What's Needed to Get That MD in the US?

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Duchenne's

I Think I Have DMD
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Hi! I'm posting this for someone else...

Someone I know graduated from a medical school in Mexico 30 years ago but never passed the licensing exams here in the US.

If they were to pursue medicine again, what would they have to do? Would they only have to pass the equivalent of the written Step I/II/III? Or would they have to repeat part of medical school?

Thanks in advance!

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The straightforward way, to the best of my knowledge, for foreign medical graduate to practice medicine in US is to apply for USMLE exams through the ECFMG if his medical school abroad is approved. After passing USMLE step1 and step2 (CK and CS) and verification of his graduation, the ECFMG will issue a certificate. Then he should apply for residency in US to be licensed after certain time in residency training (2-3years).
Good luck
 
So you can graduate from medical school in another country but never get board certified, then 30 years later apply for the USMLE exams, pass them and immediately go to residency here in the US?
 
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Theoretically, there is no cut off for graduation to apply for USMLE exams. But, the chance to pass the exams and/or to secure a residency position decrease to great extent for old graduates compared to recent ones.
 
Awesome, thanks!! Does anyone know any differently than what mmed said?

Merry Christmas and God bless you all!
 
Awesome, thanks!! Does anyone know any differently than what mmed said?

Merry Christmas and God bless you all!

Only to add that the critical factor is acceptance to a US residency program. You cannot get licensed in the US unless you finish a US residency program. You can sit for the USMLE (if you qualify to do so), but you still need to do your residency. So that (the residency) is a sine qua non.
 
Only to add that the critical factor is acceptance to a US residency program. You cannot get licensed in the US unless you finish a US residency program. You can sit for the USMLE (if you qualify to do so), but you still need to do your residency. So that (the residency) is a sine qua non.

Makes sense!

To clarify one thing, though... once you pass the exams (Step I/II/III etc.), you officially have an "MD" after your name, right? Board certification and licensing are another issue...

Is that right? The reason that I ask is, as absurd as this might sound, my friend is arguably beyond the point where residency would be a good option (age, health, etc.). This whole process would be more along the lines of fulfilling a life dream (getting an MD in the US). So to do that, they would just have to pass the Step exams and not have to do residency, correct??
 
Getting an MD in US does ONLY mean that you join a medical school in US and finish it and get MD certificate. As a foreign medical graduate, finishing USMLE steps and even finishing residency and get licensed in states does not mean that you have an MD from the US. You are still a foreign medical graduate with an MD from your country of origin. This will stick with you forever in the license, employment ….etc. Without sitting to any USMLE step you still have an MD after your name like many researchers in US with an MD from their countries but still have this title following their names.
 
Makes sense!

To clarify one thing, though... once you pass the exams (Step I/II/III etc.), you officially have an "MD" after your name, right? Board certification and licensing are another issue...

Is that right?

If you graduated from a medical school that offers the MD, you are an "MD." For US purposes, you need to be licensed in a State as a physician to advertise as an "MD." To get this state licensure, you need to do state approved post-graduate training. USMG's who don't get their state licenses may not adverstise themeselves as an "MD" for business purposes.

Nick
 
If you graduated from a medical school that offers the MD, you are an "MD." For US purposes, you need to be licensed in a State as a physician to advertise as an "MD." To get this state licensure, you need to do state approved post-graduate training. USMG's who don't get their state licenses may not adverstise themeselves as an "MD" for business purposes.

Nick

True. If you have a medical degree from Harvard, Mexico City or Wallaballoo University & Gas Tank, you can call yourself Joe Doe, M.D.

HOWEVER, you are not legally a physician who can treat patients, nor may you call yourself a physician, unless you have graduated from a IMED-listed medical school, passed USMLE, completed a US residency and received a state medical license. In fact, you may NOT use your MD title, if it's likely that others would infer that you're a physician, when you're not.
Example 1: You work in a basic medical science lab. MD would be fine.
Example 2: You are manning the phones in a medical office. MD wouldn't work.
Example 3: You advertise in the local paper as a provider of medical services, herbal ointments, whatever, and use your foreign MD title. You'd be in jail.
 
Reagarding option #3, if you are not admitting (you have no priviliges at any hospital) and you are $$CASH basis only - you may never ever come to the attention of authorities. Do you have any idea how many unlicensed providers of medical services are out there?
 
True. If you have a medical degree from Harvard, Mexico City or Wallaballoo University & Gas Tank, you can call yourself Joe Doe, M.D.

HOWEVER, you are not legally a physician who can treat patients, nor may you call yourself a physician, unless you have graduated from a IMED-listed medical school, passed USMLE, completed a US residency and received a state medical license. In fact, you may NOT use your MD title, if it's likely that others would infer that you're a physician, when you're not.
Example 1: You work in a basic medical science lab. MD would be fine.
Example 2: You are manning the phones in a medical office. MD wouldn't work.
Example 3: You advertise in the local paper as a provider of medical services, herbal ointments, whatever, and use your foreign MD title. You'd be in jail.

What if a person is a recent medical school graduate and is a resident, can he or she use the MD initials in thier calling cards and email signature blocks?
 
What if a person is a recent medical school graduate and is a resident, can he or she use the MD initials in thier calling cards and email signature blocks?

Yes you can. From the first day of residency you will have ID with MD and your name in most program web sites will be followed by MD.
 
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My question is that I graduated from an Indian medical school so I have the MBBS degree instead of the MD degree. I just got my ECFMG certificate. I am currently working in an accident reconstruction consulting firm and I analyze and review medical records for this company. I wanted to know of the legality of putting the MD after my name now that I am ECFMG certified. Just putting those two little initials after my name would increase the amount I can bill to clients. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it. What I figure is that my MBBS is equivilent to an MD degree now that I have graduated from an accredited medical college and have passed the exams to take part in a residency just like any medical graduate who went to school here getting ready to start a residency program. Thanks in advance.
 
My question is that I graduated from an Indian medical school so I have the MBBS degree instead of the MD degree. I just got my ECFMG certificate. I am currently working in an accident reconstruction consulting firm and I analyze and review medical records for this company. I wanted to know of the legality of putting the MD after my name now that I am ECFMG certified. Just putting those two little initials after my name would increase the amount I can bill to clients. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it. What I figure is that my MBBS is equivilent to an MD degree now that I have graduated from an accredited medical college and have passed the exams to take part in a residency just like any medical graduate who went to school here getting ready to start a residency program. Thanks in advance.

You're joking right?
 
My question is that I graduated from an Indian medical school so I have the MBBS degree instead of the MD degree. I just got my ECFMG certificate. I am currently working in an accident reconstruction consulting firm and I analyze and review medical records for this company. I wanted to know of the legality of putting the MD after my name now that I am ECFMG certified. Just putting those two little initials after my name would increase the amount I can bill to clients. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it. What I figure is that my MBBS is equivilent to an MD degree now that I have graduated from an accredited medical college and have passed the exams to take part in a residency just like any medical graduate who went to school here getting ready to start a residency program. Thanks in advance.

While the MBBS is equivalent to the US MD, that does not mean that you can legally use the MD. In general, those of us with non-US degrees are advised that it is ok to have MD on our badges, use it in casual correspondence, etc. but if you are signing legal documents you should use the degree you were granted. I see no reason not to sign with MBBS and you don't want to have the appearance of trying to cover something up.

BTW, being ECFMG certified or graduating from an accredited medical college has nothing to do with using the MD. Your degree is an MBBS and that will never change; using the MD in casual situations does ease some confusion, but should never be used in legal documents or situations.
 
Thank you so much for the reply. It is not my intention to mislead people; it is just easier for people in America to understand what MD is rather than putting an explanation that MBBS is equivalent to MD. But I have been using MBBS anyways, and was just curious if getting the ECFMG certificate would allow me to use MD. I guess that is not the case and I appreciate your response.
 
Just putting those two little initials after my name would increase the amount I can bill to clients. .

"Attentions clients: I am going to increase the amounts on your bill because I have the MD initials after my name."
 
...BTW, being ECFMG certified or graduating from an accredited medical college has nothing to do with using the MD. Your degree is an MBBS and that will never change; using the MD in casual situations does ease some confusion, but should never be used in legal documents or situations.

Actually, that's not true. You CANNOT use your MD (or substitute your MBBS for MD) or call yourself a physician, if you do not hold a valid medical license, and your use of the MD title could be construed as being able to treat patients. (I don't know about using the MBBS title, because most ordinary people really wouldn't know what it is).

There's been several cases where people got severely burned for using the MD title, without having a medical license. So you'd need more than just an ECFMG certificate. You'll need a training or full medical license, before you're even allowed to use that title.

Obviously, there's exceptions. If you're a foreigner doing research only, people probably wouldn't mind. But if you started taking out ads in the local paper seeking patients or whatnot, and use that title, then you're pretty sure to be severely burned.
 
Actually, that's not true. You CANNOT use your MD (or substitute your MBBS for MD) or call yourself a physician, if you do not hold a valid medical license, and your use of the MD title could be construed as being able to treat patients. (I don't know about using the MBBS title, because most ordinary people really wouldn't know what it is).

There's been several cases where people got severely burned for using the MD title, without having a medical license. So you'd need more than just an ECFMG certificate. You'll need a training or full medical license, before you're even allowed to use that title.

Obviously, there's exceptions. If you're a foreigner doing research only, people probably wouldn't mind. But if you started taking out ads in the local paper seeking patients or whatnot, and use that title, then you're pretty sure to be severely burned.


uh, hello?? , that's exactly what Dr. Cox said
 
Actually, that's not true. You CANNOT use your MD (or substitute your MBBS for MD) or call yourself a physician, if you do not hold a valid medical license, and your use of the MD title could be construed as being able to treat patients. (I don't know about using the MBBS title, because most ordinary people really wouldn't know what it is).

There's been several cases where people got severely burned for using the MD title, without having a medical license. So you'd need more than just an ECFMG certificate. You'll need a training or full medical license, before you're even allowed to use that title.

Obviously, there's exceptions. If you're a foreigner doing research only, people probably wouldn't mind. But if you started taking out ads in the local paper seeking patients or whatnot, and use that title, then you're pretty sure to be severely burned.

I"m confused. No where did I say it was ok to use the MD title without having the license if one is trying to present themselves as a physician in the professional sense...that was the point I was trying to get across to the OP. It was ok in some situations, but not those where he was signing documents as a physician or some other similar situation.

Your response implies that no one is allowed to use the title MD (or equivalent) until they are licensed. This is not correct. If that were the case, it would be illegal to put MD on your badge, coat, chart notes, orders, etc. The MD, especially in a training situation, does not imply having an unrestricted license.

I am unsure as to why people are confused about this issue. Here are the facts...

the MD is a degree

an MBBS, MbChB, etc. are medical degrees and are acceptable equivalents to the US MD degree

you cannot practice medicine without a degree

you cannot practice medicine outside of a residency training program without a degree and a license

some states require a training license which requires a degree, being in a training program, and in most cases, completion of USMLE Steps 1 and 2

a license requires a degree, passing of USMLE Steps 1-3 and for foreign trained physicians, ECFMG certification

using the title MD implies one has a degree, but is not evidence that you are licensed. This is why interns and others without licenses are allowed to have MD on their badges and sign documents as MD - it is simply a reflection of their license.

I noted to the OP that it would be ok to use MD on a badge for example, to reduce confusion, because that does not imply he is presenting himself as anything other than what he is, which is a person who possesses a medical degree. MBBS is not well known in the US and there are no laws against using the MD in such situations; this has been well discussed herewith, by ECFMG and ACGME.

However, my problem with the OP using the MD is in signing legal documents. I do not know whether or not his job requires him to be licensed, since it appears he is not, I assume it does not require US physician licensing. I recommended to him that he use the term MBBS after his name when signing such documents because there is some semblance that he is "practicing medicine" or at the very least, offering medical opinion. Now, it is unlikely that the practice of reviewing medical charts is considered "practicing medicine" and that the OP would be sanctioned for doing so. However, I think this is a grey area and he would be best in signing MBBS for any activity which requires his use of his medical degree or knowledge. If he were in a training program, had completed the licensing process, he could comfortably use MD more frequently, but again, I think for legal documents pertaining to the practice of medicine he should still use MBBS.

Since we were no where near talking about taking out ads, etc. and practicing medicine, I did not think to include discussion of those types of situations with the OP. But obviously if he were to take out an ad, presenting himself as a physician with the intent to practice medicine, he would be unlicensed, and regardless of whether his degree was an MD or MBBS, that is illegal. But again the degree itself is not evidence of a license to practice medicine anymore than a PhD in psychology is the license to practice that field. But you can still call yourself an MD or PhD but you cannot present yourself as eligible to practice your craft without an unrestricted license outside of a training program.
 
My apologies to Kimberli Cox. I wrote before I read (properly). My mistake :oops:
 
I know LOTS of doctors who received an MBBS, did their residency in the US and call themselves MD all day long on legal documents, correspondence, etc. No one has called them out either. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
I know LOTS of doctors who received an MBBS, did their residency in the US and call themselves MD all day long on legal documents, correspondence, etc. No one has called them out either. :confused: :confused: :confused:

So what!! MBBS=MD, finished residency in US= license. MD all day and night long.
 
You're right in that the chances of being charged with anything is small. And we all do it (ie, those with foreign degrees using MD while in the US). However, when you are signing a legal document or giving testimony, you should be signing with your degree in order to avoid the appearance of any impropriety.

MD is the degree and does not mean you have a license and as such, has no bearing on the issue at hand. Frankly, how is signing MD when you have an MBBS any different than if you were to sign MD when you have a DO? Both are medical degrees but you can see where this could be misinterpreted.

Granted, its all semantics and for casual use, it makes no difference. But under the advice of my hospital attorneys, you don't want to do anything to look like you're trying to confuse people. Not sure why it doesn't make a difference in signing H&Ps, or on my badge, but it does in a court of law.

Do what you wish...this is just what my residency program and its attorneys advised.
 
I would like to thank you all for taking the time to answer my question. I especially want to thank Kimberli Cox for actually consulting her hospital attorney. I do not sign any legal documents or provide any testimony. I just provide support work for a biomechanical engineer and was curious about the laws. I decided to continue to use MBBS and just explain what it is anyways. The main reason I asked is because of the MBBS doctors using MD during their residencies. I guess it is better to be safe than sorry in this case as the job is just temporary as long as I Match or Scramble in March. Otherwise it will be another year working there.
 
So what!! MBBS=MD, finished residency in US= license. MD all day and night long.

Actually, you have to apply for a medical license in your state. Just because you finish a residency doesn't mean you automatically have a license. In fact, most programs require you apply for licensure after your first year (internship).
 
Actually, you have to apply for a medical license in your state. Just because you finish a residency doesn't mean you automatically have a license. In fact, most programs require you apply for licensure after your first year (internship).

Sure, you have to apply, renew, keep it in good standing ...etc. Even if you finish residency you might be not qualified for license in other states.
 
This has been an interesting topic. Anyone who has received an MD from a recognized medical school may legally append that title to his or her name. The major problem comes when said MDs "advertise" in such a way that they claim to be qualified to independently "practice medicine" as a physician. To do so in the US requires a valid state-issued physician and surgeon's licence. Even if you work in Federal venues, such as the VA or active duty military, you need a valid state-issued medical license. Medical licensure is left to the states; there is no such thing as a Federal medical license.

State licensure reuires a valid MD degree and completion of state approved post-graduate medical training. If you graduated at the top of your class at Harvard med school, but you never completed the required post-graduate training and never got a medical license, you cannot legally practice medicine...anywhere in the USA. Them's is the facts.

Nick
 
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