Whats going on here?

[FutureDoc4]

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I gotta say, I followed this forum pretty closely last year.

Last year the "high" scorers were 250-265. If anyone claimed >270, people basically "attacked" them to prove it or shut up (as people should, because its an internet forum and you cannot believe everything you read).

This year, I am seeing MULTIPLE people claim 260-275 scores.... do we think this has to do with the new exam? People just 'accepting' what others say?

I saw someone claim that 270+ is def "attainable" for many.... my reaction was....that has got to be a little outrageous of a claim:

We all know that this exam is not perfectly normally distributed, but assuming so for a minute:

225 average witha STD 20, a 270+ score puts you at the top 2.5% who take this exam (remember there are many world wide who also take this exam), so you are not in the 2.5% of the "US grads", you are at the "top" 2.5% of those that take this exam world wide.

I am going to remind everyone this is an internet forum. We have people that lie here all the time. Take everything with a "grain of salt".

 

[kryptik]

we are learning from past takers and perfecting the art

also the fact that a ton of scores were released on July 14 makes it seem there are a lot of very high scores, normally those scores will be even spread

 

[PokerDoc]

we are an elite squad known as the special test takers unit..

 

[kryptik]

we are an elite squad known as the special test takers unit..

dun!...dun! law and order lol

 

[naus]

we are learning from past takers and perfecting the art

That doesn't make sense. It's a standardized test. 270 should still represent the top 2.5% of test takers. I know SDN is "elite" and all, but it's bordering incredible now. Especially since more and more people are now familiar with SDN, you'd think its exclusivity would have only gone down, not up.

Me thinks a few of the people who have been heavily invested in Step 1 prepping on the forums here might be embellishing their scores by 10 pts or so.

I was looking at 2009's matching characteristics, out of 744 ortho applicants, only 31 had a score of 260 or higher. And that's a competitive specialty. For IM it was out of 2794 US applicants, 58 had a 260 or higher. Something smells fishy.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

 

[xanthomondo]

I gotta say, I followed this forum pretty closely last year.

Last year the "high" scorers were 250-265. If anyone claimed >270, people basically "attacked" them to prove it or shut up (as people should, because its an internet forum and you cannot believe everything you read).

This year, I am seeing MULTIPLE people claim 260-275 scores.... do we think this has to do with the new exam? People just 'accepting' what others say?

I saw someone claim that 270+ is def "attainable" for many.... my reaction was....that has got to be a little outrageous of a claim:

We all know that this exam is not perfectly normally distributed, but assuming so for a minute:

225 average witha STD 20, a 270+ score puts you at the top 2.5% who take this exam (remember there are many world wide who also take this exam), so you are not in the 2.5% of the "US grads", you are at the "top" 2.5% of those that take this exam world wide.

I am going to remind everyone this is an internet forum. We have people that lie here all the time. Take everything with a "grain of salt".

It says specifically on the score report that "For recent administrations, the mean and standard deviation for first-time examinees from US and Canadian medical schools are approximately 221 and 24, respectively...."

 

[mTOR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection

 

[username456789]

That doesn't make sense. It's a standardized test. 270 should still represent the top 2.5% of test takers. I know SDN is "elite" and all, but it's bordering incredible now. Especially since more and more people are now familiar with SDN, you'd think its exclusivity would have only gone down, not up.

Me thinks a few of the people who have been heavily invested in Step 1 prepping on the forums here might be embellishing their scores by 10 pts or so.

I was looking at 2009's matching characteristics, out of 744 ortho applicants, only 31 had a score of 260 or higher. And that's a competitive specialty. For IM it was out of 2794 US applicants, 58 had a 260 or higher. Something smells fishy.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

What's confusing you? You cite one pretty competitive specialty and one less so which still yields around 90 scores at or over 260, then wonder how there can be a large handful of 260s on here?

I guess I don't understand why you don't understand.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

That doesn't make sense. It's a standardized test. 270 should still represent the top 2.5% of test takers. I know SDN is "elite" and all, but it's bordering incredible now. Especially since more and more people are now familiar with SDN, you'd think its exclusivity would have only gone down, not up.

Me thinks a few of the people who have been heavily invested in Step 1 prepping on the forums here might be embellishing their scores by 10 pts or so.

I was looking at 2009's matching characteristics, out of 744 ortho applicants, only 31 had a score of 260 or higher. And that's a competitive specialty. For IM it was out of 2794 US applicants, 58 had a 260 or higher. Something smells fishy.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf

I don't think it seems unreasonable for several reasons:

- Competition for competitive residencies is getting tougher than ever, and people are digging in and studying harder for the boards.

- More people are taking the USMLE than ever before (esp. osteopathic students/ IMGs trying to score US residencies), which also helps pump up the overall level of competitiveness.

- People who are motivated enough to go looking for test tips/tricks on a site like SDN are also more likely to do well on the test (i.e. "self-selection", as somebody else already pointed out).

Keep in mind that rising competitiveness has been observed in many different arenas of medicine due to the increasing numbers of competitive Millenials that are vying for med school seats/residency slots. Wasn't the national MCAT average as low as 25 for much of the 1990s? I was told that average was 27 when I took the MCAT in 2008 and some have stated that it's closer to 29 by now.

 

[naus]

Keep in mind that rising competitiveness has been observed in many different arenas of medicine due to the increasing numbers of competitive Millenials that are vying for med school seats/residency slots. Wasn't the national MCAT average as low as 25 for much of the 1990s? I was told that average was 27 when I took the MCAT in 2008 and some have stated that it's closer to 29 by now.

The Step 1 average is still 221, so it's pretty irrelevant. Part of the reason why MCAT average has gone up is that you can retake it and it's offered on more dates, so if you feel like you're not ready you aren't forced to take it.

 

[naus]

What's confusing you? You cite one pretty competitive specialty and one less so which still yields around 90 scores at or over 260, then wonder how there can be a large handful of 260s on here?

I guess I don't understand why you don't understand.

Because there's like four dozen people with 260s+ on SDN alone from one report date out of the thousands who took it. 230s are perfectly solid scores worthy of commendation and a congrats, but I see only a smattering of 230s.

Usually you still get a good mix of people with average to low scores on these boards. It's possible this year the influx of 260ers have all shamed the lower scorers into silence. It's also possible some of the 260ers just embellished their scores. Maybe they've been very active on SDN describing their Step 1 studying methods with many followers and did not want to destroy the persona, maybe some got a lower actual score but decided to post what their average practice scores were ("what they should have gotten")...

Why is it so difficult to believe that at least some of those scores are BS? It's not like SDNers are all angels and incapable of lying. There are many people who draw satisfaction on an exaggerated Internet persona.

 

[Nooblet]

so how many 260+ ppl are there every year? i am lazy to research

 

[FranklinBluthMD]

Just like with everything - it is a combo of all things and you don't know which came first - I think I see it as:

Due to the mass release, there are just a larger # of fresh awesome scores (>260) so it seems like a lot more are posting right now than in past years.

With this natural, real increase, people who maybe got a 245 or a 255 even come to post thinking they destroyed the exam and they are going to be a top score on the message board and then see a legit 260 or 265 or whatever it is and panic and feel self conscious and still want their moment and add a bonus 10 points to make themselves feel better/own the internetz.

And finally, because the only people posting on this board are pretty gung ho students and test takers, you are naturally selecting for more competitive and more competent students - so the scores are higher, the egos are higher, and the exaggerations are bigger.

Put them all together, you get an avg grade of 248 or something ridiculous from the posted score thus far. Now if I wasn't kissing the paper that said PASS - 250 - 99 every 5 minutes because I'm simultaneously happy/proud/surprised/afraid someone is going to take it form me, I'd give myself the internet bump and be like "yea nothing special 265 bros". But who needs to do that right?

 

[psychforme]

Are you even intelligent enough to be a doctor if you score less than 259?

 

[username456789]

Because there's like four dozen people with 260s+ on SDN alone from one report date out of the thousands who took it. 230s are perfectly solid scores worthy of commendation for a good job well done, but I see only a smattering of 230s.

Usually you still get a good mix of people with average to low scores on these boards. It's possible this year the influx of 260ers have all shamed the lower scorers into silence. It's also possible some of the 260ers just embellished their scores. Maybe they've been very active on SDN describing their Step 1 studying methods with many followers and did not want to destroy the persona, maybe some got a lower actual score but decided to post what their average practice scores were ("what they should have gotten")...

Why is it so difficult to believe that at least some of those scores are BS? It's not like SDNers are all angels and incapable of lying. Med students are after all the descendants of premeds.

Yes, you already said that.

You do realize that this "one report date" essentially encompasses the vast majority of all US Medical Studens who will take this exam this year, yes? May 15th to the end of June is prime Step I season.

Do I think it's possible a couple people may have lied on here? Sure. Do I think we're being overrun by a big wave of dishonest gunners? Nah.

The only other people I know personally in real life who scored 250 or above frequent this site (only one of them posts regularly). Of course it's just one example of second hand information, but it illustrates for me the bigger idea which everyone knows but several people actively reject anyway: the people who are anal enough to obsess over shooting for 260 on Step I are the same people who visit a website devoted to nerds opining on a daily basis about said exam. Furthermore, the ones who actually do hit their goals are the ones that are more likely to post about it (I had already told myself that if I bombed the exam, I probably wouldn't return here for a loooong time).

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The Step 1 average is still 221, so it's pretty irrelevant. Part of the reason why MCAT average has gone up is that you can retake it and it's offered on more dates, so if you feel like you're not ready you aren't forced to take it.

Yes, but hasn't the Step 1 average also risen dramatically over the last 5 years or so?

 

[naus]

Yes, but hasn't the Step 1 average also risen dramatically over the last 5 years or so?

In 2004, the mean was 217, std deviation 23

Not that dramatic

 

[jmayer]

somebody posted an email from the NBME to their school administrators in the july 14 thread i believe that said ~13000 scores were going to be released that day.

so assuming a normal distribution (with all the scaling that they do), a 250+ includes 11% of test takers = 1430 test takers

why is it so hard to believe that 50-100 of those students post on SDN?

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

somebody posted an email from the NBME to their school administrators in the july 14 thread i believe that said ~13000 scores were going to be released that day.

so assuming a normal distribution (with all the scaling that they do), a 250+ includes 11% of test takers = 1430 test takers

why is it so hard to believe that 50-100 of those students post on SDN?

Exactly....but honestly who cares. Ultimately who gives a rat ass what someone else got (and whether or not they chose to lie about it on an internet forum). In the end, the only thing that matters is your score.

 

[twofer]

As a someone who came here for advice on how to study, used that advice, and got a 266, I'm not that surprised at how many people are doing similarly well. I got standard sdn advice to use the Taus method, Goljan, Goljan audio, UWorld, FA as early, hard, and as many times as possible. Hallelujah it works. I was truly shocked to get +260, was expecting (while still trying to temper expectations) a 255 like last 2 nmbe's. But, I can honestly say, if I'd dropped to something I was disappointed or even lukewarm about, I don't think I'd be screaming it from the rooftops/posting it all over sdn.

 

[Dirt]

so how many 260+ ppl are there every year? i am lazy to research

If you look at the charting outcomes data from 2009 there were 359 people who scored 260+, and that data accounts for all test takers (US, Canada, osteopaths and abroad) totaling 29,888. That breaks down to 1.2%. Even if you look at just US seniors, there were 285 260+ scorers out of 15,638 for 1.8%.

I find it funny that people are defending other people's score reports. Sure it could be possible that there are 4 270+ scorers on here but let's not forget that this is the internet. Everyone lies on the internet about everything. Again, just look at the charting outcomes if you want accurate data about scores.

Oh and http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

 

[ent ent]

If you look at the charting outcomes data from 2009 there were 359 people who scored 260+, and that data accounts for all test takers (US, Canada, osteopaths and abroad) totaling 29,888. That breaks down to 1.2%.]

maybe reading the forums is so helpful, that many of the 260+ people are on SDN. that wouldn't surprise me at all. i mean, if i was aiming to get a 260+, i would definitely look at as many resources as possible, and this forum is such a great resource.

and even if only a fourth of the ~350 people who got above 260 are on SDN that's still like ~80 people.

 

[womp]

If you look at the charting outcomes data from 2009 there were 359 people who scored 260+, and that data accounts for all test takers (US, Canada, osteopaths and abroad) totaling 29,888. That breaks down to 1.2%. Even if you look at just US seniors, there were 285 260+ scorers out of 15,638 for 1.8%.

I find it funny that people are defending other people's score reports. Sure it could be possible that there are 4 270+ scorers on here but let's not forget that this is the internet. Everyone lies on the internet about everything. Again, just look at the charting outcomes if you want accurate data about scores.

Oh and http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

Yup. The Step 1 is not normally distributed, it's skewed towards the failing end. There are actually fewer 260+'s than one would presume from a normal distribution. It's about 2 to 4 people per US allopathic med school class.

 

[HappyG0Lucky]

What bugs me the most about SDN scores is seeing people who scored in the 230s or even the 220's acting all contrite about their score. There is nothing wrong with a score in the 220's - the average was 221 for heaven's sake! And increasing your score on an anonymous board to make yourself feel good is too stupid even for words.

 

[username456789]

What bugs me the most about SDN scores is seeing people who scored in the 230s or even the 220's acting all contrite about their score. There is nothing wrong with a score in the 220's - the average was 221 for heaven's sake! And increasing your score on an anonymous board to make yourself feel good is too stupid even for words.

Which is why, despite my disdain for the idiocy of society, I really don't think there are that many exaggerations on here.

 

[Mr hawkings]

5 years ago, this guy posted on here that he scored a 261 and they jumped on him so bad that he had to scan his score report and post it on SDN to prove it. Then he got laughed at for being a douche.
I think he ended up going into anesthesiology.
So yes, i have also been very suprised at the number of really high scores on here. maybe the SDN population was much lower back then but it seems like there are quite a few high scores here. I mean people are asking if its posible to match into IM with scores that are above the national average, for goodness sake.

 

[2012mdc]

What bugs me the most about SDN scores is seeing people who scored in the 230s or even the 220's acting all contrite about their score. There is nothing wrong with a score in the 220's - the average was 221 for heaven's sake! And increasing your score on an anonymous board to make yourself feel good is too stupid even for words.

There is nothing wrong with those scores but there is also nothing wrong with being upset with getting a score lower than you wanted/expected from practice tests, work put in, etc. Also, med students are used to being on top so when one works their butt off and ends up "average" it can be a little jarring. Scores just came out two days ago, people will eventually accept their score and until they do SDN is a good place to vent b/c others will understand.

 

[vicinihil]

I wonder if someone can count up how many scores people are seeing >260. I doubt we even have 50 people on this forum reporting a score >260 this year. I think it seems like a lot because the scores stick out. Also people who score 230s may be shy and not want to share the score and people with >260 more or less are really proud of what they've accomplished and want to share.

 

[littlealex]

1) are there people that exaggerate? Yes
2) are most people exaggerating? No

The fact of the matter is that PLENTY of people score 260+ or 270+. 2% is a lot of people, and given the self selection, that is probably at least 10% of SDN population. I wouldn't be surprised if we can gather 100 people with 260+ on this forum rather easily.

 

[DRJJ1]

1) are there people that exaggerate? Yes
2) are most people exaggerating? No

The fact of the matter is that PLENTY of people score 260+ or 270+. 2% is a lot of people, and given the self selection, that is probably at least 10% of SDN population. I wouldn't be surprised if we can gather 100 people with 260+ on this forum rather easily.

I really would doubt it,,,lets not fall into that trap here ok? sheesh..yea like many high scorers all come here to post their 270 s yeaaa right most 270s don t hang on the net posting here im sure they have much better things to do😴😴😴😴

 

[DocDanny]

Some people are probably lying or exaggerating a little.

There is no logical reason why this forum would attract so many with scores of 260+ and so few from 190-230. Especially with the site being as popular as it is now.

Wasn't someone CAUGHT in a lie, when they said their score was a 99 when it was below a 230?

EDIT- Here are all the scores from the July 14 Release Thread

222- jackets5
222- parrotyellow
251- robotcat
232- hallucinated
254- superslacker
250- MCATMAN45
248- sirrileydog
251- Dedikated2liftn
238- missmaymd
232- dav86
248- RenegadeSynapse
251- psych
247- DivCurlZero
257- xx216xx
245- GreenMudPhud
232- DrTacoElf
260- 2112mdc
248- BC848
250- badasshairday
245- C6789
249- azntxn
248- ozzidoc
257- SpartanBlueJay2
253- Whatayear
255- mongrel
240- metalmd06
261- Raider11
274- princess peach
235- frikarika
260- killinsound
255- GuyWhoDoesStuff
246- _T_
260- Nooblet
252- Ookluh
266- Domenech
227- greenblackplaid
228- MilkmanAl
254- midn
230- buckeye12
230- jakcat
248- Bonesaw45
198- jstuds_66
238- plauto
247- Real Name
242- SurgMD
250- FranklinBluthMD
247-Tenacity
251-slowbutsteady
218- laurenfiro
232- VoiceofReason
261- DdrumbumD
231- Blondnuttyboy
244- kissmyasthma99
259- WellWornLad
252- ThePursuit
211- step2

 

[ent ent]

Some people are probably lying or exaggerating a little.

There is no logical reason why this forum would attract so many with scores of 260+ and so few from 190-230. Especially with the site being as popular as it is now.

yeah but still, if someone gets a low score, why would they post it, especially if they were expecting higher?

i mean after seeing everyone post such high scores i would def be intimidated to post my low score. it makes sense for those who scored in their projected range to post what they got.


198- jstuds_66
211- step2
218- laurenfiro
222- jackets5
222- parrotyellow
227- greenblackplaid
228- MilkmanAl
230- buckeye12
230- jakcat
231- Blondnuttyboy
232- hallucinated
232- dav86
232- DrTacoElf
232- VoiceofReason
235- frikarika
238- missmaymd
238- plauto
240- metalmd06
242- SurgMD
244- kissmyasthma99
245- GreenMudPhud
245- C6789
246- _T_
247- DivCurlZero
247- Real Name
247-Tenacity
248- sirrileydog
248- RenegadeSynapse
248- BC848
248- ozzidoc
248- Bonesaw45
249- azntxn
250- MCATMAN45
250- badasshairday
250- FranklinBluthMD
251- robotcat
251- Dedikated2liftn
251- psych
251-slowbutsteady
252- Ookluh
252- ThePursuit
253- Whatayear
254- superslacker
254- midn
255- mongrel
255- GuyWhoDoesStuff
257- xx216xx
257- SpartanBlueJay2
259- WellWornLad
260- killinsound
260- Nooblet
260- 2112mdc
261- Raider11
261- DdrumbumD
266- Domenech
274- princess peach

i just sorted the list in word. and most got below 260+ anyhow.

 

[username456789]

Some people are probably lying or exaggerating a little.

There is no logical reason why this forum would attract so many with scores of 260+ and so few from 190-230. Especially with the site being as popular as it is now.

I think there's a VERY good reason why this forum would attract so many people with scores of 260+. Most people who score that high are very highly motivated, sometimes to the point of obsession when it comes to this exam. Those are the kind of people who will actively seek out resources like this.

Add to that the fact that the people who are scoring that high are obviously very happy about their scores and are likely to post them. The people who scored lower than they were hoping are less likely to come on here to tell us all about their personal letdown.

 

[littlealex]

I agree w/ above.
1. A lot of high scorers are neurotic and hang around the computer way too much.
2. Typically only those that do well come visit the forum and share. The atmosphere here is such that few people who did not score well are willing to come share their scores amongst those that did much better.

There ARE a higher percentage of high scores on this forum (my opinion, of course), and there are a higher percentage of people w/ low scores who simply do not wish to share their score (quite understandably).

 

[kryptik]

have to agree with Guy also and to add to it keep in mind some of those are img's who get a longer study time some as much as 6-8months and some are even practicing physicians so its not absurd to see such scores

even if you take of 10points from everyone on that list its still a dominating/impressive list

i also dont get why people dont question them about their practice scores but suddenly doubt their real scores, those folks put up some huge practice numbers its only right they get high scores

congrats to all of them and everyone else

 

[username456789]

I really would doubt it,,,lets not fall into that trap here ok? sheesh..yea like many high scorers all come here to post their 270 s yeaaa right most 270s don t hang on the net posting here im sure they have much better things to do😴😴😴😴

DRJJ1, your post history is riddled with putting other people down for doing well.

Why do you hate others' success so much?

 

[DocDanny]

I think there's a VERY good reason why this forum would attract so many people with scores of 260+. Most people who score that high are very highly motivated, sometimes to the point of obsession when it comes to this exam. Those are the kind of people who will actively seek out resources like this.

Add to that the fact that the people who are scoring that high are obviously very happy about their scores and are likely to post them. The people who scored lower than they were hoping are less likely to come on here to tell us all about their personal letdown.

ALL med students are highly motivated.

And this forum attracts ALL kinds of medical students. Not just the gunners. All med students like resources like this, because ALL med students have questions and like advice.

A score of 220 isn't a "letdown". The lack of scores on here that are towards the middle of the bell curve are suspicious. Even if there ARE that many top scorers, there should be dozens and dozens of people who proudly post scores between 200-230. How can you not think it is suspicious?

 

[DocDanny]

i just sorted the list in word. and most got below 260+ anyhow.

In that list alone, there are 57 people. 36 got a 245 or above. 24 got a 250 or above. At the same time, SEVEN got a 260+ and only NINE got between a 188 and a 230.

That's ALOT of people who are too intimidated by an anonymous website to post their scores. Poster's being intimidated or ashamed isn't going to account for all of this. These scores are extremely, extremely skewed.

 

[DivCurlZero]

.

 

[FadingPromise]

Guys, maybe someone have already said this, but why do you care so much?

So somone got a really good score. Either he/she was brilliant, or they just have nothing better to do than lie and brag about themselves on online forum. Just stick to your plan, your goal, as whatever others say in this forum has no bearing on your performance, with the possible exception that someone posting misleading score offers tips that are probably useless. But then, if you read enough tips from "successful" people, you would already get the main theme and should know well enough to question outrageous advises.

Just mind your own plates guys. Everything outside of that zone doesn't matter.

 

[username456789]

ALL med students are highly motivated.

And this forum attracts ALL kinds of medical students. Not just the gunners. All med students like resources like this, because ALL med students have questions and like advice.

A score of 220 isn't a "letdown". The lack of scores on here that are towards the middle of the bell curve are suspicious. Even if there ARE that many top scorers, there should be dozens and dozens of people who proudly post scores between 200-230. How can you not think it is suspicious?

Because there is nothing even remotely suspicious or alarming about the facts. If you sit down and figure out roughly how many people score highly, there are more than you probably think.

For me, I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't have done nearly as well as I have during M1/M2 and especially Step I had it not been for this site and all the terrific advice/guidance. So really, I can't say I'm coming here to post my high score any more than I can say I achieved my high score because I've been coming here. I am sure that I'm not alone there.

All med students are "motivated." Not all med students are MOTIVATED. I'm talking about the people (myself included) who obsess about beating the hell out of Step I from day one and spend all kind of hours on an internet messageboard trying to glean as much information as possible on how to do that.

Sure, people of all abilities peruse this site, but since I've been here in 2005 when looking for MCAT advice, it's PAINFULLY obvious that the site is dominated by the upper echelon of med students. Remember all the MCAT score report threads? I'm sure you think they were all liars too, but when you run the numbers

SDN in no way, shape, or form represents a normal sampling of medical students. I kinda thought everyone knew that.

I didn't say 220 is a bad score. I'm saying that people who were shooting for a 240 and got a 220 may perceive that as a letdown. And I know several of my classmates that post on SDN from time to time that are "middle of the pack-ers", and none of them have posted their scores on here. Why? I can't say, I'm not them. But I also don't blame someone for not wanting to post their score when they get overwhelmed by reading all these high scores.

You're making the mistake of thinking that medical students of all caliber post in equal numbers and with the same frequently on this site. This is certainly not the case.

 

[womp]

Guys, maybe someone have already said this, but why do you care so much?

So somone got a really good score. Either he/she was brilliant, or they just have nothing better to do than lie and brag about themselves on online forum. Just stick to your plan, your goal, as whatever others say in this forum has no bearing on your performance, with the possible exception that someone posting misleading score offers tips that are probably useless. But then, if you read enough tips from "successful" people, you would already get the main theme and should know well enough to question outrageous advises.

Just mind your own plates guys. Everything outside of that zone doesn't matter.

Many people use the scores to see what studying methods work and where they stand at a particular point of studying. If there is strong suspicion that some of those scores are exaggerated, it really lowers the value of the forum. It's easy to see why there would be people who are upset about this development.

I've always found SDN to be pretty inclusive, from the gunners to those who struggle. It was always great to see both sides of the experience. I don't think it's a good thing that many who have very solid and respectable scores (220s-230s) are now intimidated to share their experiences even though their experiences may actually apply to the largest number of readers.

 

[DocDanny]

I know that there'd be many people, in any given year, who score very highly.

But I can't see a reason why they'd post here in such large numbers. And so they are obsessed and come in here in large numbers. But what about the people who are on the other end? Why are they gone?

For every person who can realistically reach 270 who post on here to get advice, there should be somebody who is scoring LOW, and comes on here for advice because they aren't getting the scores they want. But as I said, 40% of posters report a score of 250+.

Do you have any actual proof that the posters on here are of a "higher caliber", other than the scores they post?

I've been here for a few weeks, so I don't remember any MCAT threads.

I wasn't implying that you thought 220 was a bad score. I apologize if it came across as such. In fact, NOBODY would think that that is a bad score. So where are all those people, and why aren't they posting?

That they are intimidated just isn't a sufficient answer.

And FadingPromise, I don't think anyone's really getting worked up. It's just an interesting conversation.

 

[lord_jeebus]

We have this discussion here every year. I think that USMLEWorld has made 260+ a little more common, but overall things haven't changed much in the past 6 years (when I started following posts in this forum).

 

[DdrumbumD]

Because there is nothing even remotely suspicious or alarming about the facts. If you sit down and figure out roughly how many people score highly, there are more than you probably think.

For me, I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't have done nearly as well as I have during M1/M2 and especially Step I had it not been for this site and all the terrific advice/guidance. So really, I can't say I'm coming here to post my high score any more than I can say I achieved my high score because I've been coming here. I am sure that I'm not alone there.

All med students are "motivated." Not all med students are MOTIVATED. I'm talking about the people (myself included) who obsess about beating the hell out of Step I from day one and spend all kind of hours on an internet messageboard trying to glean as much information as possible on how to do that.

Sure, people of all abilities peruse this site, but since I've been here in 2005 when looking for MCAT advice, it's PAINFULLY obvious that the site is dominated by the upper echelon of med students. Remember all the MCAT score report threads? I'm sure you think they were all liars too, but when you run the numbers

SDN in no way, shape, or form represents a normal sampling of medical students. I kinda thought everyone knew that.

I didn't say 220 is a bad score. I'm saying that people who were shooting for a 240 and got a 220 may perceive that as a letdown. And I know several of my classmates that post on SDN from time to time that are "middle of the pack-ers", and none of them have posted their scores on here. Why? I can't say, I'm not them. But I also don't blame someone for not wanting to post their score when they get overwhelmed by reading all these high scores.

You're making the mistake of thinking that medical students of all caliber post in equal numbers and with the same frequently on this site. This is certainly not the case.

Well said

 

[slowbutsteady]

maybe reading the forums is so helpful, that many of the 260+ people are on SDN. that wouldn't surprise me at all. i mean, if i was aiming to get a 260+, i would definitely look at as many resources as possible, and this forum is such a great resource.

and even if only a fourth of the ~350 people who got above 260 are on SDN that's still like ~80 people.

Others have estimated that about 10% of the premed population posts on SDN. I suspect that the percentage of med students who do so is MUCH lower. (We have other crap to do.)

So, if there are 350 people who got over 260, we should only see a handful of such scores here. Add a few because of self-selection.

 

[WellWornLad]

Has anyone actually counted the number of 260+? I've seen maybe 6-7, but I haven't been counting.

Check out the rescore thread and you'll see that there are people who didn't do as well as they had hoped. I've also seen maybe 3-4 posters who claim they failed, which is about the same % as 260+ if I recall correctly.