What's it going to take to match anesthesiology

[SillyGenius]

I failed the first year of med school and need to remediate M1 year. I know why I failed and I know I can fix it. I'm aware that I'm in a bad spot, but I know that I can do better. My dream is to do anesthesiology.

I'm at a low tier MD school. I came into med school with 1 first author publication and 2 mid-author publications from a masters I did.

So, what's it going to take?

250-260 on step 2?
Honors on most clinical rotations?
7-8 total publications?

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

If anesthesiology stays at the same competiveness or gets tougher, it’s probably out of the question. Match rate for MDs (and even more so DOs keeps dropping). I’d explore other specialties as a backup.

 

[SillyGenius]

If anesthesiology stays at the same competiveness or gets tougher, it’s probably out of the question. Match rate for MDs (and even more so DOs keeps dropping). I’d explore other specialties as a backup.

Hmm, what specialties are within reach at this point? IM, FM, and psychiatry for sure. Any others?

 

[EvanHansenFan]

Rather than focusing on specialties, make sure you are able to get your studying plan and resources in place before beginning to repeat M1 year.

Remember, academics come first. Then extracurriculars like service or leadership, and eventually research.

I was a struggling pre-clinical student as well. This is the advice I got from my school advisors and fellow SDN advisors as well.

You are not alone. We are all rooting for you!

 

[aldol16]

Focus more on the Step scores and doing well on clinical rotations. Should always aim to honor all but if you had to pick, the most important ones would be medicine, surgery, and your subI in anesthesiology.

 

[Med Ed]

Passing M1.

Edit: There is a strong temptation for struggling students to propose some type of redemption narrative, where they defy all sorts of odds and match stronger than anyone would have guessed. I'm all for motivation, but the risk is that it puts the student's mind somewhere in the future when it should be in the present.

 

[Ho0v-man]

You most likely won’t match anesthesiology.

That’s a red flag. You’re now most likely only able to match primary care, psych, and neurology.

If you’re not okay with ending up in primary care, you should consider whether or not you want to move forward.

 

[SillyGenius]

You most likely won’t match anesthesiology.

That’s a red flag. You’re now most likely only able to match primary care, psych, and neurology.

If you’re not okay with ending up in primary care, you should consider whether or not you want to move forward.

There's got to be a number on the Step 2 exam or some amount of pubs that can make up for this, or no? Is it really that big of a deal to residencies? It's literally the first year

 

[Med Ed]

There's got to be a number on the Step 2 exam or some amount of pubs that can make up for this, or no? Is it really that big of a deal to residencies? It's literally the first year

You're up the rest of the residency applicant pool, ~95% of which did not have to repeat a year.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the only thing you have proven so far in medical school is that you can fail a semester. Forget Step 2, forget grandiose research plans. You're only goal is to restart next year with a new attitude and pass your classes.

Also, if you keep asking the same question you'll keep getting the same response, even if you don't want to hear it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

As mentioned above it’s very hard to go from failing a year to scoring in the top percentile amongst test takers who were in the top percentile in undergrad

 

[Ho0v-man]

There's got to be a number on the Step 2 exam or some amount of pubs that can make up for this, or no? Is it really that big of a deal to residencies? It's literally the first year

1) most people who fail first year of med school don’t go on to make a neurosurgery level competitive application and then apply to a moderately competitive field.

2) when deciding who to interview for residency, the majority of competitive residency programs will weed out applications with remediations/board failures/rotation failures, etc without ever looking at the rest of the app. It sucks but you’ve got to do something when you’ve got 1500 apps and the staff to only review about 500 of them. Does this mean they occasionally miss the diamond in the rough? Maybe, very rarely. But since doing it this way is working, there’s no reason to do it differently.

3) does it matter in your situation if there is some magic list of overachievement boxes you could check that could result in success? What you’ve proven now is that if there’s is such a thing, you can’t do it. You don’t have the bandwidth to pass classes and you’re asking to what degree you need to murder them AND do research, AND network, AND crush rotations and aways. Put another way, you’re asking how many reps of 225lbs should you be benching when you can’t even lift up the bar.

Now is there some unlikely scenario where you match anesthesia by networking with your home program and becoming the best med student they’ve ever had? Yeah. But it’s not realistic to think you’ll be a way above average applicant when you’re currently below minimum.

Finally, I’m sorry. Med schools hard AF and smart people fail all the time. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a good doctor and have a good life/career. But your options are now limited and anyone who downplays that is lying to you. I’m only being this blunt because med school is expensive and terrible. If you’re not okay with limited options, you should consider moving onto something else. There’s no shame in that.

 

[SillyGenius]

1) most people who fail first year of med school don’t go on to make a neurosurgery level competitive application and then apply to a moderately competitive field.

2) when deciding who to interview for residency, the majority of competitive residency programs will weed out applications with remediations/board failures/rotation failures, etc without ever looking at the rest of the app. It sucks but you’ve got to do something when you’ve got 1500 apps and the staff to only review about 500 of them. Does this mean they occasionally miss the diamond in the rough? Maybe, very rarely. But since doing it this way is working, there’s no reason to do it differently.

3) does it matter in your situation if there is some magic list of overachievement boxes you could check that could result in success? What you’ve proven now is that if there’s is such a thing, you can’t do it. You don’t have the bandwidth to pass classes and you’re asking to what degree you need to murder them AND do research, AND network, AND crush rotations and aways. Put another way, you’re asking how many reps of 225lbs should you be benching when you can’t even lift up the bar.

Now is there some unlikely scenario where you match anesthesia by networking with your home program and becoming the best med student they’ve ever had? Yeah. But it’s not realistic to think you’ll be a way above average applicant when you’re currently below minimum.

Finally, I’m sorry. Med schools hard AF and smart people fail all the time. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a good doctor and have a good life/career. But your options are now limited and anyone who downplays that is lying to you. I’m only being this blunt because med school is expensive and terrible. If you’re not okay with limited options, you should consider moving onto something else. There’s no shame in that.

I'm not aiming for a neurosurg application as I was never interested in neurosurg. That is way more competitive than my interest, anesthesiology. In other words, I'm not asking how to turn into a Ferrari when being a BMW will get the job done

I get weeding out is a thing through algorithms. But is it unreasonable to think that the lower tier residency would at least look at my app? I know I'm not getting into Harvard Anesthesiology residency, nor was I ever aiming for that. That's why I was asking what it would take to get some looks and potentially match at an anesthesiology residency. If its a lower tier residency then so be it.

Like I said, I know why I failed, I know what I need to do and I'm confident I can do it. I don't think its unreasonable to think that I would go from being below average to above average. I already took the courses and know what to study and what to fix. Where is the data on first year repeaters?

Lmao bro. It's not about smart or dumb people failing. PEOPLE fail all the time. It's literally impossible to go through life without failing. Obviously one year doesn't dictate how my career will turn out. If that were true then my school would have just outright dismissed me. Are my options limited? Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm asking how to make up for this. That was the point of my post. And, obviously I won't just apply anesthesiology. I will def apply to some primary care.

You seriously expect me to consider walking away from med school after literally beating out thousands of other applicants and being the 2% that made it in to my school? I did a masters and multiple gap years. Why would I walk away from a career that makes at least 4-5X the median salary?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I'm not aiming for a neurosurg application as I was never interested in neurosurg. That is way more competitive than my interest, anesthesiology. In other words, I'm not asking how to turn into a Ferrari when being a BMW will get the job done

I get weeding out is a thing through algorithms. But is it unreasonable to think that the lower tier residency would at least look at my app? I know I'm not getting into Harvard Anesthesiology residency, nor was I ever aiming for that. That's why I was asking what it would take to get some looks and potentially match at an anesthesiology residency. If its a lower tier residency then so be it.

Like I said, I know why I failed, I know what I need to do and I'm confident I can do it. I don't think its unreasonable to think that I would go from being below average to above average. I already took the courses and know what to study and what to fix. Where is the data on first year repeaters?

Lmao bro. It's not about smart or dumb people failing. PEOPLE fail all the time. It's literally impossible to go through life without failing. Obviously one year doesn't dictate how my career will turn out. If that were true then my school would have just outright dismissed me. Are my options limited? Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm asking how to make up for this. That was the point of my post. And, obviously I won't just apply anesthesiology. I will def apply to some primary care.

You seriously expect me to consider walking away from med school after literally beating out thousands of other applicants and being the 2% that made it in to my school? I did a masters and multiple gap years. Why would I walk away from a career that makes at least 4-5X the median salary?

Match rate for MDs is now like sub 80%, so theoretically in order to match you would need to be better than 20% of all MD applicants and that’s hard to do with remediating a year.

 

[SillyGenius]

As mentioned above it’s very hard to go from failing a year to scoring in the top percentile amongst test takers who were in the top percentile in undergrad

Hard, not impossible. You forget that I was also amongst the top students at my undergrad. As I mentioned earlier, I know what went wrong and I know I can fix it. I just was asking a simple question to understand how I can makeup for the failed year so that I know what opportunities to be on the lookout for.

 

[eatfresh]

I failed the first year of med school and need to remediate M1 year. I know why I failed and I know I can fix it. I'm aware that I'm in a bad spot, but I know that I can do better. My dream is to do anesthesiology.

I'm at a low tier MD school. I came into med school with 1 first author publication and 2 mid-author publications from a masters I did.

So, what's it going to take?

250-260 on step 2?
Honors on most clinical rotations?
7-8 total publications?

seems like you already know the answer to your own question. yes, you are going to need to accomplish all three of those things.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I just was asking a simple question to understand how I can makeup for the failed year

You can’t. That’s the harsh truth. Just because you don’t like the answer doesn’t make it any less true.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

To put into perspective I am a USMD, have 26X step 2, great letters of rec, three pubs, honored most rotations, and no red flags on app. Despite this I only got 7 interviews this cycle. I can’t explain why my cycle didn’t go better, but I am certain the current competitiveness of anesthesia has a lot to do with it.

Unfortunately there are some specialties where the competitiveness is so high that they are looking for ANY reason to filter you out. As others have said I genuinely believe primary care is where you will end up so you should ask yourself if you would be happy going into family medicine or internal medicine. Is it possible you defy the odds and prove us all wrong? Sure it’s possible, but it definitely is not likely.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I'm not aiming for a neurosurg application as I was never interested in neurosurg. That is way more competitive than my interest, anesthesiology. In other words, I'm not asking how to turn into a Ferrari when being a BMW will get the job done

I get weeding out is a thing through algorithms. But is it unreasonable to think that the lower tier residency would at least look at my app? I know I'm not getting into Harvard Anesthesiology residency, nor was I ever aiming for that. That's why I was asking what it would take to get some looks and potentially match at an anesthesiology residency. If its a lower tier residency then so be it.

Like I said, I know why I failed, I know what I need to do and I'm confident I can do it. I don't think its unreasonable to think that I would go from being below average to above average. I already took the courses and know what to study and what to fix. Where is the data on first year repeaters?

Lmao bro. It's not about smart or dumb people failing. PEOPLE fail all the time. It's literally impossible to go through life without failing. Obviously one year doesn't dictate how my career will turn out. If that were true then my school would have just outright dismissed me. Are my options limited? Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm asking how to make up for this. That was the point of my post. And, obviously I won't just apply anesthesiology. I will def apply to some primary care.

You seriously expect me to consider walking away from med school after literally beating out thousands of other applicants and being the 2% that made it in to my school? I did a masters and multiple gap years. Why would I walk away from a career that makes at least 4-5X the median salary?

You misunderstand. I’m saying you’d need like an insane neurosurgery quality app but for anesthesia, to make up for this barring extenuating circumstances like personal connections.

Best of luck.

 

[SillyGenius]

To put into perspective I am a USMD, have 26X step 2, great letters of rec, three pubs, honored most rotations, and no red flags on app. Despite this I only got 7 interviews this cycle. I can’t explain why my cycle didn’t go better, but I am certain the current competitiveness of anesthesia has a lot to do with it.

Unfortunately there are some specialties where the competitiveness is so high that they are looking for ANY reason to filter you out. As others have said I genuinely believe primary care is where you will end up so you should ask yourself if you would be happy going into family medicine or internal medicine. Is it possible you defy the odds and prove us all wrong? Sure it’s possible, but it definitely is not likely.

That's crazy man, I'm sorry. I hope the match works out for you.

I don't mind doing something in primary care. I'll probably apply anesthesiology and FM + IM as backups. Am I screwed for fellowships because of the first year failure?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

That's crazy man, I'm sorry. I hope the match works out for you.

I don't mind doing something in primary care. I'll probably apply anesthesiology and FM + IM as backups. Am I screwed for fellowships because of the first year failure?

Depends. Cardio/GI/PCCM/hemeonc will all be tougher since it’s less likely that you match academic IM. But of course the less competitive ones are still on the table as well as some competitive ones if you can match to a lower tier program with in house fellowships

 

[ACSurgeon]

That's crazy man, I'm sorry. I hope the match works out for you.

I don't mind doing something in primary care. I'll probably apply anesthesiology and FM + IM as backups. Am I screwed for fellowships because of the first year failure?

I’ve been out of training a few years, so things could be different now. My advice is:
- do your best moving forward
- wait for clinical rotations to see what you’re actually interested in
- find a couple good mentors in the field to guide you and advocate for you
- there is no formula to overcome a red flag but every match some people match better than you’d expect. They take a chance and it works. If you find mentors at your home program to try to push you forward, it can be done.
- competitiveness of specialties waxes and wanes. Anesthesia is a prime specialty for said ups and downs. No sense trying to guess what it’ll be like 3 years from now
- you should be able to find fulfillment and good work life balance in a lot of other specialties other than anesthesia. There’s good money to be made across the board, and often with less call and politics.

Good luck!

 

[MDMechEngr]

I'm not asking how to turn into a Ferrari when being a BMW will get the job done

BMW= No red flag, 1st quartile, honor all except one rotation, S2 above 260, above average research, pubs, and presentation at conferences in your field, good LOR and AOA.

Nissan= failure or repeating 1st year, .....

 

[Esmolol]

Kia?...

 

[SillyGenius]

BMW= No red flag, 1st quartile, honor all except one rotation, S2 above 260, above average research, pubs, and presentation at conferences in your field, good LOR and AOA.

Nissan= failure or repeating 1st year, .....

Kia?...

This makes 0 sense. The car you are describing is a Rolls Royce

Here's what the data says:

1. There are like 9% of people that fail Step 1.
2. A 243 on Step 2 is like 50 percentile. Anything above 255 is like top quartile.
3. 85% of med students finish within 4 years meaning 15% take more than 4 years (Yes, I know the number includes all academic LOA, medical LOA, research LOA, and personal LOA). But, this just shows that an LOA isn't as uncommon as some make it seem.
4. Also, AOA is for 20% of a med school's class. This means 80% doesn't have AOA.
5. Average amount of pubs for a med student is like 6.
6. Roughly 20% of a student's class can honor a rotation (these numbers change slightly based on the rotation and on the school). We'll pick 20% to put the argument in your favor. This means that 80% (an overwhelming majority) don't honor a rotation.

I make this point, that a lot of people are going to have some red flag on their app or at least some deficiency. I doubt adcoms are going to judge me entirely based off of one semester. That would be like measuring who the tallest kid in kindergarten is. I do get that I'm highly likely to wind up in FM, IM, peds, or psych. If that's the case, great. I'm still a doc outearning the median income by a lot.

Based on the data:

BMW= No red flag or minor deficiencies, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on some rotations, S2>250, good amount of research (I already have half the average and I'm starting M1 again, dont think I can get to at least 6?), great LORs, good ECs, and no AOA.

Nissan (average med student)= One red flag/ deficiency, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on no rotations, S2 around 240, ~6 research experiences, good LORs, some EC, and no AOA.

Kia= Multiple red flags, failed S1, honored no rotations, S2 around 240, barely any research, no ECs, meaningless LORs (which is a bad sign), no AOA.

Rolls Royce is out of the question, but I don't think turning into a BMW is unreasonable.

 

[addoncase]

You can spew out stats etc
I would for now focus on making it during the book years. Try and do well on step 2

You can make a difference on the application by doing aways, if a program knows you
It will help stand out when it comes to the application time. The timing of this will be important, and will take some planning in your part.

I have seen sub par candidates match bc the program knew them from prior via aways. It’s not common and by no means a given, but it is something to do

It will still be hard but you can try. I would def alsoApply Back up

 

[Rocklandm]

This makes 0 sense. The car you are describing is a Rolls Royce

Here's what the data says:

1. There are like 9% of people that fail Step 1.
2. A 243 on Step 2 is like 50 percentile. Anything above 255 is like top quartile.
3. 85% of med students finish within 4 years meaning 15% take more than 4 years (Yes, I know the number includes all academic LOA, medical LOA, research LOA, and personal LOA). But, this just shows that an LOA isn't as uncommon as some make it seem.
4. Also, AOA is for 20% of a med school's class. This means 80% doesn't have AOA.
5. Average amount of pubs for a med student is like 6.
6. Roughly 20% of a student's class can honor a rotation (these numbers change slightly based on the rotation and on the school). We'll pick 20% to put the argument in your favor. This means that 80% (an overwhelming majority) don't honor a rotation.

I make this point, that a lot of people are going to have some red flag on their app or at least some deficiency. I doubt adcoms are going to judge me entirely based off of one semester. That would be like measuring who the tallest kid in kindergarten is. I do get that I'm highly likely to wind up in FM, IM, peds, or psych. If that's the case, great. I'm still a doc outearning the median income by a lot.

Based on the data:

BMW= No red flag or minor deficiencies, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on some rotations, S2>250, good amount of research (I already have half the average and I'm starting M1 again, dont think I can get to at least 6?), great LORs, good ECs, and no AOA.

Nissan (average med student)= One red flag/ deficiency, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on no rotations, S2 around 240, ~6 research experiences, good LORs, some EC, and no AOA.

Kia= Multiple red flags, failed S1, honored no rotations, S2 around 240, barely any research, no ECs, meaningless LORs (which is a bad sign), no AOA.

Rolls Royce is out of the question, but I don't think turning into a BMW is unreasonable.

What a stupid analogy

 

[SillyGenius]

What a stupid analogy

What an amazing explanation....

 

[DarkHorizon]

You ask a question, people give you their opinion. Do what you will with that info. You may disagree with them but it’s likely that they know more than you at this point of your career.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

How is average 6 publications? Does this include abstracts and presentations?

 

[addoncase]

Markets change as well, don’t pick Anes bc it’s the hot topic right now
No one maybe talking about by the time you you finish med school and residency which is about 8 years or so away

it’s a fantastic field and you do learn a lot, it’s not sitting around staring at your phone all day long. People die, patients will get hurt if you don’t know what you are doing. There is a lot of decision making that occurs before you even begin a case.

 

[Rocklandm]

You fed up. Deal with the consequences which in this case will be not getting into a competitive residency. You will NOT get into anesthesiology . Simple as that. Do with that info what you’d like.
You will be better off or likely to match with internal medicine.

 

[Dr.SPAC3MAN]

Gas unlikely, like mentioned in above comments, focus on getting through your first year. No one cares about your first two years of medical school unless you fail, then it is a big deal. I wouldn’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to. Best of luck.

 

[SillyGenius]

How is average 6 publications? Does this include abstracts and presentations?

I meant to write "publications." An article I looked at showed the average med student has 6 publications (not including abstracts or presentations). Of course, other sources may have this number slightly higher and other may have it slightly lower. I figured that publications is a better figure to look at since it more meaningful than abstracts or presentations. Of course, the aim is to have pubs, abstracts, and presentations

 

[SillyGenius]

Markets change as well, don’t pick Anes bc it’s the hot topic right now
No one maybe talking about by the time you you finish med school and residency which is about 8 years or so away

it’s a fantastic field and you do learn a lot, it’s not sitting around staring at your phone all day long. People die, patients will get hurt if you don’t know what you are doing. There is a lot of decision making that occurs before you even begin a case.

Who said I was picking anesthesiology because its a hot topic or because I want to sit around all day? I want to do it because its my interest.

People die and patients get hurt in all fields of medicine if the doc or nurse doesn't know what they are doing.

 

[SillyGenius]

You fed up. Deal with the consequences which in this case will be not getting into a competitive residency. You will NOT get into anesthesiology . Simple as that. Do with that info what you’d like.
You will be better off or likely to match with internal medicine.

I'm not fed up or angry. I get that the failure happened. I'm just trying to figure out what my realistic options are and what kind of a student I can be.

I understand that anesthesiology will be tough. I have acknowledged that in previous postings on this thread. That was in the tier list which you called "stupid" without any explanation. The whole point of that post was for me to explain the data and figure out that being slightly above average for residency is not out of the question at this point. The data showed that a significant minority has some major deficiency in their app. if you disagree with my assessment, then that's cool. Just explain it

 

[Ho0v-man]

This makes 0 sense. The car you are describing is a Rolls Royce

Here's what the data says:

1. There are like 9% of people that fail Step 1.
2. A 243 on Step 2 is like 50 percentile. Anything above 255 is like top quartile.
3. 85% of med students finish within 4 years meaning 15% take more than 4 years (Yes, I know the number includes all academic LOA, medical LOA, research LOA, and personal LOA). But, this just shows that an LOA isn't as uncommon as some make it seem.
4. Also, AOA is for 20% of a med school's class. This means 80% doesn't have AOA.
5. Average amount of pubs for a med student is like 6.
6. Roughly 20% of a student's class can honor a rotation (these numbers change slightly based on the rotation and on the school). We'll pick 20% to put the argument in your favor. This means that 80% (an overwhelming majority) don't honor a rotation.

I make this point, that a lot of people are going to have some red flag on their app or at least some deficiency. I doubt adcoms are going to judge me entirely based off of one semester. That would be like measuring who the tallest kid in kindergarten is. I do get that I'm highly likely to wind up in FM, IM, peds, or psych. If that's the case, great. I'm still a doc outearning the median income by a lot.

Based on the data:

BMW= No red flag or minor deficiencies, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on some rotations, S2>250, good amount of research (I already have half the average and I'm starting M1 again, dont think I can get to at least 6?), great LORs, good ECs, and no AOA.

Nissan (average med student)= One red flag/ deficiency, pass S1 on first attempt, honors on no rotations, S2 around 240, ~6 research experiences, good LORs, some EC, and no AOA.

Kia= Multiple red flags, failed S1, honored no rotations, S2 around 240, barely any research, no ECs, meaningless LORs (which is a bad sign), no AOA.

Rolls Royce is out of the question, but I don't think turning into a BMW is unreasonable.

Not sure why you feel the need to explain your situation to a thread full of people who’ve been through the match and may have even been involved in resident selection.

You sound like a premed who failed organic chemistry asking what mcat score they need to get into a top 20 school but acknowledging that you might have to settle for your state MD school. If someone approached you like that, you’d tell them they’re crazy.

I think you’re significantly downplaying your situation. The average med student doesn’t repeat a year. As a result, you will be viewed as below average when you apply for residency. You doubt adcoms will judge you based off one semester? You’re dead wrong.

 

[Med Ed]

I make this point, that a lot of people are going to have some red flag on their app or at least some deficiency. I doubt adcoms are going to judge me entirely based off of one semester. That would be like measuring who the tallest kid in kindergarten is. I do get that I'm highly likely to wind up in FM, IM, peds, or psych. If that's the case, great. I'm still a doc outearning the median income by a lot.

I think this where you're off. Not getting AOA isn't a deficiency. Not getting Honors in a given clerkship isn't a deficiency. Those things are normal.

Of the things that are bona fide deficiencies and will downgrade one's residency application, they mostly fall into three categories: impeded progress (year repeats) for academic reasons, Step failures, and serious conduct/professionalism violations.

If you do come back and glide through the rest of medical school without issues, you can indeed make the case that your failed semester was a remote one-off event and should note be of much concern. Not everyone will listen, but it would be a valid point.

I meant to write "publications." An article I looked at showed the average med student has 6 publications (not including abstracts or presentations).

The average medical student does not have 6 peer-reviewed published manuscripts. But I would be curious to see this article you mention.

 

[SillyGenius]

I think this where you're off. Not getting AOA isn't a deficiency. Not getting Honors in a given clerkship isn't a deficiency. Those things are normal.

Of the things that are bona fide deficiencies and will downgrade one's residency application, they mostly fall into three categories: impeded progress (year repeats) for academic reasons, Step failures, and serious conduct/professionalism violations.

If you do come back and glide through the rest of medical school without issues, you can indeed make the case that your failed semester was a remote one-off event and should note be of much concern. Not everyone will listen, but it would be a valid point.


The average medical student does not have 6 peer-reviewed published manuscripts. But I would be curious to see this article you mention.

That's a good point. I'm starting to see how bad this is looking. Well, I'm screwed. I better pray that I can match somewhere. I guess at this point matching to a categorical academic IM or FM would be like getting into anesthesiology (without a repeated year) for me

I'm also seeing how insanely difficult it would be to get AOA. Looks like it's not just grades but also ECs and other stuff. I get it, at the best case scenario I end up passing S1, doing mediocre on S2, no AOA, honor maybe 1 rotation, and get a decent amount of research (def outpacing the average since I did a masters and published 3 studies). I just hope this translates to a categorical match somewhere

I'm not sure where I can find official stats. But, I found an article about this med student in Nevada who had like 18 pubs. The article mentioned the average as being roughly 6. It was published in 2022, so I thought it may be somewhat representative. The article doesn't give a source for this info, but it seems reliable? The article writes "While the national average for medical students having research papers published is just under six..."

Medical Student Far Surpasses National Average of Research Papers Published

Vladislav Zhitny, an emigrant from the Ukraine, has had 18 papers appear in a variety of publications.

www.unlv.edu

 

[Med Ed]

That's a good point. I'm starting to see how bad this is looking. Well, I'm screwed. I better pray that I can match somewhere. I guess at this point matching to a categorical academic IM or FM would be like getting into anesthesiology (without a repeated year) for me

"Screwed" is too strong a term, IMHO, but I'm glad you are starting to see the seriousness of your situation. When you go back next fall you need to get through the pre-clership curriculum without any more hiccups.

Most people in your shoes who graduate do match into categorical spots, with fields like FM, IM, peds, neuro, and PM&R being well represented. EM is definitely on the table, as is psych (which will overlook academic blemishes if you are otherwise a good fit for the specialty). There are other niche fields like occupational medicine, but very few people are interested in those.

Once you start residency you will essentially have a clean slate.

 

[SillyGenius]

"Screwed" is too strong a term, IMHO, but I'm glad you are starting to see the seriousness of your situation. When you go back next fall you need to get through the pre-clership curriculum without any more hiccups.

Most people in your shoes who graduate do match into categorical spots, with fields like FM, IM, peds, neuro, and PM&R being well represented. EM is definitely on the table, as is psych (which will overlook academic blemishes if you are otherwise a good fit for the specialty). There are other niche fields like occupational medicine, but very few people are interested in those.

Once you start residency you will essentially have a clean slate.

So glad that i'll have a clean slate for residency, thats a relief

I'll focus on the important stuff for now which is getting through pre-clerkship and passing my courses. Thankfully it sounds like i still have a realistic shot at categorical spots in primary care and some other specialties

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

That's a good point. I'm starting to see how bad this is looking. Well, I'm screwed. I better pray that I can match somewhere. I guess at this point matching to a categorical academic IM or FM would be like getting into anesthesiology (without a repeated year) for me

I'm also seeing how insanely difficult it would be to get AOA. Looks like it's not just grades but also ECs and other stuff. I get it, at the best case scenario I end up passing S1, doing mediocre on S2, no AOA, honor maybe 1 rotation, and get a decent amount of research (def outpacing the average since I did a masters and published 3 studies). I just hope this translates to a categorical match somewhere

I'm not sure where I can find official stats. But, I found an article about this med student in Nevada who had like 18 pubs. The article mentioned the average as being roughly 6. It was published in 2022, so I thought it may be somewhat representative. The article doesn't give a source for this info, but it seems reliable? The article writes "While the national average for medical students having research papers published is just under six..."

Medical Student Far Surpasses National Average of Research Papers Published

Vladislav Zhitny, an emigrant from the Ukraine, has had 18 papers appear in a variety of publications.

www.unlv.edu

AOA would actually be impossible at most schools since you need to be in the top 25% or so academically and with a repeat year that’s impossible

 

[SillyGenius]

AOA would actually be impossible at most schools since you need to be in the top 25% or so academically and with a repeat year that’s impossible

It’s impossible? I thought it would just be insanely difficult?

My school has no ranking of students, no GPA system, and is P/F. I’m actually not sure how my school selects AOA. Maybe they keep an internal rank that they don’t tell us about?

Since I’m restarting M1, don’t I essentially “start over.” My old grades will show on my transcript. But, wouldn’t they take my future grades into account and throw out my old grades when determining a rank (assuming they keep an internal rank)? I’m on academic probation right now. The promotions committee told me that once I successfully complete all my failed courses they will reevaluate my status. They said I can also petition them to remove the probation if I believe I’m up to par.

Assuming I start doing insanely well and pass everything with flying colors, shouldn’t I be eligible to be ranked in the my next cohort? Or do they just list me as “unranked” for the duration of my med school journey? I tried looking in my handbook but it doesn’t give much info about this

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It’s impossible? I thought it would just be insanely difficult?

My school has no ranking of students, no GPA system, and is P/F. I’m actually not sure how my school selects AOA. Maybe they keep an internal rank that they don’t tell us about?

Since I’m restarting M1, don’t I essentially “start over.” My old grades will show on my transcript. But, wouldn’t they take my future grades into account and throw out my old grades when determining a rank (assuming they keep an internal rank)? I’m on academic probation right now. The promotions committee told me that once I successfully complete all my failed courses they will reevaluate my status. They said I can also petition them to remove the probation if I believe I’m up to par.

Assuming I start doing insanely well and pass everything with flying colors, shouldn’t I be eligible to be ranked in the my next cohort? Or do they just list me as “unranked” for the duration of my med school journey? I tried looking in my handbook but it doesn’t give much info about this

They probably rank internally. I know that none of the repeat students at my school were eligible but I guess it could vary

 

[GoSpursGo]

It’s impossible? I thought it would just be insanely difficult?

My school has no ranking of students, no GPA system, and is P/F. I’m actually not sure how my school selects AOA. Maybe they keep an internal rank that they don’t tell us about?

Since I’m restarting M1, don’t I essentially “start over.” My old grades will show on my transcript. But, wouldn’t they take my future grades into account and throw out my old grades when determining a rank (assuming they keep an internal rank)? I’m on academic probation right now. The promotions committee told me that once I successfully complete all my failed courses they will reevaluate my status. They said I can also petition them to remove the probation if I believe I’m up to par.

Assuming I start doing insanely well and pass everything with flying colors, shouldn’t I be eligible to be ranked in the my next cohort? Or do they just list me as “unranked” for the duration of my med school journey? I tried looking in my handbook but it doesn’t give much info about this

I agree with above, there may be an internal rank. How your initial failure impacts your class rank is anyone's guess, and they may even intentionally make the AOA selection process vague. But I would expect that repeating the year, in one way or another, would have a negative impact in your ability to get AOA. While the cases of students going from failing to "doing insanely well" are few and far between at baseline, I can also understand why students in your new cohort would be upset if you beat them out for AOA if you excelled after getting two attempts whereas they were able to master the material with only one attempt.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I do think the comments here about academic IM are a bit overblown. Sure, this will probably keep you out of BWH / MGH / JHH and the like. But there are plenty of good academic places that will consider people who fail preclinical courses or years. I can't speak to anesthesia, but in IM it won't be a career ender.

That said, failing another semester will end your medical career. SO that's what you need to focus on now. Ultimately, you may decide you want something other than anesthesia anyway.

 

[Rocklandm]

Just drop out and go to PA school and do anesthesiology that way

 

[addoncase]

Just drop out and go to PA school and do anesthesiology that way

That does not exist.

 

[addoncase]

Sure AOA maybe possible, it maybe outlined in your student handbook. Research is possible too sure, there are some ways to get published easily and other not so easy ways. I sense you are wanting to partake in multiple activities and will speed yourself thin.

Your focus should be on completing your coursework and clinical years without any more hiccups. Pass step 1 first attempt and do well on step2. If you can get off probation and get it removed completely that would be good too, the crap thing is sometimes state license forms, credentialaling and privileging applications as you about probation status during training years. They may still ask about why it took you an extra year for medical school.

Trust me that just the beginning of the questions they like to ask..

I believe you mentioned you know what you need to do different next time, which good but take a step back and reflect on the whole thing, You are smart enough to get into a US MD, I think you’ll be just fine going forward if you focus on what you need to do. It’s a long road ahead. Keep calm and carry on. Stay focused on what’s important going forward.

 

[LunaOri]

I would not focus on getting more reaearch during the academic year. Class grades, rotations, and STEP 2 score are all more important to residency programs. If you don’t do well in those areas, research won’t save your application.

 

[Esmolol]

Regarding the “starting over” - ERAS has a section that asks something like “During medical school, have you ever been on academic probation, if yes - explain.” (Not word for word but a version of it)