When applying to General Surgery programs, who should your letters come from?

[Blade28]

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All surgeons?

Or is it OK to have one or two non-surgeons in there?

Are letters from Internal Medicine docs heavily frowned upon?

 

[Winged Scapula]

All surgeons?

Or is it OK to have one or two non-surgeons in there?

Are letters from Internal Medicine docs heavily frowned upon?

A letter from an Internist who praises you highly is certainly acceptable, especially if they work in a Critical Care area. While the majority of letters probably should be from surgeons, a letter from someone in what's considered a fairly rigorous field would be accepted. After all, in most programs surgeons also manage medical problems.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

All surgeons?

Or is it OK to have one or two non-surgeons in there?

Are letters from Internal Medicine docs heavily frowned upon?

The best letters to have are:

one from your chairman
two (or more) from surgeons that you worked with and really know you well

The best letters are from surgeons who know you well and like you, and who have serious burn in the academic world. Don't pick a letter writer just because you like them. It sucks, but a great letter from a well-known surgeon (even if you are not particularly close), is much better than a great letter from an unknown surgeon. The caveat here is that you want to avoid getting a generic boiler plate type letter from a well-known surgeon over a great letter from an unknown. In that case, it's better to go with the unknown surgeon in my opinion.

A letter from a medicine attending is not a great idea. But, if you really kicked ass on medicine, and the medicine doctor writes you an amazing letter, then I think it wouldn't hurt you too much. The problem is that surgery program directors have to sift through a crap-load of applications, and letters from non-surgeons might be just another reason to weed your app out. Surgery is still a pretty conservative field. Change the question up a bit and imagine if you were applying for say, psychiatry. Would you ask a surgeon to write one of your letters? Probably not.

When I applied through ERAS in 2002, I think that you could only use 3 letters. I asked my chairman, and 2 other surgeons to write for me. And, I was asked about my letter writers at ~70% of my interviews. The program director/chairman club is a relatively small one (especially regionally), and it seems like everyone knows everyone. I didn't have any superfamous letter-writers, but I was surprised how many people on the east coast knew who they were. At the program where I eventually matched, the chairman had gone to medical school, and residency with one of my letter-writers! Freaked me out at the time... But in retrospect, maybe I should recommend getting at least one really old guy who's been an academic for his whole life to write for you...lol. Chances are, *someone* will know him!

I hope this helps.

 

[gatorAKM]

I agree with Celiac.

Its a red flag on your application if you dont have a Chairman's letter. It helps to have active academicians write letters for you. Surgeons are the best letter writers for applying for surgery, obviously.

Getting lukewarm letters from big guns is not as good as ones from less well-known people who write GREAT letters. I think it is reasonable to get letters from a chairman, a senior academician who is known, and a junior person who knows you well. The ideal is that everyone knows you well and they really like you. This is difficult at times because Chairmen and Senior Academicians may not have a lot of exposure to you. You just have to kick ass with everyone else who you rotate with, and that will certainly become known.

 

[Blade28]

The best letters to have are:

one from your chairman
two (or more) from surgeons that you worked with and really know you well
...
The problem is that surgery program directors have to sift through a crap-load of applications, and letters from non-surgeons might be just another reason to weed your app out. Surgery is still a pretty conservative field. Change the question up a bit and imagine if you were applying for say, psychiatry. Would you ask a surgeon to write one of your letters? Probably not.

That's great advice. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it!

I think I will play it safe and just stick to my surgery attendings' letters. I've already got one from an attending, one from my surgery research mentor, and one from my department chair in the works...will obtain 2-3 more from my away rotations. I guess I was curious because I really got along well with 1-2 medicine attendings, and know they'd write me great letters.

It's true, I'm sure the chairs all know each other...there aren't THAT many of them, and they talk on the phone enough. 🙂

 

[double elle]

What is a 'chairman'??

 

[dry dre]

I agree with Celiac.

Its a red flag on your application if you dont have a Chairman's letter. It helps to have active academicians write letters for you. Surgeons are the best letter writers for applying for surgery, obviously.

I don't think that it is per se a red flag if you don't offer a Chairman's letter. Of course some programs state that they require one in application.

Another equally valid point I think is that it's better to have three letters from attendings that "know you well" rather than two attending letters and one from the chairman (with whom you presumably didn't work) that will only rehash what the attendings tell him.

 

[Blade28]

What is a 'chairman'??

Department chair.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
Another good letter to have is from the Program Director of the General Surgery residency at your school. Program directors get out more than others and tend to know each other pretty well. The program director is also a good resource in sizing up programs that might be a good fit for you especially if you are not AOA or in the top quartile of your class.

If you attend a medical school that does not have a surgery residency program, try to do an audition rotation at some good places and get letters from your preceptors.

njbmd 🙂

 

[Vincristine]

On a similar note: I'm currently on my second surgical away elective. For the first away, I asked the surg onc department chair because I spent alot of time with him and he made it more than clear that he wants me there. Now I'm at a much larger insitution at the Chairman is on vacation until the middle of my rotation (hence I've not yet met him). Given the size and importance of this program, I KNOW his letter is coveted, but think I will walk that line of "a chairman letter who doesn't know you" vs "a respected attending with whom you've spent lots of time and has seen you in action".....

Suggestions?