What's the best way to take day off?

[Al Pacino]

My residency has just sent out the final schedule for everyone.

Unfortunately, I just received a wedding invitation from a good friend for October. I need to take a Friday off to attend. If I had received the invite earlier, it would have been easy to schedule my vacation during those days?

How should I bring up this subject with the chief resident? Should I tell him the truth and have the possiblity that might request be declined?

Or should I just wait until maybe a month before and then say that I need a sick day to attend a doctor's appointment?

How do you guy usually do this so that it works out for everyone?

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[Poety]

I have a critical appointment I must attend right in the beginning of residency, I called them and told them - that was it. I called the coordinator since they do all the scheduling

 

[skypilot]

Can't you just swap days with another resident?

 

[Amy]

It shouldn't be too difficult. Remember, you are supposed to have 1 day in 7 off (avg). You should be able to get a golden weekend if you're q4. If you need all of Friday off, just use that as one of your days off. Our call schedule is made a couple of weeks before the month starts, so If I need a certain day or weekend off, I just tell the guy who's making the call schedule the month before. You could also trade with someone else if need be. How many days do you need off, exactly?

 

[stephend7799]

whatever you do lie to them

dont tell them its for a wedding because they frown upon people with friends and social lives

when i was an intern i dealt with the same thing. and they did not let me off early so i ended up showing up at one of my good friends wedding like 5 hours late.. it sucked.. I still am bitter about that.. and it was 5 years ago.

Just tell them you are goin to the doctor.. or you have 102 fever.. whatever..

 

[turtle md]

My residency has just sent out the final schedule for everyone.

Unfortunately, I just received a wedding invitation from a good friend for October. I need to take a Friday off to attend. If I had received the invite earlier, it would have been easy to schedule my vacation during those days?

How should I bring up this subject with the chief resident? Should I tell him the truth and have the possiblity that might request be declined?

Or should I just wait until maybe a month before and then say that I need a sick day to attend a doctor's appointment?

How do you guy usually do this so that it works out for everyone?

Lying to your chief is not the best way to begin you career as a resident . Be honest, and if they won't help, get one of your colleauges to help. If the chief won't help, then fu(%-em, and lie the next time . Anf if you colleauges won't help, then your in for a long turn .

 

[turtle md]

whatever you do lie to them

dont tell them its for a wedding because they frown upon people with friends and social lives

when i was an intern i dealt with the same thing. and they did not let me off early so i ended up showing up at one of my good friends wedding like 5 hours late.. it sucked.. I still am bitter about that.. and it was 5 years ago.

Just tell them you are goin to the doctor.. or you have 102 fever.. whatever..

That sucks. Sorry about your situation. How has it affected your relationship w/ the program, the idea that they wouldn't help you out?

 

[turtle md]

I hope I was not just a lucky one, but feel that my program is good for this type of thing . I was working a shift when my wife went in to labor. I just explained it to them, and they let me go, right there on the spot. Told me to take a couple of days to spend w/ her and our new baby .

 

[Al Pacino]

Like some of the preivous posters, I have been burned being honest when I requested ONE single day off weeks ahead of time because of a wedding or some other "social" function i.e. close family coming to town.

Chief says you have to find coverage. Well, it's tough finding coverage. No one can switch with me. At this point, I'm screwed. If I calll in sick, that won't fly b/c the cheif knows my real reason already.

I only want one goddam day off. I'm guessing the best way is to tell my chief about a month before the requested day off that I have a doctor's appointment. This way I won't be screwed even though it's a lie.

 

[stephend7799]

Lying to your chief is not the best way to begin you career as a resident . Be honest, and if they won't help, get one of your colleauges to help. If the chief won't help, then fu(%-em, and lie the next time . Anf if you colleauges won't help, then your in for a long turn .

ha ha ha,, im telling you being honest gets you nowhere fast in this profession.. always have your poker face on.. and do whatever is necessary to make life easier for YOU>> there is sound advice

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm curious...is the wedding on a Saturday or Friday?

Frankly, as a Chief I have no problem if you need time off for a doctor's appointment but the WHOLE day? I would find it suspicious if you gave me that as an excuse (since if you're scheduling this far in advance, you should be able to get your "doctor's appointment" first thing or last thing in the day and not miss too much of the work day).

I'd rather have you tell me the truth because these things have a way of being found out. If you take Friday off but work Saturday or Sunday that wouldn't matter to me. That said, Chiefs and programs are different and you might not be treated as well as one would like.

 

[8744]

Most residency program are so over-extended in regard to their commitments to provide warm, educated bodies to various hospital services that you hardly dare take a sick day as there is nobody to cover for you except one of your friends on an easy rotation (an outpatient clinic, for example) who will be pulled to do your call.

Good luck getting time to go to the wedding. I'd ask early, early for the day off as most chiefs will try to help you if you give them enough lead time.

 

[not-on-fire]

Intern year, wanted to go to a wedding. Found someone who would switch a call with me but one of the program directors told me that if I took off, this would be my ONE chance at leniency. Since I have older parents and didn't want to be stuck "sorry I can't come home your CABG, mom, I already was allowed a switch for a wedding," I decided not to go. The program director commended me for my decision, saying that calls were "so important" to my education.
Ahem. Not so much - call was so important so the hospital could have another phlebotomist and person to push patients to radiology! The only thing I learned was how to control my rage when yet another nurse refused to help take care of the patients.
Older and wiser now, we just switch and ignore the threats that we are using up our "one chance."
Find someone to switch with first and then go to the person who makes the decisions.

 

[rainking]

That sucks. Sorry about your situation. How has it affected your relationship w/ the program, the idea that they wouldn't help you out?

well i withdrew from the program at the end of the year. i was tired of being used and abused and hearing "it is for your education", when i knew it was just abuse.. I left surgery altogether. and got into another specialty altogether.

 

[sblau001]

well i withdrew from the program at the end of the year. i was tired of being used and abused and hearing "it is for your education", when i knew it was just abuse.. I left surgery altogether. and got into another specialty altogether.

Amen to that rainking.

 

[Hoo\/er]

I'm curious...is the wedding on a Saturday or Friday?

Frankly, as a Chief I have no problem if you need time off for a doctor's appointment but the WHOLE day? I would find it suspicious if you gave me that as an excuse (since if you're scheduling this far in advance, you should be able to get your "doctor's appointment" first thing or last thing in the day and not miss too much of the work day).

I'd rather have you tell me the truth because these things have a way of being found out. If you take Friday off but work Saturday or Sunday that wouldn't matter to me. That said, Chiefs and programs are different and you might not be treated as well as one would like.

Welcome to the bull**** otherwise known as residency. No other field or respected corporation would treat their employees with such callous disregard for very important social events. "Sure, you can have Friday off, but you better get your ass back in here on Saturday and Sunday to make up for it." What if the wedding is across the country? Am I supposed to fly their and back on the same day? Oh well, I guess I can't go.

If residents were given respect and reasonable requests for time off were granted more often and without conflict, there would be no need for these posts. How hard is it to treat residents like people with lives? That's all they are, just normal people. They have friends and families and important "once in a lifetime events" come up - let them go. As a chief, you mention that "these things have a way of being found out." Why not spend some of that time and effort in finding coverage for the resident instead of going all out to bust his balls?

 

[HTD]

Hmmm..

Why not just take a day of vacation? I hope you can get a vacation day twith 5 months notice? Are you forbidden from taking less than one week at a time? I would say avoid all the tips about lying etc. You chose an honorable profession. Be honorable, even when your peers are being selfish. You will have to make sacrifices. I can not count how many I made during residency and continue to make today. Yes, sometimes, you make the sacrifice knowing that someone could have accomidated you and didn't. Try to put away that anger and use it to be more understanding when you are in the senior position.

As a chief, I had to tell some interns (with children) that they had to work Christmas due to a last minute call schedule change. I called all of the interns on that rotation into my office and explained the situatuion. I let thee three of them work out a comprimise so that everyone got some time off and they had some control over the situation. They traded a few days. They were frustrated but all commented how much they appreciated the way I handled it. I say this only to point out, they are always options.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Welcome to the bull**** otherwise known as residency. No other field or respected corporation would treat their employees with such callous disregard for very important social events. "Sure, you can have Friday off, but you better get your ass back in here on Saturday and Sunday to make up for it." What if the wedding is across the country? Am I supposed to fly their and back on the same day? Oh well, I guess I can't go.

If residents were given respect and reasonable requests for time off were granted more often and without conflict, there would be no need for these posts. How hard is it to treat residents like people with lives? That's all they are, just normal people. They have friends and families and important "once in a lifetime events" come up - let them go. As a chief, you mention that "these things have a way of being found out." Why not spend some of that time and effort in finding coverage for the resident instead of going all out to bust his balls?

Hold on...me thinks you are reading a bit more into my reply than was meant.

The OP only notes that he has to take Friday off - hence my question about when the wedding was. Does he really only need Friday off, or does he need the whole weekend? Since he seems to think that a doctors appointment is an adequate excuse, one would assume he is only asking for Friday off since very few doctor's appointments last more than 24 hrs. If its only a day as the OP implied, there is much less "arranging" which needs to be done except that it is during the week when presumably things are busier (ie, with clinics, etc.), than if it were for a full 3 days.

With notice, no administrative Chief should have a problem arranging the call schedule to accomodate such events. Nor should a Chief have a problem with one of his residents taking time off - especially when each resident should have an average of 1 day off in 7.

I see no reason why you think I was "busting his balls". I was simply encouraging the OP to be respectful of his team and to be honest about the reason for the weekend off. I'm sure the Chief and the team would appreciate it as well and would be more likely to work with him to be able to make the wedding rather than be lied to.

Most people are willing and open to make things work for each other. Sometimes things don't work out and you have to take more call, see more patients, write more notes, because someone on the team needs help. I would be the last person to refuse someone time off for an important personal event and have, in fact, rounded on a large service alone because making the intern(s) come in would have meant they didn't have a full day off that week.

I'm sorry if you or anyone else felt that I was giving the OP a hard time, but from his post it simply seems to me that he is only asking for 1 day off and IMHO, honesty is still the best policy in this case.

 

[Al Pacino]

Thanks for all the replies; let me clarify my situation. I will need Friday and Saturday off. The wedding is in CA; I'm on the east coast. I will take a late Thursday night plane, land in LA on Friday, attend the Friday-Sat wedding, and fly out Sat night, and hopefully make it back Sunday.

Two months ago, the chief asked us for our vacation requests. We get 4 weeks and have to schedule in two-week blocks. At that time, I had not yet received the wedding invitation, so obviously I could not schedule the vacation to cover the wedding.

Now, the final vacation schedule has been set. It's going to be very difficult to move my vacation days without rearranging other people's schedules.

If I tell the chief now, he will likely say: "Too bad, the schedule is set already. If I change yours, I'm goign to have to change everyone else's. Too much of a headache. Why don't you switch?"

In that case, I need to find someone to switch with me. Let me tell you, switching is a pain in the ass, and a lot of times you have no one to switch with.

I don't want to take the chance that I can't find coverage. I've been screwed in the past.

How about taking a family leave? Let's say family emergency...if I do this, they have to let me off. I know it's not being honest, but what else can I do?

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
Most chief residents are happy to accomodate a hard-working resident who needs a specific day off with enough warning. The only problem that I ever have is when the same one or two people on my service always have some appointment or event that they "have to attend" and want an excessive amount of time off.

I never had a difficult time trading with a fellow resident or arranging coverage when someone had an emergency or needed a special day. Problems arise when the same folks overuse the goodwill of their team and their behavior makes people who are trying to do a good job suffer for their efforts.

I remember when I was an intern (before the 80-hour work week). I was on a service that consisted of two surgery interns, a pediatric intern and the chief resident. My fellow surgical intern became gravely ill and there was not another intern to pull from another service. The pediatrics department promptly informed the chief that the peds intern could only work a maximum of 24 hours every third day so I spent 48 hours on call and 24 hours off call for an entire month. Believe me, doing 48 hours straight with only cat naps whipped me into shape quicklly but when I found out that my fellow intern would never practice medicine and had ended up brain-damaged with a trach, I never complained again. I decided that I would rather be tired than diasbled. The peds intern had the nerve to request vacation in the middle of this month (denied by the surgery department).

Go to your chief, explain your situation, be prepared to trade a day or so. If you do this, you are probably going to get your day off and that will be the end of it. As I have said, most chiefs are pretty accomodating and only want the work to get done. If you do not abuse the system, everything goes well.

njbmd

 

[BKN]

Thanks for all the replies; let me clarify my situation. I will need Friday and Saturday off. The wedding is in CA; I'm on the east coast. I will take a late Thursday night plane, land in LA on Friday, attend the Friday-Sat wedding, and fly out Sat night, and hopefully make it back Sunday.

Two months ago, the chief asked us for our vacation requests. We get 4 weeks and have to schedule in two-week blocks. At that time, I had not yet received the wedding invitation, so obviously I could not schedule the vacation to cover the wedding.

Now, the final vacation schedule has been set. It's going to be very difficult to move my vacation days without rearranging other people's schedules.

If I tell the chief now, he will likely say: "Too bad, the schedule is set already. If I change yours, I'm goign to have to change everyone else's. Too much of a headache. Why don't you switch?"

In that case, I need to find someone to switch with me. Let me tell you, switching is a pain in the ass, and a lot of times you have no one to switch with.

I don't want to take the chance that I can't find coverage. I've been screwed in the past.

How about taking a family leave? Let's say family emergency...if I do this, they have to let me off. I know it's not being honest, but what else can I do?

You know the answer to the question. You can do what is ethical.

1. Most chief residents and chiefs of service will try to help you out, with adequate warning.

2. Sometimes in life we don't get everything we want, including going to a good friend's wedding. This is particularly true in medicine which is a profession. Professionals are legally and morally obligated to put their patients' interest ahead of your own. If you can't do that, get out and go into business.

3. Lieing to you chief or your chief resident is an incredibly bad idea. If you get caught, at best you'll dig a hole for yourself that you won't get out of for the rest of your residency. At worst, you'll be fired immediately with little chance of getting another residency or a license. Don't do it.

If my troops lie to me, they're likely to be history.

BKN

 

[Blade28]

Agree with the above advice. Unfortunately, sometimes there are times when the schedule just can't accommodate the odd day off here and there - a concurrent vacation by another resident is a good example.

Usually if you explain your situation and give as much advance notice as possible, the department will try to help out - or at least give you a nice reason why not.

 

[Gauss]

haha, don't lie ... please i love this. I lost track of how many times I got called in to cover interns suddenly stricken with "gastro". And not just 1 day, usually 2 days. Amazingly this was just before a golden weekend or in between days off for them.
This is very common at my large prelim program. However, at small programs this stuff doesn't fly and chiefs will definitely help out adjusting your schedule.

 

[rainking]

You know the answer to the question. You can do what is ethical.

1. Most chief residents and chiefs of service will try to help you out, with adequate warning.

2. Sometimes in life we don't get everything we want, including going to a good friend's wedding. This is particularly true in medicine which is a profession. Professionals are legally and morally obligated to put their patients' interest ahead of your own. If you can't do that, get out and go into business.

BKN

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

 

[DRDARIA]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

Well, first your comment about being early in the career was to BKN, who is a PD. Second-- have you ever had a job? Get real. There are many, many, jobs where you can't have the days off you want, or get vacation when you want it, and many of these make less than even lowly residents. Not being able to go to a friends wedding is disappointing, but not a tragedy. Now if you can't get off to be with a family member who is dying, then you'll have something to complain about.

 

[Solideliquid]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

C'mon! You are residents, and there will be more weddings. I don't think going to a wedding should be grounds for taking a day off no matter what. Weddings are usually scheduled FAR FAR in advance giving you more than enough time to schedule your vacation weeks around them. What next? Your best friend's dog just had puppies so you need to take two days off? What about your fellow residents?

Now if your spouse is giving birth that's totally different but please! I never have fun at weddings anyways

 

[SoCuteMD]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

Ummm...you do realize that BKN is a PD, right?

 

[Winged Scapula]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

Sorry BKN is not only not early in his/her career, but is a Program Director. I realize that you had a difficult time in your residency program, but not everyone does.

A good Chief will do what is best for the team and the patients and will always try to accomodate a hard-working resident. As I've stated before I've rounded on a large service myself in an effort to make sure that all the interns and junior residents were under hours and had a day off each weekend. And I'm not the only Chief I've seen do the same.

OTOH, i've had junior residents abuse the system as njbmd has. While I will still try to accomodate every reasonable request, the residents who seem to time and time again show up late, don't get their work done, ask for more time than the others off and complain about it are much less likely to have those requests satisfied.

Back to the OP - don't you get at least 1 weekend off each month? It would seem to me that you could request that your weekend in October be the weekend of the wedding and that you simply have to ask for Friday off. Perhaps you could be on call on Thursday and leave early am on Friday post-call to catch your plane - that way, you don't have to take an extra day off (which your Chief should give you anyway with enough notice and no major scheduling conflicts). Please don't lie - all it takes is 1 person to know or you to slip up and your reputation is suspect.

Finally, as others have noted, not everything in life is fair and as a professional adult you will soon learn that. You can't always call in sick, or go home and sleep post-call when you have patients to see and sometimes you have to work on holidays or miss a family function. Missing a wedding is disappointing but its not one the same scale as being forced to work when a parent is gravely ill or your wife is in labor.

 

[BKN]

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

I wish! MD 1975, Were you born then?

http://www.ttuhsc.edu/elpaso/som/em/pdirect.aspx

 

[Blade28]

See this is weird - maybe it's just the culture of surgery, but the saying here goes, there are only two reasons you'd call in sick, and both involve something growing inside you...either a tumor or a fetus!

 

[Blade28]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

No, he's not.

You know, a friend's wedding is important but you'll attend many of them in your lifetime...sometimes you just can't take time off from work.

Now a brother or sister's wedding, that's a little different. Or if you were the best man in a wedding.

 

[ElZorro]

yeah sometimes we dont get want we want. sometimes we cant get that perfect job, get the right amount of days off, etc. But at the very least you should be able to attend your good friends wedding. thats a minimum.. cmon. thats a requirement or at least should be.


and chiefs will do whats good for them not you.. remember that..

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

Not so much that early in his career (assistant PD I believe) but should be pointed out he is EM- so days off are a little easier to come by. Yet another reason why it is the best specialty

 

[Telemachus]

As hard to believe as this may seem, I assure you it is true:

Unless you are one of the two people getting married, your presence at the wedding is not required. It can and will go on without you.


DO NOT LIE. Be aggressive, be direct, be tenacious, but be HONEST.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Most people I know send out "Save the Date" type stuff 6-8 months in advance while a formal invitation gets sent out within 6-8 weeks of the event.

Who is this BKN fellow?

 

[lvspro]

I'm an incoming intern, and need a couple of days off for my OWN wedding on Aug 27. I let them know in April that I needed that DAY, allow me to reiterate to emphasize that I didn't ask for a week... ONE DAY for my own wedding. The response "We're sorry, but the schedule has been made. Maybe if you'd of let us know in a timely manner..." So I'm gonna try to find someone to switch with.

 

[Gauss]

I'm an incoming intern, and need a couple of days off for my OWN wedding on Aug 27. I let them know in April that I needed that DAY, allow me to reiterate to emphasize that I didn't ask for a week... ONE DAY for my own wedding. The response "We're sorry, but the schedule has been made. Maybe if you'd of let us know in a timely manner..." So I'm gonna try to find someone to switch with.

I would go above the chiefs here and go directly to the PD. That's just plain ridiculous

 

[DrQuinn]

As the current (and first) chief resident of my program, I know a LOT about scheduling. If I found out that one of my interns/residents lied to me about taking a certain day off, I would be absolutely livid. I go out of my way to make sure that everyone is happy with the schedule and gets their requests off. I have bent over backwards this entire year for this, and because of that, have been able to give everyone their requested time off. Absolutely EVERYONE. Because of that, if someone lied for any reason, that would basically be the kiss of death for them in regards to future scheduling, and I would report them to the nearest ethics committee (i.e. my PD). You are a professional (actually since you started med school you could consider yourself one).

I start my "real job" in a bit over a month. I would not even think of lying to my medical director about scheduling. It would probably lead to immediate termination!

Q

 

[Bevo]

don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I guess my question is under this topic.

i am planning to start my intern year next summer. I believe most residencies start in late june/july?

My brother just got engaged and is planning on having his wedding (well his fiance is planning everything) for their first date anniverssary, which is the last weekend of July.

I know this is way ahead of time, but would I be able to request like a day off if need be after I find out where i match to arrange it for me to attend his wedding?

 

[Solideliquid]

don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I guess my question is under this topic.

i am planning to start my intern year next summer. I believe most residencies start in late june/july?

My brother just got engaged and is planning on having his wedding (well his fiance is planning everything) for their first date anniverssary, which is the last weekend of July.

I know this is way ahead of time, but would I be able to request like a day off if need be after I find out where i match to arrange it for me to attend his wedding?

You may get the day off or you may not. July is a tough month for everyone as new interns are starting all over the country. Don't be surprised if you can't get the day off. I think it also depends on what specialty you are going into.

 

[BKN]

I'm an incoming intern, and need a couple of days off for my OWN wedding on Aug 27. I let them know in April that I needed that DAY, allow me to reiterate to emphasize that I didn't ask for a week... ONE DAY for my own wedding. The response "We're sorry, but the schedule has been made. Maybe if you'd of let us know in a timely manner..." So I'm gonna try to find someone to switch with.

Well actually Tele is wrong, the bride and groom are not always required. Maybe you could go with a surrogate wedding. . .Jeez, it was just a joke.

Seriously, see your Chair or your PD. There's no way that they wouldn't do this for you.

 

[Flopotomist]

I bet you any amount of money that you are still really early in yoru career.

I totally will take you up on this bet - do you have paypal?

 

[lvspro]

Well actually Tele is wrong, the bride and groom are not always required. Maybe you could go with a surrogate wedding. . .Jeez, it was just a joke.

Seriously, see your Chair or your PD. There's no way that they wouldn't do this for you.

Gauss, and BKN.
Well, I'm in a categorical anesthesia program where you serve as an IM prelim for you intern year. I just got done e-mailing them to request that my schedule be arranged such that my normal days off will be condensed into a super-golden weekend... so-to-speak. I'm hoping to get aug 26-28 off for my aug 27 wedding. I've alread accepted the fact that I won't be going on a honeymoon until October, but at least I'll be getting away to somewhere warm when it starts to cool off around here. Besides, I couldn't forgive myself if I screwed the other interns.
Getting back to the point... if they don't give me this weekend because I am the stepchild of categorical IM interns, then I'll have to call my PD, and see what he has to say. BTW, our program generates a ton of $$ so we'll see what the pill-pushers have to say when/if they get a call from him.
If that doesn't work, I've found that blunt force trauma has a way of getting things done that verbal negotiations fail at. J/K.

 

[sblau001]

Wow. I love this thread. Brings back good memories from my intern year. (I hope you all caught the sarcasm in that statement.) From my own experiences, I think it is entirely program and chief dependent. I was in a surgery program which would not give me off Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. Mind you, I'm an orthodox Jew, so this was really cruel (especially given the fact that it was on a weekend). Furthermore, the program refused to administer the ABSITE exam to me on any other day besides Saturday. Being Sabbath observant, I can only write on Saturday when it is for patient care. This was a matter which I took straight to the PD, who asked me what other Sabbath observant residents in surgery do. Having spoken to almost every orthodox surgery resident in the country prior to approaching him, I informed him that all of their programs, bar none, had arranged for them to take the exam on Friday or Sunday instead. He shrugged and told me that they would not be able to accomadate.

At this time, I had no choice but to secure a civil-rights attorney (one of the best in the country actually). Of course, I was unable to take the ABSITE exam, but by then I had already decided to leave surgery altogether. To this day, I don't think the program knows how close they were to having a serious law suit filed against them. Don't get me wrong. I am the last person in the world to ever get riled up about something, but there is no question that we are living in a day and age where more tolerance is expected, especially when it doesn't involve a lot of effort. I would not recommend sueing one's program over just anything.

Ok. Sorry for going off like that, but the point I wanted to make is that there are plenty of programs out there who couldn't care less about their residents. And if someone's in a program like that, you're just going to have to suck it up and get through it.

As far as weddings go, I have to agree with the previous posts that you have to realize, as a resident, you unfortunately will not be able to attend every friend's wedding. That's the nature of our job, for better or worse. (Although for a program to not give someone a few days off for their own wedding is just ridiculous.)

I would also agree that lying is a bad precedent. Sure the program might say no, and if they do, so be it. But honesty IS the best policy, even if it means getting screwed once in a while.

 

[mysophobe]

****, as a fellow Jew, I would have sued them anyway.

 

[Bevo]

same, had a similar issue at Ross where one of our 3 exams was to be on Yum Kippur. The school would not accomodate us at first until 2 professors intervened. We eventually were allowed to have our next 2 tests count for our grade only and not be penalized.


I'm a FMG? (american foreign trained) going for radiology.

Guess I'll have to speak to my brother about this and see if he can talk his fiance into having the wedding in June.

 

[EctopicFetus]

This is very program dependant. Friends on mine couples matched one into IM and one into Rad Onc and they already scheduled their wedding. Both of their programs accomodated them..

 

[Poety]

Not so much that early in his career (assistant PD I believe) but should be pointed out he is EM- so days off are a little easier to come by. Yet another reason why it is the best specialty

What are you talking about? He was the CHAIRMAN and PROGRAM DIRECTOR he's got more than 20 YEARS pfffffffft FAR from an assistant PD

 

[JackBauERfan]

Wow. I love this thread. Brings back good memories from my intern year. (I hope you all caught the sarcasm in that statement.) From my own experiences, I think it is entirely program and chief dependent. I was in a surgery program which would not give me off Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. Mind you, I'm an orthodox Jew, so this was really cruel (especially given the fact that it was on a weekend). Furthermore, the program refused to administer the ABSITE exam to me on any other day besides Saturday. Being Sabbath observant, I can only write on Saturday when it is for patient care. This was a matter which I took straight to the PD, who asked me what other Sabbath observant residents in surgery do. Having spoken to almost every orthodox surgery resident in the country prior to approaching him, I informed him that all of their programs, bar none, had arranged for them to take the exam on Friday or Sunday instead. He shrugged and told me that they would not be able to accomadate.

At this time, I had no choice but to secure a civil-rights attorney (one of the best in the country actually). Of course, I was unable to take the ABSITE exam, but by then I had already decided to leave surgery altogether. To this day, I don't think the program knows how close they were to having a serious law suit filed against them. Don't get me wrong. I am the last person in the world to ever get riled up about something, but there is no question that we are living in a day and age where more tolerance is expected, especially when it doesn't involve a lot of effort. I would not recommend sueing one's program over just anything.

Ok. Sorry for going off like that, but the point I wanted to make is that there are plenty of programs out there who couldn't care less about their residents. And if someone's in a program like that, you're just going to have to suck it up and get through it.

As far as weddings go, I have to agree with the previous posts that you have to realize, as a resident, you unfortunately will not be able to attend every friend's wedding. That's the nature of our job, for better or worse. (Although for a program to not give someone a few days off for their own wedding is just ridiculous.)

I would also agree that lying is a bad precedent. Sure the program might say no, and if they do, so be it. But honesty IS the best policy, even if it means getting screwed once in a while.

I'm not Jewish, but I agree with myosphobe. I usually am not law suit happy, but I just don't see how a program can't accomodate ANY religeous day (and its not like you were asking for months off at a time). Maybe they were just too lazy to check into how to make the test available to you on other days...

And just to say what everyone is saying again, telling the truth may not always get what you want, but it is always the best way to go!

 

[stephend7799]

I'm an incoming intern, and need a couple of days off for my OWN wedding on Aug 27. I let them know in April that I needed that DAY, allow me to reiterate to emphasize that I didn't ask for a week... ONE DAY for my own wedding. The response "We're sorry, but the schedule has been made. Maybe if you'd of let us know in a timely manner..." So I'm gonna try to find someone to switch with.

i would just not show up for few days and screw them.. thats what they get for trying to screw with peoples lives.. just say you had food poisoning and were vomiting profusely.. cant take an h and p or write orders while vomiting.. ... bad form.... whats the worse they can do? fire you? if you have a union they can take it up with the union lawyer..

 

[BKN]

i would just not show up for few days and screw them.. thats what they get for trying to screw with peoples lives.. just say you had food poisoning and were vomiting profusely.. cant take an h and p or write orders while vomiting.. ... bad form.... whats the worse they can do? fire you? if you have a union they can take it up with the union lawyer..

lvspro,

This is incredibly bad advice.