WHEN? new Robbins new Ackerman?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Isa2010
  • Start date Start date
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I

Isa2010

Hi. If someone has info regarding new edition release of these books
Robbins basic path. of Dis. and Ackerman surgical Path. (which month?)

And please can U post the source of this info. Thanks.
 
Had an interview at Chicago with Dr. Kumar. I asked him about Robbins since I was curious and he said he was in the process of editing and that the next edition was coming out in May
 
I think Amazon has Robbins 8th for June 12, 2009. Not sure about the Rosai though (amazon lists only the 2004 edition).
 
One of my professors was in Boston last week and told my friend she saw a new Ackerman edition (10th),... is that possible? Even when amazon do not anounce anything about it....

Thanks!

I wonder because Sternberg will be released soon..... mmm Rosai too? I hope so!
 
Robbins professional!!! thanks for the info!

So, do you honestly think Rosai new ed. will be released this year?
A professor tols she saw the 10th ed??? I insist...... is that possible? any info will be appreciated
 
Thanks for the news.
I need Big Robbins, so Will wait. =)


I was told by one of the chapter writers that the big Robbins won't be reissued in the near future. I don't know if he meant that the current one will be the last one or the next one. He said the abbreviated one sells so much better.

But if someone knows Kumar and he says something different, then obviously that is the person to listen to.
 
He said the abbreviated one sells so much better.

😡 Why don't they just issue a version with the black and yellow stripes and call it a Cliffs notes version? I fear that in 30 years all physicians will be good at only one thing: regurgitating lists of facts, but be unable to correlate that list with anything in real life.
 
I was told by one of the chapter writers that the big Robbins won't be reissued in the near future. I don't know if he meant that the current one will be the last one or the next one. He said the abbreviated one sells so much better.

But if someone knows Kumar and he says something different, then obviously that is the person to listen to.

What is big Robbins? I have the 7th edition ~ 1500 page one. The 8th edition that I posted above appears to be similar size. Was there previously a larger one?

Or are you referring to Robbins Pathologic Basis of Disease vs Robbins Review of Pathology?
 
😡 Why don't they just issue a version with the black and yellow stripes and call it a Cliffs notes version? I fear that in 30 years all physicians will be good at only one thing: regurgitating lists of facts, but be unable to correlate that list with anything in real life.

Medical school was excellent preparation for this. Throughout the pre-clinical curriculum, many people stopped attending lectures and reading textbooks in favor of browsing BRS and High Yield a few days before exams. These people did quite well for themselves. During the clinical year, classmates took every opportunity to hide from residents and leave the wards early in order to essentially memorize Blueprints and Pre Test. Many of these people obtained honors and high praises on their evaluations and dean's letters without ever sticking around after rounds or cracking open a textbook. Usually, when attending physicians pimp medical students, they seem more interested in one word responses than they are in listening to a student explain the mechanism underlying disease or therapy. When there are multiple students present, praise is given to those who are able to spit out the correct answers the fastest. The USMLE examinations are largely a test of recall and those who are better at multiple choice exams tend to score higher than those who are not as adept at choosing the correct bubbles. It is no wonder that many students turn to USMLE World and Kaplan Q Bank to prepare for the boards. It's quite an efficient and intelligent strategy. Many of them score just fine by developing a rudimentary knowledge of "high yield" topics and by sharpening their abilities to recognize buzz words and question formats.

When it's time to apply and interview for residency, leverage is possessed by individuals who have demonstrated excellence in multiple choice testing. Given the competition between applicants over desirable specialties and the time demands of medical education, it is not a surprise that some students take as many shortcuts to match day as possible. Perhaps these come at the expense of knowledge. Is that knowledge necessary for every future physician? Does an undergraduate medical education consisting of BRS, High Yield, Blueprints, Pre Test, and USMLE World prepare students adequately to pursue graduate training? Is a sophisticated understanding of pathology and pathophysiology integral to the practice of evidenced based medicine? Exactly how much general medical knowledge is required for each individual specialty?

These were the very questions I struggled with while deciding on a medical specialty and also while having to divide my time between seeing patients, reading textbooks, reading abridged study materials by authors who seemed to know exactly what would appear on my exams, and enjoying my limited personal time.

It is understandably discouraging to those who got involved with medicine out of intellectual curiosity and enjoyment of the sciences that fact memorization and check lists have taken precedence over the sophisticated knowledge and passion for learning that physicians have historically demonstrated. On the other hand, there are still many medical students and physicians representing every specialty who are intellectually curious and push themselves to learn more than what is necessary to perform well on recall examinations. In every specialty, there will exist individuals of various levels of interest and commitment. Perhaps the shelves of medical school book stores are now filled with 200 page review guides, but the classic texts remain (in their tiny, crammed corner of the store... you have to sort of blow the dust off of the covers to see that they are there) and they will be revised... and even purchased and studied on occasion by some inspired students! The new Robbins professional version seems to be a full version and has approximately 1,500 pages 🙂
 
Last edited:
................... In every specialty, there will exist individuals of various levels of interest and commitment. Perhaps the shelves of medical school book stores are now filled with 200 page review guides, but the classic texts remain (in their tiny, crammed corner of the store... you have to sort of blow the dust off of the covers to see that they are there) and they will be revised... and even purchased and studied on occasion by some inspired students! The new Robbins professional version seems to be a full version and has approximately 1,500 pages 🙂

I completely agree...
I hate to memorize unuseful stuff!!!!

"Big" Robbins!, I meant the 1500 version (Pathologic basis of disease) and not because I was a HY student, because I have the 6th edition, the black/purple one, and I was worried about buying the 7th, with the 8th just around the corner....

On the other hand, About Rosai, it seems new editions are coming every 5, 6 7 or 8 years....then I wonder When new ed. will be available.....
I heard from a good source, that a draft already exist,so same situation....To buy or not to buy the 9th edition (2004)....

 
Medical school was excellent preparation for this. Throughout the pre-clinical curriculum, many people stopped attending lectures and reading textbooks in favor of browsing BRS and High Yield a few days before exams. These people did quite well for themselves. During the clinical year, classmates took every opportunity to hide from residents and leave the wards early in order to essentially memorize Blueprints and Pre Test. Many of these people obtained honors and high praises on their evaluations and dean's letters without ever sticking around after rounds or cracking open a textbook. Usually, when attending physicians pimp medical students, they seem more interested in one word responses than they are in listening to a student explain the mechanism underlying disease or therapy. When there are multiple students present, praise is given to those who are able to spit out the correct answers the fastest. The USMLE examinations are largely a test of recall and those who are better at multiple choice exams tend to score higher than those who are not as adept at choosing the correct bubbles. It is no wonder that many students turn to USMLE World and Kaplan Q Bank to prepare for the boards. It's quite an efficient and intelligent strategy. Many of them score just fine by developing a rudimentary knowledge of "high yield" topics and by sharpening their abilities to recognize buzz words and question formats.

When it's time to apply and interview for residency, leverage is possessed by individuals who have demonstrated excellence in multiple choice testing. Given the competition between applicants over desirable specialties and the time demands of medical education, it is not a surprise that some students take as many shortcuts to match day as possible. Perhaps these come at the expense of knowledge. Is that knowledge necessary for every future physician? Does an undergraduate medical education consisting of BRS, High Yield, Blueprints, Pre Test, and USMLE World prepare students adequately to pursue graduate training? Is a sophisticated understanding of pathology and pathophysiology integral to the practice of evidenced based medicine? Exactly how much general medical knowledge is required for each individual specialty?

These were the very questions I struggled with while deciding on a medical specialty and also while having to divide my time between seeing patients, reading textbooks, reading abridged study materials by authors who seemed to know exactly what would appear on my exams, and enjoying my limited personal time.

It is understandably discouraging to those who got involved with medicine out of intellectual curiosity and enjoyment of the sciences that fact memorization and check lists have taken precedence over the sophisticated knowledge and passion for learning that physicians have historically demonstrated. On the other hand, there are still many medical students and physicians representing every specialty who are intellectually curious and push themselves to learn more than what is necessary to perform well on recall examinations. In every specialty, there will exist individuals of various levels of interest and commitment. Perhaps the shelves of medical school book stores are now filled with 200 page review guides, but the classic texts remain (in their tiny, crammed corner of the store... you have to sort of blow the dust off of the covers to see that they are there) and they will be revised... and even purchased and studied on occasion by some inspired students! The new Robbins professional version seems to be a full version and has approximately 1,500 pages 🙂

So eloquently put. Finally somebody has stated what is so obviously wrong with undergraduate medical education. Gone are the days where students had a passion to learn medicine and to this end devoted many hours in reading the authoritative texts. As you state, the shortcut mentality learned during medical school has permeated through all fields of medical practice.

I believe, however, that this trend goes far beyond medicine. It is a reflection of our modern society's lack of interest in the why's of life. We have become intellectually dull and merely interested in achieving a life of comfort. This is in complete opposition to our ancestors' ferocious appetite for knowledge and their never ending efforts to learn why.
 
Medical school was excellent preparation for this. Throughout the pre-clinical curriculum, many people stopped attending lectures and reading textbooks in favor of browsing BRS and High Yield a few days before exams. These people did quite well for themselves. During the clinical year, classmates took every opportunity to hide from residents and leave the wards early in order to essentially memorize Blueprints and Pre Test. Many of these people obtained honors and high praises on their evaluations and dean's letters without ever sticking around after rounds or cracking open a textbook. Usually, when attending physicians pimp medical students, they seem more interested in one word responses than they are in listening to a student explain the mechanism underlying disease or therapy. When there are multiple students present, praise is given to those who are able to spit out the correct answers the fastest. The USMLE examinations are largely a test of recall and those who are better at multiple choice exams tend to score higher than those who are not as adept at choosing the correct bubbles. It is no wonder that many students turn to USMLE World and Kaplan Q Bank to prepare for the boards. It's quite an efficient and intelligent strategy. Many of them score just fine by developing a rudimentary knowledge of "high yield" topics and by sharpening their abilities to recognize buzz words and question formats.

When it's time to apply and interview for residency, leverage is possessed by individuals who have demonstrated excellence in multiple choice testing. Given the competition between applicants over desirable specialties and the time demands of medical education, it is not a surprise that some students take as many shortcuts to match day as possible. Perhaps these come at the expense of knowledge. Is that knowledge necessary for every future physician? Does an undergraduate medical education consisting of BRS, High Yield, Blueprints, Pre Test, and USMLE World prepare students adequately to pursue graduate training? Is a sophisticated understanding of pathology and pathophysiology integral to the practice of evidenced based medicine? Exactly how much general medical knowledge is required for each individual specialty?

These were the very questions I struggled with while deciding on a medical specialty and also while having to divide my time between seeing patients, reading textbooks, reading abridged study materials by authors who seemed to know exactly what would appear on my exams, and enjoying my limited personal time.

It is understandably discouraging to those who got involved with medicine out of intellectual curiosity and enjoyment of the sciences that fact memorization and check lists have taken precedence over the sophisticated knowledge and passion for learning that physicians have historically demonstrated. On the other hand, there are still many medical students and physicians representing every specialty who are intellectually curious and push themselves to learn more than what is necessary to perform well on recall examinations. In every specialty, there will exist individuals of various levels of interest and commitment. Perhaps the shelves of medical school book stores are now filled with 200 page review guides, but the classic texts remain (in their tiny, crammed corner of the store... you have to sort of blow the dust off of the covers to see that they are there) and they will be revised... and even purchased and studied on occasion by some inspired students! The new Robbins professional version seems to be a full version and has approximately 1,500 pages 🙂

So eloquently put. Finally somebody has stated what is so obviously wrong with undergraduate medical education. Gone are the days where students had a passion to learn medicine and to this end devoted many hours in reading the authoritative texts. As you state, the shortcut mentality learned during medical school has permeated through all fields of medical practice.

I believe, however, that this trend goes far beyond medicine. It is a reflection of our modern society's lack of interest in the why's of life. We have become intellectually dull and merely interested in achieving a life of comfort. This is in complete opposition to our ancestors' ferocious appetite for knowledge and their never ending efforts to learn why.


I beg to differ with your viewpoints. I never read ANY full-sized text during medical school and relied a lot on BRS and other review materials, but I certainly worked my butt off. There was no "lack of interest" or lack of "passion to learn medicine". Maybe some people just struggle with full length text books. They may get lost in the details and miss the point, or more likely, fall asleep trying to wade through wordy details that often are too in-depth.

I loved pathophysiology (honored it at my school) but I didn't buy/read the full text. I found that the review books gave me what I needed to know to have a foundation and as further questions arose on top of that I would go to other sources to build my knowledge (even occassionally to (gasp) a full textbook).

I find it funny that you berate medical students who do well on the Steps as though they are dumb and lazy, yet the point is, those tests are what is used to gauge medical students when applying to residency. If you chose not to study for those tests with books designed solely for that purpose, then that is your problem. You take the same test as those whom you call intellectually dull and if you scored lower than them, then I ask who is the intellectually dull one?

Regarding those medical students that were able to impress the attendings with the knowledge they gained from said review books, does it cheapen the victory in any way? No, of course not. Who cares where the information was gleaned, if a student knows the answer, they deserve praise. Obviously if the student is skipping rounds and not learning the "why" or the pathophysiology then they will look dumb eventually, but to say that review books are the problem is silly. It sounds like somebody didn't do to well on an exam and is trying to make themselves feel better by calling themselves real doctors with "passion for learning" etc. while putting down their collegues who chose a different/easier/smarter way.
 
I beg to differ with your viewpoints.

Pathdude999 and I express separate viewpoints. I think you misinterpreted my post. I do not accuse anyone of being lazy or unintelligent. Someone can be passionate about learning and rely heavily on review materials given the inherent time constraints and competition of a medical education. I refer to pimping to illustrate how medical students are conditioned to provide short answers instead of longer explanations when being assessed for fund of knowledge. I refer to review materials as efficient and intelligent strategies for board preparation. I ask a few questions but do not arrive at a conclusion. I believe you attributed the sentiments of other contributors to my original post. I would not go around berating colleagues.
 
Last edited:
I really must chime in with my own thoughts here.

I'm part of the camp that thinks standardized tests are in large part BS, and I have some pretty strong feelings about it. For the people who think my opinion is biased due to jealousy over not doing well on the USMLE exams, I will just let it be known I scored in the high 250s on steps I and II.

Now imagine the whole body of known medical knowledge being contained in a rectangle. Let's imagine the rectangle to be as big as a football field. Standardized tests only measure a tiny fraction of known medical knowledge. So the medical knowledge necessary for doing well on the boards could be contained in, let's say, one hash marking on the football field.

Now let's say we have two medical students. One spends just two hours a day studying review books (what's in the hash marking). Let's say the other one goes to clinic all the time to learn real world stuff, reads review books and textbooks, and uses common sense to avoid studying some material that could be testable but is worthless knowledge in the real world (in other words this person is studying what is in the whole football field). And let's say this second medical student works a hell of a lot harder than the first medical student and is, in general, just more competent in the real world and has lots more medical knowledge.

Now they both take the USMLE, and the first medical student scores higher, even though the second medical student works harder and has much more medical knowledge than the first student, and is a more competent person in the real world.

Here's the conversation that will ensue between some ******ed medical students that find out the board scores of the students I having been talking about. We'll call them Bubbles and Meathead:

Bubbles - OMG! Like medical student one is so smart he only has to study the night before and scores the highest. OMG! I'm ******ed! OMG!

Meathead - Yeah, medical student two is a *******. He works so hard but he just gets by.

Later that day in the hospital medical student 1, medical student 2, Bubbles, and Meathead are seeing a patient. The patient codes. Medical student 2 without hesitation performs ACLS protocol and saves the patient's life while Bubbles is playing with her hair, Meathead is flexing his muscles, and medical student 1 has buzzwords flying through his head trying to figure out how to use the buzzwords to save the patient's life.

This conversation ensues:

Bubbles - I'm glad medical student 2 saved the patient's life cuz I didn't know what to do

Meathead - Yeah, it was craaaazy. That was funny how medical student 1 was just standing there. Medical student 2 is weird isn't he? I mean he studied ACLS stuff and it's not like we're getting tested over it any time soon.

Bubbles - Yeah, but medical student 1 is so smart don't you remember his board score. It's funny, you wouldn't think that considering that he is completely useless in the real world. But obviously he's smarter and more competent than medical student 2 because he scored higher on the test.

Meathead - You know what else is funny is that we're too stupid and immature to realize that our implicit definition of intelligence is scoring high on tests in school instead of being competent in the real world and making a contribution to society.
 
As someone who had mediocre grades and Step I/II scores I have some perspective on this. People who do really well on steps and board exams have a great deal of medical knowledge and lots of them use that knowledge to become very good clinically. There some high scorers that seem to have either little understanding or little desire and are poor clinicians when the attending isn't there to impress. (This happens much less often than us low-achievers would believe).

I do believe that the standardize tests are a bonus to those who are excellent at memorization. I'd say that USMLE and NBME scores have excellent positive predictive values and low negative predictive values.
 
I too must chime in... Psychopathology & PathApp 👍👍👍
 
I am going in to pathology, and I have to admit, I did not read big Robbins in med school. I really liked my pathology class, but there was just not time in the day (or room in my bookbag) fit in all of Big Robbins. Some people bragged about reading all of Robbins in my class. I personally am a terrible memorizer. Some people can sit down and read a book like Robbins and retain information...but I can't. So I used my time wisely, read medium Robbins instead, and reviewed for my test with BRS and questions. I did fine. At the end of the day, we've all got to know the same stuff, and how you manage to cram it into your head is your own buisiness.
 
Top