get a grade. Anyways, you can try to get away with not reporting it if you want, but med schools can find out and when they do, you will lose any acceptance you gained. Also, I cannot picture a med school accepting you if reapplying after lying on your application. Even if you make it through med school and get you license to practice medicine, they can take it all away if they find out you lied on your app. So like I said, do it if you want, but that would be the dumbest thing you could ever do.

 

[Evergrey]

My advice would be to withdraw from the class, especially if you plan on retaking it at your main college again anyway, and just don't list it on your AMCAS.

Suffice to say, there are companies that provide this very service. For instance, the National Student Clearinghouse. Schools can easily look you up to see where you've registered as a student. I am definitely not the final authority, but my understanding is that schools have found out before and dismissed students. I mean, that's like someone realizing that a PhD dissertation was plagiarized. In that case, you lose your degree. Is this any different really? Besides, a W is definitely not a game-breaker, even at the top schools. It would be insane to risk so much just for a W grade. In short, I would say I respectfully disagree with your advice.

 

[still h0ping]

Since when does a drop not result in a W? Either you drop it and get a W or you get a grade. Anyways, you can try to get away with not reporting it if you want, but med schools can find out and when they do, you will lose any acceptance you gained. Also, I cannot picture a med school accepting you if reapplying after lying on your application. Even if you make it through med school and get you license to practice medicine, they can take it all away if they find out you lied on your app. So like I said, do it if you want, but that would be the dumbest thing you could ever do.

Wow, calm down there buddy. You should realize that at some universities (at least at mine, and other universities I've taken courses in) there is a difference between WITHDRAWING a course (which results in a W) and DROPPING the course. There's a certain deadline to which if you can drop the course, nothing appears on your transcript. However, after this deadline, there's an option of "withdrawing", in which the W does show up. Can you ease down a bit before jumping to assumptions?

 

[Vadoff]

Maybe you can get really serious, put in triple the effort, and clinch a B?
Try to find/schedule an office meeting with the prof, and learn the material with him.
Or try to find someone in the class that's mastered this stuff, and have him/her help you out.

The simplest solution is to just put in more effort and get the grade.

 

[mvenus929]

I know that AMCAS asks you to list all courses you've taken at all colleges you've been enrolled in, so in this case they would see the W or whatever grade you receive even if it's not at your "main" institution. That being said, if you don't list that you took that course from that college, short of an admissions committee plugging your name and social into every US college I don't see how they would ever know. My advice would be to withdraw from the class, especially if you plan on retaking it at your main college again anyway, and just don't list it on your AMCAS. Hopefully lizzy or someone with more insight into admissions can offer some input as well

If it appears in any way on your transcript (i.e. if you get a W instead of just dropping the course before the deadline, which has probably already passed if you're halfway through the course), do not omit it from AMCAS. You have a valid reason for dropping the course and taking a W, so you'll be able to explain it to admissions committees. But if you lie and don't say that you attended the school, then your application could be pulled and any acceptances you've gained could be taken away. They can do worse after you get out medical school. This is not something to lie about.

 

[roseglass6370]

It's past the deadline to drop a course without the 'W.' So basically, my only options are to accept the W or accept what I might get otherwise.

 

[mdbound1987]

Wow, calm down there buddy. You should realize that at some universities (at least at mine, and other universities I've taken courses in) there is a difference between WITHDRAWING a course (which results in a W) and DROPPING the course. There's a certain deadline to which if you can drop the course, nothing appears on your transcript. However, after this deadline, there's an option of "withdrawing", in which the W does show up. Can you ease down a bit before jumping to assumptions?

Well then I stand corrected. That's fine...I shouldn't have made the assumption that all schools are the same with W's, but don't make an assumption of the tone in which I wrote that response considering we are typing, not talking directly. I was definitely calm...just asserting my opinion. OP, take the W. As someone above said, there are people who get accepted with more than one W. You may be asked about it during your interview, but have an answer ready without making excuses. You will be fine.

 

[still h0ping]

Well then I stand corrected. That's fine...I shouldn't have made the assumption that all schools are the same with W's, but don't make an assumption of the tone in which I wrote that response considering we are typing, not talking directly. I was definitely calm...just asserting my opinion. OP, take the W. As someone above said, there are people who get accepted with more than one W. You may be asked about it during your interview, but have an answer ready without making excuses. You will be fine.

Haha, k sorry, I shouldn't have assumed you had an angry tone either. But I agree, just take the W, you wouldn't want to retake the course.. that wouldn't look much better either.

 

[dadoc90210]

How flexible is your teacher willing to be? In a similar situation my organic teacher would let us drop/pass up until the last day of the summer semester. Most of us set a grade minimum, and reevaluated our situation accordingly.

It's a small concession for the difficultly of the subject matter in such time constraints, but it was worth it.

As far as reporting goes to AMCAS, is it required if you matriculated or even simply registered?

 

[TFS]

How flexible is your teacher willing to be? In a similar situation my organic teacher would let us drop/pass up until the last day of the summer semester. Most of us set a grade minimum, and reevaluated our situation accordingly.

It's a small concession for the difficultly of the subject matter in such time constraints, but it was worth it.

As far as reporting goes to AMCAS, is it required if you matriculated or even simply registered?

if you took a class, regardless of whether you matriculated, you have to report the school. i don't think a W is a huge deal - you can explain it to schools later, and it won't affect your gpa.

 

[Mute98]

will this be your only W? one W is not detrimental-- they may ask you about it, but I do not think it will make your break you

 

[Funky]

If you can find someone who has taken orgo with the same professor, ask how hard the exams are and things like that. You never know even though the professor is unorganized, it might be an easy class. Plus you don't really need organic chemistry in med school (little known fact).

 

[dadoc90210]

if you took a class, regardless of whether you matriculated, you have to report the school.

Thanks for the clarification.

Plus you don't really need organic chemistry in med school (little known fact).

I think that's up for debate. You may not need two semesters of organic or intimate knowledge, but there are a facets of medicine where at least the ground rules of organic will pay rich dividends. Heavy metal poisoning, metabolic diseases, and even physiology relies on it heavily on organic principles. Not to mention pharmacology, biochem, etc.

 

[Isoprop]

I think that's up for debate. You may not need two semesters of organic or intimate knowledge, but there are a facets of medicine where at least the ground rules of organic will pay rich dividends. Heavy metal poisoning, metabolic diseases, and even physiology relies on it heavily on organic principles. Not to mention pharmacology, biochem, etc.

Are you a med student or physician? Didn't see that much ochem reading brs & lippencott's for my undergrad classes. my undergrad pharm, biochem, and physio principles barely relied on the most basic concepts of ochem (most were taught at the end of gchem)-- identity of functional groups, acid-base principles, and stereochemistry. All of this could easily be incorporated/learned in half a lecture.

Is med school significantly different than these classes?

 

[dadoc90210]

Are you a med student or physician? Didn't see that much ochem reading brs & lippencott's for my undergrad classes. my undergrad pharm, biochem, and physio principles barely relied on the most basic concepts of ochem (most were taught at the end of gchem)-- identity of functional groups, acid-base principles, and stereochemistry. All of this could easily be incorporated/learned in half a lecture.

Is med school significantly different than these classes?

I'm neither. I'm an eccentric pre-med whose taken a few graduate level courses and is currently doing immunology based biomedical research.

BRS to me means licensing steps, like boards and USMLE. Maybe you’re referencing something else?
I think a half lecture is hyperbolic, but honestly a single semester of organic leading into biochem with a pre-med twist would have been a nicer preparation than two semesters with the ACS exam servicing as a mid term!
Organic perhaps more than anything is like learning a new language. Our teacher held the belief that being able to take reactants from scratch and synthesizing an organic compound in15-16 steps was the definitive indicator of your knowledge and ability to cope with the material.
Organic as a pure topic taught in med school or required for USMLE? No.
Would the principles learned allow you made educated guesses and extrapolate information when no direct knowledge is available? Yes.
My experience with pharmacology is more neuro/psychological based, but yes organic principles are referenced because there is a lot of biochemistry at play. Functional groups, lipid solubility are important in relation to blood brain barrier, drug absorption. Rational drug design is based on predicting 3d models, which rely heavily on hydrophobic/hydrophilic, R-groups, etc for proteins.
My toxicology book has nearly ½ of it content directed towards biochemistry, particularly mechanism and pathways.
Physiology: cell membranes and their transformation into steroids or chemokines like prostaglandins, maybe more immunology based, but still. Free radical formation, heme groups, myoglobin vs hemoglobin, neurotransmitters, etc.
Sterochemistry can be important as well. Thalidomide, acetaminophen, even some heart medications have isomers that are infamous for varying in efficacy.

As far as med school classes go, the lectures and teams I’ve set on will at best scrape the surface of an underlying mechanism. Biochem is more pathway/disorder related. Lots of enzymes, some get miscoded are missing altogether and can wreak havoc. Knowing what the starting/end material looks like gives a fair indication of the organic processes and what specifically could go wrong. Then again it would depend on the instruction method. Some are case taught, some lectures are system based. Intimate knowledge is saved for the Phd researchers and the lab rats.
Enough of my diatribe. Any docs wanna chime in?

 

[roseglass6370]

This will be my 2nd W...

I forgot that I dropped a course the second quarter of my freshman year.

 

[Frazier]

I'm neither. I'm an eccentric pre-med whose taken a few graduate level courses and is currently doing immunology based biomedical research.

BRS to me means licensing steps, like boards and USMLE. Maybe you’re referencing something else?
I think a half lecture is hyperbolic, but honestly a single semester of organic leading into biochem with a pre-med twist would have been a nicer preparation than two semesters with the ACS exam servicing as a mid term!
Organic perhaps more than anything is like learning a new language. Our teacher held the belief that being able to take reactants from scratch and synthesizing an organic compound in15-16 steps was the definitive indicator of your knowledge and ability to cope with the material.
Organic as a pure topic taught in med school or required for USMLE? No.
Would the principles learned allow you made educated guesses and extrapolate information when no direct knowledge is available? Yes.
My experience with pharmacology is more neuro/psychological based, but yes organic principles are referenced because there is a lot of biochemistry at play. Functional groups, lipid solubility are important in relation to blood brain barrier, drug absorption. Rational drug design is based on predicting 3d models, which rely heavily on hydrophobic/hydrophilic, R-groups, etc for proteins.
My toxicology book has nearly ½ of it content directed towards biochemistry, particularly mechanism and pathways.
Physiology: cell membranes and their transformation into steroids or chemokines like prostaglandins, maybe more immunology based, but still. Free radical formation, heme groups, myoglobin vs hemoglobin, neurotransmitters, etc.
Sterochemistry can be important as well. Thalidomide, acetaminophen, even some heart medications have isomers that are infamous for varying in efficacy.

As far as med school classes go, the lectures and teams I’ve set on will at best scrape the surface of an underlying mechanism. Biochem is more pathway/disorder related. Lots of enzymes, some get miscoded are missing altogether and can wreak havoc. Knowing what the starting/end material looks like gives a fair indication of the organic processes and what specifically could go wrong. Then again it would depend on the instruction method. Some are case taught, some lectures are system based. Intimate knowledge is saved for the Phd researchers and the lab rats.
Enough of my diatribe. Any docs wanna chime in?

So are you a nerd or a geek [or some sort of hybrid]?

 

[dadoc90210]

So are you a nerd or a geek [or some sort of hybrid]?

What's it to ya?

 

[Funky]

I think that's up for debate. You may not need two semesters of organic or intimate knowledge, but there are a facets of medicine where at least the ground rules of organic will pay rich dividends. Heavy metal poisoning, metabolic diseases, and even physiology relies on it heavily on organic principles. Not to mention pharmacology, biochem, etc.

Organic chemistry is the least used of the 4 required science courses for med school (bio, chem, orgo, physics). I guess knowing some basics would help but you don't need to be an expert at it.

 

[ThaliaNox]

Organic chemistry is the least used of the 4 required science courses for med school (bio, chem, orgo, physics). I guess knowing some basics would help but you don't need to be an expert at it.

This is debatable. Heck, my med school has stopped requiring physics as a pre-requisite. Shows how important they think physics is.

Organic chemistry is as useful as you make it. It is possible to understand many topics in terms of organic chemistry, or one can simply memorize things like biochemical pathways or pharmacology. I found it far less painful to understand biochemical goals of things like the Krebs cycle and work back to the appropriate structures knowing basics like a carbon dioxide was lost, or an oxidation or reduction took place. Others simply memorize. Both do fine. Matter of preference.

 

[dadoc90210]

This is debatable. Heck, my med school has stopped requiring physics as a pre-requisite. Shows how important they think physics is.

Wow. What was the rational and do you agree with it? I mean, I just got down with my calc based and honestly it seems more tuned for MCAT than any kind of practical application. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Quester]

Yikes!

I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP, except it's a full year ochem course in 3 months.

So far we've had 2 midterms with 1 midterm and a final to go, and the averages for those two midterms have been lower than 50%. My professor also talks off tangent and draws imaginary things in mid-air. He is extremely rude and doesn't answer questions either.

As a full year course I paid around $1700 and wasted two months already. The last day to drop is in 5 days and it's pretty evident that people either dropped the course already or just stopped showing up.

I am so tempted to just drop it as it is now nearly impossible to be in the A range.

I guess my question would be, would you guys just accept the fact that you won't be able to pull of an A, but just work your butt off to get around a B, hopefully? Or just drop it, regardless of all the time and money you invested because it will heavily affect the BCPM gpa?

I'm also a rising junior taking the course at another institution, but haven't planned taking it at my home institution since I will be prepping for MCAT next year (summer).

 

[Frazier]

Yikes!

I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP, except it's a full year ochem course in 3 months.

So far we've had 2 midterms with 1 midterm and a final to go, and the averages for those two midterms have been lower than 50%. My professor also talks off tangent and draws imaginary things in mid-air. He is extremely rude and doesn't answer questions either.

As a full year course I paid around $1700 and wasted two months already. The last day to drop is in 5 days and it's pretty evident that people either dropped the course already or just stopped showing up.

I am so tempted to just drop it as it is now nearly impossible to be in the A range.

I guess my question would be, would you guys just accept the fact that you won't be able to pull of an A, but just work your butt off to get around a B, hopefully? Or just drop it, regardless of all the time and money you invested because it will heavily affect the BCPM gpa?

I'm also a rising junior taking the course at another institution, but haven't planned taking it at my home institution since I will be prepping for MCAT next year (summer).

I would stick through it and take the B.
If your worried about it hurting your GPA take a couple fluff classes to hedge the damage.

 

[chman]

Yikes!

I'm pretty much in the same boat as the OP, except it's a full year ochem course in 3 months.

So far we've had 2 midterms with 1 midterm and a final to go, and the averages for those two midterms have been lower than 50%. My professor also talks off tangent and draws imaginary things in mid-air. He is extremely rude and doesn't answer questions either.

As a full year course I paid around $1700 and wasted two months already. The last day to drop is in 5 days and it's pretty evident that people either dropped the course already or just stopped showing up.

I am so tempted to just drop it as it is now nearly impossible to be in the A range.

I guess my question would be, would you guys just accept the fact that you won't be able to pull of an A, but just work your butt off to get around a B, hopefully? Or just drop it, regardless of all the time and money you invested because it will heavily affect the BCPM gpa?

I'm also a rising junior taking the course at another institution, but haven't planned taking it at my home institution since I will be prepping for MCAT next year (summer).

Are you sure you are out of A range? I mean, if that many people dropped, and the averages are so low, that means there is a good chance grades will end up curved pretty high if there is any justice in this class.

 

[Frazier]

Are you sure you are out of A range? I mean, if that many people dropped, and the averages are so low, that means there is a good chance grades will end up curved pretty high if there is any justice in this class.

Or perhaps the "bottom of the barrel" dropped out which would result in a "less" generous curve [in comparison]...

Guess you will just have to look into your roseglass for the answer, OP.