When did you feel that you finally "made it"?

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Yadster101

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Was it after passing Step 1? After finishing 3rd year? After getting into residency? Or after becoming an attending?

Many students, like myself, feel a constant sense of anxiety because we haven't "made it" yet. While our friends from college are making real money and establishing themselves we are stuck worrying about the next hurdle and whether or not we will eventually make it. For many people having a "legit" job is a large part of "making it".

1. At what point in your training did you feel that you had "made it"?
2. How did it feel to finally make it? Did it reduce the anxiety that comes from the doubts?
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Making it is a state of mind that differs based upon the individual. You can feel like you've "made it" right now if you want, or never, or anywhere in between.
seasons.jpg
 
Mad Jack said:
Making it is a state of mind that differs based upon the individual. You can feel like you've "made it" right now if you want, or never, or anywhere in between.
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The funny thing is that I held this same belief until recently after reading a reddit thread about this topic. A lot of people had the common complaint of not having a good job or not having stable employment that they could grow in long term. I still agree with you but I'm curious to know what people on the other side of their training think.

Do attendings feel like they've "made it" solely based on the completion of their training, or do they feel they same as they did in undergrad/med school?
 
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Yadster101 said:
Was it after passing Step 1? After finishing 3rd year? After getting into residency? Or after becoming an attending?

Many students, like myself, feel a constant sense of anxiety because we haven't "made it" yet. While our friends from college are making real money and establishing themselves we are stuck worrying about the next hurdle and whether or not we will eventually make it. For many people having a "legit" job is a large part of "making it".

1. At what point in your training did you feel that you had "made it"?
2. How did it feel to finally make it? Did it reduce the anxiety that comes from the doubts?
Click to expand...

Medicine is a mountain climb with lots of false summits. Even when you're an attending you will still have days of self doubt only now you have no place to fall back to. The reality is you don't "make it". You keep climbing and learning and getting better at your field. If you're not enjoying the journey while you're doing it, you probably should be doing something else.
 
Yadster101 said:
The funny thing is that I held this same belief until recently after reading a reddit thread about this topic. A lot of people had the common complaint of not having a good job or not having stable employment that they could grow in long term. I still agree with you but I'm curious to know what people on the other side of their training think.

Do attendings feel like they've "made it" solely based on the completion of their training, or do they feel they same as they did in undergrad/med school?
Click to expand...
The whole reason I posted what I did was because I was talking about this with an attending today that's thinking about getting his MBA, as well as a nurse practitioner that wants to get her PhD- we were talking about how you never feel finished, about how you need another milestone to strive toward. You can give up at any time though- I've met hospital sitters that feel like they've "made it" because they get $22/hr to do basically nothing. That's all up to who you are and what your end goals are in life.

I know I'll never be content, because content ain't me.
 
I felt "I made it" when I got accepted to med school.

Then med school started and it's been one hurdle after another ever since. But I don't let it get to me.

However I know of attendings who feel like they need to find the perfect job for them, to live in the perfect location for their family, make "enough" money (whatever that means to them), get another degree so they can be better regarded or have more influence where they are or whatever (e.g., MPH, MBA), research/publish more, make chair, etc. It never ends unless you end it. Basically it's exactly like @Mad Jack said above.
 
1st admission. That's the hurdle. After that you know that if you put in the work and don't do something completely stupid, you get the golden ticket.
The next made it is financial independence and then retirement.
There's a lot of other "made it" moments, but they're not work related.
First million, first election to public office, 1st golden shower show, too many to list.


--
Il Destriero
 
I'm pretty confident that I won't be content no matter where I end up, but that's mostly due to my personality and incessant need to continuously accomplish something else.

However, I think the feeling of "making it" will come in a few years when I (hopefully) find out I match into the specialty I want. I've dedicated an enormous portion of my life to get to that point in my career and I can't even begin to imagine the comfort in knowing that I accomplished the biggest goal that I have ever had. Sure, I could be a doctor making 300k+ in loads of other specialties, but I still wouldn't feel like I made it, because I'm not in the field I want to be. For me practicing in the specialty I want is "making it". Actually being content with life is separate, and I don't think money or prestige will get you there.
 
I've just conceded to try to enjoy the little things cuz this academic medicine game wants to chew people up and spit em out. I ain't going out like that. Once I changed my perspective, I was able to find content in each step of the journey.

But that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop taking steps to keep improving and getting more "content" w/ each step.
 
I think one of the things that struck me most about life and growing up is trying to redefine personal happiness.

In medicine, we routinely accept delayed gratification as the status quo. In some way, through all of the real or perceived sacrifices, we believe it will pay off and life will get better at the next step. For me, this was exciting as I moved through high school and college, then medical school. Perhaps, it was just that neurosurgery is 7-years in length, or perhaps after PGY-2 it does not feel as though we are learning as rapidly, but I felt quite a bit of loss that I had sacrificed so much to end up where I was, and not be happy. I looked forward to being an attending, life must surely be better then. Then I worked with an attending who had a rough go at it, and all of the things I looked forward to such as autonomy, self satisfaction, and personal gratification came to a screeching halt. This attending appeared miserable all of the time, let everyone around him know how this is how he felt, and took it out on those around him and his subordinates. Quite a scary future to look forward to after such a long road to nearly be there.

What changed? Well, constantly spinning the hamster wheel trying to move forward to the next step for starters. I looked for things in my life that I enjoy now, things I am doing or people I get to work with or associate with outside of work that make my life more pleasant. Simply just being thankful for all that I have, all that I am capable of, and those patients with whom I am able to work, doing what I love. True, I do still look forward to those next steps, and do still have a sense of that excitement I once had. That being said, enjoying life along the way is what living is all about, lest I want to end up a miserable jerk like the aforementioned attending.
 
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I think this is why I don't want to pursue a career in academics when I am a physician.. it is just a constant cycle of being judged by your peers and jumping through hurdles.

Finding a good job in private practice will be the made it point for me
 
xffan624 said:
Medicine is a mountain climb with lots of false summits. Even when you're an attending you will still have days of self doubt only now you have no place to fall back to. The reality is you don't "make it". You keep climbing and learning and getting better at your field. If you're not enjoying the journey while you're doing it, you probably should be doing something else.
Click to expand...

Everyone is different, but this was not my experience. There are certainly always moments of stress and misery as an attending, but its a world of difference compared to training. For me training felt like walking on a balance beam over a very deep chasm. There was always a sense of impending doom, like I was a misstep away from ruining my entire life. Graduating from residency was like coming to the other side of the chasm onto solid ground. Granted, I can still fall on my ass, but there is only so far I can fall and only so much damage I can do.

So, to answer the OP: end of residency.
 
Surprised no one's said match day. By all accounts pretty much 95% chance of being a doctor in your speciality of choice at that point. That's when I felt like I made it. Just need to put my head down, work hard, play nice and enjoy life from now on. Everything else will take care of itself.
 
I think that making this thread on the eve of the presidential inauguration puts things into perspective. Obviously there's no way to predict whether or not the US will collapse as a world power, but it is a thought. I am actually not even as fearful of Trump as I am the sinister triad of Jared Kushner, Mike Flynn, and Mike Pence (along with the lesser players like Rex Tillerson, Rick Perry, Vladimir Putin, etc.)

After all, are we really any better than the people born into concentration camps in North Korea or the orphaned children living in Syrian refugee camps? What did we do to be born into such great wealth and prosperity? How can we fear for poverty in the future when our brothers and sisters around the world are facing unspeakable pain today?
 
It's a journey of continuous enlightenment bro. The process of learning and knowledge itself is liberating and empowering.

I feel sorry for people who need to "make it" in life relative to some friends "making real money". Just step back and take a look at yourself now vs a year ago. Have you grown as an individual?


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Embracing the grind brings me solace and satisfaction. I grew up at the poverty level my entire life in America (which I wouldn't really call poor relative to people in other countries), and although I wouldn't mind having more cash in the future, it's not the motive I chose medicine.

I may be naive, but I think the coolest parts of medicine are those which are also trampled upon and badmouthed by med students, and at times deservedly so because the grind is real and it doesn't let up. How many other scientists/physicians lived their entire lives in some random century scratching their heads at why/how infections occurred? While nowadays, I can review sketchy in one day and read FA micro and walk away knowing information that was so sought after and has since improved/saved millions of lives. This isn't the equivalent of spending time in the Bahamas, but learning material in med school can be a rewarding experience. Also, as physicians train for long years and deal with death, failures, the bureaucracy of medicine, and the lack of appreciation, they may get worn out. I think it's incredible to think that a physician can get a call at 2 am one morning to operate on someone who has a 50/50 shot of living. While some hate call and its restrictions on one's life--deservedly so--there's no changing the reality that that said surgeon has a vital role in saving that patient's life. It's sad to think that 10 years later this surgeon may be burnt out and fed up with medicine while also realizing that the patient he/she helped save has been able to go to college, get married, have kids, see their grandkids, etc. because of that routine 2 am call.

Medicine as a career doesn't alter the paradigm that people can experience in life but it does privy physicians to the confined, extremely personal and vulnerable moments patients and families can find themselves in. Palpably experiencing both ends of the spectrum--both good and bad--in life is as real as it gets. To me, it's kind of like a roller-coaster, but one that teaches you more about yourself, life, and the awesome ability of advancements that are strived after while also exposing its shortfalls.

Of course, it wouldn't hurt to one day also have $olace and $atisfaction while grindin'.
 
One time I was moonlighting as a third year resident at a smaller hospital and I got on at 2000, saw two or three patients by 2300 and then went to the back room to lie down. I awoke to my alarm going off at 0800 and realized I had just been paid ED attending salary to sleep for almost 9 hours. It was one of the happiest moments of my life.
 
Tenk said:
One time I was moonlighting as a third year resident at a smaller hospital and I got on at 2000, saw two or three patients by 2300 and then went to the back room to lie down. I awoke to my alarm going off at 0800 and realized I had just been paid ED attending salary to sleep for almost 9 hours. It was one of the happiest moments of my life.
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wtf I slept for 9 hours yesterday for free
I'm doing something wrong
 
I think there's a difference between contentment and feeling like "I made it". I'm generally pretty content with my life. I've got a great family that loves me, a solid career path, we can afford to live in a house with heating/AC/plumbing, we don't struggle to put food on the table, etc. Even if medicine somehow failed for me, I've got a pretty damn good life compared to a lot of people I've met, and I go out of my way to make sure I don't take it for granted.

As far as feeling like I made it, depends on what aspect I'm looking at.

In terms of education/career: I felt like I made it after I finished Step 1/Level1. Knowing that I never have to be tested on lecture material again and that I actually get to see patients now made everything worth it, and life feels infinitely better. I'm sure I'll have another I made it moment when I match, and again after I finish residency/fellowship, but the big one was just knowing that I actually get to help people Irl now, even if I've still got a lot of learning to do and a long way to go.

In terms of finances: First one will be when I get that first paycheck in residency. It'll mean that I'll finally get to start paying some debt off, or at least not watch my net worth continue to plummet. Having a job before med school and earning a decent wage makes accruing such massive debt even more difficult imo, and it'll be nice to not feel like a leech anymore. Second will be when my debt is paid off. The idea of being able to get a paycheck and know that it's "my money" to do what I want with is something that I'm really excited about.

In terms of family/personal life: I'm married to someone I absolutely love and can't see myself being without, so that was the big one for me. The other points would be finally buying a house that we want to live in for a long time and not just renting/bouncing from city to city every 2-3 years (which I've basically done for the past 10 years), and finishing residency and being able to control my own schedule. I love medicine, but I love my family more, and I'm looking forward to the day when I can really put them first or at least give them the time I feel they deserve without feeling guilty about not studying or working.

As others have said, I don't know if there's ever truly a feeling of "I made it", as we almost always have goals we're striving for and something bigger we're hoping to achieve. I do think there are milestones that give us a bigger sense of "making it" than other points though, and the pride and happiness attained from reaching those goals definitely alleviates some anxiety and fights some of the doubts that constantly sit in the backs of our minds.
 
I pretty much feel like i've made it in life. Feels good to have so many nice things in my life like a loving family, GF, nice apartment, good grades, med school - etc.

Hard to justify feeling angry or dissapointed when there are so many great things about life. Especially like a well-earned meal after a day of studying, or hitting those numbers at the gym, or going to a concert with friends, or getting headshots in my video games.
 
How one defines making it is highly individual. While some would consider getting that first attending job and paycheck as making it, I would venture that most of us still realize were learning and arent yet at our peak.

For me there have been some small victories such as buying the big house or being able to take a luxury vacations but my definition of making it was when I reached the point where patients specifically sought me out, as opposed to being referred to me, and when Job offers and opportunities came my way even when I wasn't looking.


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Yadster101 said:
Was it after passing Step 1? After finishing 3rd year? After getting into residency? Or after becoming an attending?

Many students, like myself, feel a constant sense of anxiety because we haven't "made it" yet. While our friends from college are making real money and establishing themselves we are stuck worrying about the next hurdle and whether or not we will eventually make it. For many people having a "legit" job is a large part of "making it".

1. At what point in your training did you feel that you had "made it"?
2. How did it feel to finally make it? Did it reduce the anxiety that comes from the doubts?
Click to expand...

I don't know about feeling like I've "made it." This career is a long journey and there's not really an end point or one defining moment. But there are certainly big milestones in my career that make me look back at how far I've come and appreciate it.
1) Getting accepted into med school, which was not easy for me (but boy did I not realize things had only just begun...)
2) Passing Step 1 was a huge relief.
3) Going through 3rd year changed my perception of medicine. Loved it, but it was rough.
4) The Monday before Match Day (just finding out that I matched somewhere and in the field I wanted).
5) My first days of internship. I remember putting in my first orders and being terrified.
6) My first C-section as the "primary surgeon"... and stepping on the right side of the OR table for the first time 😱.
7) The beginning of second year... suddenly you're the one training interns and you realize for the first time you have actually learned something.
8) Getting my medical license and prescription pad 😉.
... And there's many more things to look forward to.
Sometimes its the everyday things - my interactions with patients, having a patient request me to deliver their baby... things that remind me of why I'm here.
Medicine is never-ending, there are always more obstacles, more to accomplish. There's always more. But don't forget to enjoy the process and love what you do.
 
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I would really like to "make it" someday. It would feel good to finally feel good about myself for a change.
 
The first time when I felt like I made it was when i gave my first presentation at a conference as a resident (made me feel like I was being accepted in my own profession). The second time was when I became an attending and splurged on the one thing I always wanted to get-- a nice car (made me feel that I was financially secure enough to afford something I would have been very hesitant to get otherwise).
 
IlDestriero said:
1st admission. That's the hurdle. After that you know that if you put in the work and don't do something completely stupid, you get the golden ticket.
The next made it is financial independence and then retirement.
There's a lot of other "made it" moments, but they're not work related.
First million, first election to public office, 1st golden shower show, too many to list.


--
Il Destriero
Click to expand...

Golden shower as in urine?
 
My first time at my medical school was when I approached the Head of a Division for acting like a jerk during Medical Grand Rounds.
He made a spectacle of himself and i was disappointed in how he treated the speaker who was visiting from another institution. I look up to this Dept Head and he showed a side to him that really took me aback.

I went to the department where I was supposed to be late that week and he walked in. I'm older than him but we are both of the same ethnic/ racial group and we have some lee way in how we address each other. I asked him, "what was that about at Grand Rounds? Why did you treat the speaker that way? You know, people like me are watching you, looking for mentors and role models, and the way you addressed the speaker and then walked out of the conference room after you addressed him ff really created a negative impression with some of us watching you"

He was stunned I addressed him in that manner, but we do have some an established relationship with each other. He immediately thanked me, explained himself, apologized and said he hadn't slept much that week and was in a bad mood. He shook my hand and walked away.

It was then his head nurse for the department, who watched it all said, "I can't believe you addressed him that way. No one does!"
My reply was as professional as they come, "maybe you should. he is human and he has his own burdens / concerns. Maybe he could use some one to give him honest feedback in a respectful manner"

Since then we have gotten along even better. His head nurse wants me to do my residency with their department but I haven't decided yet. It was then I realized, "I made it"...I had earned the right to question a behavior by a superior but in a professional manner, and it was received well.

Relationships are everything. He knows I'm a person with "grit", as he calls it. I wasn't being a jerk in how I addressed him but rather just alarmed that he would do that publicly. Now I feel like I have a friend in him and someone I can meet to discuss my goals and learn from his experiences. he has a lot to teach me . He is also human and I should always be ready to reach that facet of a position in leadership if the situation calls for it and a relationship exists.
 
cellsaver said:
My first time at my medical school was when I approached the Head of a Division for acting like a jerk during Medical Grand Rounds.
He made a spectacle of himself and i was disappointed in how he treated the speaker who was visiting from another institution. I look up to this Dept Head and he showed a side to him that really took me aback.

I went to the department where I was supposed to be late that week and he walked in. I'm older than him but we are both of the same ethnic/ racial group and we have some lee way in how we address each other. I asked him, "what was that about at Grand Rounds? Why did you treat the speaker that way? You know, people like me are watching you, looking for mentors and role models, and the way you addressed the speaker and then walked out of the conference room after you addressed him ff really created a negative impression with some of us watching you"

He was stunned I addressed him in that manner, but we do have some an established relationship with each other. He immediately thanked me, explained himself, apologized and said he hadn't slept much that week and was in a bad mood. He shook my hand and walked away.

It was then his head nurse for the department, who watched it all said, "I can't believe you addressed him that way. No one does!"
My reply was as professional as they come, "maybe you should. he is human and he has his own burdens / concerns. Maybe he could use some one to give him honest feedback in a respectful manner"

Since then we have gotten along even better. His head nurse wants me to do my residency with their department but I haven't decided yet. It was then I realized, "I made it"...I had earned the right to question a behavior by a superior but in a professional manner, and it was received well.

Relationships are everything. He knows I'm a person with "grit", as he calls it. I wasn't being a jerk in how I addressed him but rather just alarmed that he would do that publicly. Now I feel like I have a friend in him and someone I can meet to discuss my goals and learn from his experiences. he has a lot to teach me . He is also human and I should always be ready to reach that facet of a position in leadership if the situation calls for it and a relationship exists.
Click to expand...

I don't know...that could have backfired spectacularly. You got lucky. Many attendings take everything as a personal offense. Until you get your residency, I would watch your back. Just speaking from experience.
 
OrthoTraumaMD said:
I don't know...that could have backfired spectacularly. You got lucky. Many attendings take everything as a personal offense. Until you get your residency, I would watch your back. Just speaking from experience.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Also, just because he seemed to take it well doesn't mean he actually did. He could have responded that way to save face but secretly put you on his naughty list.
 
I also dread not "making it" in the future... especially with all these physician burnout posts and articles, and the occasional horror story of not being able to find work and living in debt for half your career. Is mindset really all there is to it? I find it hard even at my current level (M2). I find myself constantly comparing myself to others and thinking that I might not "make it" as well as my college friends who have gone on to start their careers and don't have a crushing debt during the beginning of their career lifetimes...

Also: First post! Sorry it's so pessimistic :laugh:
 
Mr Krabs said:
I also dread not "making it" in the future... especially with all these physician burnout posts and articles, and the occasional horror story of not being able to find work and living in debt for half your career. Is mindset really all there is to it? I find it hard even at my current level (M2). I find myself constantly comparing myself to others and thinking that I might not "make it" as well as my college friends who have gone on to start their careers and don't have a crushing debt during the beginning of their career lifetimes...

Also: First post! Sorry it's so pessimistic :laugh:
Click to expand...

Anesthesia is a field where people say the sky is falling, and we have too many grads, and there are fewer good partnerships, and many "bad" jobs, and saturation in the desirable cities, and CRNA competition, and they've been saying it for 20 years. Well, "bad" is relative. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a job, I even know 2 people that pretty much suck, and one that was fired. All are working, didn't really have any trouble getting a job, and nobody's living in any debt.
If you work hard, have a good attitude, show up on time and prepared, you'll be fine. Your worries about unemployment are unnecessary.
The people without residencies, or jobs, and living in debt have a lot of baggage that they brought on themselves. Or they choose to restrict themselves to a single desirable saturated market and don't have the connections or superstar status to break into a good job there.


--
Il Destriero
 
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IlDestriero said:
If it's good enough for President Trump, it's good enough for me.
Click to expand...

it all makes sense now. his obsession with gold objects. its all a cover for his golden shower fetish
 
As cliché as it sounds, I love the fact that my profession consists of learning and practicing medicine everyday. If you don't like that, I don't know what to tell you. So in a sense, I made it when I got that acceptance letter to medical school.
 
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