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What's WRONG with premed women????

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Nanon

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Ok, so I myself am a premed woman, but really...

I've noticed, over the last few hundred years that I've been taking premed classes that the women in my classes are far more annoying than the men, in general. This is not to say that I haven't met and made good friends with some pretty cool women in these classes, but by in large, females are more competitive and snarky than men are.

Case in point - and this is an extreme example, because TPR seems to attract the gunner personality, and therefore distill it - a girl in my makeup class tonight did not fail to send a dirty look, or giggle or roll her eyes when I asked a question, every chance she got. Maybe it was my tattoo (which is pretty and tasteful). Maybe it was when I answered a question about momentum wrong (hell, it's been 3 years since I took mechanics). Maybe she felt like the instructor (whom it was obvious she had a crush on) was talking to me too much. Who knows. But the last time she shot me a nasty look, I actually lost my temper and stuck my tongue out at her - in my most dignified, 35 y/o fashion.

This is not the first time this has happened to me. Girls put weird reagents into my test-tubes. Girls spread evil rumors about me, even to my professors. Girls are generally more uptight about when I get a better grade than they do.

Why are these intelligent women so crazy? Do they not get it that their insecurity is not proportional to their overall attractiveness?

Ok, end rant. I just had to get it off my chest. One day, I'm probably just going to end up kicking one of these awful girl's ass.

anyway,

Nanon
 

Alexander99

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Beats me. Why do girls in general (including non-premeds) act like this in our society? One theory I have is that most guys don't normally act like this because if they do, they risk getting the beat down by another guy. With girls, what's the worst that can happen? A hair-pulling contest?
 

TheFlash

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That sucks. I feel for ya, Nanon. :(
 

Skaterbabe74

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I agree with Alexander...it's so not just a "premed" woman thing. I'm a woman too but I've never gotten along as well with women as I do with men. My best buds are all guys, always have been, probably always will be simply because I find too many women are back-stabbing, game-playing, $itches. Either that or they are the prissy, snobby, girly girls where every little fun thing is gross or nasty lol.

Case in point - one of the girls in a couple of my classes this semester has a learning disability that makes her have to go at a slightly slower pace then most of us in order to "get" it. She gets priority sitting (front row, dead center) in her classes, takes her exams in the science learning center with additional time, etc. Anyway she's really an awesome woman and I'm lucky to call her my friend, but some of the other people who sit in the front row with her are simply awful to her. One of them told her she couldn't sit where she's been sitting all semester just cuz this girl wanted to sit next to her guy friend, and is constantly shooting her bad looks. It's really sad. I don't have a clue whether the $itch is premed or not, but I know my friend isn't, and she's definitely not any competition, yet this girl has to constantly be mean to my friend. I just soo do not get it:confused:

Anyway hang in there Nanon...you are definitely not the only one who just doesn't get it...and try not to stoop to their level (hard I know lol). Those types of people will get their own in the end.
 

LoneCoyote

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That sounds very much like my TPR class last spring where 2 girls essentially tried to take over the class with their %itchy attitudes, eye-rolling, hair tossing, mocking people, and flirting with all the male instructors and the frat boys in the class. At the end of the class they would get into their SUV together and accelerate out of there, burning rubber in the parking lot and making rude gestures out the window at those of us not in frats or sororities. The funny thing was that they were always bragging about how well they had done on the practice tests, that they were going to get into UC schools as out-of-staters (whatever!), and putting down another girl in the class who was re-applying to med school because of her low MCAT score the previous year. But I knew one of the female instructors who told me that they were only getting in the 18-21 range on the AAMC practice tests toward the end of the class. So it seems like they had some work to do other than flirting and being %itchy if they really planned to get into med school. I agree that people like that often get what they deserve. It's karma.
 

LauraMac

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maybe they're intimated by you because you're older than them. they think you are automatically smarter because of that and so they have to put stuff in your test tubes to ruin your grades or something? to be honest, i'm slightly scared of those non-twentysomethings in my classes, because you guys have your $hit together a lot better than the rest of us. i would never act like a total jacka$$ like that, though.

either way, those girls are super immature. try to find other people in your classes and try spending your time with them and ignore the other girls.
 

premedmadness

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i agree. you know what's funny? i'm a girl, and while most girls like me are saying, "i hope i meet a nice guyyy in med school," i'm sitting here saying, "i hope i meet a nice girlll in med school.." because good girlfriends are SO hard to come by! girls, take my advice: if you have a best friend who's a girl, hang on to her. they don't come along every day.
 

enigmata

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Sorry for the bad experiences Nanon and Skaterbabe. I think the problem lies in women in general. Girls whose idea of fun is gossiping and giggling over anything and everything are precisely the reason why my most of my good are friends are guys. Some girls just like to create drama....everything is a joke to them...no substance at all...and competition with other girls gives them excitement in life. Guys are just more down to earth?they also like to compete...but via more constructive mediums, like sports and whatnot.
 

TTSD

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Originally posted by lilpreallo
Sorry for the bad experiences Nanon and Skaterbabe. I think the problem lies in women in general. Girls whose idea of fun is gossiping and giggling over anything and everything are precisely the reason why my most of my good are friends are guys. Some girls just like to create drama....everything is a joke to them...no substance at all...and competition with other girls gives them excitement in life. Guys are just more down to earth?they also like to compete...but via more constructive mediums, like sports and whatnot.

I absolutely agree. If a guy has a problem, it's easily rectified through wanton violence and you all become buddies afterwards, girls never forget.

There was an interesting article in Time about a year or two back about the Alpha-female. They talked about how since girls are indoctrinated not to be overtly competitive or violent, or outwardly express themselves like men.. they channel their aggression and competitiveness through different mediums.

Like using gossip as a weapon. Exclusion. Taunting, jeering.

So while guys might just be barbarians, ours is a direct outlet.. girls are much more sinister and nefarious.
 

Alexander99

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Coincidentally, I know it's an extreme example and they specifically select idiots to be on the show but if you want to see girl against girl cattyness (not sure how to spell that word) at its worst, watch the TV show "Elimidate." Invariably, there's a girl that starts off just insulting another girl for no apparent reason. You see that with the guys too but normally not right away and not to the same level.
 

CalBeE

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I can relate to all these b*tchy snobbish girl comments, but I actually find some guys (Not neccessarily premed) to be either cocky or super lazy, or both. So it's not just girls...it's probably just easier to see the flaws in your own species. I think people are generally nicer to people of the opposite sex. ;)
 

Alexander99

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If any of you get that attitude from someone, there's a funny saying you can use from one of my favorite shows: "They have a word for people like you. I'll give you a hint. It starts with a 'B' and ends with 'yatch.'"
 

LP1CW

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I can't imagine this. We're adults. This sounds like junior high school behavior.

I've witnessed female students seeking attention, but not to that degree.
 

musiclink213

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i know what the OP is talking about. most of my friends that are premed are guys, the girls on the other hand.... they have tendencies to be snobbish, stuck up, and think the world revolves around them and their pre-med status, which really doesn't mean anything at this point. in lab, when i had to run an experiment 4 times because i apparently had bad equipment and my prof. didn't want to tell me i did, they were shooting me these mocky looks, like haha on you. just ignore them, and the world becomes a better place.
 

ms. a

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Good Lord! Where do you all go to school?!?! I went to an all women's college and never, EVER ran into anything like this.
 

breski

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Here's to Ms. A. I haven't ever seen anything like that. Sounds really childish....I surely hope this is a minority of the students you guys take class with. My problem with most of my girl friends is that once they find a man, I never hear or see from them for like months, until some major drama in their lives starts up again. I guess that is about the extent of my "drama". I guess I can't begrudge them their happiness, and I am certainly guilty of the same at times. But hey, can we stop girl bashing? We don't all behave like adolescents.
 

gschl1234

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Originally posted by ms. a
Good Lord! Where do you all go to school?!?! I went to an all women's college and never, EVER ran into anything like this.

Thank goodness! Finally a voice of reason. I don't know whether you're all exaggerating your experiences or whether they really are this bad but I have never witnessed anything like this. I frankly have a difficult time believing the OP beucase I don't know how much credence to give someone who seems so paranoid and who, at the age of 35, sees fit to degrade herself by behaving in such a way in public. It would have never crossed my mind to stick out my tongue, let alone actually go through with it! I went to an undergrad institution with hundreds of pre-meds all vying for about 80 slots at our school's med program and although I confess I met one person who was a bit annoying, I never met anyone who rolled eyes, stuck out her tongue, sabotaged lab experiments or the like! Maybe my expereince is different because after my sophomore year I had very few classes with pre-meds as they were mostly bio and biochem majors. There were quite a few medicinal chem majors (I was a chem major) in my junior/senior year courses and although I didn't know them extremely well, they seemed ok. They just tried to get the best grades they could but never were mean or condescending to anyone else. Quite frankly many of the opinions expressed here worry me because I fear I will one day be colleagues with closet mysogynists of both male and female persuasions. :(

On the other hand, if the OP really was the victim of such underhanded behavior on the part of other pre-meds I feel sorry for her and hope that she will be able to look past it and concentrate on her own work. I suppose if you've actually been wronged, it is difficult not to sound paranoid to someone who has not been in your situation nor witnessed someone else's woes first-hand. Good luck with everything and I hope the best for you.

P.S. I just noticed that the OP is from CA. I've never lived there but have heard that CA is one of the most competitive places for med school because of the huge population of people who are applying to a few places. Being originally from the midwest (and now northwest) where people's attitudes and situations are probably very different, I apologize if my understanding is lacking.
 

2badr

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I agree with most of what's been posted.

In my classes, I usaully wind up sitting next to the guys. I don't know how this happens, but I always end up making friends with the guys, but not the girls. Two of the girls in one of my classes has gone out of their way to ignore me and pretend I don't exist...until they need something explained to them, then I guess I'm good enough for them :rolleyes: and yes, one of them is a pre-med. Oh, wow! Big surprise.:rolleyes:

I don't have a lot of "girlfriends" either.:confused:
 

Nanon

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Thanks for all the replies, both positive and negative. Yes, it was a childish exchange. I don't think I've stuck my tongue out at anyone since I was about 12, but the situation seemed to call for it - and it cracked me up, at least.

I'm not saying I hate all the women I go to school with. They aren't all horrible, and actually, I've managed to make a lot of long-term girlfriends in school, not easy to do when you get to be my age. However, to say that women are not aggressive and sometimes downright mean, or to call someone mysogynist for saying they are sometimes, is pretty silly in itself.

I think the reason I've had so many issues with this kind of thing in school is because I don't exactly fly under the radar. I'm outspoken, I look different (tattoo's, strange hair), I'm older (which sometimes means I have a better rapport with professors), etc. I can handle the attention I attract 99% of the time. However, the jobs I do and the people I hang out with are a lot like me, and so I don't generally attract hostility unless I'm at school. Sometimes it surprizes me when I do, I guess.

Enough defending of myself. Gotta go!

Nanon
 

celticmists18

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here are my 2 cents on the issue: I agree that women in general are more backhanded and gossipy than men, its definitely not just limited to premeds. Example: when to women get mad a each other they usually resort to underhanded tactics, men just beat they living daylights out of each other and then things are fine.
From my experience premed women actually seem to be a little better (attitude wise) than the rest. I met my two best friends/roomates in my second year of college (both premeds). They are the coolest, nicest, and most geniune individuals I have ever had the pleasure of getting to know. So in the end I guess it is just how people choose to be. Me, I'm one of those brutually honest types so I just piss people off right and left, but at least I do it to your face and most people respect that.
 

gschl1234

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Originally posted by Nanon
I'm not saying I hate all the women I go to school with. They aren't all horrible, and actually, I've managed to make a lot of long-term girlfriends in school, not easy to do when you get to be my age. However, to say that women are not aggressive and sometimes downright mean, or to call someone mysogynist for saying they are sometimes, is pretty silly in itself.
Nanon

Perhaps my usage of such a word as mysogynist was overly strong; however, this came after reading post after post of people cheering on this kind of bias against women. Nonetheless, I apologize for using the word hastily and I am very sorry that anyone felt the need to defend her/himself. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I simply felt from my personal experiences that this attitude just does not reflect the way that female pre-meds (either highly aggressive or assertive) actually behave. I've already granted the possibility that the OP's background is much more competitive than mine is, thus I may not have any sort of understanding of what goes on in her school/MCAT prep program. I am simply saying that I have never seen nor faced the kind of behavior she and others have described and it pained me to see so many poeple perpetuating this kind of thinking without many people expressing the other side of the conversation. It worries me that people who may already have bias against women in medicine or in the workplace in general may use this as more fuel to their fire. I don't think that many people would openly admit to the world or even themselves that they have prejudice about any group, but it probably lingers somewhere. I am not saying that any of the people who have agreed with the OP or the OP herself have these preconceptions. What I am worried about is that their communications may influence others who are so inclined.

Perhaps the problem is that although we casually mention that there are many women who are examples to the contrary of the "gunners" described, we don't give the genuinely nice people full benefit. People focus much more energy on the few situations where they have been wronged over the day-to-day reality of life when things are generally good. For my experience, at any rate, female and male pre-meds have been very nice (I would consider many as friends), supportive (giving great advice about things they've learned from their experiences), and helpful (sharing notes and study materials). I suppose I have been fortunate to have been sheltered from the hurtful behavior of "gunners".
 

Chrisobean

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i wouldnt call these nasty b*tches women, they are definitely children. and sometimes you have to resort to something childish to make your point.
 

jlee9531

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to the OP..(Nanon)

this has nothing to do with the topic...but i have a question i need to ask. you are the 2nd person I know that uses the word "snarky"....what exactly does that mean?? even the friend that uses it cant really explain it very well to me but she uses it a lot haha.


oh now...im sorry about your experiences. i have been in the middle of these type of ordeals as well but just try to ignore them...its not worth it to stress over it.

gschl1234 - i understand your point, but sadly these girls are real and not only girls, but guys do this as well. you are at an awesome place where people are supportive...its just the OP was talking about her experience with other women so we are just telling her its not something rare and that it happens elsewhere as well.
 

IrishOarsman

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Not to be masogonistic, but I side with another male poster.

Originally posted by CalBeE
I think people are generally nicer to people of the opposite sex. ;)

Winner.
 

efex101

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I have found many women (if not most) to be like the OP said hence most of my friends have always been men. I can truly count with one hand my real true female friends. Many women are threatened IMHO by other women that are in higher positions/have college degrees/more successful whatever so I try to always stay away from these gals. I have also found women many of them, to snivel waaaay tooooo muuuuuch and always complain and gripe about this and that instead of doing something about it. I will stay away from female heavy residencies because of this. I have seen these attituded in the military, in school, from stay home moms, from fellow aerobic instructors/personal trainers, you name it. Thank goodness for men they are so freaking straight forward!
 

LoneCoyote

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Originally posted by ms. a
Good Lord! Where do you all go to school?!?! I went to an all women's college and never, EVER ran into anything like this.

Hmmm... interesting. I went to a women's college for undergrad and definitely was surprised to find how %itchy, catty and competitive people could be with each other. It was not like my experience at the state school doing post-bac where I saw really immature behavior like the OP described, but definitely was not very nice. I was expecting a lot more community and "sisterhood." I was so turned off I actually graduated a year early to get out. But I did go to women's college that is known to be a pressure cooker... I just hadn't done my research enough when I picked it. Of course, not everyone was like that and I made some great friends and met some amazing people. But doing my post-bac at a co-ed school was a bit of a relief. All of my friends, with a couple of exceptions, were guys and we were all older and non-trad. There was none of the same bullsh!t from undergrad. Like the OP I think being non-trad and not dressing like a sorority girl is why I experienced some of the hostility in my review class.
 

Gleevec

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The biggest gunners at my school are women (Im not saying all women are gunners at all, but the biggest gunners just happened to be women). They are really vindictive towards their classmates (asking questions during others presentations that dont really have anything to do with the presentation, but just sorta stump the presenter), secretive about their data (even when theyre in your group), and get flustered about something going wrong very easily.

Then again, some of the nicest premeds I know are women as well. The ones who are great partners, like helping people out, share notes, etc. I dont know any really "neutral" (nondescript, quiet) women in premed (though I do know guys like that), they're either really sweet or sour as heck.
 

Tiki

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There is good and bad at every school, both male and female.

I go to a very small private school, and we only have four women who are premeds. Two of them are nice (myself being one of the nice ones ;)), and two are horrible nasty evil wenches.

I just ignore the other two. I admit that they annoy me though. One of them always runs up to me after every test to try and compare her grade. Except when she hasn't done well, and by well I mean a 97 or above.:rolleyes: Then she won't ask me.

I hope there are more nice women than evil gunners when I get to med school.
 

gschl1234

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Originally posted by jlee9531
gschl1234 - i understand your point, but sadly these girls are real and not only girls, but guys do this as well. you are at an awesome place where people are supportive...its just the OP was talking about her experience with other women so we are just telling her its not something rare and that it happens elsewhere as well.

I suppose that you must be right if so many people have posted their bad experiences with female pre-meds. I can only think that I've been very lucky so far and hopefully will continue to meet nice, supportive people in med school.

Originally posted by Gleevec: The biggest gunners at my school are women (Im not saying all women are gunners at all, but the biggest gunners just happened to be women). They are really vindictive towards their classmates (asking questions during others presentations that dont really have anything to do with the presentation, but just sorta stump the presenter), secretive about their data (even when theyre in your group), and get flustered about something going wrong very easily.

Come to think of it I once met a girl who deliberately asked a difficult question during an oral presentation. I couldn't answer it and then she proceeded to answer it for me. I thought that she had asked because she wanted to make sure that point was clear in the presentation but afterwards I heard her talking to someone about it and she was bragging about the whole incident. I'm still not sure why she did it because I hardly knew her. Anyhow, I had completely forgotten about the whole thing. The person who made the comment was not a pre-med. This, however, did not happen at any of the institutions where I've studied. It was at a summer program. I can't remember what school the girl is from but I remember her complaining about Pacific time zone cause she had just come from the east coast. I suppose there are mean-spirited people everyone and the key would be to try not to be too bothered by them. My feelings were a little hurt because I didn't understand why she didn't like me but other than that I wasn't too bothered.
 

Skaterbabe74

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Originally posted by gschl1234
Thank goodness! Finally a voice of reason. I don't know whether you're all exaggerating your experiences or whether they really are this bad but I have never witnessed anything like this.

Maybe my expereince is different because after my sophomore year I had very few classes with pre-meds as they were mostly bio and biochem majors. There were quite a few medicinal chem majors (I was a chem major) in my junior/senior year courses and although I didn't know them extremely well, they seemed ok. They just tried to get the best grades they could but never were mean or condescending to anyone else. Quite frankly many of the opinions expressed here worry me because I fear I will one day be colleagues with closet mysogynists of both male and female persuasions. :(

P.S. I just noticed that the OP is from CA. I've never lived there but have heard that CA is one of the most competitive places for med school because of the huge population of people who are applying to a few places. Being originally from the midwest (and now northwest) where people's attitudes and situations are probably very different, I apologize if my understanding is lacking.

Just a couple comments. You were extremely lucky not to meet more girls like the ones that have been described. And my experiences have definitely not been limited to "premeds". I've found these sort of girls in many areas of life...work, school, volunteer positions, etc. It just "seems" to be more prevalent today then it was when I was in high school, or maybe I'm less tolerant of it now. I'm originally from the midwest as well, and now live in the mountains but still technically the midwest and I definitely experienced the sort of things we've mentioned during high school and my first years at college (in the midwest), besides the experiences I've noticed in some of my current classes. Now I haven't experienced the true "gunner" behaviors of messing with experiments, data, etc but the snotty, eye-rolling, rude behaviors I've definitely seen.

I also believe that at my school at least the Chemistry majors are much less apt to the sorts of bad camaraderie (sp?) behaviors I've mentioned then some of the other majors I've come into contact with so given your background I'm not surprised you haven't experienced behaviors like we've described. Our upper-division chemistry classes usually have such large curves that everyone ends up working together just to get a decent grade. But in general our chemistry majors are nicer than our biology majors regardless of sex (in my experience). Our biology classes especially tend to promote more competitive attitudes due to having no curves and a 93 being an A (not that this should be an excuse for the behaviors). I've also experienced these behaviors in innocuous classes like English Comp at a community college of all things lol. Now maybe I do tend to notice these sorts of behaviors from women more often then some other women since I have always tended to be more on the tom-boyish athletic side and never into the "girly-girl" things that most of the girls I've been surrounded by my entire life have been into, but because I am "different" than most other women I've met I just don't understand some of the snottier, immature behaviors I've seen that seem to be prevalent among women in general. Does that mean I'm prejudiced against women? Not at all. I just don't choose to associate myself with the women that do behave in this way and associate myself with the nice, supportive, helpful women (who seem to be few and far between in the populations I've been exposed to). Does that mean I can't express my feeling that these women are snots and immature? Gosh I hope not because whether it's a girl or a guy immaturity is extremely annoying and sometimes we all need to vent.

As far as the opinions we've expressed worrying you please don't let it. The opinions we've expressed are about a select population of girls/women, although that population seems to be growing (IMHO), and by no means reflect an absolute. There are of course women not like the ones we've described since we don't believe we're like those women, and while many of us are saying that most of our friends are men vs women due to behaviors like we've described by no means does that mean that we never have women friends or discriminate against women based on an assumption that women are like the ones we've described. Yes, I've had very few true women friends in my life, but that does not mean that everytime I meet a woman I have an automatic dislike for them. We were not saying that we were automatically biased against women. We were just supporting the OP in her observation that there are women like this and that none of us understood or liked these behaviors. Given the nature of this medium it is wrong to assume that any of the things said on here are considered absolutes and prejudiced. When we start topics or comment on topics we are solely commenting on one or a few situations/experiences, not making absolute judgements or describing daily occurences. Given this medium I don't find it surprising or painful to not see the "other side" presented that often since people are commenting to a specific statement, not having a true conversation, and 9 times out of 10 trying to show their support to whatever the original topic was. That automatically sets itself up to being relatively one-sided.

Sorry didn't mean to go on a rant there. Suffice it to say consider yourself lucky if you have not experienced some or all of the behaviors described in this thread. I wish I could say the same.
 

gschl1234

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Originally posted by Skaterbabe74
I also believe that at my school at least the Chemistry majors are much less apt to the sorts of bad camaraderie (sp?) behaviors I've mentioned then some of the other majors I've come into contact with so given your background I'm not surprised you haven't experienced behaviors like we've described. Our upper-division chemistry classes usually have such large curves that everyone ends up working together just to get a decent grade. But in general our chemistry majors are nicer than our biology majors regardless of sex (in my experience). Our biology classes especially tend to promote more competitive attitudes due to having no curves and a 93 being an A (not that this should be an excuse for the behaviors).

Sorry didn't mean to go on a rant there. Suffice it to say consider yourself lucky if you have not experienced some or all of the behaviors described in this thread. I wish I could say the same.

Skaterbabe--I really appreciate your comments and I don't feel like you went on a rant. I feel like your statements helped me to understand the OP's and others' frustration on this point. I am truly sorry that there are people who behave this way and that there are those who have to endure it.

One thing that logically makes no sense is this: if your biology classes aren't curved, then theoretically everyone can get an A. In curved classes, only the top 10-15% get A's. Why wouldn't bio majors want to help each other, then? They could all get A's without hurting each other cause they aren't in direct competition. You may have a point about the major because so few people at my school majored in chemistry; the sample size was probably too small to be able to make any type of generalization. There were definitely many more bio/biochem majors and I have no idea what their attitudes became after sophomore year. Another thing you mentioned was that you may be more sensitive to girls' behavior because you're more tom-boyish. I had a friend (biochem major) once say to me that my way of approaching life and people is so (I think she said) "strait-forward" that people who try intimidation tactics on me soon quit because it never works. I think it's cause I just don't dwell. Maybe it's a little like when we were in elementary school and bullies always seemed to zero in on certain kids.
 

Fish3715

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Originally posted by Skaterbabe74
Our biology classes especially tend to promote more competitive attitudes due to having no curves and a 93 being an A (not that this should be an excuse for the behaviors).

Sorry to go off topic, but if the classes aren't curved, why would the students be competitive (since there's no "set" number of people receiving a certain grade)?

EDIT: someone already asked this. Sorry.
 

Nanon

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I read this article, and I think it's spot on. Doesn't make the behavior any less annoying, though. And yes, this kind of behavior happens in every social situation. Sahm's criticising working moms for not breast feeding long enough, and working mom's complaining about how neurotic sahm's are. I remember one of my first jobs, where the boss was a woman, and everyone else was a woman, and I was the office manager. I swear, I grew my first grey hair on that job just listening to the other women talk about each other, never mind what they did to me.

That being said, I should be used to it, and it shouldn't bother me as much anymore, but it does. I'm an idealist in a lot of ways, and not very competitive, so it confuses me when other people, especially women, try to compete with me by being snarky...

And snarky, at least in the way I use it, means speaking in a condescending manner...

Ok, off to more TPR madness with the class I'm usually in - and they're all really nice. :D

Nanon
 

skoobi

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I agree with Gleevec. Some of the worst and some of the nicest pre-meds I've known have been girls. And one of the nicest happened to a very nice URM who I hope is swimming in acceptance letters now.

But yeah, definitely stear clear of the former as well as the friends they hang around with. Geese of a feather flock together!
 

Skaterbabe74

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Originally posted by gschl1234

One thing that logically makes no sense is this: if your biology classes aren't curved, then theoretically everyone can get an A. In curved classes, only the top 10-15% get A's. Why wouldn't bio majors want to help each other, then? They could all get A's without hurting each other cause they aren't in direct competition. You may have a point about the major because so few people at my school majored in chemistry; the sample size was probably too small to be able to make any type of generalization. There were definitely many more bio/biochem majors and I have no idea what their attitudes became after sophomore year. Another thing you mentioned was that you may be more sensitive to girls' behavior because you're more tom-boyish. I had a friend (biochem major) once say to me that my way of approaching life and people is so (I think she said) "strait-forward" that people who try intimidation tactics on me soon quit because it never works. I think it's cause I just don't dwell. Maybe it's a little like when we were in elementary school and bullies always seemed to zero in on certain kids.

I guess I should have said "adjusted grading scale" vs. curve because I don't mean a traditional bell curve. Our chemistry classes are set up with an 85 being an A. And while I totally agree with you that not having a curve should make for less competition the 93 for the A tends to offset not having a curve. Plus I don't think most ultra-competitive/agreesive students care whether there is really competition for a grade or not...they still have to beat everyone else.

As far as the sensitivity thing I'm probably as straightforward as you and intimidation doesn't get to me either, and so I'm not usually the one that people are behaving badly towards. I'm one of those few fringe people who just kind of blends in anywhere and therefore don't really get noticed lol. But I do notice these behaviors being directed towards others, most often towards those that are the least competition to them, and I think that I notice these things because these sorts of behaviors are soo outside the norm for me even when I was young and immature (which I realize is often part of the issue with some of these girls).
 

rgporter

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Originally posted by Nanon
...Case in point - and this is an extreme example, because TPR seems to attract the gunner personality, and therefore distill it - a girl in my makeup class tonight did not fail to send a dirty look, or giggle or roll her eyes when I asked a question, every chance she got.

They teach you how to apply makeup in TPR? Weird, how does that help? :D

JK, nothing worse than a made-up gunner fem-fatale.
 

cather

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I am a pretty quiet and shy person so I don't really know a lot of people. But what you are talking about (the people in your TPR and regular classes) -- they sound terrible. I mean if people were making fun of me in my class, I would just tell them to
f'off.

I am surprised that the TPR instructors are allowing people to act so childish. You are paying them their instructor salary so they should have a better handle on classroom instruction.
Or sometimes you can go to another TPR class instructor or just sit in the front, that way you don't have to even look at the obnoxious girls. But they sound terrible.
 

JohnHolmes

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Actually, I haven't really noticed that much of a difference between the premed men and women--at least here at U.Va.

It's unfortunate that there are people out there who won't help their buddies or classmates on tests because of a curve.

I just don't get it. None of my friends, and none of the premeds I knew were like this, but I keep HEARING from everyone about how bad the premed curriculum is ... did I miss something?

CCW
 

sunni

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Originally posted by uclacrewdude
Ladder Theory.

Dammit I hate you. I wanted to say that.
But I will second it.
 

MaybeMD

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Nanon, what school do you go to? Is it in the Bay Area?
 

DrWorkNeverDone

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nanon, something happened today and I automatically thought of this post....I have the privledge of going to a community college for my pre reqs...That does not stop the snipping though, today I went to my ochem teacher to ask if I could talk to him after class ( he is writing my LOR's) He said sure and asked if I would like to join the group to do my IR....I realized that I would be cutting everyone else and was just about to say I would wait when this girl said very loudly, *noo cause that would be cutting the line she needs to go and put her name on the board* errr I answered that I was only back there to ask a question and that I would wait patiently. This girl gets on my nerves everyday in Ochem because any time I ask a question I can hear her snickering and even a couple times saying *yeah dumb88* sigh I talked to the professor and I guess this is not the first time that he has been complained to about her.....I told him that I do not expect her to change but was wondering if maybe he had any advice on how I should handle it,,,,,he said to just fluff her off,,,and that she is probably just jealous :laugh: :laugh:
 

gschl1234

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Originally posted by Skaterbabe74
As far as the sensitivity thing I'm probably as straightforward as you and intimidation doesn't get to me either, and so I'm not usually the one that people are behaving badly towards. I'm one of those few fringe people who just kind of blends in anywhere and therefore don't really get noticed lol. But I do notice these behaviors being directed towards others, most often towards those that are the least competition to them, and I think that I notice these things because these sorts of behaviors are soo outside the norm for me even when I was young and immature (which I realize is often part of the issue with some of these girls).

You know, it's funny you should mention this. I still contend that I have not generally seen this kind of behavior against myself or anyone but a friend of mine mentioned yesterday about her TA in orgo (a senior rather than a grad student). Apparently he's very much the bully and dismissive about her questions as well as others (although her questions do seem a bit unnecessary, I think she asks them because she's way too insecure about orgo). Another friend who also knows the same guy and is in a class wtih him said that once she asked him a question and he said, "look it up." I only have their words to go on since I've never met the guy (I'm doing some post-bac work at a different university than where I did my undergrad) but I guess I'm just not around when this kind of stuff occurs. For my own experience during undergrad, I rarely studied with people until my junior year and we were all in the B/C range (the average was curved to a B-) so we pretty much helped each other a lot. No one was a pre-med though, since we were all B.S. students and not medicinal chem (B.A.) students. We pretty much were either headed to grad school in chem/biochm or to work. I personally decided after my M.Phil. in Chem to do med school. I still think that the vast majority of people are nice and decent and that we just notice it more when people are jerks cause it hurts our feelings.
 

gioia

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This thread is the residue of a problem that began post WWII. It is really NOT a ladder issue.

Prior to, and during, WWII, American women were independent, outspoken, and hardworking. It would take too much time to go into the details, but by WWII women were not only operating ALL of the machinery, welding equipment, and driving large vehicles: they ENJOYED it while they took care of their homes.

The American government and media et al, fostered what we now think of as the 'Leave it to Beaver' 1950's lifestyle when our men came back home. There was a total regression of female responsibilities and we slinked, somewhat unwillingly, into brand-new never before seen dwellings called SUBURBS. Women became isolated. TV made public gatherings more or less superfluous. The American economy needed MEN back in the work place and marketed a lifestyle that didn't really exist. So women started to bake cookies to please her man and fry bologna for dinner, losing themselves in their children (who were now healthy enough to survive thanks to vaccines). This really appealled to the 'lost generation' demographic and became fodder for the "liberated" woman that briefly emerged in the late 1960's (which was a throw back to the pre-WWII woman).

Many women behave the way they do today, not because of a class or ladder theory, because there is no sociological determinant or checklist that defines her roles and society's expectations of her. The baby boomers dropped the ball and women today are really clueless about how to make society work for her.

Not ALL women are that way. Hormones are a lame excuse: Did you know that men suffer from hormonal oscillations as well? Look around: A confident, self-fulfilled, self-actualized individual is not toxic. Those individuals are female and male. If you meet more females than males with identity problems, it is likely demograhic, topographic, or sociological. They are out there, but they are not everywhere.
 

Gleevec

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I think abstract historical digressions dont explain why some spoiled individual women act like spoiled princesses and gun like crazy in class, while others tend to be some of the nicest people youll find. I think it has to do more with upbringing and not being told no, and thus becoming spoiled.

Originally posted by gioia
This thread is the residue of a problem that began post WWII. It is really NOT a ladder issue.

Prior to, and during, WWII, American women were independent, outspoken, and hardworking. It would take too much time to go into the details, but by WWII women were not only operating ALL of the machinery, welding equipment, and driving large vehicles: they ENJOYED it while they took care of their homes.

The American government and media et al, fostered what we now think of as the 'Leave it to Beaver' 1950's lifestyle when our men came back home. There was a total regression of female responsibilities and we slinked, somewhat unwillingly, into brand-new never before seen dwellings called SUBURBS. Women became isolated. TV made public gatherings more or less superfluous. The American economy needed MEN back in the work place and marketed a lifestyle that didn't really exist. So women started to bake cookies to please her man and fry bologna for dinner, losing themselves in their children (who were now healthy enough to survive thanks to vaccines). This really appealled to the 'lost generation' demographic and became fodder for the "liberated" woman that briefly emerged in the late 1960's (which was a throw back to the pre-WWII woman).

Many women behave the way they do today, not because of a class or ladder theory, because there is no sociological determinant or checklist that defines her roles and society's expectations of her. The baby boomers dropped the ball and women today are really clueless about how to make society work for her.

Not ALL women are that way. Hormones are a lame excuse: Did you know that men suffer from hormonal oscillations as well? Look around: A confident, self-fulfilled, self-actualized individual is not toxic. Those individuals are female and male. If you meet more females than males with identity problems, it is likely demograhic, topographic, or sociological. They are out there, but they are not everywhere.
 

carrigallen

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An interesting thread, good read. =)


PS. I hope things go well for you Nanon.
 

gioia

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Gleevac,

I agree with you. However, spoiled individuals aside, I was addressing the ladder theory (that a woman's behaviour is based on male/female attraction) and the deficit in our country's sociological framework for women.
 
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