What's a cookie cutter applicant?

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osprey099

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I hear cookie cutter used a lot on here. Anyone care to describe what type of applicant it points to?
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hospital volunteering
research
some shadowing
some tutoring
3.6/30
maybe involved with a club
 
osprey099 said:
I hear cookie cutter used a lot on here. Anyone care to describe what type of applicant it points to?
Click to expand...


They type of applicant who has all "standard" "seen a million times" EC's and Stats.

Example:

3.6/32MCAT
Moved pts in a wheel chair hospital volunteering
Washed glassware research
Shadowed one doctor


Basically highly predictable.
 
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But why are they called cookie cutters? Does cookie cutter mean something outside sdn?
 
As I understand it...not too fancy of a term. It refers to an applicant who appears to be completing the typical pre-med regimen of activities (in a checklist fashion) with the intention of appeasing admission committees instead of engaging in substantive and meaningful activities. The applicant may blend in, as a result, and really have no unique aspects of their application because they just, presumably, are following the herd.

I assume that the notion cookie cutter is not limited to a vacuum of SDN...and that its connotations can extend into other professions.

Cookie cutter, as an object, refers to a tool that can cut dough in identical fashions to make the same cookie shapes repeatedly...if that's what you are asking...
 
osprey099 said:
But why are they called cookie cutters? Does cookie cutter mean something outside sdn?
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yes. Just think about the fact that cookie cutters produce the same exact shape... every cookie being identical.
 
It's just another way of saying that there is nothing unique about the applicant.. they are just like every other average joe.
 
Ahh i see. Didn't know cookie cutter was a real object hehe
 
ADolefulDream said:
They type of applicant who has all "standard" "seen a million times" EC's and Stats.

Example:

3.6/32MCAT
Moved pts in a wheel chair hospital volunteering
Washed glassware research
Shadowed one doctor


Basically highly predictable.
Click to expand...

I actually lol'd about your sarcastic examples (washed glassware research haha) so true with a lot of people. Anyways, is moving pts in a wheelchair considered bottom tier in terms of pt interaction? Does it even help if someone actually did have that, or would it be best to shy away from gigs where you do that?
 
Luelinks said:
I actually lol'd about your sarcastic examples (washed glassware research haha) so true with a lot of people. Anyways, is moving pts in a wheelchair considered bottom tier in terms of pt interaction? Does it even help if someone actually did have that, or would it be best to shy away from gigs where you do that?
Click to expand...

It is not the most desirable position to have, but it can lead to greater opportunities once the hospital staff become more familiar with you. My friend actually started off by moving patients in wheelchairs at her local hospital and ended up meeting a physician who she now shadows regularly. The physician saw how well she interacted with the patients and asked her if she was interested in a career in medicine and ultimately invited her to shadow him!

I know this is an exception, but not all opportunities are attained through the same path 🙂
 
In all likelihood, an applicant will have to engage in at least one cookie cutter activity for med school. I wouldn't say any of those activities by themselves are looked down upon. It's simply when applicant seems to be tacking on one activity after the other and spreading themselves thin that they come across as the cookie cutter type. I think as long as you pick a few pre-med activities you're truly interested in and invest yourself in them, and also make sure to pursue non-medical hobbies/interests that you enjoy, you'll be fine. Not everyone can cure cancer or start a foundation that leads to the end of world hunger.
 
EBTrailRunner said:
In all likelihood, an applicant will have to engage in at least one cookie cutter activity for med school. I wouldn't say any of those activities by themselves are looked down upon. It's simply when applicant seems to be tacking on one activity after the other and spreading themselves thin that they come across as the cookie cutter type. I think as long as you pick a few pre-med activities you're truly interested in and invest yourself in them, and also make sure to pursue non-medical hobbies/interests that you enjoy, you'll be fine. Not everyone can cure cancer or start a foundation that leads to the end of world hunger.
Click to expand...

👍
 
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notbobtrustme said:
hospital volunteering
research
some shadowing
some tutoring
3.6/30
involved with a club
Click to expand...

+1 This is perfect after small fix.

I find it hilarious how this is average and unlikely to get you accepted. The standard for medical school is so ridiculously high these days...you were a shoo-in to med school with these things 10 years ago (or so one high ranking adcom shared with us).
 
Patchy said:
It is a type of applicant that gets in by the truckload.

ECs are like gambling. An EC can decrease your chances of admission if the person reading dislikes it. It won't matter how much you enjoy it, how passionate you are about it, or how deeply intimately personal it is for you.

Cookie-cutter applicants do the safest bets, like clinical volunteering.
Click to expand...

I would love to see some data to back up that claim. An average GPA of ~3.6 coupled with an average MCAT of ~30 only gives you ~58% chance of admission. By average I mean average for those who are accepted to MD schools. Do you have data to show that cookie cutter EC's will make those awful odds into great ones?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625
 
Patchy said:
The number of applicants is large, and I can only read about a small fraction of them. I believe that because of reading the many profiles that people post here. Many of the most successful ones, including that get into the top 10, are cookie-cutter applicants.
Click to expand...

I would have been a lot happier if you could have pulled some data. It would remove some stress from myself. 🙂
 
One probably should not be satisfied being a cookie cutter applicant, partially because of the risk involved. It devolves into the admissions crapshoot we whine about. 😉 How else should adcoms distinguish between the thousands of nearly identical hopefuls?
 
dear god.

TIL i am cookie cutter.

HOW DO I BECOME UNCOOKIE CUTTER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
Luelinks said:
I actually lol'd about your sarcastic examples (washed glassware research haha) so true with a lot of people. Anyways, is moving pts in a wheelchair considered bottom tier in terms of pt interaction? Does it even help if someone actually did have that, or would it be best to shy away from gigs where you do that?
Click to expand...


It is down there, but everyone has to start somewhere 🙂 Besides it is better then delivering coffee 😉
 
Can we argue that everyone is a cookie cutter applicant? Everyone needs required courses and MCAT. But when it comes to ECs, aren't all pre-meds doing the same things? For instance, the typical pre-mes may have under 100 hours of volunteering, but a so-called non-cookie cutter can have hundreds or thousands of hours. It becomes a race to have the most hours or different number of same activities. The same applies to other things like research or so-called leadership roles. Everyone doez same things, but the non-cookie cutters pile more of the same. Some activities used to look cool. Now I see pre-meds asking if volunteering overseas would look good, and the response is that it doesn't. It used to look good but now everyone does it! Pre-meds ruin plenty of things that used to ve unique, but now are expected. Very sad. It becomes a game of deception whether one admits it or not. I am grateful I am in school, and do not need to play this game anymore.
 
ADolefulDream said:
They type of applicant who has all "standard" "seen a million times" EC's and Stats.

Example:

3.6/32MCAT
Moved pts in a wheel chair hospital volunteering
Washed glassware research
Shadowed one doctor


Basically highly predictable.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. Volunteering, shadowing, maybe some research, average grades & MCAT are more or less required for admission to a medical school.
 
In addition to the great examples above:

If a male, wears a dark blue suit and matching tie to the interview.
Wanted to be a doctor "ever since they can remember".
Want to volunteer for humanitarian foreign missions (or at least, claim to)after they pay all their loans.
Are members of the pre-med club (a useless endeavour, especially in the era of the internet).
Have allergies.
Recently discovered their love for golf.
Mommy / Daddy is a professional, an engineer or a teacher.
Listens to "easy listening" or classical music while studying.
Have had a steady boyfriend/girlfriend for over a year at some point.
Hate mean people.
Claim not to be prejudiced against any group.
Want to solve all of society's problems, heal addicts and the homeless and turn them into hard working, productive members of society.
Are against hunting.
 
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dpsPanda said:
I agree with this, everyone does pretty much the same types of activities, but everyone wants to think their activities are somehow unique. :/ It's possible to be interesting even when doing relatively standard ECs. I'd like to think that adcoms are pretty good at detecting which people are doing things out of genuine passion vs. people who are just doing it to collect hours and check a box on their checklist.
Click to expand...

Exactly. There are ECs that you do not for an application, but because it is fun and you are passionate about it. The therapy rider thing in another thread is a great example of that. Sports are another; I've yet to see someone join a team "because this is going to look great on my app." :laugh: I personally work a lot with cats and kittens. You won't see many pre-meds doing hours and hours of animal stuff. While we all volunteer, etc, it's what you do and how you do it.
 
Patchy said:
The number of applicants is large, and I can only read about a small fraction of them. I believe that because of reading the many profiles that people post here. Many of the most successful ones, including that get into the top 10, are cookie-cutter applicants.
Click to expand...

Don't make this mistake. Part of the idea of a cookie-cutter applicant is mediocrity. For example, two people doing research don't make them both cookie-cutter. If one is just washing glassware or maybe does only a summer of research, than that's closer to cookie-cutter. If the other has published a paper, has presented at conferences, and perhaps has done research for 2+ years--this is no longer cookie-cutter. This is above and beyond what a cookie-cutter applicant would do.

On MDApps people have the tendency to just throw around activities without ever giving the scope of their involvement ("Did research, joined a couple clubs, volunteering, etc etc"). That "research" could mean just a semester of washing dishes or many years of designing their own experiments, etc. The people getting into the top 10 schools are more likely to be the latter.
 
dpsPanda said:
I agree with this, everyone does pretty much the same types of activities, but everyone wants to think their activities are somehow unique. :/ It's possible to be interesting even when doing relatively standard ECs. I'd like to think that adcoms are pretty good at detecting which people are doing things out of genuine passion vs. people who are just doing it to collect hours and check a box on their checklist.
Click to expand...

Either the applicants who do the activities because of genuine reasons or those who can fake their personal statements and interviews will succeed. Both sides on this site can be very militant with each other. It looks like using freetime for personal pleasure is wrong. It is bad it has come to this.
 
Narmerguy said:
Don't make this mistake. Part of the idea of a cookie-cutter applicant is mediocrity. For example, two people doing research don't make them both cookie-cutter. If one is just washing glassware or maybe does only a summer of research, than that's closer to cookie-cutter. If the other has published a paper, has presented at conferences, and perhaps has done research for 2+ years--this is no longer cookie-cutter. This is above and beyond what a cookie-cutter applicant would do.

On MDApps people have the tendency to just throw around activities without ever giving the scope of their involvement ("Did research, joined a couple clubs, volunteering, etc etc"). That "research" could mean just a semester of washing dishes or many years of designing their own experiments, etc. The people getting into the top 10 schools are more likely to be the latter.
Click to expand...

Cookie cutter means typical, garden variety applicant. They make it harder to chose because of the vast amount of similarities shared between them.
 
Narmerguy said:
Don't make this mistake. Part of the idea of a cookie-cutter applicant is mediocrity. For example, two people doing research don't make them both cookie-cutter. If one is just washing glassware or maybe does only a summer of research, than that's closer to cookie-cutter. If the other has published a paper, has presented at conferences, and perhaps has done research for 2+ years--this is no longer cookie-cutter. This is above and beyond what a cookie-cutter applicant would do.

On MDApps people have the tendency to just throw around activities without ever giving the scope of their involvement ("Did research, joined a couple clubs, volunteering, etc etc"). That "research" could mean just a semester of washing dishes or many years of designing their own experiments, etc. The people getting into the top 10 schools are more likely to be the latter.
Click to expand...

A mediocre cookie cutter applicant can also spin typical activities into something interesting in their personal statements or interviews. They can describe how important cleaning glassware was to getting great results, or how many patients lives were dramatically improved by restocking supplies or filing paperwork.

The words have a way.
 
AllDaWEI said:
A mediocre cookie cutter applicant can also spin typical activities into something interesting in their personal statements or interviews. They can describe how important cleaning glassware was to getting great results, or how many patients lives were dramatically improved by restocking supplies or filing paperwork.

The words have a way.
Click to expand...

I imagine it would be really difficult for the adcom to take the applicant seriously if they listed cleaning glassware as one of their most significant experiences. Words may help put your experience into context and add meaning, but using them to fluff is well....🙄

If all you're doing is cleaning glassware, figure out if there is a way to get more involved. Take some initiative.
 
AllDaWEI said:
A mediocre cookie cutter applicant can also spin typical activities into something interesting in their personal statements or interviews. They can describe how important cleaning glassware was to getting great results, or how many patients lives were dramatically improved by restocking supplies or filing paperwork.

The words have a way.
Click to expand...

While I am usually an enthusiastic bull spinner, I don't think that even Rumpelstiltskin could spin cleaning glassware into a gold research EC on level with publications or involvement in experimental design. 🙄

EDIT: Same words, same emoticon. The early bird gets the worm. 🙂
 
Slowpoke said:
I imagine it would be really difficult for the adcom to take the applicant seriously if they listed cleaning glassware as one of their most significant experiences. Words may help put your experience into context and add meaning, but using them to fluff is well....🙄

If all you're doing is cleaning glassware, figure out if there is a way to get more involved. Take some initiative.
Click to expand...

LOLZ! I agree. Volunteering is easier to spin.
 
Kadava Reviva said:
Cookie cutter means typical, garden variety applicant. They make it harder to chose because of the vast amount of similarities shared between them.
Click to expand...

😕 Are you suggesting that it would be hard to chose between a glassware cleaner and a person that's published research papers?

Again, similarity doesn't mean equality. We both do research. That makes us similar. One of us washes glasses while the other does original experimental design and presents at international conferences. That makes us unequal and provides an easy way to choose between us.
 
MartletMD said:
While I am usually an enthusiastic bull spinner, I don't think that even Rumpelstiltskin could spin cleaning glassware into a gold research EC on level with publications or involvement in experimental design. 🙄

EDIT: Same words, same emoticon. The early bird gets the worm. 🙂
Click to expand...

:laugh:
 
V5RED said:
I would love to see some data to back up that claim. An average GPA of ~3.6 coupled with an average MCAT of ~30 only gives you ~58% chance of admission. By average I mean average for those who are accepted to MD schools. Do you have data to show that cookie cutter EC's will make those awful odds into great ones?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=838625
Click to expand...

Considering that all applicants have a 44% chance of getting in (applicants accepted/applicants applied), being "cookie cutter" is a 15 point advantage. Yes, I know it's more complicated than that, but at a rough, quick glance that's how it works.

The underlying problem is that medical school admission has gotten so competitive that being great isn't enough. You have to be stellar in order to "guarantee" admission. Being good/great is helpful, but that's why so many people will apply to 15+ schools so that they can get a couple interviews and hopefully acceptances.
 
EBTrailRunner said:
In all likelihood, an applicant will have to engage in at least one cookie cutter activity for med school. I wouldn't say any of those activities by themselves are looked down upon. It's simply when applicant seems to be tacking on one activity after the other and spreading themselves thin that they come across as the cookie cutter type. I think as long as you pick a few pre-med activities you're truly interested in and invest yourself in them, and also make sure to pursue non-medical hobbies/interests that you enjoy, you'll be fine. Not everyone can cure cancer or start a foundation that leads to the end of world hunger.
Click to expand...
Most people who get into med school did some/all cookie cutter activities, and I was certainly one of them. Med school admissions favors a fair amount of similarity (even if they say they want diversity, they end up selecting for a pretty typical applicant), and so doing some research, shadowing, volunteering and getting clinical exposure is basically considered a must for most schools.

Just make sure you put in a solid effort for each. A token attempt at each doesn't count.
 
Narmerguy said:
😕 Are you suggesting that it would be hard to chose between a glassware cleaner and a person that's published research papers?

Again, similarity doesn't mean equality. We both do research. That makes us similar. One of us washes glasses while the other does original experimental design and presents at international conferences. That makes us unequal and provides an easy way to choose between us.
Click to expand...

But how do you differentiate among those who had publications? Clearly this is a common thing to have. It is not unique. This comes back to address the question being asked. Since there are many premeds doing research and put their names in publications, they are still doing something common. Therefore they are cookie cutters anyhow! Where do you draw the line between mediocre research and unique research, when research itself is expected from premeds.

Still, unless they developed a new drug or cured cancer they are all doing the same expected thing, whether cleaning glassware or being published. Many pre-meds clean glassware and many conducf experiments mentioned above.

This cookie cutter problem goes full circle.
 
Narmerguy said:
😕 Are you suggesting that it would be hard to chose between a glassware cleaner and a person that's published research papers?

Again, similarity doesn't mean equality. We both do research. That makes us similar. One of us washes glasses while the other does original experimental design and presents at international conferences. That makes us unequal and provides an easy way to choose between us.
Click to expand...

Glassware vs research paper are hardly similar. Some students may have both.
Oh, I get it. Sarcasm.😀
 
MissMed said:
haha so that was the problem! Is English a second language for you?
Click to expand...

Nope lol I just never made cookies before or dealt with anything that might have required something like a cookie cutter haha
 
AllDaWEI said:
But how do you differentiate among those who had publications? Clearly this is a common thing to have. It is not unique. This comes back to address the question being asked. Since there are many premeds doing research and put their names in publications, they are still doing something common.
Click to expand...

From what I've read from adcoms, applicants with pubs are not common
 
osprey099 said:
Nope lol I just never made cookies before or dealt with anything that might have required something like a cookie cutter haha
Click to expand...

Watch way more TV. You'll pick up on idioms that you never even thought could have a place in the English language. :laugh:
 
PantherPride said:
From what I've read from adcoms, applicants with pubs are not common
Click to expand...

Oh. That is surprising. Probably the SDN members do so more than the general population. Sort of throws you off sometimes. 🙂

At least it is uncommon for now. I think that with time it will be the norm. A good example of this are mission trips. Years ago it might have looked really cool and definitely helped applicants get into school. Pre-meds managed to ruin this, and since it is so common now, it no longer looks good to the ADCOMs. Do a search and you will find threads on this. Even LizzyM said so. This is not to say that all pre-meds do this to look good, but when a pre-med starts a thread asking about this, they are quickly shot down. While I do not know for certain, but maybe years ago pre-meds only volunteered twenty hours or so. Now it is common to see numbers in the hundreds or thousands.

Pre-meds keep pushing the bar higher and higher. Soon I bet winter and spring breake freetime will be an endangered specie. 🙁
 
AllDaWEI said:
Pre-meds keep pushing the bar higher and higher. Soon I bet winter and spring breake freetime will be an endangered specie. 🙁
Click to expand...

They already don't exist for some.

Posting from the lab 🙁
 
I think this captures the meaning of "cookie cutter applicant" well 😉
Frazier said:
Enjoy...

medschoolo.jpg
Click to expand...
 
EnergyDrink said:
They already don't exist for some.

Posting from the lab 🙁
Click to expand...

Ouch! Sorry to hear. The pre-meds not doing research might have a little to themselves left. I hypothesize that something in the form of medical missions/volunteering projects will become the new standard. Breaks will be gone as we know it.
 
AllDaWEI said:
Oh. That is surprising. Probably the SDN members do so more than the general population. Sort of throws you off sometimes. 🙂

At least it is uncommon for now. I think that with time it will be the norm. A good example of this are mission trips. Years ago it might have looked really cool and definitely helped applicants get into school. Pre-meds managed to ruin this, and since it is so common now, it no longer looks good to the ADCOMs. Do a search and you will find threads on this. Even LizzyM said so. This is not to say that all pre-meds do this to look good, but when a pre-med starts a thread asking about this, they are quickly shot down. While I do not know for certain, but maybe years ago pre-meds only volunteered twenty hours or so. Now it is common to see numbers in the hundreds or thousands.

Pre-meds keep pushing the bar higher and higher. Soon I bet winter and spring breake freetime will be an endangered specie. 🙁
Click to expand...

Academic standards are increasing, too.The average gpa for med school matriculants raised from 3.6 to nearly a 3.7, and the mcat from a ~29 to a ~31. I'm just happy I'll be applying in this generation and not the next considering how much more difficult it's becoming to get any higher education. With how things are going now, 10 years from now you'll need a 3.8 gpa to be considered competitive.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with being a "cookie cutter pre-med." The schema exists because it works. But once you hit top tier med schools, it falls apart.
 
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