what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia while pursuing medicine

[doc-Oc]

what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia, while pursuing medicine?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[aim-agm]

what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia, while pursuing medicine?

That you are going to be a good friend and be there for him, and that his condition does not change your view of him.

 

[Mad Jack]

what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia, while pursuing medicine?

I'd tell him that whatever happens, I'll be there for him, and that I'll do whatever I can to help if there's anything I can do. Some people with schizophrenia can be fairly high functioning, it's a pretty wide spectrum.

 

[WingedOx]

define "pursuing medicine"

 

[sliceofbread136]

I have a close relative with a serious mental condition who was once considering medical school. I simply outlined the expectations and difficulties and deferred to his/her judgement if that was something they could handle/would enjoy.

 

[SMIGuy]

Well there is this schizophrenic physician.

But, of course, that is absolutely not the norm. Just be a friend for as long as you can. Also know that I have had far more people tell me they have schizophrenia than I have met people who have schizophrenia. It is a rare disease. Psychiatric diagnoses are often messy and the big three (depression, bipolar, and schizophrenia) get kicked around a lot. When someone tells me they have a mental illness I generally just file it away. If they genuinely do and I am close to them the information will eventually become useful (marginally). If it does become evident that they have a serious mental illness, read I Am Not Sick. I Don't Need Help. If they don't have said serious mental illness then it will never be relevant knowledge.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

As someone who's dealt with mental illness in med school (thankfully it's been manageable) I would be a supportive freind back.

Just make sure they aren't afraid to seek out proper help when needed and that they have a good support system nearby.

 

[thepoopologist]

what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia, while pursuing medicine?

Be supportive.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Tell them you don't have an opinion because you're a figment of his imagination

 

[TBV]

If it was a new dx I would probably suggest that they take some time off to get to terms with it. Maybe get some work experience so they can see how it would effect them before they put 150k on the line and failed out/ couldn't handle being a physician due to the stress.

 

[doc-Oc]

define "pursuing medicine"

in his/her 4th semester of medical school.

 

[PL198]

Well there is this schizophrenic physician.

But, of course, that is absolutely not the norm. Just be a friend for as long as you can. Also know that I have had far more people tell me they have schizophrenia than I have met people who have schizophrenia. It is a rare disease. Psychiatric diagnoses are often messy and the big three (depression, bipolar, and schizophrenia) get kicked around a lot. When someone tells me they have a mental illness I generally just file it away. If they genuinely do and I am close to them the information will eventually become useful (marginally). If it does become evident that they have a serious mental illness, read I Am Not Sick. I Don't Need Help. If they don't have said serious mental illness then it will never be relevant knowledge.

she is a PhD and JD, not a physician.

 

[Mad Jack]

If it was a new dx I would probably suggest that they take some time off to get to terms with it. Maybe get some work experience so they can see how it would effect them before they put 150k on the line and failed out/ couldn't handle being a physician due to the stress.

Any loans taken out would very likely be forgiven under the disability clause of their federal loan terms. They could easily get them tossed out if they ended up completely dysfunctional.

However, there is a very strong chance that a stressful scenario like medical school could cause their symptoms to acutely worsen, and that is something they should be aware of.

 

[Mad Jack]

in his/her 4th semester of medical school.

Currently being treated or no? How long have they carried the diagnosis?

A lot of people in medical school are in the prime age for an initial exacerbation, so I'm betting it's a newer diagnosis.

 

[doc-Oc]

Currently being treated or no? How long have they carried the diagnosis?

A lot of people in medical school are in the prime age for an initial exacerbation, so I'm betting it's a newer diagnosis.

being treated and taking his/her meds. carried the diagnosis since first semester med.

 

[KHE]

what would you tell your friend if he told you he has schizophrenia, while pursuing medicine?

Make sure you take your meds.

 

[doc-Oc]

bump

 

[Cytarabine]

Edit: misread 4th semester as 4th year.

Offer your support as you can. See what support they want (occasional pill count? If they're not doing a long acting injectable). Encourage them to seek professional guidance with their psychiatrist and other advisors they've disclosed the condition to. The 3rd and 4th years are likely to be more stressful than the first two. I don't think a diagnosis of schizophrenia is compatible with a career in clinical medicine for the vast vast majority of those carrying the diagnosis, but it's their decision to make

 

[doc-Oc]

So they're matched into a residency or no?

they are still in their 4th semester of med school.

 

[Cytarabine]

they are still in their 4th semester of med school.

I misread, corrected my post above

 

[solitarius]

In all likelihood, (s)he will have a short career.

 

[Cytarabine]

Surprised how many would be supportive of a schizophrenic taking care of patients. No thanks

I'm okay with a medical board deciding on a case by case basis the possibility of and conditions for practice. I have never met a patient with schizophrenia who functioned at near high enough a level to work as a physician in any capacity, but I won't rule out the possibility

 

[Taddy Mason]

I'm okay with a medical board deciding on a case by case basis the possibility of and conditions for practice. I have never met a patient with schizophrenia who functioned at near high enough a level to work as a physician in any capacity, but I won't rule out the possibility

n=1 but Mark Vonnegut (son of Kurt Vonnegut) was diagnosed with schizophrenia, went through med school at Harvard, and is a practicing pediatrician.

 

[Promethean]

Sure but if you get sick and you're admitted you cannot choose your physician. Last thing I would want is a schizophrenic Doctor taking care of myself or a loved one

As professionals who survive a rigorous education and training, licensed physicians have demonstrated competence to provide you with safe and effective care. If someone carries a diagnosis of schizophrenia, but it has been well managed enough that they were able to get through the trials of becoming a physician and getting their license, they are no less qualified than any other doctor who went through that same process.

You don't know what personal demons and hardships your physicians have needed to overcome in order to provide care for you. Doctors mostly don't share that information with patients, not just because of bias like yours, but because they are focused on your needs not their own history. We already have a system designed to weed out those who can't fulfill the duties of the job. What would be gained by adding another layer of discrimination based upon stigma rather than any measure of the physician's actual performance?

 

[PL198]

As professionals who survive a rigorous education and training, licensed physicians have demonstrated competence to provide you with safe and effective care. If someone carries a diagnosis of schizophrenia, but it has been well managed enough that they were able to get through the trials of becoming a physician and getting their license, they are no less qualified than any other doctor who went through that same process.

You don't know what personal demons and hardships your physicians have needed to overcome in order to provide care for you. Doctors mostly don't share that information with patients, not just because of bias like yours, but because they are focused on your needs not their own history. We already have a system designed to weed out those who can't fulfill the duties of the job. What would be gained by adding another layer of discrimination based upon stigma rather than any measure of the physician's actual performance?

another layer of discrimination? you can't fathom people not wanting a physician with significant medical illness where they can have an episode at any time, no matter how well their illness is controlled?

would you want a bipolar president? is it shocking that we'd expect people who make extremely important decisions for others to be completely healthy mentally?

 

[Gambler 101]

He is already in medical school and should be given the opportunity to finish and have a fulfilling career. That being said, he has an uphill battle.

Third and fourth year are very stressful and require huge levels of interpersonal skills and communication (most of your grade is based on interaction). There are many stressors and decompensation triggers. He will need lots of support from roommates, counsellors, psychiatrist, etc to ensure he is taking meds and coping appropriately. Maybe consider a monthly injectable (if insurance covers it). He needs to avoid decompensation.

Once he survives all of this he will have to apply for residency, and they do ask questions on ERAS about this which could be problematic. Plus there's the stress of interviews. However, depending on the field he chooses (rads, path, psych, anything low stress), he could be just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Gambler 101]

another layer of discrimination? you can't fathom people not wanting a physician with significant medical illness where they can have an episode at any time, no matter how well their illness is controlled?

would you want a bipolar president? is it shocking that we'd expect people who make extremely important decisions for others to be completely healthy mentally?

How many schizophrenics do you know? How much time have you spent with them? Often the biggest problem isn't hallucinations (meds work well for that); it's the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Every field of medicine is different. Obviously a high stress ED may not be the best place for someone with schizophrenia, but they may do just fine on the Psych floor, path lab, rads area, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Promethean]

I know you're a liberal but I'm not going to be treated by someone who can have a psychotic episode at any time

You can't be treated by a human being, then.

Anyone who has an organic brain can experience a change in its functioning at any time. If anything, someone with a mental illness who has been diagnosed and is being effectively treated has more support to keep them on track and notice if they are having difficulties than does the average doctor.

 

[Cytarabine]

You can't be treated by a human being, then.

Anyone who has an organic brain can experience a change in its functioning at any time. If anything, someone with a mental illness who has been diagnosed and is being effectively treated has more support to keep them on track and notice if they are having difficulties than does the average doctor.

I don't think thats a fair characterization of the situation.

Regardless, take the pediatrician example above. An individual with schizophrenia working not just in medicine but in a clinical setting. I don't know how he practices, but conditions for practice could include adherence to observed or LAI antipsychotic administration, practicing in a group practice office where he has close contact with other physicians who know his condition and can serve as a monitor, random chart review, etc

 

[Law2Doc]

n=1 but Mark Vonnegut (son of Kurt Vonnegut) was diagnosed with schizophrenia, went through med school at Harvard, and is a practicing pediatrician.

As with all diseases there are a range, from extremely mild cases to extremely severe cases. This is really n=0 because they are very possibly not in the same ballpark. Don't extrapolate one persons atypically good results to someone else.

Just because Magic Johnson or Charlie Sheen isn't dying of AIDS or Pam Anderson isn't sick from her Hep C doesn't mean those are useful comparisons to the tens of thousands of people who aren't so lucky.

 

[TBV]

I found it to be nuts that we let people with active visual hallucinations drive. One patient says she sees figures dart out in front of her car but my attending said "it would be very debilitating to take her license away". That's sad and all for her but if I get rammed into oncoming traffic cause she swerved to avoid a unicorn I'm going to be none too thrilled.

 

[PL198]

You can't be treated by a human being, then.

Anyone who has an organic brain can experience a change in its functioning at any time. If anything, someone with a mental illness who has been diagnosed and is being effectively treated has more support to keep them on track and notice if they are having difficulties than does the average doctor.

.... Facepalm

 

[Taddy Mason]

As with all diseases there are a range, from extremely mild cases to extremely severe cases. This is really n=0 because they are very possibly not in the same ballpark. Don't extrapolate one persons atypically good results to someone else.

Just because Magic Johnson or Charlie Sheen isn't dying of AIDS or Pam Anderson isn't sick from her Hep C doesn't mean those are useful comparisons to the tens of thousands of people who aren't so lucky.

I realize this and hesitated to make that post (as worded) for that, among other reasons. My career for several years prior to med school was in mental health, my spouse has worked in mental health for 10+ years, and I’ve married into a family with a VERY strong genetic proclivity for bipolar disorder/schizoaffective disorder/schizophrenia – I am very well aware that the spectrum of disease severity is quite broad and varies from person to person. My response was more of a reaction to those taking the stance that being diagnosed with schizophrenia precludes one from becoming a competent practicing physician.

Both my spouse and I have had patients with schizophrenia etc. who managed to maintain highly functional lives and careers in areas such as law, medicine, and pharmacy. I admit these cases are more often the exception, and can honestly probably recall more cases where an individual lost his/her right to practice professionally due to mental illness. I realize the outcome is very specific to the individual, and perhaps should have made that more apparent in my previous post.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Came across this speech from Mark Vonnegut at a NAMI convention a few years back and thought it was pretty good and relevant to the thread https://web.archive.org/web/20100218065648/http://www.namimass.org/conv2003/mvspeaks.htm

 

[Pacna]

I know you're a liberal but I'm not going to be treated by someone who can have a psychotic episode at any time

1. "but" should be used to separate related thoughts.
2. Yeah, you will. If you're worried about Liberals allowing schizophrenics to practice medicine, check which side of the political spectrum predominantly teaches in medical schools.

 

[PL198]

1. "but" should be used to separate related thoughts.
2. Yeah, you will. If you're worried about Liberals allowing schizophrenics to practice medicine, check which side of the political spectrum predominantly teaches in medical schools.

liberals?? is this a trick question? who knew people in academia trended towards liberalism. mind blown

 

[doc-Oc]

thank you to all who for posting. I would like to know more perspectives.