Amorphisgirl

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What's a "gunner"? I'm not in med school yet, so I've no clue...Thanks.
 

tangents

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someone who is that person always "gunning" to look good, get there first, do the best job, be the best, most hardcore...all of this usually at all costs-meaning not caring about toes that might be stepped on. or at least that is what i think it means. i think it came from the book "house of god." not sure though.
 

omarsaleh66

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gunner is somebody who is a leader, somebody who isnt afraid to break the rules, a real bad boy, gunners pretty much get all the chicks.

Anytime u wanna hear about gunners, u need to listen to that Destinys Child song "I need a soldier" That should give u a good idea about gunners.
 

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omarsaleh66 said:
gunner is somebody who is a leader, somebody who isnt afraid to break the rules, a real bad boy, gunners pretty much get all the chicks.

Anytime u wanna hear about gunners, u need to listen to that Destinys Child song "I need a soldier" That should give u a good idea about gunners.
My man Omar says it like it is :laugh: :thumbup:
 

Anandimide

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Let me put it this way, because I deal with gunners everyday:

a gunner is someone of the mentality that 2nd place is not good enough. They strive to study more, study harder, and do things better than everyone else regardless of what it is. There are a couple of forms:

1) The covert gunner--someone who when talking with classmates, lies about how much they study by saying things like "yeah I looked at that lecture once for about ten minutes last night" when in reality they studied it for 4 hours and looked up things online about it.
2) The overt gunner--they don't give a crap that you know they're a gunner because they study in the library 14 hr/day with their crap strewn all about
3) The social gunner--a person that actually hangs out with others, goes to functions and parties and is actually pretty cool socially, but when not doing that, they are cranking big time.
4) The not-so-nice gunner--a person that will stop at nothing to be the best even at someone elses expense--ie checking out the needed book/journal from the library and keeping it regardless of late fees, not offering to help anyone, will come into anatomy lab late at night and learn things that they don't share with the group normally, etc. Thankfully these people are rare.

Hope this helps clear it up.


Amorphisgirl said:
What's a "gunner"? I'm not in med school yet, so I've no clue...Thanks.
 

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Now, here's a question. If you're a grade 2+ gunner (overt), and you have your stuff all strewn about in the library 24/7, and you pull off only average-but-passing grades, are you still a gunner?

i.e., is the gunning behavior necessary and sufficient for this classification, or is success necessary as well?

I am planning to live in the library, as I am fairly sure I will need to do so in order to pass. ;)
 

Anandimide

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By definition you are still a gunner but you fall into the sad category of "Gunner Without Results"


rpkall said:
Now, here's a question. If you're a grade 2+ gunner (overt), and you have your stuff all strewn about in the library 24/7, and you pull off only average-but-passing grades, are you still a gunner?

i.e., is the gunning behavior necessary and sufficient for this classification, or is success necessary as well?

I am planning to live in the library, as I am fairly sure I will need to do so in order to pass. ;)
 

ice_23

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rpkall said:
Now, here's a question. If you're a grade 2+ gunner (overt), and you have your stuff all strewn about in the library 24/7, and you pull off only average-but-passing grades, are you still a gunner?

i.e., is the gunning behavior necessary and sufficient for this classification, or is success necessary as well?

I am planning to live in the library, as I am fairly sure I will need to do so in order to pass. ;)
No, that's not a gunner. That's just someone who works hard to pass. You need to succeed to be a gunner. ;)

-Ice
 

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If you can't spot the gunner within the first 10 minutes of sitting down in class, you are the gunner.
 

gary5

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Definitely get used to med students lying about how "little" they study. I don't know where it comes from, but the lying is pervasive. Just assume that people are studying all the time. If someone says that they never study and you ask them what they did last night, they'll say, "I spent 5 hours reading anatomy, but that's not studying, that's just reading."

Maybe they don't want to look stupid. I'm amazed at how few people answer questions in med school. Everyone's smart but people are afraid to be wrong.

There is variation, though. I'm surprised at how uneven the playing field is. Many students have already taken all the 1st year classes, so it's easy for them. Other have Masters degree in biochemistry, physiology, etc. It's a cake walk for them also. Welcome to life. It's not fair. Obviously, I don't have the Masters in biochemistry. :D
 

gary5

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Oh ya, I forgot to mention....the guy who's doing best in my class studies literally every minute he's not in class. And he doesn't do social events. So if you want all the honors, expect to be like him.
 

docmemi

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my whole f'in class is secretly gunners. they all lie about not studying. they all put on a face of partying when in reality they all study their tails off. i hate them lieing. they also all lie about not wanting to do surgery, but they all (almost all) have some interest in it...but they will put it down and make fun of others calling them gunners for wanting to go into surgery. thats just an example.

i think YOU ARE ALL GUNNERS SECRETLY AND DONT WANT TO ADMIT IT. I HATE PEOPLE IN MY CLASS PRETENDING LIKE THEY DONT CARE OR DONT STUDY AND MAKE FUN OF OTHERS FOR IT WHEN IN REALITY THEY ARE THEMSELVES JUST LIKE THE OTHER.

and for the record, i know a few people in my class who dont do anything social and just study to get honors. they stress about getting honors while the rest of the class is worrying about passing. how weird. they are so annoying...i think its imperative that they enjoy their lives as ms1's. why study all the damn time? dont go to meetings, dont go out any night of the week or weekend, study EVERY EVERY MINUTE. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF
 

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We have some lunatics in our class that study in a little group and don't share any of their materials and flat out refuse to tutor other students because it doesn't fit their "style". They all do awesome. Then there's the guy with the photographic memory that aces theanatomy practicals (but he's a really nice guy), the people who have multiple courses in phys, histo, biochem, etc. that blaze through everything without having to review it much at all. The dude with 110 average in neuro who didn't want to tutor because he wasn't sure he had a handle on it, etc. It gets really boring. Then, there are people like me who study a lot before exams and fart around the rest of the time - with mixed results. If you want honors, it certainly helps to have taken a bunch of your first year courses before and to study 4+ hours a day.
 

docmemi

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Elysium said:
We have some lunatics in our class that study in a little group and don't share any of their materials and flat out refuse to tutor other students because it doesn't fit their "style". They all do awesome. Then there's the guy with the photographic memory that aces theanatomy practicals (but he's a really nice guy), the people who have multiple courses in phys, histo, biochem, etc. that blaze through everything without having to review it much at all. The dude with 110 average in neuro who didn't want to tutor because he wasn't sure he had a handle on it, etc. It gets really boring. Then, there are people like me who study a lot before exams and fart around the rest of the time - with mixed results. If you want honors, it certainly helps to have taken a bunch of your first year courses before and to study 4+ hours a day.
or study every minute. i know someone who LITERALLY studies every minute of he has. im serious. every minute. and then i know another person who studies much less and does as well as this antisocial guy.
whatever floats your boat man. the endpoint is the same for all of us. we will all be dr's. thats what the beauty of this all is. right, do yall agree that the end, we will all be more or less equal?
 

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And, if your posts per day average is more than 2-3, you are probably NOT a gunner.
 

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docmemi said:
i think its imperative that they enjoy their lives as ms1's. why study all the damn time? dont go to meetings, dont go out any night of the week or weekend, study EVERY EVERY MINUTE. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Take a chill pill. And let people decide whatever they want to do with their lives. You're not any better than them, even if you think that you are...
 
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Amorphisgirl

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gary5 said:
Definitely get used to med students lying about how "little" they study. I don't know where it comes from, but the lying is pervasive. Just assume that people are studying all the time. If someone says that they never study and you ask them what they did last night, they'll say, "I spent 5 hours reading anatomy, but that's not studying, that's just reading."

Maybe they don't want to look stupid. I'm amazed at how few people answer questions in med school. Everyone's smart but people are afraid to be wrong.
Yeah I definitely don't study. :smuggrin: What? What? I'm going to be one of the people who "doesn't study", so if ya got lines for me that I can use when I get to med school send 'em my way. :p Also, did you mean that few people ask questions?
 

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Just curious, so how much or how many hours do you have to study to not be considered a gunner, yet be viewed upon as a student who studies not too little and not too much?
 

docmemi

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Blake said:
Take a chill pill. And let people decide whatever they want to do with their lives. You're not any better than them, even if you think that you are...
i never said i was better yo. i just dont like people lieing about their study habits and calling other people gunners when they are gunners themselves. and i dont like people thinking they are smarter than everyone else cause they study every minute; fact is, some people dont have to study as much and still do as well or sometimes even better.
the fact is that we are all medstudents and so for the most part we all study a lot. you guys just all have to admit it. and like you said, let others be. dont hate.
 

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there were plenty of gunners in my med school and most of them rarely smiled much and they got out of shape, got grey hair and their main social outlet was studying together. sounds awesome huh?

my roommated studied the least of anyone in our class by far but passed and is now a fp resident at his first choice.

i would rather have a physician with good instincts, common sense and an understanding of real life (someone who doesn't find the CAGE questions very useful and answers yes to a few) than someone who can quote me every study but has trouble making eye contact.

Avoid the temptation, study some but spend at least 4 waking hours a day with no thought of medicine and you should be fine.
 

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Ladies and gentlemen, let's see it for what it is. Most everybody in med school is a high achiever. You have to be to get into med school in the first place (even though some may give the impression that they are "laid back" and don't let anything get to them). So when a student sees another student who works harder than him or her then they are quick to label them a "gunner" since they are used to being a hard worker themselves (high achievers usually don't like competition even though they're used to dealing with it). It's a form of ego defense mechanism. It's like when somebody aces the MCAT and when others find out they make assumptions that this person has no social life or when a med student aces his/her preclinical classes and others automatically assume he/she is all book smart but will not be a good clinician. Again all ego defense mechanisms to make themselves feel better.

Sure it can get out of hand when a "gunner" acts in the true sense of the word (stealing notes, ripping out pages from books, et cetera). But honestly I think this rarely happens to be a major factor and have not personally seen it myself.

And let's not forget a lot of the notable doctors were (and still may be) what you call "gunners". There are not too many "laid back" Thor Sundts and Michael DeBakeys out there. Medicine needs them.
 

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I have never heard anyone say anything about DeBakey's personality except that he was a pompous ass his whole career. Isn't there a middle ground?
 

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coop27 said:
I have never heard anyone say anything about DeBakey's personality except that he was a pompous ass his whole career.
The point is that medicine is full of "gunners" or whatever the catchphrase of the day is. And a lot of the time these guys and gals make huge achievements in their given fields, and medicine as a whole is better for it despite their personalities.

Isn't there a middle ground?
Of course there is. But the people in the middle usually aren't the ones responsible for the advancement of medicine.

I mean who here wouldn't want DeBakey when he was in his prime to be doing their heart surgery or the surgery of someone they cared about regardless of his personality instead of somebody from the "middle ground".
 

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Isn't it amazing how hypocritical the medical school admissions process is?

They claim they want balanced people who are in medicine to serve the public good.

However, there are some people in our classes that are such arrogant gunners that you wonder how these people got through the screening process until you realize medical schools will always make exceptions if the candidate has high enough stats.

The point is, medical schools will always take the arrogant 4.0 and 36 MCAT student over the nice and balanced student who has a 3.5 and 27 MCAT and so will most residencies and fellowships.

I know the reality; I just wish we didn't have to play this politically correct game of appearing to be social servants when the reality is medical students are selfish and very driven people. Helping others is always extra
 

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Rod Farva said:
If you can't spot the gunner within the first 10 minutes of sitting down in class, you are the gunner.
Most gunners do not know they are gunners. They are under the impression that everyone is supposed to study 14 hours per day and if they don't then they are just lazy.
 
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Amorphisgirl

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Not to beat a dead horse. I just read this:
What’s a gunner? Some people define it as: "An ambitious person focused on getting a great evaluation." I do not think that’s a gunner; I think that describes most of us in medical school. I would define a gunner as "an ambitious person focused on getting a great evaluation… to the detriment of others, including his patients or his peers."
http://medschool.ucsf.edu/curriculum/clinical/guide/section7/part9.asp
Is that the general consensus?
 

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I eat gunners for breakfast.
 

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I think there is a lot of truth to what you said. There is a lot of the "sour grapes" element to those who refer to others as gunners. However, I think you are simplifying matters by saying people only call others gunners because they are insecure. That is just too simple of an explanation. I think the issue is much more complicated than that.

I agree that some people are genuinely that insecure and they will call even the most humble person a gunner for being successful. However, most of us are intelligent enough to distinguish between an arrogant and a humble student regardless of their academic performance. It's usually the arrogant student who is labeled a gunner. Rarely will you see a humble, personable and earnest student being labeled a gunner even if he is #1 in the class.
 

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there's nothing more depraved than a man in the depths of a weekend gunner binge.
except the one who lies out his a$$ about studying ever-the shameful gunner, we all know him, the pathetic churlish tool he-

there's other rare species of gunner simians that don't give me the urge to hack something up in their direction so much-how about the guy who works long hours doing research on something he actually gives a sh!t about, or the volunteer save the world ***** gunner-better folks than the pure grades and studying gunners I think-butwhatever kind of gunner you are, don't be such a dweeb going to lengths to hide it-that is just totally f-ing lame
 

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Dupree said:
I mean who here wouldn't want DeBakey when he was in his prime to be doing their heart surgery or the surgery of someone they cared about regardless of his personality instead of somebody from the "middle ground".
But this is entirely beside the point

I would certainly want DeBakey operating on me, but that doesn't change the fact that he is arrogant

No one is denying gunners are bright, successful and hardworking people. No one is saying they didn't earn their success.

What I am saying is that gunners behave in a manner that is offensive to others regardless of their success.
 

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novacek88 said:
But this is entirely beside the point

I would certainly want DeBakey operating on me, but that doesn't change the fact that he is arrogant

No one is denying gunners are bright, successful and hardworking people. No one is saying they didn't earn their success.

What I am saying is that gunners behave in a manner that is offensive to others regardless of their success.
novacek88, that is the price society sometimes has to "pay" for some people who are real good at what they do. They might not have the best personalities and you wouldn't hang out with them yet they are the ones you want working on you or your loved ones when things go wrong. And not just in medicine. You'd want the best pilot flying the 747 you're on regardless of his personality. They are tolerated because of what they can bring to the table that few others can match. I have no problem with somebody being arrogant as long as they can back it up. In my opinion they have earned the right to be cocky. I know some people will disagree with that but if you can back it up then bring it. I hate to use a sporting analogy but I will because it fits here. The best example I can think of is Mohammed Ali. He was arrogant as they come but he backed it up. And if a cocky med student is acing his classes and is a superstar on the wards well then he's backed it up.
 

ice_23

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Dupree said:
novacek88, that is the price society sometimes has to "pay" for some people who are real good at what they do. They might not have the best personalities and you wouldn't hang out with them yet they are the ones you want working on you or your loved ones when things go wrong. And not just in medicine. You'd want the best pilot flying the 747 you're on regardless of his personality. They are tolerated because of what they can bring to the table that few others can match. I have no problem with somebody being arrogant as long as they can back it up. In my opinion they have earned the right to be cocky. I know some people will disagree with that but if you can back it up then bring it. I hate to use a sporting analogy but I will because it fits here. The best example I can think of is Mohammed Ali. He was arrogant as they come but he backed it up. And if a cocky med student is acing his classes and is a superstar on the wards well then he's backed it up.
Another good sports analogy is the '85 chicago bears recording the superbowl shuffle AFTER losing their first (and only) game of the season to Miami. They then proceeded to demolish teams on their way to winning the superbowl. Good stuff. :)

-Ice

P.S. Oh, and these gunner threads have been discussed ad nauseum. If memory serves me correctly, there were two "define a gunner" threads going on simultaneously about a month or so ago....
 

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Dupree said:
novacek88, that is the price society sometimes has to "pay" for some people who are real good at what they do. They might not have the best personalities and you wouldn't hang out with them yet they are the ones you want working on you or your loved ones when things go wrong. And not just in medicine. You'd want the best pilot flying the 747 you're on regardless of his personality. They are tolerated because of what they can bring to the table that few others can match. I have no problem with somebody being arrogant as long as they can back it up. In my opinion they have earned the right to be cocky. I know some people will disagree with that but if you can back it up then bring it. I hate to use a sporting analogy but I will because it fits here. The best example I can think of is Mohammed Ali. He was arrogant as they come but he backed it up. And if a cocky med student is acing his classes and is a superstar on the wards well then he's backed it up.
The flaw with your argument is the assumption that all successfull people are arrogant. In short, you are generalizing. You mention Muhammed Ali but what about Joe Montana, Hank Aaron and Magic Johnson? What about Bill Gates, the wealthiest person in the world?

Likewise, there are many amazing medical students who are not cocky. Of course you never hear much about these people because cocky people tend to attract more attention than humble ones. It's much easier to remember the cocky student in the class than the quiet and softspoken one.

You may disagree but I don't think anyone has the right to behave in this manner because for every Muhammed Ali, I can show you a Joe Montana or a Jackie Robinson. For every John McEnroe, there is a Pete Sampras.

In my experience, the most talented or #1 people in thier field are the ones who transcend ego. They are above trying to beat others and are genuine artists who seek to excel at their craft because they love what they do.

Did you ever watch Chariots of Fire? I encourage you to watch that film. The most talented runner in that film was the one who didn't care about competition. He genuinely loved to run and no one could beat him. This is why Joe Montana and Tom Brady are so amazing because they don't care what happens. They just play.
 
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Amorphisgirl

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ice_23 said:
P.S. Oh, and these gunner threads have been discussed ad nauseum. If memory serves me correctly, there were two "define a gunner" threads going on simultaneously about a month or so ago....
Ice, Ice, baby:
Originality is overrated ;)
Don't hate...
 
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ice_23 said:
Interesting. I've never been responded to in quasi-verse form...

-Ice
Oh! You must mean the indentation. It just looked nice on the page.
Kiss-kiss! (Just Kidding...I'm just having fun with you, ICE! :thumbup: )
 

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novacek88 said:
The flaw with your argument is the assumption that all successfull people are arrogant. In short, you are generalizing.
novacek88, I never said "all" successful people are arrogant. I specifically said some are.
 

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Sancho said:
there's nothing more depraved than a man in the depths of a weekend gunner binge.
except the one who lies out his a$$ about studying ever-the shameful gunner, we all know him, the pathetic churlish tool he-

there's other rare species of gunner simians that don't give me the urge to hack something up in their direction so much-how about the guy who works long hours doing research on something he actually gives a sh!t about, or the volunteer save the world ***** gunner-better folks than the pure grades and studying gunners I think-butwhatever kind of gunner you are, don't be such a dweeb going to lengths to hide it-that is just totally f-ing lame
Wow, the psychopathology in this post reached out and GRABBED me!!!

P.S. Don't say "dweeb." (It dates you.) :laugh:
 

ice_23

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Amorphisgirl said:
Oh! You must mean the indentation. It just looked nice on the page.
Kiss-kiss! (Just Kidding...I'm just having fun with you, ICE! :thumbup: )
No worries. I like a girl who can write in verse. ;)

-Ice
 

bigfrank

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I think a person on SDN with more than 100+ posts is a certifiable GUNNER..........
 

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bigfrank said:
I think a person on SDN with more than 100+ posts is a certifiable GUNNER..........
But wouldn't more posts = more time on SDN = less actual study time = not a gunner? Does this equation make sense? Maybe all of us on this thread are wannabe gunners b/c real gunners would never have any time for sdn... does this logic work?? :confused:
 

bigfrank

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I'm thinking along the lines of...........

Most people study quite a bit in medical school. Some people take a break to drink, go to a club/coffeehouse/etc., while others go to SDN and get stressed out about how much everyone else claims to be studying and scoring on their boards, and then get pulled in that way. It's like a form of positive reinforcment for studying more and more and more.........

But I could be wrong. It just seems like SDN fosters the "gunner" mentality more than say, watching CSI reruns or vandalizing property!!
 

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Gunner is someone who spends time on an internet message board about medical school while not studying for medical school. Posting and trying to find out good study strategies, books etc.........ammmmm I think its all of us on the board :D .............nahhhhh we are cool like the "FONZ" its the others who are gunners.
 

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I think the person that described a gunner as someone who will stop at NOTHING to get good grades/evals even to the detriment of his peers/patients hit the nail right on the head. Someone who studies 25hrs a day but does so without hurting others and is always willing to help/tutor others is not a gunner.

Like someone else on here said, in the end we will all be the same, the guy who was last in his class will be an MD just like the guy who was first. The difference is, however,that the last guy will probably be in FP in a rural community and the guy that is first will be a neurosurgeon at a major metropolitan academic center.

Not to say that one is better than the other. Some people dream all their lives of being the only doctor in a small town that is able to treat most of the conditions that present to his office. Others dream of doing 20hr surgeries and research. Just so happens that the latter guy needs to get better grades to achieve his dream than the guy who wants FP.

This obviously creates some tension as in "why does that guy have to strive so hard to be #1? We'll all be doctors anyway, relax" It would be nice to if the people that weren't striving for high grades because they didnt need them respected the hard work of people who are striving for them because they do need them. This is not the case.

I my-self want to go into a pretty competative specialty and I want to do it in NYC at an academic center. Obviously my grades need to be high in order to achieve this. Sometimes I think that my like of this particular field is like a curse. I tried to get myself to like FP and working in rural communites and all that but I don't, it's not my cup of tea. Others love it, and I think they are fortunate.

Yes, I do admit to studying a lot and not partying as much as many of my classmates. However I don;t think this makes me a gunner. Anytime someone asks me to explkain something I always help gladly. I don;t go out of my way to make others looks stupid. In fact when another student is being pimped and I know the answer I will often try to give them some kind of inconspicuous hint. I dont believe that me doing well is predicated on someone else doing poorly. Me doing well is predicated only on my hard work and if I want to get a to place in my professional career that makes me happy I accept the fact that I will have to work hard to do it. I don't think that makes me, or anyone else with similar goals and motivations, a gunner.

Just my $.02