dnc79

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Given all the discussion regarding finances recently, I was wondering what people think is a fair salary for interns and residents? Obviously we are grossly underpaid given the number of hours we work, not to mention the debt that most have accrued to get to this level. If your average PGY1 is making ~$40K, what would most people think is reasonable given the above factors?
 

Dunce

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dnc79 said:
Given all the discussion regarding finances recently, I was wondering what people think is a fair salary for interns and residents? Obviously we are grossly underpaid given the number of hours we work, not to mention the debt that most have accrued to get to this level. If your average PGY1 is making ~$40K, what would most people think is reasonable given the above factors?
65
 

Vox Animo

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Dunce said:

agreed. Make more people willing to go into medicine i would think. And i would care less about a smaller salary when i graduated. with 65 you could start on the loans. Not a sprint, but diffinaetly a little jog.
 

NinerNiner999

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Actually, I think that 40k is perfect. All things considered, when you raise your salary above the federal loan deferrment rate, you have to start paying for your loans, which would mean that at 65k with a loan payment, you are spending 1000/month on loans (which after taxes will come out to less than 40k). Personally I think that lowering the COST of medical education to something closer to this planet would attract more applicants.
 

Faebinder

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I agree with Niner unfortunately.... I'd like to still be able to defer and medical school future tuition and loans are on the rise...so the salary should be rise at the same rate so you don't lose that ability to defer.
 

Faebinder

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NinerNiner999 said:
And what's so bad about that ;)

:cool: It's bad cause I agree to get paid less. Scary concept.
 

8744

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NinerNiner999 said:
Actually, I think that 40k is perfect. All things considered, when you raise your salary above the federal loan deferrment rate, you have to start paying for your loans, which would mean that at 65k with a loan payment, you are spending 1000/month on loans (which after taxes will come out to less than 40k). Personally I think that lowering the COST of medical education to something closer to this planet would attract more applicants.
Whoa. Speak for yourself. We consolidated my loans and are making a pretty low payment. $40,000 per year is nowhere near perfect especially if you have a family.
 

Jocomama

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Interesting topic to ponder, but unfortunately, it is just that: Ponder
With the powers that be cutting the work hours, and the need for more PAs, etc - and with Resident Salaries coming from Medicare - ain't nothing we can do.
Only advice - state school or marry rich

I left a 200K banking slot to make $22.7K last 2 yrs to go back into medicine.
Just dealt with it. If you wake up and like what you do, the rest will come.
If you concern yourself with the $$, you may never find peace of mind.

Homer: "Doooot!" What am I doing on this site when I gotsta be writing papers! :confused:

Panda Bear said:
Whoa. Speak for yourself. We consolidated my loans and are making a pretty low payment. $40,000 per year is nowhere near perfect especially if you have a family.
 

johankriek

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Jocomama said:
I left a 200K banking slot to make $22.7K last 2 yrs to go back into medicine.
:

Thats just craziness.. really is!!

you will soon find out what i mean if you dont already..
 

Vox Animo

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call me crazy, but i think getting 65 and paying 25K back in loans (thus living on 40K) is way better off in the future than just getting paid 40K while interest on loans accumulate...
 

Faebinder

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Vox Animo said:
call me crazy, but i think getting 65 and paying 25K back in loans (thus living on 40K) is way better off in the future than just getting paid 40K while interest on loans accumulate...
You know when you put it like that, you convinced me for more (didn't take much either.) :laugh: Whenever my school loans are mentioned... every sphinctor in my body cringes.
 

footcramp

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i think 70k as an intern, 100k as pgy2+. PAs get paid more than that and by the time you are pgy2 you are pretty much on an even level if not more advanced.
 

NinerNiner999

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Ahh yes, but don't forget about taxes and student loan interest deduction. You will still pay tax on every cent you use to pay off your loans, and if you earn more than 65k, you aren't eligible for interest deduction, which means your 40k becomes closer to 35k before your taxes even factor in. I would rather pay annual interest on my loans...
 

Mirror Form

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johankriek said:
Thats just craziness.. really is!!

you will soon find out what i mean if you dont already..
Yeah, it depends what stage of training he's at though. If he had already finished residency and is just doing a fellowship or superchief year, then it's not so bad. But if he's just starting med school . . . he'll be hating himself.
 

HooahDOc

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Why are you guys talking about attracting more people to medicine? Don't medical schools already fill their seats with plenty of rejects leftover?
 

Vox Animo

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HooahDOc said:
Why are you guys talking about attracting more people to medicine? Don't medical schools already fill their seats with plenty of rejects leftover?

Just because someone gets rejected, does not mean they were competitive, or even capable of succeeding.

Doc salaries are dropping every year and medical debt for 2010 grads will be over triple the average for 2002 grads.

If these trends continue, it won't be cost effective to be a doc for future applicants, and makes other midlevel routes more appealing.

Many qualified people don't pursue medicine because of the long struggle years.

In residency, i think people should be paid 80K. The less paid in salary and the high debt is, the weaker the field will become politically in the future.
 

Llenroc

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The hospitals make $$$, $$$, and then some more $$$ off the labor of their residents, who have maybe 80% of the productivity of an attending physician (since they also have to be taught during the day) but get paid about 20% of the money.

This is especially true of say surgery residents who are doing multiple $5,000 procedures each day. A day's pay however, becomes a month's pay.

EDIT: Also when you look at health costs overall for society, physicians fees are something like 7% of the total - an almost paltry amount. And most of that is probably taken by physicians who are practicing medicine (as opposed to those in training). Raising resident's salaries is not going to break anyone's bank.
 

HooahDOc

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I'll go for increased resident salaries. As a HPSP student, I will be making around $70k-$80k a year as a resident. It was very shocking to learn that civilian residents make $45k or less.

I do not think, however, they should break $100k as PGY2 as someone above suggested. That's a heck of a raise.
 

f_w

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The interns/residents salaries are 40-50k not because the federal goverment tells the hospitals to set it at that rate. They are at that level because the hospitals don't have to compete for residents and quietly agreed to keep it at that level. Residents just show up after the match, no need to negotiate salaries. When a group of residents tried to challenge that system, the hospital interests (also known as NRMP) ran to congress to immunize themselves from any legal challenge. Hospitals get anywhere from 80k-140k per resident FTE per year. The more of that cake they can keep to themselves (in addition to the value of your work), the more they can spend on decking out the boardroom or adding a new administrative wing to the building.

I think it would be worthwhile to look at the incomes of NPs and PAs to find a 'fair' comparison. Their salaries are set by the market. Hospitals don't pay PAs the kind of money they get out of the goodness of their hearts, they pay because the labor market for PAs requires this level of incentive. If you had paid me at the hourly rate our PAs used to get, I would have been fine with that.

Btw. You don't completely loose the student interest deduction if you make 65k. It just starts to scale back at that level until it goes to zilch at something like 113k.
 

Tori's dad

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One of the men I admire most in my life, Russel M. Nelson, was paid 15 dollars a month in his residency (circa 1950). Honestly, I'll be glad with 40k.