plsfoldthx

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In my junior year at a UC, I was taking my 3rd quarter of organic chemistry... we had 2 midterms and during the midterms there was this couple who were cheating in the class. Supposedly, the boyfriend had already taken the class and had done well and was sitting in with his girlfriend during midterms and taking the exam for her. When they were done, they would switch the papers underneath their seats and the gf would turn in her bf's work.

By the time finals came, someone had tattled on them. Before we were about to begin our final, our professor did something he never did before. He took a class roster and started going around the class and checking everybody's IDs one by one. By the time he reached the cheaters, the boyfriend freaked out and bolted, but our ochem TA was this huge buff dude and armlocked him and made him sit in a chair in front of class. The accomplice started bawling. Pretty soon security arrived and he was escorted away as was his gf.

According to people that knew him, he had just graduated and was already accepted into medical school. What would you guess happened to him? Is he immune from repercussions cause he already graduated?
 

GoSpursGo

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First of all: :roflcopter:

Second of all, he's definitely not immune. I'm not sure if that's bad enough to get his acceptance entirely revoked, but they could.
 

whoknows2012

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I would guess nothing...the GF would be in a boatload of trouble though
 

whoknows2012

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First of all: :roflcopter:

Second of all, he's definitely not immune. I'm not sure if that's bad enough to get his acceptance entirely revoked, but they could.
What would they do they can't just force it out of the guy to find out what he's doing with his life, he could be working at McDonalds for all they know. Cheating isn't a misdemeanor or felony or even punishable under law at all...so I'm not quite sure how a medical school would find out? Mass email to all Presidents of medical schools? Doubt it
 

SilentSoldier

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I could only imagine how hard it would be to try to not laugh at this situation if it were happening in the lecture I was in.
 

plsfoldthx

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It kinda sucked... it was really annoying trying to concentrate with that dude bawling in front of the class... I was distracted for the first 30 minutes. I blame that guy for getting a B+ in the class. :mad:
 
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littlejuan

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What would they do they can't just force it out of the guy to find out what he's doing with his life, he could be working at McDonalds for all they know. Cheating isn't a misdemeanor or felony or even punishable under law at all...so I'm not quite sure how a medical school would find out? Mass email to all Presidents of medical schools? Doubt it

They probably know what school he got accepted to. Or at the very least, what schools he applied to. Especially if he had a committee letter written. They could probably just write a letter to AMCAS if they really wanted to. Both of them can be pretty screwed over this, and quite frankly, they pretty much deserve it.
 

GoSpursGo

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What would they do they can't just force it out of the guy to find out what he's doing with his life, he could be working at McDonalds for all they know. Cheating isn't a misdemeanor or felony or even punishable under law at all...so I'm not quite sure how a medical school would find out? Mass email to all Presidents of medical schools? Doubt it
I'm sure they know who the guy is; he probably had to go through the school's pre-med office to get his LORs, etc. They probably would know where he's been accepted, or at minimum, the school he's applied to. They certainly could email those schools to let them know about it if they wanted to; it's not illegal, but it's definitely unethical, and I definitely got some questions in my interviews that were intended to figure out my morals in regards to that sort of situation like cheating.

Whether the school would choose to email those schools and/or if the school he got into is anyone's guess, I'm just saying he's not immune to ramifications if the school finds out.
 

cpants

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The school probably won't do anything to the guy. If they are smart, they will let him walk away and hope he forgets all about it considering they illegally assaulted and detained him (if the armlock and detention in the classroom is true). The girl, however, is screwed.
 

GoSpursGo

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The school probably won't do anything to the guy. If they are smart, they will let him walk away and hope he forgets all about it considering they illegally assaulted and detained him (if the armlock and detention in the classroom is true).
Or, if you want to get technical, he was trespassing since he'd already graduated and wasn't enrolled in the class.
 

starl3tte

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It kinda sucked... it was really annoying trying to concentrate with that dude bawling in front of the class... I was distracted for the first 30 minutes. I blame that guy for getting a B+ in the class. :mad:
imagine how people in the 1st row felt! how loud was he?
 

chman

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Or, if you want to get technical, he was trespassing since he'd already graduated and wasn't enrolled in the class.
Is public university property private? I have sat in a lot of classes I have had no business in...

This guys is an idiot and gets what he deserves. By the time you are accepted to med school you should have more sense than that.
 

cpants

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Or, if you want to get technical, he was trespassing since he'd already graduated and wasn't enrolled in the class.
OP didn't said he already graduated. I was under the impression he was a senior who had already been accepted to medical school, and thus would not be trespassing on university property. Regardless, you aren't allowed to physically detain someone on your property for trespassing. If we are getting technical, I don't think it's even considered trespassing until you ask the person to leave and he refuses or returns or you have clear signage stating private property no trespassing.
 

GoSpursGo

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Is public university property private? I have sat in a lot of classes I have had no business in...

This guys is an idiot and gets what he deserves. By the time you are accepted to med school you should have more sense than that.
I would imagine so; just the same way that some hobo can't waltz into a a "public" school's private lab, I would think they would have the right to refuse to let someone enter their classrooms who isn't enrolled. You were probably alright as a currently enrolled student, but since he was graduated he had no business being there.

Plus, I'm sure it's one of those things where 99% of the time nobody cares because there's no ill will involved. But if you're gonna be a douche like this guy, you can't really complain when you get the book thrown at you.
 

GoSpursGo

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OP didn't said he already graduated. I was under the impression he was a senior who had already been accepted to medical school, and thus would not be trespassing on university property. Regardless, you aren't allowed to physically detain someone on your property for trespassing. If we are getting technical, I don't think it's even considered trespassing until you ask the person to leave and he refuses or returns or you have clear signage stating private property no trespassing.
In my junior year at a UC, I was taking my 3rd quarter of organic chemistry... we had 2 midterms and during the midterms there was this couple who were cheating in the class. Supposedly, the boyfriend had already taken the class and had done well and was sitting in with his girlfriend during midterms and taking the exam for her. When they were done, they would switch the papers underneath their seats and the gf would turn in her bf's work.

By the time finals came, someone had tattled on them. Before we were about to begin our final, our professor did something he never did before. He took a class roster and started going around the class and checking everybody's IDs one by one. By the time he reached the cheaters, the boyfriend freaked out and bolted, but our ochem TA was this huge buff dude and armlocked him and made him sit in a chair in front of class. The accomplice started bawling. Pretty soon security arrived and he was escorted away as was his gf.

According to people that knew him, he had just graduated and was already accepted into medical school. What would you guess happened to him? Is he immune from repercussions cause he already graduated?
Beyond that, I don't have any particular desire to continue debating semantics. The point is it happened, and considering his story, I feel like a judge would laugh in his face if he tried suing the school; I'm sure the school can afford a better lawyer than him, too.
 

cpants

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I would imagine so; just the same way that some hobo can't waltz into a a "public" school's private lab, I would think they would have the right to refuse to let someone enter their classrooms who isn't enrolled. You were probably alright as a currently enrolled student, but since he was graduated he had no business being there.

Plus, I'm sure it's one of those things where 99% of the time nobody cares because there's no ill will involved. But if you're gonna be a douche like this guy, you can't really complain when you get the book thrown at you.
Ah, I see that OP said he did graduate. My bad. I agree that a hobo would not be allowed to waltz into the lab. But if he did, you would not be allowed to armlock him and forcibly detain him as he was trying to leave. You tell him to leave and if he refuses, call the cops. If he starts destroying property or something, you could stop him, but physical presence on private property does not give you the right to assault or detain people.
 
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Ah, I see that OP said he did graduate. My bad. I agree that a hobo would not be allowed to waltz into the lab. But if he did, you would not be allowed to armlock him and forcibly detain him as he was trying to leave. You tell him to leave and if he refuses, call the cops. If he starts destroying property or something, you could stop him, but physical presence on private property does not give you the right to assault or detain people.
Off topic from the OP: In some states, trespassing on your private property does constitute protected use of force to remove someone from your property.
 

cpants

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Off topic from the OP: In some states, trespassing on your private property does constitute protected use of force to remove someone from your property.
Remove from your property is different from detain on your property, especially when the guy was trying to leave. OK, I'll drop it. My point was that the TA did not act appropriately or legally in this case, and while the guy certainly deserves whatever he gets, it might not be in the school's best interest to make a federal case out of it.
 

GoSpursGo

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:shrug: Whatever. I doubt the school brought any criminal charges against him, but I equally doubt he would sue the school for "wrongful detainment" or whatever, as he would be just as eager to make the whole incident go away.
 
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Remove from your property is different from detain on your property, especially when the guy was trying to leave. OK, I'll drop it. My point was that the TA did not act appropriately or legally in this case, and while the guy certainly deserves whatever he gets, it might not be in the school's best interest to make a federal case out of it.
Totally agreed.

Cheating is lame :thumbdown:, don't do it.
 

thesauce

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I think cpants has a point. You can't just assault a guy and detain him without authorization, unless it's a citizens arrest and he was actually doing something illegal.

This reminds me of a crazy story when I was a kid. A couple of my friends "egged" a house and ran off. The lady who lived there recognized one of them and walked to his house, grabbed him in his front yard, and dragged him back to her house to clean the window and door. The cops got called and the lady was arrested for kidnapping. Supposedly, the charges were substantially reduced, but it's pretty crazy nonetheless.
 

oaklandguy

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OP, what actually happened to him?
He got accepted into med-school and will be a doctor practicing among us.

It's pretty crazy that he was taking tests for his girl. I can see like helping someone with homework, or doing a calculation for someone and I've seen people take tests for people and stuff but that is just insane. Takes balls.
 

azrk

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At least where I live if someone is on your property and is trying to leave and you attack/assault/detain him then you are at fault because you are an instigator.

IE: Imagine someone is on your lawn, you start walking toward him but he runs. If you chase him down and physically assault him in anyway you are at fault because you are the instigator. You are starting a problem while he is running from a problem. If he tries to hurt you well then that is another story... Even if he is doing something to your property that is a separate issue and will be treated as such by the police.

I know its kinda dumb but that is how it works here.

I loled at him bawling in front of everyone though. Not very manly :laugh:
 

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I would think he would have gotten his acceptance revoked.

Jeeshhh....Orgo is not THAT bad!
 

silverhorse84

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Is public university property private? I have sat in a lot of classes I have had no business in...

This guys is an idiot and gets what he deserves. By the time you are accepted to med school you should have more sense than that.

You would hope so but it's not always the case. My father is a professor for a pharmacy school, and he has a similar story. Two guys, both in the class, decided to take the test and write the other persons name (one guy was doing well enough to take a dive, and the other was failing out). They got caught because one forgot to write his friend's name, so one guy had two tests and the other had none. They both got kicked out, and neither will be able to enter another pharmacy school in this country.

I hope he learned his lesson - it won't work out so well for him if he does it in medical school!
 

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LOL, so clearly the guy had some sense of shame/guilt/oh **** since he started crying in front of everyone hahaha. But if thats the case, he should've remembered the golden rule, if you can't imagine yourself being ok with the consquences, then don't do it in the first place.
 

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That's freakin hilarious :laugh: If he already graduated, why would he bolt? Nothing can happen to him
 

schrizto

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What happened to the extra test each time?
Yeah, I was wondering that too. In many classes, you can't walk out with a copy of the test, and also in some classes they will let you keep the test itself but have to turn in a scantron.

I don't know what the usual repercussions are in these situations, but I would be surprised if they let him off easy and he was able to go to medical school with no problems.
 
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Here's my take:

1. He wasn't trespassing. If he was there with his girlfriend he probably had every legal right to be there as long as he hasn't been banned from the campus. An academic misconduct being thrown onto his record is also unlikely, since he's already graduated.

2. I do not think that most medical schools have a policy of "you can have your acceptance revoked for any reason" so I doubt they have a clause for his specific situation.

Since it's unlikely he did anything illegal or will ever be convicted of academic misconduct for it he won't be kicked out of medical school. But, and it's a big BUT:

3. If the medical school discovers what's happened, they may look for a reason to revoke his acceptance. Most medical schools have a policy that any mistakes on your primary and secondary are grounds for your application being invalid. My guess is that they'd comb through his applications and look for any mistakes, regardless of how minor, and then give that as the reason for his dismissal.

I think it's unlikely he'll have any negative repercussions though, as unfair as that might be to the rest of us who DON'T do extremely wrong things.
 

Disinence2

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I think we all agree its not the greatest plan.

I have heard rumors of schools actually recalling degrees after finding evidence of students cheating/plagiarizing even after their graduation. So apparently it can happen if the situation is outrageous enough.

I think its interesting that he was willing to risk so much just so his girlfriend could do well on a class. Seems rare to find a case of academic dishonesty that didn't directly benefit the cheater himself.

If he plays his cards right I think its highly likely that nothing serious will come from it, he will become a doctor some day. Probably make him think twice about attempting anything in the future.

Good story
 

cpants

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Here's my take:

1. He wasn't trespassing. If he was there with his girlfriend he probably had every legal right to be there as long as he hasn't been banned from the campus. An academic misconduct being thrown onto his record is also unlikely, since he's already graduated.

2. I do not think that most medical schools have a policy of "you can have your acceptance revoked for any reason" so I doubt they have a clause for his specific situation.

Since it's unlikely he did anything illegal or will ever be convicted of academic misconduct for it he won't be kicked out of medical school. But, and it's a big BUT:

3. If the medical school discovers what's happened, they may look for a reason to revoke his acceptance. Most medical schools have a policy that any mistakes on your primary and secondary are grounds for your application being invalid. My guess is that they'd comb through his applications and look for any mistakes, regardless of how minor, and then give that as the reason for his dismissal.

I think it's unlikely he'll have any negative repercussions though, as unfair as that might be to the rest of us who DON'T do extremely wrong things.
As to point 2, you don't really have to be convicted of anything by a university to get kicked out for academic misconduct. If the school finds out and has good reason to believe he helped someone to cheat, he could easily get canned. Med schools take this stuff really seriously, and for good reason.
 

braluk

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Odds are, nothing happened. The med student is probably too traumatized to do anything about what happened and just wants to steer clear of anything to do with that school for a long time, and the university at most, may notify his school's administration. However, lack of any legal documentation, and possible illegalities in the transpired events would make the claims baseless, and the medical school would have no grounds to warrant any disciplinary action. What anyone does outside of school, everyone is responsible for, but lack of legal intervention would make it difficult for anything to happen. The girlfriend, however, is in big trouble. Only question that remains to be asked is, does the school have proof she cheated? The roster was done in the beginning of class before any "cheating" was done, so his presence alone may be insufficient to involve the honor board for cheating. They could retroactively review her exams to look for discrepancies, I suppose. Any changes that come about from this is most likely going to be professor dependent, such as calling roll, or having a roster signin at the front door with a TA.
 

roseglass6370

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Um, let's talk about the fact that the g/f screwed herself over MAJORLY.

If she was pre-med, she might as well kiss her future MD good-bye...and really her GPA and future at the school good-bye too.

Who cares what happened to the dude!?!
 

addo

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Um, let's talk about the fact that the g/f screwed herself over MAJORLY.

If she was pre-med, she might as well kiss her future MD good-bye...and really her GPA and future at the school good-bye too.

Who cares what happened to the dude!?!
Exactly, I was about to get to that but you beat me to it.
Even if the medical school somehow found out, and came up with an excuse to revoke him, he could just reapply next cycle to a different school. worst case scenario- a year off
 

JaggerPlate

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Laugh ... oh UC schools


I saw a pretty epic cheat catch during a final once too. Professor warned the guy privately and nicely 2x to keep his eyes from wandering (I was sitting close enough to hear), 3x prof announced it in the middle of the test to keep his eyes on his paper ... 4x, walked up, took the test, and kicked him out (the professor was the nicest guy ever and would always cut you slack ... hence 4x before he axed him)

I honestly never understood that mentality ... doing absolutely anything to get a good grade, except for studying/honest work??? Not only that, but in no way shape or form do the rewards outweigh the potential consequences. An A in a 5 unit class out of what ... a total of 180 units in your degree?? VS a first-class ticket to never getting into medical school ... the thing you are selling your soul to achieve???

It's nuts. People who get to the point where they are willing to do this need to step back, and get a little bit of perspective.

And (OP) my honest guess is that the girl probably failed the class, on her record, etc ... the guy. I dunno, if the professor was serious enough to take roll in a o-chem lecture of probably what, 200?? He had probably already notified some higher ups, and was ready to kick some ass. Hopefully the med school was at least notified ... awesome if he got kicked out. There's a spot for someone who isn't a weasel.

Another thing (you can probably tell cheating and goofing up a curve in a class at college where I busted my ass for pisses me off) ...

where does it end? Are you going to cheat in medical school? Rotations??? Are you going to be shady in residency??? What happens when you finally cheat your way to an attending status and you kill somebody because you spent your whole life figuring out punk-ass ways to get around doing the work???

I bet you're going to have a hard time cheating a jury.
 
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Laugh ... oh UC schools


I saw a pretty epic cheat catch during a final once too. Professor warned the guy privately and nicely 2x to keep his eyes from wandering (I was sitting close enough to hear), 3x prof announced it in the middle of the test to keep his eyes on his paper ... 4x, walked up, took the test, and kicked him out (the professor was the nicest guy ever and would always cut you slack ... hence 4x before he axed him)

I honestly never understood that mentality ... doing absolutely anything to get a good grade, except for studying/honest work??? Not only that, but in no way shape or form do the rewards outweigh the potential consequences. An A in a 5 unit class out of what ... a total of 180 units in your degree?? VS a first-class ticket to never getting into medical school ... the thing you are selling your soul to achieve???

It's nuts. People who get to the point where they are willing to do this need to step back, and get a little bit of perspective.

And (OP) my honest guess is that the girl probably failed the class, on her record, etc ... the guy. I dunno, if the professor was serious enough to take roll in a o-chem lecture of probably what, 200?? He had probably already notified some higher ups, and was ready to kick some ass. Hopefully the med school was at least notified ... awesome if he got kicked out. There's a spot for someone who isn't a weasel.

Another thing (you can probably tell cheating and goofing up a curve in a class at college where I busted my ass for pisses me off) ...

where does it end? Are you going to cheat in medical school? Rotations??? Are you going to be shady in residency??? What happens when you finally cheat your way to an attending status and you kill somebody because you spent your whole life figuring out punk-ass ways to get around doing the work???

I bet you're going to have a hard time cheating a jury.

Why would they cheat in undergrad? They're trying to get into med school of course. A process that is hard, where every grade eventually will count and will try to figure out a way to get in. The guy who probably cheats nonstop will get owned. But if this guy cheated once in awhile or for something he really needed to, then it was worth it to him to try it.
 

schrizto

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Exactly, I was about to get to that but you beat me to it.
Even if the medical school somehow found out, and came up with an excuse to revoke him, he could just reapply next cycle to a different school. worst case scenario- a year off
Um, it's even easier to come up with an excuse to reject someone than revoke an acceptance. That guy would have to report that he had an acceptance if he got revoked and then reapplied, and may have to do some explaining.

Um, let's talk about the fact that the g/f screwed herself over MAJORLY.

If she was pre-med, she might as well kiss her future MD good-bye...and really her GPA and future at the school good-bye too.

Who cares what happened to the dude!?!
Why do you care about the girl? She deserves no sympathy here.
 

BrainBuff

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Who cares? Why would anyone want to speculate what happened to those people?
 
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Who cares? Why would anyone want to speculate what happened to those people?
Because it's nice to think that justice prevails in the world, and that scumbag cheaters get their comeuppance. Not that it always happens that way in reality, but we like to think it does.