when should I start realistically thinking about reapplication?

[premedbarista]

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Applied to 32 schools and so far 1 rejection and then complete silence. I know that many IIs come out in October, but I feel like the fact that I haven't gotten any interest yet as a high MCAT/relatively decent ECs profile means that my bad writing may have killed me. I'm trying SO hard not to be neurotic about this, but I'm genuinely worried I'm not going to get in anywhere and wondering at what point would it be time to think about preparing to reapply? like what the steps would be for that? I'm not even sure what I would do with an extra gap year - i've got clinical exp, service, research hours, etc all done already; I don't need and can't afford to take some sort of graduate classes like an SMP.

Basically having a hard time imagining what my next steps should be right now if I assume I'm going to have to reapply and would love advice on if I should give myself more time before thinking abt this or start preparing asap.
thanks!

 

[polymerization]

My plan was always to apply MD initially, but always with the caveat that if I didn't get any/enough attention by Thanksgiving, I'd apply DO. Like you, I don't know what I would do to improve aside from playing the "improve my metrics by fractions of a point/sacrificing aimless hours at the altar of community service in view of the thousands of hours I already have" game.

Until then, we continue to wake up in the middle of the night, frantically opening our inboxes, hoping the dream that roused us from sleep materializes in real life, too.

Cheers to asking this question at 4 am (or earlier), my sleepless friend. May the sandman visit before the sun rises.

 

[premedbarista]

My plan was always to apply MD initially, but always with the caveat that if I didn't get any/enough attention by Thanksgiving, I'd apply DO. Like you, I don't know what I would do to improve aside from playing the "improve my metrics by fractions of a point/sacrificing aimless hours at the altar of community service in view of the thousands of hours I already have" game.

Until then, we continue to wake up in the middle of the night, frantically opening our inboxes, hoping the dream that roused us from sleep materializes in real life, too.

Cheers to asking this question at 4 am (or earlier), my sleepless friend. May the sandman visit before the sun rises.

I work night shift so most of my posts on here are in the middle of the night 🤣

 

[Butalbusaur]

Applied to 32 schools and so far 1 rejection and then complete silence. I know that many IIs come out in October, but I feel like the fact that I haven't gotten any interest yet as a high MCAT/relatively decent ECs profile means that my bad writing may have killed me. I'm trying SO hard not to be neurotic about this, but I'm genuinely worried I'm not going to get in anywhere and wondering at what point would it be time to think about preparing to reapply? like what the steps would be for that? I'm not even sure what I would do with an extra gap year - i've got clinical exp, service, research hours, etc all done already; I don't need and can't afford to take some sort of graduate classes like an SMP.

Basically having a hard time imagining what my next steps should be right now if I assume I'm going to have to reapply and would love advice on if I should give myself more time before thinking abt this or start preparing asap.
thanks!

As the GOAT LizzyM says: Thanksgiving is when you should start panicking. You should always be trying to improve your application throughout this process, but I have faith you’ll get some love at some point.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Previously,

Thread 'WAMC + School list + questions - 523/3.85 and very lost please help <3'

Jan 30, 2025

Hello 🙂 mainly looking for suggestions on anything I can do to spruce up my application before I apply in May/June, advice on what schools I should be applying to, and answers to some specific questions I left in the post. sorry for the length lol I am a yapper but I appreciate anyone taking time to read this.

Demographics/stats:

• White trans man, originally from a state in the midwest
  • Question: Do I count as a CA resident or not for admissions?? I have a CA license and pay taxes/work/have an apartment here but my parents are still in the midwest state that is...

• premedbarista
• school list
• Replies: 5
• Forum: What Are My Chances? WAMC Medical

AMCAS school offers begin with Early Decision announcements October 1, and Regular Decision beginning October 15. More IIs should come once those with offers begin giving up interview spots to schools that are not high on their lists.

We always encourage applicants with offers to narrow down their choices as soon as they have made a final decision. But in light of current unknowns with financial aid, it is possible there may not be as much movement, so you might have to wait a bit for more IIs.

 

[LizzyM]

If you volunteer because you like helping people, then you should continue volunteering.
If you have engaged in research because you are curious and want to discover the yet undiscovered, you should continue to engage in research, either paid or volunteer.
The point is, you should continue to do those things you did because you loved them. If they support your reapplication, great. If they don't, you might wonder why you are applying at all.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

I am in my fifth application cycle. I know the feeling, but a reapplication will not kill you. I am actually really glad I have taken this much time (minus the finances) because I have found a field I really want to explore and the community of people I want to serve as a physician. As previously stated, continue doing things you enjoy and you will end up where you need to be. I know the uncertainty is scary, but it can also be so liberating to see how much freedom you have to explore during this period of your life.

 

[chilly_md]

You have a strong applicant profile. Wait till November to see how things are going. In terms of things to change if you do have to reapply, it would be likely writing and thinking about if there could be any potential poor LOR's. With 32 schools and the prior feedback provided, you likely applied broadly enough.

 

[Goro]

Applied to 32 schools and so far 1 rejection and then complete silence. I know that many IIs come out in October, but I feel like the fact that I haven't gotten any interest yet as a high MCAT/relatively decent ECs profile means that my bad writing may have killed me. I'm trying SO hard not to be neurotic about this, but I'm genuinely worried I'm not going to get in anywhere and wondering at what point would it be time to think about preparing to reapply? like what the steps would be for that? I'm not even sure what I would do with an extra gap year - i've got clinical exp, service, research hours, etc all done already; I don't need and can't afford to take some sort of graduate classes like an SMP.

Basically having a hard time imagining what my next steps should be right now if I assume I'm going to have to reapply and would love advice on if I should give myself more time before thinking abt this or start preparing asap.
thanks!

Start planning at Tgiving.

 

[FairEver]

I apologize for this post in advance. I just couldn’t resist.

I checked out the profile of OP. He is a genius. He has 99th percentile MCAT score, 3.85 GPA, more than 1000 hours of research , clinical experience and non clinical volunteering. Why are we even discussing about him reapplying? Why aren’t we asking ourselves what the heck is wrong with our admission process? Why are we humiliating our own smart people instead of respecting and rewarding them? Is this the message we like to send our kids in elementary schools and middle schools?

On the other hand, just a few days ago, I saw a job posting on indeed begging H1Bs to apply for anesthesiologist positions for $550k salary. I am not kidding.

What the hell is wrong with us? Where the hell are going as a nation? Are we stopped being a nation that respect our fellow citizens and the nation? Have we lost the capacity to identify, understand and solve a problem? I am petrified and angry.

 

[polymerization]

 

[Heyigotnoclue]

I feel your sense of angst. I also have strong stats, all boxes checked, no red flags, on second cycle. I feel as though a lot of us are simply a dime a dozen. I also think admissions is looking for "other' in the sense of unusual experiences that make us stand out. Like I said in a previous post, I am ready to tag lobsters for the aquarium and scuba dive to scrape barnacles off their marine vessels. Maybe that will get their attention. I know how funny that sounds, but I am not joking - just incredibly frustrated. All we can do is stay the course for now, but also keep in the back of our minds that at some point we cut our losses and transition to another career.

 

[FairEver]

I feel your sense of angst. I also have strong stats, all boxes checked, no red flags, on second cycle. I feel as though a lot of us are simply a dime a dozen. I also think admissions is looking for "other' in the sense of unusual experiences that make us stand out. Like I said in a previous post, I am ready to tag lobsters for the aquarium and scuba dive to scrape barnacles off their marine vessels. Maybe that will get their attention. I know how funny that sounds, but I am not joking - just incredibly frustrated. All we can do is stay the course for now, but also keep in the back of our minds that at some point we cut our losses and transition to another career.

We are creating two problems here for ourselves with this comedy call medical school admission process. On the one hand, the system is humiliating, insulting, penalizing smart people like you and OP. It discourages and scares away thousands of smart people from pursuing medicine. You guys might be able to transition to another career. But how about the patient population? They lose some of the brightest minds as their potential physicians. How do you compensate that?

A few days ago, one medical school Adcom posted an AMA thread. Here is the piece from his post. It explains what kind of comedy is our admission process and what kind of dumb people are reviewing the applications and entrusted with the responsibility of picking our future physicians.

“a graduate with a PhD in a science from a prestigious university is applying, 4.0 undergrad, 100th percentile on MCAT, 2 first author papers in Nature. Hundreds of volunteer hours and other clinic work. However, the application stated that he wanted to be a primary care MD for the underserved. No correlation and story made no sense. Rejection”’

Can it get anymore stupid and comical than this? Why should some stupid story has become more important than 4.0 and a 100th percentile MCAT score? He has done everything he is asked for and a lot more. What relevancy a stupid story brings here? I am not a doctor. But are the people writing story, screenplay and dialogues for movies in medical schools? When patients visit doctors, do they write a story on patients’ ailments, diagnosis and treatment? Is it a crime if a smart guy with 4.0 and 100th percentile to become a primary care physician? If we respect and regard only mediocrity, we will become only mediocre. Probably, this Adcom (a physician) got into medical school with 3.1 and 490 equivalent. That’s he has so much hatred and animosity towards high stat applicants .

 

[FairEver]

I feel your sense of angst. I also have strong stats, all boxes checked, no red flags, on second cycle. I feel as though a lot of us are simply a dime a dozen. I also think admissions is looking for "other' in the sense of unusual experiences that make us stand out. Like I said in a previous post, I am ready to tag lobsters for the aquarium and scuba dive to scrape barnacles off their marine vessels. Maybe that will get their attention. I know how funny that sounds, but I am not joking - just incredibly frustrated. All we can do is stay the course for now, but also keep in the back of our minds that at some point we cut our losses and transition to another career.

Here is another golden insight from this Adcom.

“the committee we could care less that this person scored 85th percentile and the other scored 100th percentile”

There is a race where 80,000 people participate. For these geniuses practicing “holistic comedy “, the person who came 1st and the on who finished 16,000th are all the same. Then why do need the race and torture the people? Make it a full blown comedy and pick our future physicians by lottery.

 

[Butalbusaur]

On the other hand, just a few days ago, I saw a job posting on indeed begging H1Bs to apply for anesthesiologist positions for $550k salary. I am not kidding.

Post a link to that job posting here in the threads so we can see.

The number of IMGs on H1Bs that are anesthesiologists are so small compared to US MD/DO anesthesiologists. One job posting for an IMG is not taking away from our home grown physicians. I promise you that.

Also, anesthesia and other specialties across the board are experiencing shortages that need to be supplemented by IMGs on H1B visas. Heck, primary care residency positions are filled by those on H1B visas because they go unfilled after the match every year. I don’t want to state false figures but I think that number is thousands.

I feel your sense of angst. I also have strong stats, all boxes checked, no red flags, on second cycle. I feel as though a lot of us are simply a dime a dozen. I also think admissions is looking for "other' in the sense of unusual experiences that make us stand out.

Admissions committees do give looks to those with higher stats first. There’s no question to that. If you applied to a top heavy list of schools, there has to be something that makes you stand out. It doesn’t have to be earth shattering, but a compelling narrative with experiences that connect takes you further than someone with the same stats that only checked boxes.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

On the other hand, just a few days ago, I saw a job posting on indeed begging H1Bs to apply for anesthesiologist positions for $550k salary. I am not kidding.

You have heard of ghost job postings, right?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/22/ghost-jobs-why-fake-job-listings-are-on-the-rise.html

 

[Mr.Smile12]

We are creating two problems here for ourselves with this comedy call medical school admission process. On the one hand, the system is humiliating, insulting, penalizing smart people like you and OP. It discourages and scares away thousands of smart people from pursuing medicine. You guys might be able to transition to another career.

Just you wait, Henry Higgins.

Just wait until you get into medical school.

Admissions Committees: The Art of the Decision | SDN Review

Abstract: Faculty serve three to four year terms on admissions committees, so they can vary significantly year-to-year with shifting priorities over time.

www.studentdoctor.net

Medical schools know that even the smartest 1% often burnout/drop out/fail out. I need not point out the med-influencers who talked about walking away from school or their residencies.

But how about the patient population? They lose some of the brightest minds as their potential physicians. How do you compensate that?

That's why we need health professionals in many fields, not just doctors (i.e., MD/DOs).

Of course, we can encourage more midlevels or the DNP. Cheaper and deploying sooner than the long school+residency+fellowship route. Discuss.

 

[Butalbusaur]

Here is another golden insight from this Adcom.

“the committee we could care less that this person scored 85th percentile and the other scored 100th percentile”

There is a race where 80,000 people participate. For these geniuses practicing “holistic comedy “, the person who came 1st and the on who finished 16,000th are all the same. Then why do need the race and torture the people? Make it a full blown comedy and pick our future physicians by lottery.

There’s no correlation/association between good grades and how great you will be as a physician. Data has found that the MCAT can somewhat predict your score on STEP 1, but now that it’s P/F, it doesn’t really matter.

I like this sports analogy that my mentor taught me. Back in the 80s, NBA players weren’t as good as players that came after them in the 90s. Then in every decade forward, the caliber of player has continued to improve and the chances of making the NBA has gotten even more difficult. Sometimes, some people see certain players and scratch their heads wondering “Why isn’t this person in the league?”

Basketball and medical school admissions has evolved and our generation has to be better than years past. That’s how the game grows and advances. There will be moments where you see a player/applicant that you feel deserves a shot, but you’ll never truly know why they didn’t get one. Maybe they have all this talent, but they’re uncoachable? Or they don’t get along with teammates well? Or their work ethic sucks and they’ve skated by on pure athleticism (intellect).

That’s why grades don’t matter. Just like an NBA GM is spending money to invest in those draft-picks, medical schools are investing in us. That being said, it takes a lot of thought to determine if we’re worth investing in or not. It’s not some willy nilly process that you think it is. Are there politics involved? Sure. But I promise you it’s not as much as you think it is.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

I apologize for this post in advance. I just couldn’t resist.

Buddy, you thought “matriculant average MCAT” should be how medical schools are ranked when it has literally nothing to do with the quality of education a medical school gives. You place way too much emphasis on MCAT in your idea of what makes a competitive applicant when it has no predictive value for success in medical school after scoring above a 500.

A few days ago, one medical school Adcom posted an AMA thread. Here is the piece from his post. It explains what kind of comedy is our admission process and what kind of dumb people are reviewing the applications and entrusted with the responsibility of picking our future physicians.

“a graduate with a PhD in a science from a prestigious university is applying, 4.0 undergrad, 100th percentile on MCAT, 2 first author papers in Nature. Hundreds of volunteer hours and other clinic work. However, the application stated that he wanted to be a primary care MD for the underserved. No correlation and story made no sense. Rejection”’

Well, yes, but the issue with that persons story is it makes no sense. The inverse works here, too. Someone with high stats that has a bunch of service but no research applies to research heavy schools saying they want to do research makes me think they’re just telling me what I want to hear. Schools stress mission fits for a reason, so you have to understand what draws you to medicine and apply from there to make your school list match the schools missions. Otherwise, we’d have a bunch of people saying we want to help the underserved to just get into school, then switch to specialties in already overcrowded fields furthering doctor shortages in primary care and family medicine we so desperately need atm.

 

[LizzyM]

Someone with high stats that has a bunch of service but no research applies to research heavy schools saying they want to do research makes me think they’re just telling me what I want to hear. Schools stress mission fits for a reason, so you have to understand what draws you to medicine and apply from there to make your school list match the schools missions. Otherwise, we’d have a bunch of people saying we want to help the underserved to just get into school, then switch to specialties in already overcrowded fields furthering doctor shortages in primary care and family medicine we so desperately need atm.

Precisely. We know B.S. when we see it. If you want to say that you are interested in X, show us that you have tested that interest through volunteering or employment.

 

[Heyigotnoclue]

That’s why grades don’t matter.

While I agree that grades don't tell the entire story, I strongly believe grades are an important indicator to someone's ability and self-discipline. If we reduce medicine to a check-list (like the NP that I saw a few weeks ago that told me I had something based on said check list - she was wrong, by the way) to give us a diagnosis - then fine - it's achievable. But if we want a physician/NP/RPh/RN etc. that can think out of the box, understand the nuances of medicine or better yet, a surgeon with a creative mind that revolutionizes a procedure, then we need some modicum of higher intellect. My opinion only. As an aside, a good friend of mine that scored below a 500 on the MCAT and was admitted to 2 medical schools (because he was admitted based on "other" talents) has now failed out. Would he have made a good physician? Probably, but he just couldn't handle the rigor.

 

[karaya]

Why are we humiliating our own smart people instead of respecting and rewarding them?

The answer to your question is that MCAT and GPA test for a certain kind of intelligence. There's another, equally important intelligence that isn't represented by a number, which can be elicited in other ways (primarily the interview, despite Casper's best efforts), and is necessary to handle difficult conversations with patients who are at their wit's end. Those soft skills fall under AAMC's "professional" core competencies.

There's a lot more to the equation than that. But I find that people who grind this particular axe (standards are falling, etc etc) can never imagine that medicine is more than an algorithm for "diagnosis + drugs." It's an intensely social career. Case in point:

When patients visit doctors, do they write a story on patients’ ailments, diagnosis and treatment?

Yes. It's called the note.

 

[CDaFutureDocMan]

While I agree that grades don't tell the entire story, I strongly believe grades are an important indicator to someone's ability and self-discipline. If we reduce medicine to a check-list (like the NP that I saw a few weeks ago that told me I had something based on said check list - she was wrong, by the way) to give us a diagnosis - then fine - it's achievable. But if we want a physician/NP/RPh/RN etc. that can think out of the box, understand the nuances of medicine or better yet, a surgeon with a creative mind that revolutionizes a procedure, then we need some modicum of higher intellect. My opinion only. As an aside, a good friend of mine that scored below a 500 on the MCAT and was admitted to 2 medical schools (because he was admitted based on "other" talents) has now failed out. Would he have made a good physician? Probably, but he just couldn't handle the rigor.

This would be a fair point if GPA and MCAT scores were direct indicators of intellect. They aren't. Suppose a person had to take care of their parents during the school semester, which caused their GPA to suffer. Perhaps a student is also a world-class athlete who must juggle grades, sports, ECs, and the MCAT all at once. They could be Einstein himself and still score less than the kid who spent an entire 5 months purely studying for the MCAT. This is why we have holistic reviews (it should not be a shocker that an applicant's story should actually make sense. Different schools have different missions, and if you have to fabricate a mission then your application materials won't make sense).

This counterargument overlooks the nuance required to understand that MCAT scores and GPAs are highly unpredictable. I would argue that a person with high statistics and an inconsistent story is likely a red flag for most admissions committees.

 

[Butalbusaur]

While I agree that grades don't tell the entire story, I strongly believe grades are an important indicator to someone's ability and self-discipline. If we reduce medicine to a check-list (like the NP that I saw a few weeks ago that told me I had something based on said check list - she was wrong, by the way) to give us a diagnosis - then fine - it's achievable. But if we want a physician/NP/RPh/RN etc. that can think out of the box, understand the nuances of medicine or better yet, a surgeon with a creative mind that revolutionizes a procedure, then we need some modicum of higher intellect. My opinion only. As an aside, a good friend of mine that scored below a 500 on the MCAT and was admitted to 2 medical schools (because he was admitted based on "other" talents) has now failed out. Would he have made a good physician? Probably, but he just couldn't handle the rigor.

Not everyone who's applying to medical school can/will/wants to be a surgeon. Medical schools are committed to creating student bodies that are representative of the entire patient population and the needs of our society. That's why grades don't matter. They're looking for more than that because at the end of the day--patients are what matter.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

But if we want a physician/NP/RPh/RN etc. that can think out of the box, understand the nuances of medicine or better yet, a surgeon with a creative mind that revolutionizes a procedure, then we need some modicum of higher intellect. My opinion only.

You think GPA is an actual measure of intelligence or creativity? Schools teach students how to regurgitate information and that is also what the MCAT wants applicants to do to score well. There is not really any creativity or problem solving, you get that from lived experiences or higher education than undergrad. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s disingenuous to equate those two.

As an anecdote, since you gave one, I’ve got a friend doing a PhD at Stanford. He is one of the brightest people I’ve met and is graduating in only 4 years. He will probably own his own lab in his 30s. His undergrad GPA? Barely above 3.0. But what he’s publishing is gonna revolutionize medicine and will be something physicians in his specialization use constantly.

 

[wysdoc]

This thread has veered way off course of the original question, closing to further comments