what's with al the IMG posts?

[Rads312]

Not trying to be a giant jerk so sorry if I come across as so -

Why the big influx of non us IMG's into the forum? I'm at a moderately competitive midwest program and we don't even entertain US Grad IMG's unless they crazy high scores or research -

Are there programs out there matching / interviewing foreign grads without citizenship?

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[Rads312]

excuse the typo. * all the IMG posts

 

[jfgavina]

May I ask you why are you so worried since you already secured a place?

Besides, would you prefer to work with an AMG that picked radiology as a 2nd or 3rd choice or because he thinks it will provide him a good "lifestyle" (like some of the posters in this forum) or w/ an IMG who is passionate about radiology? Just asking..

 

[PL198]

May I ask you why are you so worried since you already secured a place?

Besides, would you prefer to work with an AMG that picked radiology as a 2nd or 3rd choice or because he thinks it will provide him a good "lifestyle" (like some of the posters in this forum) or w/ an IMG who is passionate about radiology? Just asking..

caring about the field isn't the only thing that matters. the training is drastically different

 

[jfgavina]

caring about the field isn't the only thing that matters. the training is drastically different

That's why the steps exist so all the candidates can be compared, in a standardized way, to each other. What matters or not is up to the PDs, they choose amoung candidates. And plenty of IMGs (US, non-US) are picked instead of AMGs for a reason, and the reason is that PDs may want a candidate with specific characteristics. The reason may be some IMGs may be better than their AMG competitor. I believe you know many people graduated from top universities, with top scores who in the end revealed themselfes as terrible residents. PDs using their experience know who is a potential good resident or not. If you are a resident you don't have that know-how.
Back in my country we have a lot of candidates from eastern europe, spain, czech republic, italy and they only have to score more to get a place, no other factors come into the equation. We see it as healthy competition, the more the candidates are the better you must be.

I don't get these threads or posts like yours, if you are better than IMGs and PDs know it then why do you worry so much? Why don't you just shut down ECFMG so this problem doesn't even bother you anymore?

You should see a foreign, a neighbour or your brother that is competing with you as a reason for you to be better.

 

[Radz123]

The lower programs are interviewing FMG's. Many rather fill than scramble. Top programs will take a FMG if he's a complete stud.

 

[Rads312]

"That's why the steps exist so all the candidates can be compared, in a standardized way, to each other. What matters or not is up to the PDs, they choose amoung candidates. And plenty of IMGs (US, non-US) are picked instead of AMGs for a reason, and the reason is that PDs may want a candidate with specific characteristics."

Ummm - I hate to break your Belgian medical student dream sequence here, but the Steps don't exist for that reason. They exist to gauge the basic medical competency of american ( and other ) medical school graduates and their preparedness for residency training. That's it.

The PD's aren't stupid. They know a foreign graduate student curriculum is very much structured towards basically just scoring as highly as possible on the usmle ( let's be honest - both european / asian, and caribbean ) - that's why they will take an american grad with a 215 over you with a 250 any day of the week.

And yeah, I would VERY MUCH prefer an American graduate choosing radiology as a 2nd or 3rd choice compared to an IMG candidate - it's not even a comparison. THAT is why PD's at less competitive radiology programs choose to NOT FILL their programs every year and go to the scramble - as opposed to filling with FMG's.

Medical students in this country are burdened with hundreds of thousand of dollars of debt - and many score at or above average scores on their USMLE's - and are not competitive for radiology. Why should YOU get this position? No thanks.

 

[Rads312]

The lower programs are interviewing FMG's. Many rather fill than scramble. Top programs will take a FMG if he's a complete stud.

I don't buy that.

 

[Rads312]

"You should see a foreign, a neighbour or your brother that is competing with you as a reason for you to be better."

Dude. You can't even get your grammar correct. I don't need foreign competition for my radiology position. Go away. And yes, my entire family is immigrants - so no, I'm not racist.

 

[ertugrul]

Are there programs out there matching / interviewing foreign grads without citizenship?

Yes

 

[jfgavina]

"You should see a foreign, a neighbour or your brother that is competing with you as a reason for you to be better."

Dude. You can't even get your grammar correct. I don't need foreign competition for my radiology position. Go away. And yes, my entire family is immigrants - so no, I'm not racist.

my friend, I speak 4 languages. I can speak with 1 100 000 000 human beings without making them use a foreign language. What about you? I never lived in a english-speaking country so I think you could give me a break You should worry with the people from your own country that can't speak their native language.

But I know, when your arguments run out it is easy to insult the way other people write. You could have corrected me and insult me with some class

 

[jfgavina]

"That's why the steps exist so all the candidates can be compared, in a standardized way, to each other. What matters or not is up to the PDs, they choose amoung candidates. And plenty of IMGs (US, non-US) are picked instead of AMGs for a reason, and the reason is that PDs may want a candidate with specific characteristics."

Ummm - I hate to break your Belgian medical student dream sequence here, but the Steps don't exist for that reason. They exist to gauge the basic medical competency of american ( and other ) medical school graduates and their preparedness for residency training. That's it.

The PD's aren't stupid. They know a foreign graduate student curriculum is very much structured towards basically just scoring as highly as possible on the usmle ( let's be honest - both european / asian, and caribbean ) - that's why they will take an american grad with a 215 over you with a 250 any day of the week.

And yeah, I would VERY MUCH prefer an American graduate choosing radiology as a 2nd or 3rd choice compared to an IMG candidate - it's not even a comparison. THAT is why PD's at less competitive radiology programs choose to NOT FILL their programs every year and go to the scramble - as opposed to filling with FMG's.

Medical students in this country are burdened with hundreds of thousand of dollars of debt - and many score at or above average scores on their USMLE's - and are not competitive for radiology. Why should YOU get this position? No thanks.

Oh yeah? because that's not what charting outcomes are reporting. Your 215 made in america will not go through radiology residency

You are not a PD, so you don't decide. And I doubt you'll ever be with this sick atitude you have. PDs don't care if you have a debt or not, they care if you're good to fill the position. But I'm not explaining to you what PDs want, don't you have a paid tutor?

And I'm not belgian, though I like their chocolate and especially their beer

 

[Kazaki]

I'll do everyone a favour.
Don't feed the troll.

 

[jfgavina]

You tried to start a thread without looking a giant jerk but it took only 3 posts for you to reveal who you really are. Some people have a very thin layer of varnish ahah I suggest you to change your atitude, respect human beings wherever they come from. And if you're afraid just be better than them.

 

[PL198]

That's why the steps exist so all the candidates can be compared, in a standardized way, to each other. What matters or not is up to the PDs, they choose amoung candidates. And plenty of IMGs (US, non-US) are picked instead of AMGs for a reason, and the reason is that PDs may want a candidate with specific characteristics. The reason may be some IMGs may be better than their AMG competitor. I believe you know many people graduated from top universities, with top scores who in the end revealed themselfes as terrible residents. PDs using their experience know who is a potential good resident or not. If you are a resident you don't have that know-how.
Back in my country we have a lot of candidates from eastern europe, spain, czech republic, italy and they only have to score more to get a place, no other factors come into the equation. We see it as healthy competition, the more the candidates are the better you must be.

I don't get these threads or posts like yours, if you are better than IMGs and PDs know it then why do you worry so much? Why don't you just shut down ECFMG so this problem doesn't even bother you anymore?

You should see a foreign, a neighbour or your brother that is competing with you as a reason for you to be better.

drastically more AMG are picked over IMG. For a reason.

 

[tennischamp822]

...

 

[jfgavina]

drastically more AMG are picked over IMG. For a reason.

And I completely agree that it should be like that. But I also understand that some PDs may prefer an outstanding FMG, or an above-average FMG when they have only below-average AMGs applying.

 

[GadRads]

And I completely agree that it should be like that. But I also understand that some PDs may prefer an outstanding FMG, or an above-average FMG when they have only below-average AMGs applying.

Economically speaking, it makes sense to pick AMGs over FMGs. If AMGs couldn't match into residencies, a lot of medical school debt would go unpaid. This would ultimately negatively affect the US economy since these funds come from US banks and the federal government.

That said, there is always room for excellent FMGs. Many FMGs tend to go into primary care fields.

 

[qwerty89]

The reality is that having IMG (carib grads) and FMGs makes the program look bad, generally speaking.

Top programs may have an FMG here or there (never IMGs) but those are truly exceptional, having had multiple pubs in their home countries and amazing scores.

As a current resident I would prefer to have a lower scoring AMG as opposed to a higher scoring IMG/FMG as a co-resident. Sounds vain and it mainly is. Can the FMG/IMG do a good job? Of course. But when I'm working with my colleagues I would like to have more things in common which I won't get with most FMGs. As for the IMGs, it just makes the program look bad regardless. Be honest, when you were looking at programs those with residents from schools like (Duke, UCSF, Northwestern, WUSTL, etc) gave off a better first impression that those with residents from SGU. And I'm talking about equivalent tier programs here. The program (Emory comes to mind) that refuses to take IMG/FMG at the expense of not filling their seats in the initial match ends up looking better than one that does.

The same goes for DO candidates.

 

[RadioRads71]

The PD's aren't stupid. They know a foreign graduate student curriculum is very much structured towards basically just scoring as highly as possible on the usmle ( let's be honest - both european / asian, and caribbean ) - that's why they will take an american grad with a 215 over you with a 250 any day of the week.

This is the lamest statement I've ever heard. Is that what all the low scoring AMGs complain about? All the sweat shop FMGs/IMGs throwing off the curve with our vast array of exclusive USMLE knowledge?

 

[jfgavina]

The same goes for DO candidates.

Our friend here that started the thread is a DO

 

[Kazaki]

Our friend here that started the thread is a DO

That explains all the butthurt. He's really annoyed how radiology programs would much rather take IMG's than DO's.
Stop feeding this thread, he's a troll.

 

[PL198]

And I completely agree that it should be like that. But I also understand that some PDs may prefer an outstanding FMG, or an above-average FMG when they have only below-average AMGs applying.

absolutely, so do I

 

[Radz123]

I don't buy that.

You don't have to buy it. The NRMP supplies match data.

 

[plasmodium]

What a bitter thread.

 

[jfgavina]

new york has the trump tower, sdn's radiology forum has the trump thread =)

 

[knosway14]

"That's why the steps exist so all the candidates can be compared, in a standardized way, to each other. What matters or not is up to the PDs, they choose amoung candidates. And plenty of IMGs (US, non-US) are picked instead of AMGs for a reason, and the reason is that PDs may want a candidate with specific characteristics."

Ummm - I hate to break your Belgian medical student dream sequence here, but the Steps don't exist for that reason. They exist to gauge the basic medical competency of american ( and other ) medical school graduates and their preparedness for residency training. That's it.

The PD's aren't stupid. They know a foreign graduate student curriculum is very much structured towards basically just scoring as highly as possible on the usmle ( let's be honest - both european / asian, and caribbean ) - that's why they will take an american grad with a 215 over you with a 250 any day of the week.

And yeah, I would VERY MUCH prefer an American graduate choosing radiology as a 2nd or 3rd choice compared to an IMG candidate - it's not even a comparison. THAT is why PD's at less competitive radiology programs choose to NOT FILL their programs every year and go to the scramble - as opposed to filling with FMG's.

Medical students in this country are burdened with hundreds of thousand of dollars of debt - and many score at or above average scores on their USMLE's - and are not competitive for radiology. Why should YOU get this position? No thanks.

I think is maybe I little bit late for what I'm goint to tell you.
but if you spend more time studying for your USMLE exams (rather than posting here) you may have better chances of matching in your desired program.

 

[Rads312]

I think is maybe I little bit late for what I'm goint to tell you.
but if you spend more time studying for your USMLE exams (rather than posting here) you may have better chances of matching in your desired program.

Thank you for your advice.

If only I had a time machine , so I could go back all those years, take my USMLE's again, match again, and now be halfway through my #1 ranked program again. Oh wait. No I don't. that doesn't make any sense.