When talking about changing the occlusal plane with clockwise/counter-clockwise rotation, doesn't it depend on...

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Doesn't it depend on which side you are veiwing the subject from? So a clockwise rotation on one side would be a counterclockwise rotation on the other. Is there some rule that you always veiw from a certain side and why?

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[TanMan]

Doesn't it depend on which side you are veiwing the subject from? So a clockwise rotation on one side would be a counterclockwise rotation on the other. Is there some rule that you always veiw from a certain side and why?

Are you talking about correcting an occlusal cant or curve of spee? If you're talking about an occlusal cant, main view is looking straight on with respect to the interpupillary line. If you're talking about the curve of spee, look at both sides. Clockwise/counterclockwise would only make sense when looking the occlusal cant from the facial. Viewing laterally, clockwise/counterclockwise depends on the side you're looking at.

 

[2TH MVR]

In Ortho ... We use the terms Forward Mandibular Auto rotation for flattening the occlusal plane relative to the palatal plane or the cranial base plane vs. Backward rotation which steepens the occlusal plane. These are ant-post measurements ... not related to occlusal cants.

One possibility. Orthos usually views cephs from the pt's right side. Therefore a developing clockwise occlusal plane would be steepening vs a counter clockwise plane that is flattening.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

In Ortho ... We use the terms Forward Mandibular Auto rotation for flattening the occlusal plane relative to the palatal plane or the cranial base plane vs. Backward rotation which steepens the occlusal plane. These are ant-post measurements ... not related to occlusal cants.

One possibility. Orthos usually views cephs from the pt's right side. Therefore a developing clockwise occlusal plane would be steepening vs a counter clockwise plane that is flattening.

Yes this is exactly what I am talking about.

Wouldn't it be difficult to change this aspect with orthodontics alone? The way I see it it would probably require a BSSO/Le For I Style Bimax? Or perhaps even a total TMJ Replacement? (Albeit drastic)

Counterclockwise/clockwise Rotation is is not explained in Atlas of Maxillofacial Surgery or Contemporary OMS. Can only find obscure videos from India and articles from ResearchGate which also don't explain.

 

[2TH MVR]

Yes this is exactly what I am talking about.

Wouldn't it be difficult to change this aspect with orthodontics alone? The way I see it it would probably require a BSSO/Le For I Style Bimax? Or perhaps even a total TMJ Replacement? (Albeit drastic)

Counterclockwise/clockwise Rotation is is not explained in Atlas of Maxillofacial Surgery or Contemporary OMS. Can only find obscure videos from India and articles from ResearchGate which also don't explain.

Not at all. The occlusal plane can be changed quite easily in growing patients and less so in non-growing adults. If a growing patient has a hyper-divergent, open-skeletal, backward rotating mandible or clock-wise rotation ..... these patients tend to be class 2. Employing class 2 elastics (upper cuspids down to lower 1st molars) will further steepen the plane angle making it more difficult to correct the class 2. Class 2 elastics will extrude the lower 1st molars and extrude the upper anterior teeth thereby steepening the occlusal plane (clockwise rotation).

That is why orthodontists evaluate cephalometrics to understand what force directions can be used in various skeletal patterns.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Not at all. The occlusal plane can be changed quite easily in growing patients and less so in non-growing adults. If a growing patient has a hyper-divergent, open-skeletal, backward rotating mandible or clock-wise rotation ..... these patients tend to be class 2. Employing class 2 elastics (upper cuspids down to lower 1st molars) will further steepen the plane angle making it more difficult to correct the class 2. Class 2 elastics will extrude the lower 1st molars and extrude the upper anterior teeth thereby steepening the occlusal plane (clockwise rotation).

That is why orthodontists evaluate cephalometrics to understand what force directions can be used in various skeletal patterns.

What about for 20+ year olds?
I have heard rumors that elastics to correct this may cause a recessed maxilla