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Whats a Pass on Shelfs at your school

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by yl99, May 5, 2007.

  1. yl99

    yl99 New Member

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    Apr 12, 2003
    I was wandering if people would share what a pass is on your shelfs at your schools, at ours its 10% but it seems that a lot of our students fail them,

    I'm a second year but I was wandering what is the reason for students who get past 2 years of med school to fail at such a high rate, What do you need to do to get past these #[email protected]# tests...third year should not be the weedout year thanks
     
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  3. Medical123

    Medical123 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 4, 2001
    I think that at my school, a Pass on the Shelf exam is technically a 70%. However, it generally gets curved a little lower based on the class average. I think that surgery went down to 58% last year and people still failed it.
     
  4. Frijolero

    Frijolero Member 5+ Year Member

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    Oct 19, 2004
    I think there's some confusion b/w straight percent correct and percentile. OP, at my school 10th percentile is also the cutoff for a fail. Straight 70% as a cutoff seems a little high, I imagine it would correlate to 15-25th percentile depending on the clerkship. In any case, at least for us, it's not a "weedout". Usually the people in that bottom decile didn't read much and simply have to repeat the shelf, not the clerkship, with the majority of them passing and graduating on time.
     
  5. elz787

    elz787 Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 5, 2005
    I'm so glad someone started this thread,

    so I'm a second year also and recently I spoke to a third year who was so negative about his experience thus far.....saying stuff like theres no way to pass these shelfs and your life only gets worse,,blah blah blah, ,

    I know one complaint he had which was legit is that here they dont get a week to study like at some schools,

    anyway I usually dont let people get under my skin, but his comments for whatever reason did,I'm assuming people fail these things because they slack off, so I guess the question is how does one not fail a shelf with no study time,
     
  6. jdh71

    jdh71 epiphany at nine thousand six hundred feet Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Dec 14, 2006
    FEMA Camp, USA
    at my schoo,l for most shelf's . . . >7th%ile nationally
     
  7. MSHell

    MSHell Deranged User 10+ Year Member

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    Nov 29, 2004
    Why is that high? (not referring to relation to percentiles). This assures that everyone has a grasp on the material and that if everyone gets >70%, then everyone passes.
     
  8. Frijolero

    Frijolero Member 5+ Year Member

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    Oct 19, 2004
    Depending on the difficulty of the questions, a 70% cutoff is fine. At that level, though, I'm guessing around 15-20% would fail the shelf. Which means either that our training is inadequate, or, more probably, that the cutoff is too high. To the OP, to pass these things you need to read about things you realize you don't know throughout the rotation, which takes maybe 30 minutes a day. Then, a week or two before the shelf, read a good review book for the subject. It usually takes me a few hours a day that last week or two to get through it. I prefer case based books instead of bullet-type like first aid because I can't retain info from that format. I've found case files to be an excellent series for every clerkship I've been on. I've had friends failing clerkships that jumped up to 40's/50's (percentile) when they switched to case files. It's also the only medical book thus far that doesn't bore me to tears to read through.
     
  9. arthrodisiac

    arthrodisiac 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 3, 2007
    <70=fail
    70-84 pass
    85-89 high pass
    90+ honors
     
  10. Frijolero

    Frijolero Member 5+ Year Member

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    Oct 19, 2004
    Wow, that's rough. Any idea what your class breakdown was for grades? You must have literally less than 5% of the class honoring. For the last two shelfs I know that 96th percentile correlates with 86 and 89
     
  11. Blue Frog

    Blue Frog Junior Member 2+ Year Member

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    Jul 8, 2006
    So at our school its either 5 or 10th percentile...possibly variable based on rotation. I've never heard of anyone failing a test, though I'm sure it happens and people just don't advertise the fact. However, I'm not sure if failing the exam = failing the rotation. In general I've heard that to fail a rotation you have to do something like lie or cheat...or just be really pathetic. I could be wrong though...just watch...after saying this i'll fail my next rotation. :laugh:
     
  12. arthrodisiac

    arthrodisiac 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 3, 2007
    apparently before our year, there was grade inflation where like 40% of the class was getting honors. Now, its underinflated, where 5% get honors...and those that get honors almost always do it by the skin of their teeth...like having a 90.03 average. its ridiculous. there needs to be some national conference for curriculum development deans and they need to develop a uniform evaluation method.
     
  13. elz787

    elz787 Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mar 5, 2005
    its good to see that most people get through them, because I was also told by a third year, that he felt they were trying to "weed him out", with the shelfs

    It doesnt make much sense for a school to try to fail people out after 2 years though, I mean even if they fail 10% of the students that would seem like a large number, but of couse I havent gone through yet!
     

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