When should I realistically start doing research/ volunteering/etc for reapplication?

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

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So far have had one interview, which turned to waitlist(wayne), am i cooked that i stopped most my activities after applying? When should I start doing those things again for reapplication? And also is it better to take a gap year(im finishing college in June 2025) and spend tons of time on ECs before reapplying or should i just reapply next year if i dont get in? There arent any major holes in my app other than missing research, and not having too much to say for “leadership”. I wont have a ton of time for activities until after i graduate in june but Im sure i can dedicate like 5h per week, just dont want to waste tons of time on stuff like that if i end up getting an acceptance in feb or march. How long do schools want to see that you were doing stuff for before reapplying?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What is your WAMC profile?

You should not stop your activities during the application cycle while your wait for an offer, especially if you are lacking last year.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Right now

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

What is your WAMC profile?

You should not stop your activities during the application cycle while your wait for an offer, especially if your are lacking last year.

I dont know how helpful it is for me to continue doing the kind of volunteering i was doing before, (wheeling arounds patients in hospital, 150h), i had a lot of material from that experience to write about in my applications and kind of feel like i got most of the juice squeezed from my experience there, should i be trying to find different experiences instead? I honestly have no idea where to start or what experiences to be looking for, I will be contacting some ex-profs for research opportunity in lab aswell. Do i need more clinical stuff or should i look for tutoring, soup kitchen type of stuff cuz clinical experience is really hard to find

 

[eigen]

I dont know how helpful it is for me to continue doing the kind of volunteering i was doing before, (wheeling arounds patients in hospital, 150h), i had a lot of material from that experience to write about in my applications and kind of feel like i got most of the juice squeezed from my experience there, should i be trying to find different experiences instead? I honestly have no idea where to start or what experiences to be looking for, I will be contacting some ex-profs for research opportunity in lab aswell. Do i need more clinical stuff or should i look for tutoring, soup kitchen type of stuff cuz clinical experience is really hard to find

Is that your clinical and volunteer experience combined?

That's low on hours: I'd expect a minimum of 150 hours of volunteer work and another 150 hours of clinical experience for a solid application.

What experiences you look for are up to you: they're largely dictated by your interests and your skillset. If you have an EMT license, then do EMT work, for example. Scribing has it's pros and cons, but it's typically available with no prior experience or certification.

Is there any particular reason you're focusing on research experience? It's always a bonus, but it's not required for most medical schools and it's not where I'd focus when your clinical experience / volunteer time is lackluster.

In general, I don't recommend most students re-apply immediately after an unsuccessful cycle, especially if they've paused activities during their application year. Starting now you're not going to be able to do enough to materially change your application before you submit it in late May / early June.

Instead, focus on taking the next 18 months to really get the experiences you need for a competitive application (both while you finish your undergrad this Spring and as full-time work in the next year) and re-apply after a cycle off.

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

Is that your clinical and volunteer experience combined?

That's low on hours: I'd expect a minimum of 150 hours of volunteer work and another 150 hours of clinical experience for a solid application.

What experiences you look for are up to you: they're largely dictated by your interests and your skillset. If you have an EMT license, then do EMT work, for example. Scribing has it's pros and cons, but it's typically available with no prior experience or certification.

Is there any particular reason you're focusing on research experience? It's always a bonus, but it's not required for most medical schools and it's not where I'd focus when your clinical experience / volunteer time is lackluster.

In general, I don't recommend most students re-apply immediately after an unsuccessful cycle, especially if they've paused activities during their application year. Starting now you're not going to be able to do enough to materially change your application before you submit it in late May / early June.

Instead, focus on taking the next 18 months to really get the experiences you need for a competitive application (both while you finish your undergrad this Spring and as full-time work in the next year) and re-apply after a cycle off.

Yeah that sounds like a good plan, Ill apply MD and DO after the gap year. I want to do some research for my state school which has lots of research focus, but i agree its not a priority. I will probably want to do TAing or something like teach for america if i can get that to help show leadership, and then something clinical that is paid like a PT aide, and then a bit of research, is that good?

 

[eigen]

Yeah that sounds like a good plan, Ill apply MD and DO after the gap year. I want to do some research for my state school which has lots of research focus, but i agree its not a priority. I will probably want to do TAing or something like teach for america if i can get that to help show leadership, and then something clinical that is paid like a PT aide, and then a bit of research, is that good?

I think I'd encourage you to have one major focus during your gap year, and then maybe fill in some of your evenings and weekends with other things. In my experience, students who piece together "a bit of this, a bit of that" have less convincing gap years.

So apply for a post-bac research program that will pay you to do full time research, or TFA that will have you doing full time teaching, or get a FT job as a scribe.

You mention PT aide. I don't think this is bad, but be prepared to answer the question of why MD/DO not PT if you're doing PT aide as your clinical experience.

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

I think I'd encourage you to have one major focus during your gap year, and then maybe fill in some of your evenings and weekends with other things. In my experience, students who piece together "a bit of this, a bit of that" have less convincing gap years.

So apply for a post-bac research program that will pay you to do full time research, or TFA that will have you doing full time teaching, or get a FT job as a scribe.

You mention PT aide. I don't think this is bad, but be prepared to answer the question of why MD/DO not PT if you're doing PT aide as your clinical experience.

i really just want to fill in the gaps of my app, which seems like teaching(leadership) and something like pt aide or scribe(clinical experience) could fulfill, are those two things too many? I mean 6 months of both of those seem fine to me and would guve me a lot more to talk about. Doing a full research program seems less important, i really just want like 50-100h to check the research box so my app is complete, is that even a thing i can do? Like can i email my old biochem profs and ask to get involved for a couple hours per week or is that useless?

 

[eigen]

No offense intended, but your answers seem to come across as wanting to do the absolute minimum possible, and that is not a winning approach for a successful application.

I can't speak to your old biochemistry prof, but I would have zero willingness to have someone spend 50-100 hours in my lab to check a box. That would be useless time spent for me, and it would cost me in lab supplies and my time. And it wouldn't actually be enough time for you to learn anything about research.

Thinking about things as "checking boxes" or "getting enough to talk about in my application materials" is a poor approach. If you're truly interested in healthcare, you should be interested in continuing to work in healthcare at an entry level past the bare minimum you need for "checking a box" for medical school.

And while a few hundred hours is the minimum, remember that you're competing against applicants with thousands of hours. Why do you think a committee would take someone with a bare minimum of time over someone that's shown deep commitment to patient care and community service and gained skills along with it?

 

[LindaAccepted]

So far have had one interview, which turned to waitlist(wayne), am i cooked that i stopped most my activities after applying? When should I start doing those things again for reapplication? And also is it better to take a gap year(im finishing college in June 2025) and spend tons of time on ECs before reapplying or should i just reapply next year if i dont get in? There arent any major holes in my app other than missing research, and not having too much to say for “leadership”. I wont have a ton of time for activities until after i graduate in june but Im sure i can dedicate like 5h per week, just dont want to waste tons of time on stuff like that if i end up getting an acceptance in feb or march. How long do schools want to see that you were doing stuff for before reapplying?

ASAP.

Whether you should apply this year or take a gap year depends on what you've done. From your posts in this thread (a WAMC post would be helpful), it appears that you either have had other obligations or have taken a minimalist approach to the non-academic aspects of med school preparation. In that case, a gap year is probably the best way to go.

In addition, as @eigen points out, you may also want to be more enthusiastic about the profession you profess to want to pursue. If it's just a matter of box-checking or doing the minimum, realize that some of your competition is doing everything they can academically and non-academically to get accepted. Also, enthusiasm and passion is really hard to fake, and it's something that med school admissions committees want to see. Finally, if medicine is not something you are passionate about, do you really want to go through all the hard work of medical school, residency, and medical practice?

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

No offense intended, but your answers seem to come across as wanting to do the absolute minimum possible, and that is not a winning approach for a successful application.

I can't speak to your old biochemistry prof, but I would have zero willingness to have someone spend 50-100 hours in my lab to check a box. That would be useless time spent for me, and it would cost me in lab supplies and my time. And it wouldn't actually be enough time for you to learn anything about research.

Thinking about things as "checking boxes" or "getting enough to talk about in my application materials" is a poor approach. If you're truly interested in healthcare, you should be interested in continuing to work in healthcare at an entry level past the bare minimum you need for "checking a box" for medical school.

And while a few hundred hours is the minimum, remember that you're competing against applicants with thousands of hours. Why do you think a committee would take someone with a bare minimum of time over someone that's shown deep commitment to patient care and community service and gained skills along with it?

For me research is checking a box because i have no interest in it yet it is something that medical schools want to see, especially my state school, maybe it is not worth doing considering my application isnt really research focused, but i do think it would be interesting to learn more about it, since its hard for me to say for sure that i hate it without any experience doing it. But you are correct that i want to do the minimum necessary to get into med school, i like learning about biochemistry a lot and i like the patient care aspects, im not a fan of every single aspect of medicine and i view medicine as a career not as an opportunity to bless the world like im jesus christ or something. My goal is to spend the next year doing things that give me the best chances of getting accepted, i think i would really like tutoring or teaching, not sure about being a scribe, sounds aweful tbh, but pt aid sounds cool. Im really just trying to pick things that are best for my success and that i might enjoy and be able to talk about. I do want to show commitment, so maybe im better off doing two things at the same time rather than spacing them out one after another

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

ASAP.

Whether you should apply this year or take a gap year depends on what you've done. From your posts in this thread (a WAMC post would be helpful), it appears that you either have had other obligations or have taken a minimalist approach to the non-academic aspects of med school preparation. In that case, a gap year is probably the best way to go.

In addition, as @eigen points out, you may also want to be more enthusiastic about the profession you profess to want to pursue. If it's just a matter of box-checking or doing the minimum, realize that some of your competition is doing everything they can academically and non-academically to get accepted. Also, enthusiasm and passion is really hard to fake, and it's something that med school admissions committees want to see. Finally, if medicine is not something you are passionate about, do you really want to go through all the hard work of medical school, residency, and medical practice?

i spent most of my time in college worrying about grades because i know they cant be changed after you graduate. My focus will soon shift to non academic stuff once i graduate

 

[AJS59]

1. Take a gap year
2. If you're going to engage in research, engage in it not with the mindset of box checking, but rather genuine interest in the projects, no matter how non-medical they are.
3. Look into non-clinical volunteering (soup kitchen is good) on top of any additional clinical experience you can imagine
4. Do some deep soul searching — there's no rushing this application. I'd even go as so far to ask yourself that if you view this as box checking, then is medical school something that you really WANT to do, and if so why? If you're only looking at medicine because of social/family pressure or as a way to get high income, there are plenty of other paths (with less rigorous training and significant less debt demands) available to you. But if you care (and I truly mean CARE) about helping patients, being the leader of the healthcare team, and dealing with people at their absolute most vulnerable states, then that's a sign you should continue.

 

[eigen]

not sure about being a scribe, sounds aweful tbh, but pt aid sounds cool.

This brings me back to my "why are you pursuing medicine and not physical therapy". What is it about being a scribe that sounds awful? Why are you so much more interested in being a PT aide than working with physicians?

 

[cj_cregg]

This brings me back to my "why are you pursuing medicine and not physical therapy". What is it about being a scribe that sounds awful? Why are you so much more interested in being a PT aide than working with physicians?

Not to mention, the majority of physicians don't have a scribe, and spend over half their day doing exactly what scribes do! So if being a scribe sounds awful, just imagine being a doctor lol.

 

[eigen]

Not to mention, the majority of physicians don't have a scribe, and spend over half their day doing exactly what scribes do! So if being a scribe sounds awful, just imagine being a doctor lol.

Yup.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Doing a full research program seems less important, i really just want like 50-100h to check the research box so my app is complete, is that even a thing i can do?

Just to be explicit--no, this is not a thing. If you don't want to do research, then it's better to own that rather than trying to halfheartedly do something to check a box. Doing 50 hours of BS "research" where you're washing the dishes and setting the autoclave isn't going to fool anyone.

As others have said, you are really coming off as wanting to do the bare minimum to get in. Specifically, quitting all of your "box checking" activities when you applied may have seemed like a red flag when they asked in the interview about what you're currently doing. While I'm not going to sit here and tell you that being a scribe or doing patient transport are the most exciting activities... frankly, most professions require you to have some crappy entry level position before you get to do anything cool. Put in your dues, show that you're committed, and do more than the bare minimum to show that you really want this.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Perhaps we have gained insight why the OP made alternate status...

 

[Arbitas]

OP, just know that there are plenty of other professions in healthcare that are well compensated while not requiring nearly as much schooling or sacrifice as being a physician.

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

Not to mention, the majority of physicians don't have a scribe, and spend over half their day doing exactly what scribes do! So if being a scribe sounds awful, just imagine being a doctor lol.

This brings me back to my "why are you pursuing medicine and not physical therapy". What is it about being a scribe that sounds awful? Why are you so much more interested in being a PT aide than working with physicians?

yeah this is a very good point, i will definitely start scribing next quarter once im done with pchem. All ive heard about it on reddit is that students find it grueling with very little patient interaction but i think its worth knowing what im getting into with medicine. I had very positive experiences shadowing IM and gas tho. I know that physicians spend like half their time on clerical stuff, IM especially, so my focus is primarily on ones that minimize that, like gas. Gas is my dream, but yeah maybe medicine is not worth it idk i think scribing for a year will help me make that decision a bit better. (for reference my app this year is a bit rushed, there is a lot of pressure to get into med schools riight after graduating)

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

This brings me back to my "why are you pursuing medicine and not physical therapy". What is it about being a scribe that sounds awful? Why are you so much more interested in being a PT aide than working with physicians?

Im now thinking maybe Caa is a better choice tbh. I applied md because i like the cognitive aspects of medecine, i really want to learn physiology, biology, biochem, and just have a full knowledge of the human body, but i hate research, which is the typical path for people with my interests aside from being doctors, but yeah maybe that itch would be scratched by doing CAA? i also like the meaningfulness of longitudinal patient care btw, like small amounts of patient interaction is important

 

[AJS59]

Im now thinking maybe Caa is a better choice tbh. I applied md because i like the cognitive aspects of medecine, i really want to learn physiology, biology, biochem, and just have a full knowledge of the human body, but i hate research, which is the typical path for people with my interests aside from being doctors, but yeah maybe that itch would be scratched by doing CAA? i also like the meaningfulness of longitudinal patient care btw, like small amounts of patient interaction is important

Longitudinal patient care doesn't really square particularly well with anesthesia - either the CAA or Anesthesiologist route.

I'd recommend you shadow, in no particular order: a CAA, an anesthesiologist, and some primary care doctors so that way you can determine a. Do I want to be a doctor or CAA and b. If I want to be a doctor, do I want that longitudinal care?

 

[ron_johnson]

fwiw I was a scribe for 3 years and I think it was super educational for me (current m1)

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

fwiw I was a scribe for 3 years and I think it was super educational for me (current m1)

good to know, do you think it was able to tell you what being a doctor is like in terms of the bad or harsh reality of being a doctor? anything you learned that you didnt know prior?

 

[Dr. Fiddlesticks]

Longitudinal patient care doesn't really square particularly well with anesthesia - either the CAA or Anesthesiologist route.

I'd recommend you shadow, in no particular order: a CAA, an anesthesiologist, and some primary care doctors so that way you can determine a. Do I want to be a doctor or CAA and b. If I want to be a doctor, do I want that longitudinal care?

yeah true, theres not really anything that fits everything im into, longitudinal patient care is only really possible in speicalites that have insane clerical work so for me the lack of clerical makes up for it, but also anes. also has like short term progress, talking to patients before and after surgery and seeing them leave happy is nice to me, really just seeing progress irl is important to me, anad talking to patients

 

[sciencerules135]

good to know, do you think it was able to tell you what being a doctor is like in terms of the bad or harsh reality of being a doctor? anything you learned that you didnt know prior?

I scribed for a bit but have mainly been an MA. THAT taught me a lot about the harsh reality of a doctor for sure. Being a doctor is almost more dealing with paper work and insurance than it is patients. Theres a lot of logistics that SUCK and that was important for me to understand. I think scribing and MA also teach you a lot about responsibility and learning the sacrifices you will have to make as a doctor going forward. However, it has not deterred me and that was most likely the most important thing for me to discover. If you are put off from paper work and scribing, medicine is not for you.

 

[ron_johnson]

good to know, do you think it was able to tell you what being a doctor is like in terms of the bad or harsh reality of being a doctor? anything you learned that you didnt know prior?

Yeah I learned a ton. Besides writing charts I also did MA duties, triaged phone calls, did prior auths, called patients about test results, managed imaging orders/appointments, tracked down records, washed instruments, and a million other things. One of the surgeons would have us present patients to him as if we were already medical students. "Bad" things I observed were dealing with unreasonable patients, insurance BS, patients with anxiety-induced symptoms, lazy/buck passing coworkers, and bad clinic management, to name a few. Overall it was great though, I can't wait to be done with preclinicals and back in clinic.

 

[ron_johnson]

Not to mention, the majority of physicians don't have a scribe, and spend over half their day doing exactly what scribes do! So if being a scribe sounds awful, just imagine being a doctor lol.

If you hate spending time doing documentation you can hire a scribe though. Private practice ftw, control your destiny.

 

[cj_cregg]

If you hate spending time doing documentation you can hire a scribe though. Private practice ftw, control your destiny.

It is not quite that simple unfortunately. Private practice comes with pros and cons as well.

 

[Heyigotnoclue]

In regards to being a PT aide. I am currently working as one. I spend the entire day with patients, assisting with exercises, applying ice etc. I do not want to be a PT, but it is the ONLY position I could get, and I need to work and have health insurance. Would be be ok to actually say this in an interview?? Seems there is the the ideal path to getting all the EC's and the realistic, although not perfect, path.

 

[AJS59]

In regards to being a PT aide. I am currently working as one. I spend the entire day with patients, assisting with exercises, applying ice etc. I do not want to be a PT, but it is the ONLY position I could get, and I need to work and have health insurance. Would be be ok to actually say this in an interview?? Seems there is the the ideal path to getting all the EC's and the realistic, although not perfect, path.

It's workable. Just be sure to underscore why you don't want to do PT, and be sure to seek out other clinical experience if possible

 

[candbgirl]

In regards to being a PT aide. I am currently working as one. I spend the entire day with patients, assisting with exercises, applying ice etc. I do not want to be a PT, but it is the ONLY position I could get, and I need to work and have health insurance. Would be be ok to actually say this in an interview?? Seems there is the the ideal path to getting all the EC's and the realistic, although not perfect, path.

ADCOMS know people have to work to pay the bills etc so that shouldn’t be an issue in explaining your PTA job. BUT if that’s your job, what are you doing in your off hours? You really have to get 150+ hours of patient care someplace else too. Like maybe volunteering at a hospital. It might open a door to a clinical job other that PTA. Or how about volunteering at a rehab hospital- working with trauma , stroke ,vets etc patients that require a true medical team approach to recovery. Or is that what you already do? If so you need to rethink your job. You might already have what is expected.

 

[Heyigotnoclue]

ADCOMS know people have to work to pay the bills etc so that shouldn’t be an issue in explaining your PTA job. BUT if that’s your job, what are you doing in your off hours? You really have to get 150+ hours of patient care someplace else too. Like maybe volunteering at a hospital. It might open a door to a clinical job other that PTA. Or how about volunteering at a rehab hospital- working with trauma , stroke ,vets etc patients that require a true medical team approach to recovery. Or is that what you already do? If so you need to rethink your job. You might already have what is expected.

Yes, I had already accumulated over 200 hours from voluteering in the ER as well as in a hospital rehab unit before this job. Both positions were direct patient interaction. The rehab aide is a gap year job to earn money. Also, I am volunteering at a soup kitchen weekly. Does not seem to be enough though. Radio silence from all schools.

 

[AJS59]

Yes, I had already accumulated over 200 hours from voluteering in the ER as well as in a hospital rehab unit before this job. Both positions were direct patient interaction. The rehab aide is a gap year job to earn money. Also, I am volunteering at a soup kitchen weekly. Does not seem to be enough though. Radio silence from all schools.

Have you posted a WAMC? The hours are certainly good but need to see more to maybe help identify what could've gone wrong

 

[candbgirl]

Here’s the grid mentioned above. It might be time to get so excellent advice from the experts.

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