What's are my chances?

[bhalln4]

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Hey all, Here are my stats. I would love to hear what you have to say -

sGPA - 3.79
oGPA - 3.75
nonscienceGPA - 3.72

BIO 23
GCHEM 21
OCHEM 21
QR 22
RC 23
AA 22
PAT 19

I have 150 shadowing hours at general dentist. I jsut began shadowing an orthodontist and an endodontist. I have 1000s of hours in EC and have a conducted one research project.

I submitted my app to AADSAS last week. They have my money and transcripts.
Oh and I have LORS from three science profs and one from my dentist.

i've applied to columbia, nyu, penn, UOP, michigan, temple, tufts, boston, nova, detroit and maryland.
I am an international student however 🙁

What do you guys think?

 

[Habbas]

your stats look fine, be confident
whats your location?

 

[bhalln4]

Toronto.

 

[MrBeans]

Your DAT scores may be just a little lower than most international applicants. However, overall I think you stand a great chance in getting interviews and matriculating this year. 🙂

 

[RedDevilDDS]

Your DAT scores may be just a little lower than most international applicants. However, overall I think you stand a great chance in getting interviews and matriculating this year. 🙂

This is NOT TRUE. I don't think his DAT score is lower than most international applicants

 

[bhalln4]

*her lol 😛

at RedDevilDDS, thank you for the vote of confidence 🙂
What do you guys know the DAT scores of an international applicant to typically be?
Also, once the next academic update period comes around, my GPAs will be a 3.8. Will that help?
My application hasnt been mailed out yet. I feel like that's gonna hurt me :S

 

[RedDevilDDS]

*her lol 😛

at RedDevilDDS, thank you for the vote of confidence 🙂
What do you guys know the DAT scores of an international applicant to typically be?
Also, once the next academic update period comes around, my GPAs will be a 3.8. Will that help?
My application hasnt been mailed out yet. I feel like that's gonna hurt me :S

Hey bhalln4, your GPA is little higher than mine and DAT is about the same except you have much higher RC than mine.

I'm also international (Canadian) and I have two invites so far... so don't worry. Your application is Not too late.

For academic update period, I don't think it will be that helpful because it is already November...

Anyways, Good Luck and see you at some interviews! 😀

 

[MrBeans]

This is NOT TRUE. I don't think his DAT score is lower than most international applicants

That's why I stated a "little" lower.

Just paging through statistics I've found here and there (and on Predents), it seems like many international applicants have 23-24+ DAT scores.

Quite possibly I'm over extrapolating the data that I've been exposed to. 🙄

Like I said initially, I think the OP still has a great chance! 😉

 

[RedDevilDDS]

That's why I stated a "little" lower.

Just paging through statistics I've found here and there (and on Predents), it seems like many international applicants have 23-24+ DAT scores.

Quite possibly I'm over extrapolating the data that I've been exposed to. 🙄

Like I said initially, I think the OP still has a great chance! 😉

I don't think predents/SDN has good representation of international applicants. There are just too few to calculate the average GPA/DAT.

I agree to your thought. OP has a great chance and I hope I do...😉

 

[bhalln4]

at RedDevilDDS, if I may ask, what schools did you apply to?

 

[CANgnome]

you have a good chance at all of them I am sure!

 

[Habbas]

Toronto.

Same here. you have a strong chance, im not liking all of this competition 😛

 

[shahinc]

You are fine and will get interview from all the schools in your list.

Now the International Student Issue is only matters for the state Schools. I personally spoke to many private schools, USC, Case and ... and they do NOT differentiate between International and US students.

 

[shahinc]

With that GPA,
Don't you have a chance to apply to Western in London and McGill in Montreal ?

 

[RedDevilDDS]

With that GPA,
Don't you have a chance to apply to Western in London and McGill in Montreal ?

Some people just don't like Canadian schools... like myself 😀

 

[shahinc]

Some people just don't like Canadian schools... like myself 😀

I guess so.
It is good to be rich because there is almost 100K difference in tuition in some cases for 4 years.

 

[RedDevilDDS]

I guess so.
It is good to be rich because there is almost 100K difference in tuition in some cases for 4 years.

I don't understand why you just link US dental school = expensive and people applying US d-schools are rich.

I'm NOT rich but I'm still applying to US d-schools and will be applying to Canadian schools as well.

The reason I apply to d-schools in states and really want to go there is to explore the new world, and want to practice in US because US is much much bigger market than Canada.

I will choose US d-schools over Canadian schools if I get accepted to both.

Although one can still practice in US with Canadian DMD/DDS, I believe it will be much harder than American DMD/DDS graduates (need to write extra board exams, very few Canadian d-school alumni..etc).

100k is a lot of money, but not bad if we consider 40 year career as a dentist.

 

[Habbas]

I agree, the market is a bit biggerin the states and at the same time I kind of want to get out of my element, ive been in the same neighbourhood since forever 😛 Also canadian schools are more GPA focused, and mine is pretty mid-range, but i do well on standardized tests.

 

[pinhi]

I guess so.
It is good to be rich because there is almost 100K difference in tuition in some cases for 4 years.

Im not rich either...kind of insulting to say such things....be careful what you say.....i'd say most of us aren't rich and are struggling to pay for all of this.

 

[shahinc]

Im not rich either...kind of insulting to say such things....be careful what you say.....i'd say most of us aren't rich and are struggling to pay for all of this.

Why is that insulting ? I was just curious to know why a person who can probably get into Canadian dental school with such a great marks ( which is a compliment as I think only super smart students can get into the dental schools in Canada), chooses, to spent 100K more in tuition, move to another country and ...

I did not mean it in any insulting way so lets not be too sensitive here.

 

[Habbas]

Why is that insulting ? I was just curious to know why a person who can probably get into Canadian dental school with such a great marks ( which is a compliment as I think only super smart students can get into the dental schools in Canada), chooses, to spent 100K more in tuition, move to another country and ...

I did not mean it in any insulting way so lets not be too sensitive here.

agreed yeah, i think shahinc just meant to say the 100k diff was justifiable and as a canad applying id agree

 

[shahinc]

agreed yeah, i think shahinc just meant to say the 100k diff was justifiable and as a canad applying id agree

That is exactly what I mean and I am sorry if it came out the wrong way. I wish I was as smart as the original poster and had his marks and the chance of getting into McGill or Western or UBC or ...

 

[RedDevilDDS]

Why is that insulting ? I was just curious to know why a person who can probably get into Canadian dental school with such a great marks ( which is a compliment as I think only super smart students can get into the dental schools in Canada), chooses, to spent 100K more in tuition, move to another country and ...

I did not mean it in any insulting way so lets not be too sensitive here.

It's just personal choice. Smart/non-smart doesn't really matter. I don't think only Super smart students can go to Canadian D-schools. There are some people with 70ish average, but best 2 years average of 86 with 19 AA go to Western Ontario.

Some students go to U of T with 18 AA with undergrad gap of 3.0 ish but with grad gpa of 3.9+.

I really don't like when someone judge "Canadian who apply/go to US d-schools is because he/she cannot go to Canadian d-school."

 

[shahinc]

Some students go to U of T with 18 AA with undergrad gap of 3.0 ish but with grad gpa of 3.9+.

Noway Bro.
UofT takes all your years into account when doing the GPA calculation unless you complete a second undergraduate degree. So there is noway, you can just get a master with 3.9 GPA and get in while had a 3.0 GPA.
I looked into it.

As far as Western goes, an 86% might cut it for an Ontario resident but for an Alberta Resident you have to have an average of almost 89% which translate to almost a 4.0 GPA 🙂 ( based on conversation chart of GPA to%ages and ...).

Dental schools in Canada are much more competitive than US.

These are all based on my personal research and talking to every single dental school in Canada ( except for Manitoba and French schools in Quebec) and I could be wrong or misunderstood the information they gave me.

Again, I did not mean to disrespect anyone here from Canada who is going South of the border and it was just an observation.

 

[RedDevilDDS]

Noway Bro.
UofT takes all your years into account when doing the GPA calculation unless you complete a second undergraduate degree. So there is noway, you can just get a master with 3.9 GPA and get in while had a 3.0 GPA.
I looked into it.

As far as Western goes, an 86% might cut it for an Ontario resident but for an Alberta Resident you have to have an average of almost 89% which translate to almost a 4.0 GPA 🙂 ( based on conversation chart of GPA to%ages and ...).

Dental schools in Canada are much more competitive than US.

These are all based on my personal research and talking to every single dental school in Canada ( except for Manitoba and French schools in Quebec) and I could be wrong or misunderstood the information they gave me.

Again, I did not mean to disrespect anyone here from Canada who is going South of the border and it was just an observation.

I understand what you mean. But I have to make some corrections.
U of T DOES DROP your lowest year if it is not your most recent year. Go check their website. My friend applied there so I know.

Western, cutoff for last year was 85, giving 84 waiting list for an interview (best two years). Although majority of studensts who go UWO are from Ontario, I don't think they give preference to Ontario residents.

 

[shahinc]

Thanks Red
I will look into the UofT for sure.

 

[bhalln4]

I think Canadian schools are slightly more narrow minded in the selection process. That is something that really irks me. The emphasis on one's GPA in my opinion is too too high. I wouldnt want a dentist who had a 3.9 GPA in thier undergrad but with no communication skills.
I understand that we will study patient doctor interaction in dental school but if I took the time out during my undergrad and have some pretty bad grades, it was because I wanted to develop those skills my involving myself in my community.

I understand that thats a choice I made and not everyone would agree with it. That is fine.
Also there are much greater oppurtunities in the States past your DMD (ie a specialization). Hence i'd rather be a dentist in the States. Yes, the tuition truly scares me at the moment but there are tons of people who have figured out ways to deal with it (without financial support from their parents) and yet study and practice the profession that they love. I'll do the same.

I think I would have had a shot at my shoice of schools if I had applied early (my GPA hasnt even been calculated yet :S). Hence my apprehension.

 

[bhalln4]

RedDevilDDS - out of curiousity, what is the criteria to drop your loweest year for Uft? I visited their website and called them a while ago and I was under the impression that they only do that for their med applicants.
I suppose you have to have graduated already for them to drop a year correct?

 

[Pat Kelly]

I think Canadian schools are slightly more narrow minded in the selection process. That is something that really irks me. The emphasis on one's GPA in my opinion is too too high. I wouldnt want a dentist who had a 3.9 GPA in thier undergrad but with no communication skills.
I understand that we will study patient doctor interaction in dental school but if I took the time out during my undergrad and have some pretty bad grades, it was because I wanted to develop those skills my involving myself in my community.

Cut the bull. Why would you assume that people who did well in their undergrad has no communication skills? If they didn't have any they wouldn't be able to pass the interview process, which weight a significant amount in all canadian dental schools. Stop trying to justify your "bad grades" so you can develop your social skills.

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

I don't understand why you just link US dental school = expensive and people applying US d-schools are rich.

I'm NOT rich but I'm still applying to US d-schools and will be applying to Canadian schools as well.

The reason I apply to d-schools in states and really want to go there is to explore the new world, and want to practice in US because US is much much bigger market than Canada.

I will choose US d-schools over Canadian schools if I get accepted to both.

Although one can still practice in US with Canadian DMD/DDS, I believe it will be much harder than American DMD/DDS graduates (need to write extra board exams, very few Canadian d-school alumni..etc).

100k is a lot of money, but not bad if we consider 40 year career as a dentist.

It depends a lot on which school but in general, it's definitely more than 100k difference in tuition between a Canadian and a US dental school. Factor in exchange rate too.

 

[RedDevilDDS]

It depends a lot on which school but in general, it's definitely more than 100k difference in tuition between a Canadian and a US dental school. Factor in exchange rate too.

I assume you go Canadian d-school? 😀

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

It's just personal choice. Smart/non-smart doesn't really matter. I don't think only Super smart students can go to Canadian D-schools. There are some people with 70ish average, but best 2 years average of 86 with 19 AA go to Western Ontario.

Some students go to U of T with 18 AA with undergrad gap of 3.0 ish but with grad gpa of 3.9+.

I really don't like when someone judge "Canadian who apply/go to US d-schools is because he/she cannot go to Canadian d-school."

one required almost 86% in best two years this past cycle just to receive an interview. It will take more than that to get in, as average admitted is reaching almost a 90 now.

I don't always judge ppl who apply to US the way you have described because I know some people do have amazing qualities and stats that are good enough to gain admission to a Canadian school. but these people usually get into schools like UPenn, columbia and Harvard 😛. IN GENERAL, it is true that getting into a Canadian school is much harder than getting into a private US dental school and this stereotype will always be there. Heck, I know few guys that got into some schools with GPA as low as 3.2 and that will never be possible in Canada. So I think you just have to deal with it if you are going to US. Of course, people in US don't know that and probably think it's harder to get into a US school so no problem for you there when you practice in US later =) just when talking to your old Canadian friends maybe.

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

I don't understand why you just link US dental school = expensive and people applying US d-schools are rich.

I'm NOT rich but I'm still applying to US d-schools and will be applying to Canadian schools as well.

The reason I apply to d-schools in states and really want to go there is to explore the new world, and want to practice in US because US is much much bigger market than Canada.

I will choose US d-schools over Canadian schools if I get accepted to both.

Although one can still practice in US with Canadian DMD/DDS, I believe it will be much harder than American DMD/DDS graduates (need to write extra board exams, very few Canadian d-school alumni..etc).

100k is a lot of money, but not bad if we consider 40 year career as a dentist.

hmm the market is probably bigger, and I'm sure you will find many more opportunities especially when it comes to specializing. I'm kinda worried about this too, lol I keep hearing you have to be top 10% in my school to get into a specialty and it was already pretty difficult getting in in the first place! maybe i should have went to a US school too? 😕

 

[shahinc]

one required almost 86% in best two years this past cycle just to receive an interview. It will take more than that to get in, as average admitted is reaching almost a 90 now.

NoBodyCanStopMe

Lets not forget that for student that comes from Alberta for example, an A is only considered 88 or 89 % so to make the 90% you have to have few A+ in your course load.

Now, I don't know what is A+ in western or UofT or UofS but in Alberta, It is almost always 95% and up.

It is a tough task to manage to get these marks while you HAVE to HAVE a full load ( 5 course each semester) to qualify.

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

Noway Bro.
UofT takes all your years into account when doing the GPA calculation unless you complete a second undergraduate degree. So there is noway, you can just get a master with 3.9 GPA and get in while had a 3.0 GPA.
I looked into it.

As far as Western goes, an 86% might cut it for an Ontario resident but for an Alberta Resident you have to have an average of almost 89% which translate to almost a 4.0 GPA 🙂 ( based on conversation chart of GPA to%ages and ...).

Dental schools in Canada are much more competitive than US.

These are all based on my personal research and talking to every single dental school in Canada ( except for Manitoba and French schools in Quebec) and I could be wrong or misunderstood the information they gave me.

Again, I did not mean to disrespect anyone here from Canada who is going South of the border and it was just an observation.

hmm slightly misinformed there shahinc!
UofT does drop 1 year provided it's not the most recent. But I did hear getting a masters helps a lot
UWO does not give any preferences according to your residential status. UofT does reserve 90% of their seats to Ontario residents but I noticed it really doesn't matter for Ontario because most applicants were from Ontario anyway!

ok whatever, you will get into a US school anyways 🙂

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

NoBodyCanStopMe

Lets not forget that for student that comes from Alberta for example, an A is only considered 88 or 89 % so to make the 90% you have to have few A+ in your course load.

Now, I don't know what is A+ in western or UofT or UofS but in Alberta, It is almost always 95% and up.

It is a tough task to manage to get these marks while you HAVE to HAVE a full load ( 5 course each semester) to qualify.

hmm, is that how it works for you guys?
At my school, we receive grades in % so there was no need to convert anything...if you had 88% overall avg, that was it! used that % for UWO...

I thought in most schools A = 80+ and not many had a separate A+ designation.

 

[shahinc]

hmm, is that how it works for you guys?
At my school, we receive grades in % so there was no need to convert anything...if you had 88% overall avg, that was it! used that % for UWO...

I thought in most schools A = 80+ and not many had a separate A+ designation.

That is how it works in Alberta. 87 to 95% is A and usually 95% and higher is A+ 🙂 So getting an A+ means that you are almost perfect in anyway possible.

It makes it very difficult for us to get into Western or UofS based on this conversion.

 

[yappy]

It is really odd to me that we accept international students at all into our professional / grad schools. It isnt like there is a lack of applicants, talent, or need for the product in the US.

 

[RedDevilDDS]

one required almost 86% in best two years this past cycle just to receive an interview. It will take more than that to get in, as average admitted is reaching almost a 90 now.

I don't always judge ppl who apply to US the way you have described because I know some people do have amazing qualities and stats that are good enough to gain admission to a Canadian school. but these people usually get into schools like UPenn, columbia and Harvard 😛. IN GENERAL, it is true that getting into a Canadian school is much harder than getting into a private US dental school and this stereotype will always be there. Heck, I know few guys that got into some schools with GPA as low as 3.2 and that will never be possible in Canada. So I think you just have to deal with it if you are going to US. Of course, people in US don't know that and probably think it's harder to get into a US school so no problem for you there when you practice in US later =) just when talking to your old Canadian friends maybe.

That's Not always true. I know someone who was accepted to U of T and Western but went to states (to a famous state dental school, non ivy). Although UWO best 2 years average is 89%, there are also many students who's best 2 years is below that, sitting around 86-88%.

I personally have over 89% best two years. I just have a bad second year (really bad) so I do have a shot for U of T and Western. But, I will NOT apply to Western because I been to London and I really didn't like the school and the city. This is just my personal taste so don't be upset.

Don't think that all high stat Canadian students want to go U of T/ Western or any other Canadian d-school. I've seen a lot of Canadians, especially who are born in Asian countries want to go to d-schools in States not in Canada.

And I do know a person with 3.2 gpa (undergrad gpa, but he did grad school) who is in U of T dent now and I also know 3.2 gpa who goes NYU.

 

[RedDevilDDS]

It is really odd to me that we accept international students at all into our professional / grad schools. It isnt like there is a lack of applicants, talent, or need for the product in the US.

Canadian d-schools/med schools accept international students too. There are quite a few Americans at McGill and U of T dent/med. So why not US?

 

[RedDevilDDS]

one required almost 86% in best two years this past cycle just to receive an interview. It will take more than that to get in, as average admitted is reaching almost a 90 now.

I don't always judge ppl who apply to US the way you have described because I know some people do have amazing qualities and stats that are good enough to gain admission to a Canadian school. but these people usually get into schools like UPenn, columbia and Harvard 😛. IN GENERAL, it is true that getting into a Canadian school is much harder than getting into a private US dental school and this stereotype will always be there. Heck, I know few guys that got into some schools with GPA as low as 3.2 and that will never be possible in Canada. So I think you just have to deal with it if you are going to US. Of course, people in US don't know that and probably think it's harder to get into a US school so no problem for you there when you practice in US later =) just when talking to your old Canadian friends maybe.

Yes, I agree. No doubt on this. But Canadian schools give chance to people who did well on 2-3 years but U.S. schools consider whole undergrad years so in some cases, U.S. schools might be even harder. Also, Canadian d-schools care Less about DAT. So people with high GPA and about 18-20 DAT will have a best shot at Canadian d-schools.

Think about Quebec d-schools with average DAT of 14 lol 😀 I thought it was ridiculous. I don't want my dentist to be the one who scored 14 on his/her DAT 😱

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

It is really odd to me that we accept international students at all into our professional / grad schools. It isnt like there is a lack of applicants, talent, or need for the product in the US.

hmm I think it has to do w/ the fact that a lot of schools in US are private. Of course the ones that are funded largely by the government don't really accept too many internationals.

 

[NobodyCanStopMe]

That's Not always true. I know someone who was accepted to U of T and Western but went to states (to a famous state dental school, non ivy). Although UWO best 2 years average is 89%, there are also many students who's best 2 years is below that, sitting around 86-88%.

I personally have over 89% best two years. I just have a bad second year (really bad) so I do have a shot for U of T and Western. But, I will NOT apply to Western because I been to London and I really didn't like the school and the city. This is just my personal taste so don't be upset.

Don't think that all high stat Canadian students want to go U of T/ Western or any other Canadian d-school. I've seen a lot of Canadians, especially who are born in Asian countries want to go to d-schools in States not in Canada.

And I do know a person with 3.2 gpa (undergrad gpa, but he did grad school) who is in U of T dent now and I also know 3.2 gpa who goes NYU.

of course, since 89 is only an average, some will be below, and some will be above. and I know not everyone wants to go to a canadian school, even if they can, and I guess you are an exception 🙂 but you are still one of the fewer ones that make the choice and I think you will agree, hence the stereotype. I know US has some great schools and great cities that obviously beat london ON any day 😛 but in the end I think a lot of people just choose to stay in Canada because of the cost issue. This is once again, personal reasons and MOST people do consider cost as one of the most important reasons for choosing their d school so. To be honest though, if US schools were as cheap as the canadian ones, I probably would have went to a US school. but the reality is, that's not true and I just didn't think it was worth it for ME. I guess it is for you though! so good luck and hope you get in! maybe it's a GOOD thing that they are far more expensive because it keeps the competition a bit lower don't you think? haha =)

 

[RedDevilDDS]

of course, since 89 is only an average, some will be below, and some will be above. and I know not everyone wants to go to a canadian school, even if they can, and I guess you are an exception 🙂 but you are still one of the fewer ones that make the choice and I think you will agree, hence the stereotype. I know US has some great schools and great cities that obviously beat london ON any day 😛 but in the end I think a lot of people just choose to stay in Canada because of the cost issue. This is once again, personal reasons and MOST people do consider cost as one of the most important reasons for choosing their d school so. To be honest though, if US schools were as cheap as the canadian ones, I probably would have went to a US school. but the reality is, that's not true and I just didn't think it was worth it for ME. I guess it is for you though! so good luck and hope you get in! maybe it's a GOOD thing that they are far more expensive because it keeps the competition a bit lower don't you think? haha =)

Yes I agree. Cost is one of the major concerns for every student who are applying to d-schools. UWO dental school is an awesome school. No doubt on that. May be because my first impression was really bad about the city(London) and that's why I think I don't like Western. But again, UWO d-schools is an awesome school and cheap compare to UBC 🙁

I think the main reason I'm applying to states is because UBC dentistry is just too expensive (about 60K) as a Canadian d-school and I see no merit from UBC (I'm BC resident).