What's the hospital term for "Going Postal"?

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medicinesux

medicinesux

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A Yale doctor was gunned down today by a former colleague in front of his pregnant wife. Apparently this was over a dispute they had in the ICU several years back when the victim chewed out the gunman in front of the staff.


http://bit.ly/9ux9i7



BRANFORD, Conn. -- An employee at a hospital in New York says a man charged with killing a Yale University doctor outside his Connecticut home had a confrontation with the victim a few years ago.
Branford police say 44-year-old Lishan Wang is charged with murder, attempted murder and firearms offenses in the fatal shooting Monday of Vajinder Toor outside Toor's home.
A hospital employee told The Associated Press that Wang and Toor were involved in a confrontation a few years ago at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center after Wang left his post at the intensive care unit and was not reachable for a few hours. The employee said Toor reprimanded him and that Wang threatened Toor in front of other employees.
The employee spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing murder investigation.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
BRANFORD, Conn. (AP) - Police say a man charged with killing a Yale University doctor outside his Connecticut home is a Chinese citizen last known to be living in Georgia.
Branford police say 44-year-old Lishan Wang is charged with murder, attempted murder and firearms offenses in the fatal shooting Monday of Vajinder Toor outside Toor's home.
Police say Wang also fired at Toor's pregnant wife, but she was not struck.
Wang, from Beijing, was last known to be living in Marietta, Ga.
Police said he is believed to have known Toor from their time working at the same New York hospital. A motive has not been disclosed. Police say the shooting was not random or connected with Toor's job at Yale.
 
🙁

The story has been updated:

Police: Former colleague kills Yale doctor at home
By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN
The Associated Press
Monday, April 26, 2010; 6:21 PM

BRANFORD, Conn. -- A doctor was charged Monday with fatally shooting a Yale University doctor and firing at the victim's pregnant wife after a history of confrontations with the victim and other colleagues that led to his dismissal from a New York hospital.

Branford police said 44-year-old Lishan Wang is charged with murder, attempted murder and firearms offenses in the fatal shooting Monday of Vajinder Toor outside his home. Police say Wang, a Chinese citizen from Beijing who was last known to be living in Marietta, Ga., also fired at Toor's wife, but she was not struck.

Wang is being held on $2 million bond. A message was left with an attorney representing him in a civil lawsuit.

Toor worked at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center in New York before joining Yale. Police are investigating whether Toor and the gunman had a dispute on the job, using information provided by the victim's wife, said Lt. Geoffrey Morgan.

"We're following a hypothesis that the victim and the assailant had some sort of negative interaction at a previous employer," Morgan said, adding that police do not expect to make additional arrests.

Wang and Toor were involved in a confrontation a few years ago at Kingsbrook after Wang left his post at the intensive care unit and was not reachable for a few hours, according to a hospital employee who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing murder investigation. The employee said Toor reprimanded him and that Wang threatened Toor in front of other employees.

Wang filed a federal discrimination lawsuit last year against the hospital. He talks about a heated exchange with his supervisor in the hospital's residency program, "Dr. Vajinder," in May, 2008 after Vajinder accused him of ignoring pages and calls from hospital staff.

"An hour after this heated discussion, Dr. Vajinder then accused Dr. Wang of threatening his safety by using hostile body language, although he did not summon security to assist him," Wang's lawsuit states.

It is one of several allegations of anger and behavioral problems that Wang acknowledges he was cited for while in the program. In the lawsuit, he said he was unfairly labeled excitable, emotional and unable to control his anger.

Wang was suspended with pay on May 22, 2008, and notified by letter that the hospital had decided to propose firing him. He was told by the union that the hospital would only allow him to remain employed if he sought disability leave for mental impairment. He was fired in July.

On Monday, Toor was walking in the parking lot toward his car at Meadows condominiums, miles from the Ivy League campus, shortly before 8 a.m. when he was shot multiple times.

Wang was taken into custody on a traffic stop nearby after residents provided police with details about the suspect and his vehicle, police said.

Toor was a postdoctoral fellow at the Yale School of Medicine who was working with the infectious disease section of Yale-New Haven Hospital.

Yale Police Chief James Perrotti sent an e-mail to the university community - which was shaken in recent months by the killing of a graduate student in her lab building - saying Branford police told him the crime was not a random act and was unrelated to Yale.

Hersh Arora, a neighbor and family friend, said Toor's wife, Parneeta, had just waved goodbye to her husband and closed the door when she heard gunshots and ran outside. She saw her husband lying on the ground, saw a man with a gun and asked what he was doing.

The man started firing at her, so she hid behind a car, Arora said. A neighbor tried to perform CPR on Toor, Arora said.

The couple have a 3-year old-son, and Parneeta is five months pregnant, Arora said.

"She can't even cry in front of the kid," Arora said. "She's trying to be brave."

Wang's lawsuit claims injuries resulting from discrimination based on race, national origin and disability, and accuses the hospital of retaliation against him for investigating, disclosing and opposing the discrimination.

Wang disputes evaluations by human resources staff at Kingsbrook that he had behavioral problems and anger issues, saying he received favorable evaluations.

"Additionally, during the time period when some of his supervisors and KJMC Human Resources began to falsely characterize Dr. Wang as mentally impaired and suffering from 'anger' issues, Dr. Wang scored well on the "interpersonal skills sections of his evaluations with no mention of emotional or anger-related problems," the lawsuit states.

Another doctor, Dr. Gealda Xavier, claimed Wang had yelled at her during a phone call. Wang responded by accusing the hospital of racism.

"Dr. Xavier is not Chinese and Dr. Wang had previously complained to his supervisors that she had treated him in a rude and abusive manner. Nothing was done to address Dr. Wang's complaint. However, the committee sided with Dr. Xavier, who is not Chinese, and inappropriately attributed the perceived problems with Dr. Wang's behavior to unspecified 'family problems," the lawsuit states.

---
Associated Press writer Stephanie Reitz and Pat Eaton-Robb in Hartford contributed to this report
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By colleague, I assume the perp was another physician at the hospital. I find it odd the article didn't refer to him as a doctor a single time.
 
From my reading of the article- and there are so many details that need to be filled in- I gather this was more someone who was unprepared for the cultural isolation and as such *perceived* every rightful reprimand as "racist" or "hostile".
 
"Wang disputes evaluations by human resources staff at Kingsbrook that he had behavioral problems and anger issues, saying he received favorable evaluations. "

And then he goes and guns the guy down? Sounds like behavioral problems and anger issues to me.

Very sad and ridiculous how crazy people can be 🙁
 
southerndoc said:
That's sad. It sounds like the guy was mentally unstable.
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Pretty clearly. The reported slights happened more than 2 years ago while (from what I can gather from the updated NYT story) the shooter was an intern in the ICU who walked off the unit without telling anybody and didn't answer pages for a few hours and the guy he killed was his supervising resident who (rightfully) lit into him when he returned.

The amazing thing is that the shooter (Wang) was fired from his residency in 2008 and he tracked down his old resident and shot him. That clearly shows, if nothing else, problems with anger control.
 
So sad. It was a work place dispute. ...much like the Annie Le case was purported to be. My heart goes out to his family.
 
gutonc said:
Pretty clearly. The reported slights happened more than 2 years ago while (from what I can gather from the updated NYT story) the shooter was an intern in the ICU who walked off the unit without telling anybody and didn't answer pages for a few hours and the guy he killed was his supervising resident who (rightfully) lit into him when he returned.

The amazing thing is that the shooter (Wang) was fired from his residency in 2008 and he tracked down his old resident and shot him. That clearly shows, if nothing else, problems with anger control.
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Thanks for mentioning the NYT article.

Although he got fired from his residency 2 years ago.. there was an ongoing lawsuit (that he initiated) that kept his rage burning in the mean time.

What possible reason did this guy have to disappear from his duty in the ICU and not answer his pager for hours afterward? That is totally inappropriate.

I feel so sad for his wife, I don't know why but the details of the actual shooting made me really distraught (from the previous article I quoted).

Yale Medical Researcher Fatally Shot Outside Home
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
April 26, 2010

BRANFORD, Conn. — A doctor was charged on Monday with fatally shooting a former colleague who was doing postdoctoral work at the Yale School of Medicine and with firing at the victim's pregnant wife.

The suspect had a history of confrontations with the victim and other colleagues that led to his firing from a Brooklyn hospital, the authorities said.

The police here said the suspect, Dr. Lishan Wang, 44, was charged in the killing of his former colleague, Dr. Vajinder Toor, outside Dr. Toor's residence on Monday morning. The police said Dr. Wang, a Chinese citizen from Beijing who has lived in Marietta, Ga., also fired at Dr. Toor's wife, but she was not wounded. Dr. Wang has been charged with murder, attempted murder and firearms offenses.

Dr. Toor was walking in the parking lot toward his car at the Meadows condominiums, shortly before 8 a.m. when he was shot several times.

Dr. Wang was arrested after witnesses to the shooting provided the police with details about the assailant and his vehicle, police said.

Dr. Toor was a postdoctoral fellow at the Yale School of Medicine who was working with the infectious-disease section of Yale-New Haven Hospital.

Chief James Perrotti of the Yale University Police Department said in an e-mail message to the university community — which was shaken by the killing of a graduate student in a lab building in September — that Branford police had told him the killing was not a random act and was not related to Yale.

Dr. Wang was being held in $2 million bail. A message left with a lawyer representing him in a civil lawsuit was not immediately returned.

Dr. Toor worked at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center in Brooklyn before joining Yale. "We're following a hypothesis that the victim and the assailant had some sort of negative interaction at a previous employer," Lt. Geoffrey Morgan of the Branford police said.

Lieutenant Morgan said the police did not expect to make additional arrests.

Dr. Wang, who also worked at Kingsbrook, filed a federal discrimination lawsuit last year against the hospital. In it, he referred to a heated exchange in May 2008 with his supervisor in the hospital's residency program, a man identified in the suit at "Dr. Vajinder." The suit says "Dr. Vajinder" accused Dr. Wang of ignoring pages and calls from the hospital staff.

"An hour after this heated discussion, Dr. Vajinder then accused Dr. Wang of threatening his safety by using hostile body language, although he did not summon security to assist him," Dr. Wang's lawsuit says.

It is one of several accusations of anger and behavioral problems that Dr. Wang acknowledges he was cited for at Kingsbrook. In the lawsuit, he said he was unfairly labeled excitable, emotional and unable to control his anger.

Dr. Wang was suspended with pay on May 22, 2008, and notified by letter that the hospital had decided to propose firing him. He was told by the union that the hospital would allow him to remain employed only if he sought disability leave for mental impairment. He was fired in July.
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Speculatrix said:
Is this the hospital across from SUNY Downstate?
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No, that's probably SUNY Downstate Medical Center you're thinking of, or Kings County Medical Center.

They came out of Kingsbrook Medical Center - still not terribly far from Downstate.

Everything in Brooklyn has "Kings" in the name - it's awfully confusing 😀
 
and yet there is more-

"Dr. Wang, an unemployed father of three who had been living in Marietta, Ga., had tracked down Dr. Toor with the aid of Google maps. Evidence suggested that Dr. Toor might not have been the only intended victim. According to the police report, officers found in Dr. Wang's car two printouts of information about doctors who were also in his residency program when he was dismissed, along with 1,000 rounds of ammunition, three handguns, a hammer, a knife and a picture of Dr. Toor."

Lieutenant Morgan said the evidence seemed to show that "this certainly stems from workplace violence."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/nyregion/28yale.html
 
medicinesux,

If you don't mind I'm going to quote the entire article here for context. By the way, do you have an opinion on all this?

Suspect Is Arraigned in Killing of Yale Researcher
By LIZ ROBBINS
Published: April 27, 2010

A doctor who had been fired two years ago from a Brooklyn hospital after a confrontation with a supervisor was arraigned Tuesday on charges that he had murdered that same supervisor in Branford, Conn., on Monday morning.

The suspect, Lishan Wang, 44, shot Dr. Vajinder Pal Toor, 34, five times Monday morning in the parking lot of Dr. Toor’s condominium complex, the assistant United States attorney Devant Joiner said at the arraignment at New Haven Superior Court.

Dr. Wang, an unemployed father of three who had been living in Marietta, Ga., had tracked down Dr. Toor with the aid of Google maps. Evidence suggested that Dr. Toor might not have been the only intended victim. According to the police report, officers found in Dr. Wang’s car two printouts of information about doctors who were also in his residency program when he was dismissed, along with 1,000 rounds of ammunition, three handguns, a hammer, a knife and a picture of Dr. Toor.

Tuesday afternoon, Dr. Wang was led in to the court by United States marshals. He wore a navy blazer over a white jumpsuit; his head was bowed and ankles shackled.

Dr. Wang, who is a Chinese national from Beijing, stood with a Mandarin interpreter and two public defenders. He was charged with murder and illegal possession and discharge of weapons, but did not enter a plea. Judge Roland Fasano of the New Haven Superior Court set bail at $2 million and set a hearing for May 11.

Police found shell casings at the crime scene — that matched at least one of the guns they had recovered in the suspect’s maroon minivan. Mr. Toor’s wife, Parneeta Sidhu, who is pregnant, had rushed out to Dr. Toor upon hearing the shots; the suspect also fired at her but missed, the police said. The couple, according to news reports, had a 3-year-old child.

Dr. Toor, a postdoctoral fellow in infectious disease at Yale-New Haven Hospital, had previously been the chief resident for the Department of Medicine at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center in East Flatbush, Brooklyn.
Dr. Wang had filed a wrongful termination lawsuit last July against the medical center, claiming that he was terminated in May 2008 because of his Chinese nationality and that several doctors who were Indian had mistreated him and other Chinese residents.

The suit singled out Dr. Toor, specifically after Dr. Toor had chastised Dr. Wang for not answering repeated pages one day. That led to a confrontation in which Dr. Toor informed hospital officials Dr. Wang had threatened him.

“We’re fairly satisfied that this was an act directed by Mr. Wang exclusively by himself towards Dr. Toor,” said Lt. Geoffrey Morgan, a public information officer for the Branford Police Department. “We have no indication from any eyewitnesses that there was anyone at all working in concert aiding Mr. Wang in this assault.”

Lieutenant Morgan said the evidence seemed to show that “this certainly stems from workplace violence.”

The Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center said in court documents that Dr. Wang had “acted in an abusive manner towards Dr. Toor.”

A week after the confrontation with Dr. Toor, Dr. Wang was suspended. On May 22, 2008, the hospital terminated him.

Dr. Wang did not attend a hearing to contest the termination, according to his union, the Committee of Interns and Residents. He did complain to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, but in May 2009, the commission dismissed Dr. Wang’s claims of discrimination. He filed his lawsuit against the hospital two months later.

Christine Rodriguez, Dr. Wang’s lawyer in the civil case, said that action was continuing, but that she was not representing him in the criminal charges.

“I am deeply saddened by the tragic turn of events that took place yesterday near Yale. My heartfelt condolences go out to Dr. Toor’s family and to Dr. Wang’s wife and three children,” Ms. Rodriguez said in a statement.

Employees at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center were instructed on Tuesday not to speak about Dr. Wang or Dr. Toor. One employee who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the restriction said that Dr. Wang’s behavior was “erratic” and confirmed that Dr. Toor had felt threatened by Dr. Wang.

The employee said that Dr. Wang was intelligent and “could be quite charming,” but that there were also many complaints about him.

In the lawsuit, Dr. Wang said that he had been “unfairly labeled as ‘excitable,’ ‘emotional,’ and unable to ‘control his anger.’ ”

The shooting in suburban New Haven occurred seven months after Annie Le, a graduate student at a Yale University research laboratory, was murdered by a co-worker.

Toby Lyles and Karen Zraick contributed reporting from New York, and Robert Davey from New Haven.
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My opinion? Well, when you take someone who has psychotic tendencies (and medicine is full of these people, ok maybe not to the extreme as this guy, but still...) and subject that person to a toxic stressful environment (being in residency at an inner city hospital and throwing in an ICU rotation to boot) and then strip that person of their entire livelihood which they worked their entire lives for (as Mr. Wang viewed it), you lay the framework for a potentially senseless volatile act to occur. It's kind of like taking sodium and water and mixing them together- harmless alone but when they combine, you get quite a reaction. Workplace violence at it's finest indeed. Completely senseless from so many angles. A tragedy that should never have happened.
 
I am not sure the guy was mentally unstable, depending on what you mean by "unstable." It is easy to blame horrible actions on irrational behavior, but why couldn't this have been a rational decision, by a destroyed man? Did he have to be psychotic to carry out the murder? It certainly didn't just happen on a whim.

From what I gather, without being a psychologist, proud and insecure people are more likely to bear grudges and feel resentment.

Not-so-proud persons are able to move on, and do not weigh the benefits of one moment of vengeance as strong enough to justify a death sentence, lifetime in prison, loss of family contact and so on. And even, in the perp's case, seemingly even justifying the initial treatment to the surroundings.

That is the problem with such allegations. You can't correct it. It is a catch 22. If you retaliate, it only reinforces the original claims. Staying positive is unlikely to win the ones giving you hate over, and staying positive in itself is hard, when you are subject to daily stress and negative feedback.

I am surprised there aren't more killings like this, given how many are given the boot. I resent the fact that all people are gonna think is "wow, what a sick mother f****," and then forget about how ALL residents are held at gun-point. The whole story is appalling.
 
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Many Chinese (not Chinese American) residents often get torn apart by attendings, other residents, and even nurses. The language and cultural barrier really hinders their productivity, and they get the full brunt of the team's frustrations.
I'm not gonna say that I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, but I can definitely see why they did it, and what drove their actions.

I definitely agree with Integrity's assessment of residents being held at gun point. When you've worked your entire life for a goal, while stacking up a crippling amount of debt that you can only repay if you reach said goal, it can definitely be enough to unravel even the strongest of personalities.
 
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bronx43 said:
Many Chinese (not Chinese American) residents often get torn apart by attendings, other residents, and even nurses. The language and cultural barrier really hinders their productivity, and they get the full brunt of the team's frustrations.
I'm not gonna say that I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, but I can definitely see why they did it, and what drove their actions.

I definitely agree with Integrity's assessment of residents being held at gun point. When you've worked your entire life for a goal, while stacking up a crippling amount of debt that you can only repay if you reach said goal, it can definitely be enough to unravel even the strongest of personalities.
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In terms of the language part of "language and cultural barrier" anyone wishing to practice medicine in the US should be proficient in English. In this case, some of the legal proceedings were delayed because a Mandarin interpreter had to be brought in.
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/04/27/news/doc4bd70affb093a231695792.txt
 
Integrity said:
I am not sure the guy was mentally unstable, depending on what you mean by "unstable." It is easy to blame horrible actions on irrational behavior, but why couldn't this have been a rational decision, by a destroyed man? Did he have to be psychotic to carry out the murder? It certainly didn't just happen on a whim.

From what I gather, without being a psychologist, proud and insecure people are more likely to bear grudges and feel resentment.

Not-so-proud persons are able to move on, and do not weigh the benefits of one moment of vengeance as strong enough to justify a death sentence, lifetime in prison, loss of family contact and so on. And even, in the perp's case, seemingly even justifying the initial treatment to the surroundings.

That is the problem with such allegations. You can't correct it. It is a catch 22. If you retaliate, it only reinforces the original claims. Staying positive is unlikely to win the ones giving you hate over, and staying positive in itself is hard, when you are subject to daily stress and negative feedback.

I am surprised there aren't more killings like this, given how many are given the boot. I resent the fact that all people are gonna think is "wow, what a sick mother f****," and then forget about how ALL residents are held at gun-point. The whole story is appalling.
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I concur with Integrity's post wholeheartedly, and admire his courage to state his beliefs rather than going with the PC route of just dismissing the actions of the perpetrator as those of a mentally unstable person. In fact, as a psychiatry resident. I can tell you there is no clear link between homicide and mental illness. On the other hand, suicide is clearly linked to mental illness. The fact that the perp didn't kill himself, was married, had children, and the targeted nature of his crime all argue against mental illness. This individual had clearly lost perspective, and after many years of sacrifice and hard work in an alien land, felt that he was being denied the fruits of his labor through what he viewed as the vindicative, unjust, and evil actions of his superiors. His seething hatred and thirst for vengeance blinded him to the horrible consequences for him and his family of commiting murder.

Again, none of us really know what happened two years ago that led to this present tragedy but I think that we all know by now that abuse and hazing of medical students and residents is essentially a rite of passage especially in certain specialties. IMGs, and especially those with accents and from foreign backgrounds, are even more vulnerable to such abuse and exploitation because they are perhaps seen as less able to fight back against unfair treatment. We should all be thankful that tragic incidents such as this one are rare, but that shouldn't dissuade us from addressing the powerless position of residents in the current system. If nurses, with many fewer years of education and training, can unionize, there is no reason for residents not being able to do the same.
 
zihuatanejo said:
I concur with Integrity's post wholeheartedly, and admire his courage to state his beliefs rather than going with the PC route of just dismissing the actions of the perpetrator as those of a mentally unstable person. In fact, as a psychiatry resident. I can tell you there is no clear link between homicide and mental illness. On the other hand, suicide is clearly linked to mental illness. The fact that the perp didn't kill himself, was married, had children, and the targeted nature of his crime all argue against mental illness. This individual had clearly lost perspective, and after many years of sacrifice and hard work in an alien land, felt that he was being denied the fruits of his labor through what he viewed as the vindicative, unjust, and evil actions of his superiors. His seething hatred and thirst for vengeance blinded him to the horrible consequences for him and his family of commiting murder.

Again, none of us really know what happened two years ago that led to this present tragedy but I think that we all know by now that abuse and hazing of medical students and residents is essentially a rite of passage especially in certain specialties. IMGs, and especially those with accents and from foreign backgrounds, are even more vulnerable to such abuse and exploitation because they are perhaps seen as less able to fight back against unfair treatment. We should all be thankful that tragic incidents such as this one are rare, but that shouldn't dissuade us from addressing the powerless position of residents in the current system. If nurses, with many fewer years of education and training, can unionize, there is no reason for residents not being able to do the same.
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Attendings can't even unionized, let alone residents. If anything is to be done about treatment of residents (which has improved in the last decade), the system has to be changed from within. Generally speaking, your superiors can make your life far more miserable than anyone outside the system.
 
medicinesux said:
A Yale doctor was gunned down today by a former colleague in front of his pregnant wife. Apparently this was over a dispute they had in the ICU several years back when the victim chewed out the gunman in front of the staff. Yale.
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I don't know if residency is getting more humane per se, I have seen a lot of really bad incidents of residents, and students, getting "chewed out." While the resident's actions were extreme, wouldn't it be a little late to develop an antisocial personality disorder?

There is some movie where there is a sargeant who is chewing out a private in the army, or something like that, and the private is pretty much harassed each day, he then gets a gun and considers killing the sargeant in front of everybody. It seems like that is what this guy was trying to do.

I guess what I am postulating is that everyone has their "breaking point" at which point in time you start fixating on revenge or "justice" against some who has been verbally abusive with you. Attendings who ball out residents likely have a habit of doing so and perhaps yelled at this resident on a daily basis or worse.

For some the breaking point of end result is apathy with medicine, others try to get into a different field, some file lawsuits against the attendings, and rarely some go after their abuser. I guess I am also surprised that it doesn't happen more frequently either.

We have all seen socipaths who are really bad to deal with, and some doctors are, such as those who molest their pediatric patients or who do other antisocial things, but I wonder if this wasn't some how more precipitated by an intense emotional exchange/battery where it would be classified otherwise? I.e. not all murderers are socipaths, such as battered women, soldiers in the military, self-defense, . . . because medicine is such a herculean effort in terms of putting other concerns aside, if you get fired it might considered the same as losing your life (for men at least) and perhaps could trigger a fight or flight response. Women's greatest fear is seeing a family member get sick, while men rank losing their job pretty high on the list . . .

You would almost expect to hear neighbors in the murderer's apartment talk about how nice and quiet he was and how he paid his last month's rent.

For every one of these disgruntled residents who decided to pull the trigger, there must be hundreds or thousands more who are still on the job and are "walking wounded". I think that residency training is getting worse in a way, or at least not improving, as there still can be heavy harassment on many different levels. You have to wonder what would make attendings act more like human beings in some cases.

In this case the doctor who was shot was 34, and the murderer was 44, so the victim was 31 or so when he a confrontation with his murderer? Maybe he was a chief resident or fellow at the time?

Any psychiatry input would be interesting to hear!

Very sad for his wife and children.
 
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DarthNeurology said:
There is some movie where there is a sargeant who is chewing out a private in the army, or something like that, and the private is pretty much harassed each day, he then gets a gun and considers killing the sargeant in front of everybody. It seems like that is what this guy was trying to do.
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Are you referring to Full Metal Jacket?
 
Is there any proof that this intern was NOT harassed and bullied by the senior residents and faculty prior to this episode?

Is there any way to suggest that the intern , on the day when 'he just left his desk for some hours' was so stressed out that he thought it was just best to not deal with patient care until he clears his mind?

I personally feel the buck stops at the program director and chairman of department ---who could let one of their intern's mental health destroyed and failed to ensure his mental well being? The senior faculty main perk of job cant be only providing sub contracted cheap labor to medicare.
 
DarthNeurology said:
I don't know if residency is getting more humane per se, I have seen a lot of really bad incidents of residents, and students, getting "chewed out." While the resident's actions were extreme, wouldn't it be a little late to develop an antisocial personality disorder?

There is some movie where there is a sargeant who is chewing out a private in the army, or something like that, and the private is pretty much harassed each day, he then gets a gun and considers killing the sargeant in front of everybody. It seems like that is what this guy was trying to do.

I guess what I am postulating is that everyone has their "breaking point" at which point in time you start fixating on revenge or "justice" against some who has been verbally abusive with you. Attendings who ball out residents likely have a habit of doing so and perhaps yelled at this resident on a daily basis or worse.

For some the breaking point of end result is apathy with medicine, others try to get into a different field, some file lawsuits against the attendings, and rarely some go after their abuser. I guess I am also surprised that it doesn't happen more frequently either.

We have all seen socipaths who are really bad to deal with, and some doctors are, such as those who molest their pediatric patients or who do other antisocial things, but I wonder if this wasn't some how more precipitated by an intense emotional exchange/battery where it would be classified otherwise? I.e. not all murderers are socipaths, such as battered women, soldiers in the military, self-defense, . . . because medicine is such a herculean effort in terms of putting other concerns aside, if you get fired it might considered the same as losing your life (for men at least) ...
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And women as well as there was a story recently about a professor (female) at UAB who also shot at colleagues at a faculty meeting because she was going to be passed over for tenure.
 
This is truly a tragic event. Two families are destroyed. If I were the wife, I would beg the prosecutor to use his powers to investigate a criminal homicide, to determine whether others committed a tort that led to the termination of the murderer of my husband. Nobody kills for no reason when you have a family to raise. The relation between the civil tort and the first degree murder is clear. If the prosecutor finds evidence of a civil tort, he could turn over the evidence to a civil attorney. The civil attorney could bring all the tortfeasors to justice and help provide for a family that has just lost its primary breadwinner. The possibility that the primary breadwinner was involved may serve to reduce the damages awarded but will not absolve the others of their participation.

If the tortfeasors covered up their actions, they turn what is likely a civil case into a criminal one. Nixon never did anything wrong until he tried to cover everything up in the face of a criminal investigation.


A doctor just died here. That's serious. I would not stop at just prosecuting the murderer, but would help bring all involved to justice.


The last big physician killer case involved an Army psychiatrist. The Army did not act wisely in trying to send a devout muslim to fight other muslims. The Army should have respected his conscientious objection to serving in such a theater. It forgot the lessons of WWII. It would have never sent Japanese Americans to fight Japanese, unless they showed a willingness to do so. Instead, the Army sent a Japanese unit to Europe. That unit holds the distinction of being the most decorated unit in the annals of American military history. The number of decorations may have been lower than deserved given pervasive discrimination common at that time. This psychiatrist could have served his country honorably in another theater but instead ended up killing his blood brothers, ending his career, and facing execution.


It really is easy to dismiss this murder as the act of a crazy individual. If we do nothing, the body count will just increase, the expectation damages will just continue, and nothing will change. I think physicians are able to change the system. They just do not want to. They think its fine the way it is. Ultimately, it will take lawyers to force the leaders of the profession to make just systemic changes that promote one of the core values of this profession, justice. The question is not if the profession will change, but rather at what cost in blood and silver.
 
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Agree to those that change is needed in the system.medicine is the only field that once a trainee got fired for whatever reason , there is almost no way to stay in the field.Fired trainee always be the one who got punished and it is impossible to reverse the fact even with a lawyer. Mr. Wang is not the only one who got fired, a surgical resident At JHS was fired not too long ago and was portraited as a mental case by the involved party. These tragedies will happen again and again till ppl are willing to face and deal with it.
 
I'm Chinese and my mom just told me about this story (she's a physician as well). I think there's certain Asian rivalries that immigrants bring to this country. My mom used to always tell me about her Indian supervisor who always denied her raises and kept her as the lowest paid person on the team, despite the fact that she was doing the most work. She got out of there once she found out how much her colleagues were making, but that experience definitely left a bad taste.

I think that the nationalistic tension between Chinese and Indians and extremely stressful work and family situations are the reasons behind this. Of course, that doesn't excuse what Dr. Wang did. I really feel for both families.
 
bomgd3 said:
I'm Chinese and my mom just told me about this story (she's a physician as well). I think there's certain Asian rivalries that immigrants bring to this country. My mom used to always tell me about her Indian supervisor who always denied her raises and kept her as the lowest paid person on the team, despite the fact that she was doing the most work. She got out of there once she found out how much her colleagues were making, but that experience definitely left a bad taste.

I think that the nationalistic tension between Chinese and Indians and extremely stressful work and family situations are the reasons behind this. Of course, that doesn't excuse what Dr. Wang did. I really feel for both families.
Click to expand...

You make a very important point and thanks for bringing that up.

It was also noted in the article that the chinese resident had referred to his upper level by racial epithets directed against Indians. This perhaps underscores the cultural issues for foreign-born/foreign-trained IMGs pursuing residency here who may not previously have been exposed to a pluralistic culture such as here in the States.

And adding anger management problems and a victim mentality to the situation make for a disastrous outcome.
 
The killer is screwed. He was screwed before being a killer. However, being screwed in jail is worst than being screwed in life so even if he was cold blooded, he shouldn't have done it.

That's the trouble with residency. It doesn't happen that much percentage wise but it does happen regularly. People get screwed after going to medical school and slaving through residency. Some faculty will even fabricate stuff. Other times, they'll use their power for personal enjoyment. I know one not very good resident who was going to be fired but she let the chairman do her and he then let her finish. This is not her fault...if a chairman want to do me in the *** or get fired, I would hate to do either. Since you could get AIDS from the former, I'd decline but then suffer careerwise.
 
Eta Carinae said:
. This perhaps underscores the cultural issues for foreign-born/foreign-trained IMGs pursuing residency here who may not previously have been exposed to a pluralistic culture such as here in the States.
.
Click to expand...

Not always true. I've heard American resident refer to African residents as monkeys. So much for pluralism.
 
These incidents might help residencies in a small way. It teaches those who got fired not to kill anyone. It also teaches the few faculty who fabricate complaints that they could be killed if they abuse people.

The old fashioned way was for the faculty to be compassionate and to help the resident, even if they needed to do an extra year of residency. However, now there's a lot of zero tolerance so we get these incidents. On the bright side, pyramidal programs are mostly a thing of the past (where they take 10 residents and can only finish 6) after the late 1990's.
 
Pickyournose said:
Not always true. I've heard American resident refer to African residents as monkeys. So much for pluralism.
Click to expand...
...and then go after them with guns?

In any case, "I've heard" ≠ it actually happened. Your anecdote lacks credibility.:laugh:
 
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Pickyournose said:
These incidents might help residencies in a small way. It teaches those who got fired not to kill anyone. It also teaches the few faculty who fabricate complaints that they could be killed if they abuse people.

The old fashioned way was for the faculty to be compassionate and to help the resident, even if they needed to do an extra year of residency. However, now there's a lot of zero tolerance so we get these incidents. On the bright side, pyramidal programs are mostly a thing of the past (where they take 10 residents and can only finish 6) after the late 1990's.
Click to expand...

😱

This has got to be the dumbest post ever in the history of SDN.

I'll chalk it up to amphetamines and/or EtOH and/or catecholamine reuptake inhibitors...it is Friday
 
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Pickyournose said:
The killer is screwed. He was screwed before being a killer. However, being screwed in jail is worst than being screwed in life so even if he was cold blooded, he shouldn't have done it.

That's the trouble with residency. It doesn't happen that much percentage wise but it does happen regularly. People get screwed after going to medical school and slaving through residency. Some faculty will even fabricate stuff. Other times, they'll use their power for personal enjoyment. I know one not very good resident who was going to be fired but she let the chairman do her and he then let her finish. This is not her fault...if a chairman want to do me in the *** or get fired, I would hate to do either. Since you could get AIDS from the former, I'd decline but then suffer careerwise.
Click to expand...

😱 😱 😱

Isn't this one of those posts that gets reported to law enforcement? Like real-life, non-cyber law enforcement?
 
My sypathies with Dr. Wang. I am the victim of the same situation and I know how sever it hurts. It paralyses you forever.
ANd these bastards decide your whole career in 10 min. and I guess if one think he is right should seek justice and should not compromise on the brutality of these crooks..
 
bronx43 said:
What would you report exactly?
Click to expand...

Exactly! I condemn murder. Not only is it wrong, but it doesn't help your career (unless your career is a hit man). I also condemn sexual harrassment. If a gay faculty member wanted to do me in the rectum in order not to unjustly fire me, I would refuse.
 
Roofie said:
It really is easy to dismiss this murder as the act of a crazy individual. If we do nothing, the body count will just increase, the expectation damages will just continue, and nothing will change. I think physicians are able to change the system. They just do not want to. They think its fine the way it is. Ultimately, it will take lawyers to force the leaders of the profession to make just systemic changes that promote one of the core values of this profession, justice. The question is not if the profession will change, but rather at what cost in blood and silver.
Click to expand...

Lawyers will not change the situation.

I have read of at least 2 residents who were fired and killed somebody in revenge.

When I was a first year resident, a professor forced me to write a letter saying how bad someone was. This is fabricating a case. I didn't want to be fired so I complied. The guy was a little weak but not so bad. I tried to hedge by making the letter only factual but I'm sure it was used to justify the case.

Usually, faculty just get other faculty to make up stuff. Usually, the resident is a little weak but often not the worse.

I can think of 6 residents who were unjustly fired and a few more that I suspect were unjustly fired. It's not so rare.
 
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