when to call it quits?

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Ciardeme

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Okay, so my MCAT scores arrived today. Now let me preface this score with some good stats. GPA 3.8 in a graduate program, 4 years of clinical oncology research experience, 7 years of volunteer work with autistic children and roughly 6 or 7 publications in peer reviewed journals. Okay, you ready?....MCAT score 22. Now, after all of this effort, do i give up? (And no before you say take it again, this was my 3rd attempt at the MCAT.) I JUST CAN'T DO IT!!! I am so burnt out at this very moment that i can't even think about finishing my secondaries. Do i continue wasting the money on the application process?
And one other thing, don't tell me about this "med schools look at the total package" BS, there is a screening process. I have proof! :eek:
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i'm sorry about your scores. that just sucks. maybe you could just wait and see with the schools that you did finish the secondaries for, and have you considered osteopathic school?
 
I know this will cause some waves, but no, i haven't considered Osteopathic schools. I work in an academic medical center now and believe me, the stigma is still there. Besides, i want to do translational research in neurology but getting a residency in neurology with a DO is not that easy. :confused:
 
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you are right - medical schools do have an initial screen - though none would ever admit it. And yes, I have heard of people who have gotten into medical school with low MCATs - the example I am thinking of had a 23 (an under-represented minority). That person is not excelling in medical school right now, and I will try to find out if they even had to repeat the first year again. But I guess my point is - do you know what your weaknesses on the MCAT are? I felt pretty defeated by it too (I took it twice) the first time I took it. I felt like I had studied a lot. But then I tried different methods - I stayed away from prep books until near the test date, because those books aren't really good at teaching the basic concepts - they assume you know them already. Even though this is your 3rd time, if you are serious about medical school (and judging by your record, you certainly are) you can take it again, as long as you show proof of intent to apply. And if you do choose to, you could try something different, or try to get a private tutor (I know that would be outrageously expensive, but it could help), or take a class. There a a number of ways to improve that score - are all 3 of your scores the same? Did you improve for this last one? I really think you can do it - your background sounds so impressive, I know you score isn't representative of who you are. At the same time, you should talk to med schools - there are a few that really sympathize with outstanding applicants with less-than-ideal scores.
 
Ciardeme- I was in kind of the same boat, although I had taken the MCAT only once. I received my April 2001 score and even after a TON of studying, I got a 21. I am proud to say that I went ahead and applied and have received three interviews and one acceptance already at a DO school. I know you said you haven't thought about DO schools, but I believe that you should really reconsider. Nevertheless, IT CAN BE DONE. I did decide to take the dreaded test over and just found out I got a 28, but my acceptance and the other interviews (which I declined because of my acceptance) were decided with my April score!!! You can do it. It sounds like you have a lot of other stuff going for you! :eek: :D
 
A "22" doesn't tell us much in terms of giving you advice on doing better next time. What is the breakdown of your scores?
 
If you really want to do research in neurology, try to go for a PhD and not waste your time learning patient care and a multitude of other things you will never need to know to do research. Some grad schools can be as competitive as as med schools, but if you don't get in you can still take the classes needed, without being technically "in" the program.

take it easy

homonculus
 
I must say that you sound like a perfect candidate for DO school. I know you feel there still exists some prejudice, but why not suck it up so you can be a doc? I think you should explore that avenue. BTW, neuro is not ALL THAT HARD to get as a DO, especially if you're a good student. Never give up hope my friend.
 
Have you considered converting to Seventh Day Adventism?

Just kidding; I am thinking Loma Linda of course.

How about moving to an area where the avg. in-state MCAT is really low? I always wondered what your odds would be if you tried that.
 
if u REALLY want to go to med school, then i would keep on tryin.....but if it makes u feel better, i just left medical school last week. it is just a long arduous process that only brings more stress than peace in life. if u have other interests, then go for it, but if u are set on med school, then keep tryin with that mcat.
 
I know this will cause some waves, but no, i haven't considered Osteopathic schools. I work in an academic medical center now and believe me, the stigma is still there.
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Well...I like to think of myself as the eternal optimist, and I would still say that yes, if you keep trying, you can go to medical school. However, understandably you are fed up with the process. I think after 3 MCATS I would be too. Whatever you are doing (and I'm really not trying to rub salt in the wound or anything) but whatever you are currently doing isn't working for you . I really suggest you do not give up, but that you take a break from the application process. You say you are currently working in an academic medical environment. Great. Continue doing that. It's not going to hurt your chances, and if you really want to do neuro-research maybe you can get (more?) involved in that and continue publishing (are you first author on any of the papers? Sole author?...There are always ways to push your career forward). I would seriously consider re-applying but not this round. Give yourself a year or two in the meantime really pushing the reasearch side of your career. In the long run this will help, not hinder, your research career. It's a lot harder to get papers out when you're not only responsible for research (eg also have teaching or clinical responsibilities).

Just because you don't become an MD today, does not mean you never become one. You can decide to give yourself a brief break without giving up the dream forever.

My other point...and I guess this one is slightly less what you want to hear...but I think you know a 22 MCAT may give you a very slim chance at a low echelon state school, but getting into a top tier neuro-research active med school will be virtually impossible. But you say you do not want to go to DO school as the DO bias still exists. I absolutely agree - having experienced the academic env. the DO bias does still exist. I also agree that the DO route to neuro, which is not impossible, is admittedly hard. However, if your MCAT remains at 22 then you have a pretty blunt choice: try to do something hard (neuro via DO) or try to do something nigh on impossible (get into a top tier research oriented MD program with a 22 MCAT). Sorry to put it that way...but I do think you should consider DO. As I said I have also been exposed to the DO-bias...but I also know several DO researchers who have MD respect in spite of this. Don't let your own bias stand in the way of your dreams...

good luck whatever you decide...only you know what is the right decision for you!

onwis :)
 
I'm not saying this to be mean, but seriously... no one with a 22 MCAT has any room to be picky... much less be putting down D.O.!! I understand the D.O. stigma still exists, but it's an undeserved stigma... and with a 22 MCAT you'd be lucky to get into a medical school with an undeserved stigma. I just can't believe someone with a 22 still has the nerve not want to go to a DO school because of the stigma. It's great that you still have such high expectations even with such pitiful MCAT scores.

Sorry if I sound mean... but my mom is a D.O. and she is a great doctor. She has the respect not only of all the MD and DO doctors, but of the entire community she works in.

I hope you find a career that's right for you. :)
 
Man I know a guy like you, he in now waiting on his 5th attempt scores. What i would say is, if this is your dream don't let anything stand in your way, DO MD you can make it work either way GOOD Luck!
 
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MD OR DO - Who cares???? The important thing is that you are a good physician!
 
Ciardeme, let me first tell you that you can do it, get into med school that is. It just depends how much you want it. Are you just going to give up hope, and choose another profession just because you got a low mcat score? Look how far you have gone with your research, and other activites. Now, let me ask you again are you going to give all what you have done just because of 1 exam which proves nothing about a person's passion and quality of becoming a doctor. Hellz NO!!!
I agree with the above post that you should continue your work and activities. And I know you don't want to hear it, but RETAKE the MCAT in a year or two. Drop the way you are studying for the MCAT and just focus on doing passages and do them in a real timely setting. I think your problem is that you are too nervous about this exam.

In this world, I believe that there are two people in medicine. Those who have their path already set and get good grades and have no problem getting into med school. And there are those who seem to have a constant struggle with school, exam, etc; they are the one who is being tested on their passion and dedication in medicine. Though the path is different, the end point is the SAME. And these people are the ones who will make a difference in patient care.

SO don't give up just because you have a little obstacle to overcome.
 
I know this is going to sound bad, but I will say it anyway because it is right (in my opinion). I want to first say that I don't know you personally and don't have all the details of your situation so I can't give definite advice - But, I think it is time that you call it quits as far at allopathic medical school is concerned.

I would be extremely surprised if you were accepted into an MD school. If I were in your position I would look seriously at DO schools. As another poster said, you have absolutely no right to look down on DO's with a 22 MCAT. Try for DO school next year. IF you don't get in, then I would say that it is time to give up on medicine. Seriously. Life is too short to waste so much time over an objective that may well be beyond your reach for whatever reason. I understand that medicine may be your dream or whatever, but I'm sorry to say that dreams DO NOT always come true. I think it is no smart to chase them indefinitely - especially when you are wasting valuable time and money in the process...

Lots of people will tell you to "never give up hope" or whatever. I think they are just wrong. I know I'll probably get a bunch of "how could you tell him to give up" replies...but I don't care. Sorry for being so negative, but reality is a #$%@$
 
Ok, I'm going to be brutaly honest, I wouldn't apply to medical school this year if I were in your position. A score of 22, as many other SDNers have already said, is just too damn low to apply with. If you think you can somehow improve your score with another sitting, than take it again. But for god sakes, don't waste your money on the 2002 admissions season.
 
I am a little confused. If you really want to do research, why not just get a PhD? PhD programs specifically teach you how to do research and in my limited experience, PhDs seem to be more respected in research circles than MDs. With a PhD you could TEACH med students.

How are your GRE scores? :)
 
There is so much good feedback on this thread - from everyone! I agree that medicine is as much dedication and perseverance than anything, especially in the admissions process. If you haven't submitted and paid for AMCAS yet, I would wait until next year. If you have, choose 1 or 2 schools, and talk to them. Let them get to know you. As much as numbers matter, YOU matter more. I found that out last Monday at an unbelieveable interview.

As far as MD/DO and admission in general are concerned, here is my opinion: Go for your dream. Do not let anyone stop you unless YOU decide it isn't your dream any more. That's okay, too. You may meet a DO within the next year that floors you. You never know. Or, you may feel in your gut/heart/whatever, that MD is right for you, as I do. Try to see what your true feeling is, not what the statistics or someone else's stigma tell you.

I think you should post a breakdown of the scores and your time out of school, etc. That way, people can get a feel for what you're like. That may sway some opinions and elicit different advice.

Whatever happens, hang in there. You will end up where you are meant to be. Believe in that.
 
i'm going to go ahead and jump in here even though i'm a virtual virgin poster next to most of you. first of all ciardeme, sorry. i know the feeling of working your ass off and having it come to a miserable end. as for the question of whether to give up or not, i offer an example of someone my brother worked with as a medical assistant. 4 MCATs, 5 times applying - the guy is now in his residency. why did he do it? dedication? stupidity? unlimited resources? up to you to decide. but he did it and he's through. i echo the sentiments of not giving up your dream, however. i'm of the old school where i believe that the MCAT is only a part of who you are as an applicant. Granted, a decent score is needed in the opening round, but other things will speak louder than a single day's test. Harvard will not be knocking on your door any time soon, but there are plenty of other options. As for DO - again, not to insult anyone on SDN (or step up on the soap box too much), but by saying that you can't go into neurology from osteopathy is only perpetuating the stereotypes and the stigma. i spoke with a 4th year from UNECOM recently who summed it up the best - it's the individual, not the two letters that follow their name that makes the doctor. There is arrogance and incompetance in both fields, but YOU make of it what you want and you will excel once you arrive. The answer to the title of the thread as to when to call it quits - when you stop dreaming. ;)
 
I would reread the post I made before, as well as Wednesday's post. Why are you so set on going to medical school? If research is your passion, why would you put yourself through the torture?? Take the GRE, find a good grad program, and who knows, maybe YOU'LL be pimp-smacking us students around someday :)

take it easy

homonculus
 
Yeah, and if you go to grad school and get your PhD you're still going to be a "doctor."
 
Ciardeme - Do not get discouraged. You can do it. From your post, it sounds like the missing piece for you is your MCAT. All you need is a solid high 20s or above MCAT, and I think you could get in depending on where you apply. Best of luck. You can do it if you really want to.
 
Now, thats perseverance! I don't know why you guys are attacking her, but I envy her dedication and drive. i would have jumped from a Bay bridge or something by now. Because doing something for 4 or so years after graduation WITH all the medical school stuff in the back of your mind--you gotta have some guts and patience to PUSH yourself to go to work and stuff. Thats is something to be respected...can you imagine for several years you have that nagging feeling about the admissions and you have to live with it every day! Come on, give her some credit, and don't worry about the DO thing, its all political/ego type crap. I think you should continue until you get it--you've already wasted enough resources with it, so might as well take it through to the end...
and look into guaranteed admissions programs, I don't think they care about MCATs as much as long as they get to know you are a good student.
 
I also admire her drive... I couldn't take the MCAT 3 times. I'd pass out. But here's the thing... there comes a time when enough is enough. I can't really say if the OP has reached that point... but it seems like many people on this board don't even acknowledge that this point exists! This is a point after which persuing medical school is just insane, impractical, wasteful, and foolish. I would say that if you can't break 22 after 3 times... you really need to ask yourself if you've hit that point (especially if you're only looking at MD schools).
 
I usually don't post much in this form because I want to be a DO, but I think that the original poster should not only apply to DO schools (as others have suggested) but look into DO/PhD programs (as I am). Others have suggested the PhD route since research is a factor, but a DO/PhD program would allow the poster to combine research and medicine. There are some great programs out there (UMDNJSOM and Ohio come immediately to mind). Also, the graduate work and research experience Ciardeme already has would certainly help!
 
Okay, okay after reading your replies and spending a few days in the Green Mountains i have had time to put all of this into perspective. Let me first say that the events of September 11th have really made me realize that not getting into medical school this year would not be the end of my world. My sympathy goes out to all of those friends and family members of the victims.
For those of you that decided to get defensive about my comments about Osteopathic schools being inferior, i have some words of advice. Critical reading will be a skill you must master to make it through med school. Read the posting again. I did NOT say I thought DO's are inferior, i said that the stigma of them being second rate physicians still exists. I do believe (and have worked with) some of the most talented, caring and intelligent DO's in the field of oncology. My point is that i have worked way too hard where i am to possibly be considered second best. That is just my thoughts on the subject.
As for all of the encouraging comments, i thank you. There aren't many people who can understand how difficult and stressful it is to be in this situation. But like i said earlier, this isn't the end! I will, if left with no alternative, take that damn test again. I doesn't seem like much of a choice at this point. I am afraid at this point i don't know how to give up. So, thanks again for the encouragement. ;)
 
Most schools report the average MCAT scores of who they accepted, not who attends the school. So, all those people who end up going to Yale and Hopkins still get their scores averaged in with their local state school that they applied to as a back-up. The schools do this to make themselves seem more competitive. What this means is that a school's reported average is probably atleast 2 points higher than the average of the students actually attending the school. Also, it's an average. It doesn't mean everyone that goes their got that score. You know that half the students at that school infact scored lower than that avereage. What I'm trying to say is don't be intimidated by the numbers. You may not be the most competive applicant, but you're still a good one. It sounds like the rest of your application could rival the majority of applicants. You'll be fine. :)
 
Originally posted by csgirl:
•Yeah, and if you go to grad school and get your PhD you're still going to be a "doctor."•
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:mad: Dammit.. this thread irritated me at first with all the "have you considered DO schools?" and whatnot, but for christ's sake, this post above just made me blow my top. csgirl, why would you dare minimize and put those who recieved a doctorate in quotes? I do hope you have a damn good reason for it.

To the OP - do not listen to these individuals telling you to opt for DO or a "PhD". Do what you dream for. If you have a good enough background and the drive to get there, you can go to med school regardless of what your standardized scores say. You have to try before you can succeed.

I don't know what's happened to this board lately, but recently I think people would find better advice on the Princeton Review boards.

Andrew
 
I agree 110% with Andrew on this one. What's up with the quality of posts these days on this board? Seems like they're dripping with condescension and overflowing with arrogance. :(
 
Oh come on... I was kidding! :rolleyes: I very much appreciate PhDs. I've worked with many of them... I know they work as hard, and sometimes even harder, than MD and DO's to get the Dr. in the front of their names. I put doctor in "" so that people would get it what I was saying... NOT to minimize the PhD. Some of you guys are so uptight... geez. :(

People are allowed to get irritated, people are allowed to be a little less sweet-talking then you'd have them. You guys should try to learn to accept a variety of personalities in addition to this ultra-nice, ultra-PC personality you seem to expect everyone to have. Yeah, the OP pissed me off... but at least she had the guts to state her opinion despite what people would say to her... I admire that. I was returning the favor.
 
OK, after wading through all of the previous posts (few by the OP in response to ?s posed), I'm still left with a big hole in the story:
3.8 gpa, years of research experience, etc. make me think that you're fairly intelligent. That said, I guess I don't understand how you could repeatedly score <22 on the MCAT. I think oldernotwiser hit it on the head when he suggested that you evaluate your MCAT preparation strategies. After 3 rounds, you should be familiar with the test and its format. That essentially leaves knowledge, application, or nerves. If you just don't know the stuff, I don't know what to tell ya, because I have to assume that you prepare for the test. If you have trouble applying your knowledge, then I would think that working through passages would eventually pay off (especially if you get assistance from others who have mastered the MCAT). Finally, if you just get nervous and buckle and blank, then perhaps you could see a psychologist (I am in NO WAY suggesting that you're loony or anything like that) to find out why and help you overcome that. Afterall, if you can't handle pressure, you'll have one hell of a time with med school.
As for the MD/DO/PhD debate, I guess you need to decide if you'd rather be a pt. focused doctor (ie. go DO), a research focused doctor (ie. go PhD), or an MD (ie. figure out why the MCAT owns you and fix it).
That's about the gist of it in my eyes. I realize there are probably more factors involved, but I think the above is at the heart of the issue. Good luck in making your decision.
Oh, and another thing--very few, if any, of us are experts in this subject. Have you talked to those that are???
 
Originally posted by csgirl:
•Oh come on... I was kidding! :rolleyes: I very much appreciate PhDs. I've worked with many of them... I know they work as hard, and sometimes even harder, than MD and DO's to get the Dr. in the front of their names. I put doctor in "" so that people would get it what I was saying... NOT to minimize the PhD. Some of you guys are so uptight... geez. :(

People are allowed to get irritated, people are allowed to be a little less sweet-talking then you'd have them. You guys should try to learn to accept a variety of personalities in addition to this ultra-nice, ultra-PC personality you seem to expect everyone to have. Yeah, the OP pissed me off... but at least she had the guts to state her opinion despite what people would say to her... I admire that. I was returning the favor.•
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Well, I guess I better throw in the towel on all my med school applications. I don't have the tolerance for people that I should. :rolleyes:

Of course I'm going to be uptight when I see quotes around something I busted my ass for five years to get. And yes, we're allowed to get fired up, but my goodness, I'm certainly not going to stand by as people tell the OP s/he shouldn't continue on with his or her goal. People on this board should fully know that an MCAT alone will not keep someone from getting into med school. Perhaps the OP is not a good standardized test taker, s/he may even have a mild case of dyslexia and not know it - but for people to say they should call it quits is ridiculous. I've a stack of 50 med school rejection letters at home that I keep as a testament to remind me never to give up and I'm certainly not going to. And neither should anyone who has the drive to become a physician - I don't care what your MCAT score is.

Freely expressing his irritating and non-PC opinion,

Andrew
 
This message is in response to those who posted positive comments: Thanks! I am not in the same situation as the original poster, but I found many of the comments inspiring and helpful. J.L, your comments were particularly inspiring. I am a "non-traditional" applicant(whatever that means, and, by the way, who isn't?), and it's nice to hear people say I can do it, rather than I can't.

Thanks!
 
I agree with OregonLabRat. And for those who think research and direct patient care are mutually exclusive, think again. There is something out there called translational research. It is practiced in the academic setting. Take where i work for example. MDs have the opportunity to work in a lab to investigate potential cures for cancer. When one looks promising in animal studies and at the (human) cellular level (in vivo) we try it out with patients that have already failed conventional treatment....thus clinical trials!
As far as why i am not cracking the MCAT, it is no suprise. I have never done well on standardized tests. This dates back to high school. My SATs were pitiful as well as my GREs. I did take Kaplan this last round, but could only attend the last offered classes prior to the exam. That only left me with 43 days of studying night and day. And that is exactly what i did.
The other issue of being a "doctor". Believe me, the last thing i am in it for is to be called a doctor or for the $. I am and never have been into titles. And as for the $ issue, I am fortunate in life that $ has never been an issue. I need to get into medicine for personal reasons. I have an extremely sick brother. And I am hoping i can make a positive impact in researching his disease to someday help someone else like him. Hope i don't get slammed for that comment!
And last but not least, i want everyone out there to think about this idea. For some, investing in a career is like investing in a successful marriage. You have to invest alot of time and effort to reach your common goals. You have to maintain that investment. And most of all, you must NEVER initially settle for something you are not satisfied with. If you do, you will never be happy with your decision. Regret is a bitch to live with. So all of you out there don't comprimise your dreams over what others may tell you. Make decisions that you can live with for the rest of your life. :p
 
I feel your pain.. I am in a similar boat. This whole thing with the MCAT SUCKS !.. I mean look at your background.. outstanding.. and then you have some nerd that goofs off all 4 years of undergrad and does awesome on the MCAT and wow he is in !... US is the only country that I know of that puts you in this position. It seems that the Med Schools have no respect for your background or where you are coming from.. all they care about is money and numbers, numbers,.. why the hell ask for all what you have done, recs, research.. blah blah blah.. when all they care about is what you got on your verbal!.. how does that make you a good future doctor ?.....

Ok I feel better now.. let me ask you, if you are so bent (like me) to be an MD.. have you considered the offshore schools.. I am sure you can get in there and I have heard that some of their grads have been admitted in great programs .... hope this helps.. keep us posted...

korndawg
 
kutastha: I'm very sorry If I offended you. I really do have a lot of respect for PhDs. I don't know what more I can say. If you'd like me to delete the post I will.

As far as telling people never to give up... I think that's unreasonable. Applying to medical school costs a LOT of time and money. I dont' know if you know this, but you actually have to get special permission from AAMC to take the MCAT a forth time. However you feel about it, the MCAT still matters a lot in medical school admissions. You can't deny that. I do believe there comes a point when it's wise to consider other options. If a person is really 100% bent on going to medical school he/she wouldn't even be asking this board "when to call it quits." THe OP wanted to know "when to call it quits" and, in my opinion, when you have three MCAT scores of less than 25, that would be the time.
 
Originally posted by kornphan:
• US is the only country that I know of that puts you in this position.•
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Whoa there. I think that in most other countries, medical school admissions is pretty much based solely on how you do on one exam, taken when you get out of high school. I have a cousin in Germany who got into med school without having to deal with all this extraneous stuff like recs, volunteering, etc. I'm not saying it's a better method, but there's a lot less mystery about the process.
 
kornphan, just to let you know that many countries, especially asian and south american countries base their applicants solely on statistics. in fact, the us is only one of a few countries that actually takes into consideration your background, work experience and other factors. be happy that you live in the us, not in many other countries where a comparable score of 22 in the mcat would get your nowhere.

the mcat obviously isn't the crystal ball as to how someone will do as a doctor, but it's a way to gauge how well they can grasp "medical school" topics. the verbal i assume schools use to find out more well-rounded people. i don't think anyone should discourage applicants with low scores, but to go about blindly applying and spending money is also a burden. realistically, chances are low to get accepted with a 22 or lower...it has probably happened, but i guess i feel that they should go in with some idea of the struggles that might come with applying.
 
No worries csgirl. I'm sorry, I just snapped. At my work there's always been this certain dichotomy between MDs and PhDs, with the latter getting the short shrift. I had one MD even say, 'You know, a lot of PhDs are just people who couldn't get into med school.' So, no don't delete your post.

Andrew
 
I actually have a funny story about that... I worked with a group of PhD and PhD/MD students. I asked the group of graduate students "So... is our supervisor a PhD, PhD/MD... or is he just an MD?" They started howling... I didn't get it at the time because I didn't know much about the PhD vs MD dichotomy. They said "He's ~just~ and M.D." I learned later that one of the big things that annoyed the PhD students was that people would always say things to them like "Oh... so you're going to be just a PhD" and "so-and-so is just a PhD" and "Why don't you want to be a real doctor instead of just a PhD?"

hobartpaver is very right about many other countries using standardized tests. In India it's way worse than it is here. In India if you don't get a certain score on their test you absolutely CAN NOT go to medical school. Over there, the test is pretty much the ONLY thing that determines who goes to medical school. At least here if you have a 26 you still have a chance.
 
Yeah- from my experience, I've gotten the feeling that many medical students/MSTPers just cannot fathom that someone may not WANT to become an MD/DO, and that anyone doing a PhD is intellectually inferior. Mostly it's these same kids who think that medicine is the pinnacle of academia, but barely got their heads around physics 101. Ah well, it takes all kinds to make the world go around, i guess. --Trek
 
Originally posted by kornphan:
•and then you have some nerd that goofs off all 4 years of undergrad and does awesome on the MCAT and wow he is in!korndawg•
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I don't think that goofing off is going to make someone do excellent on the MCAT...To do well on the MCAT takes natural talent, smarts, and skills. Just b/c someone has a 39 MCAT doesn't mean they will get in..take my friend last year, she had a 37-39...she "goofed off" in the sense that she was a wild child but managed to pull a 3.2 to 3.3 gpa with SUPER EC's....she did NOT get in...
 
Originally posted by Scooby Doo:
•
she had a 37-39...she "goofed off" in the sense that she was a wild child but managed to pull a 3.2 to 3.3 gpa with SUPER EC's....she did NOT get in...•
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Where the heck did she apply?!
 
She applied all over...mostly middle and lower tier schools...a couple top tier maybe..

about 24 in all i think...
 
A 3.2 can do that to a pre-med. It's really hard to have great ECs and a high GPA.
 
Originally posted by Ciardeme:
•Besides, i want to do translational research in neurology but getting a residency in neurology with a DO is not that easy. :confused:•
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I'm not sure why you got that impresssion. My guess is that this is probably due to a bunch of insecure Neurologists at the location where you work. Neurology is not that difficult to match into -- it is relatively easy !!! I'm not talking about Mass. General or another top five program, rather just Neuro residencies in general. Trust me, it doesn't matter where you went to Medschool (MD, DO, Ross, or anywhere else). You will match in Neuro as long as you do decent wherever you go and pass the USMLE. If you want to do Neurology in New Jersey (UMDNJ ?), just ask the program director for his match list and who she/he interviewed last season. That just about says it all. I guarantee that a majority of the people who matched into any Neuro program in New Jersey were not from a top 25 medical school, not AOA, and scored less than the mean on the USMLE.
 
Ciardeme,
I do not have concrete example in applying med school, but have a good one to dental school. My friend was reject from dental school for "3" (!!!) years and all of the responses from school are "they do not accept foreign under degree and his DAT score is not competitive (17, 20, 19)." Then, at fourth time, his DAT is 20 and got admissions from USC, Duke, and UCLA.
Just don't give up as long as you still remember your dream. Good Luck!
 
I'm pretty jazzed about all the esprit de corps amongst med apps rooting on Ciardeme in her pursuit. It'd be great if this carries over into med school and the practicing phase.

I agree completely that stigmatizing DOs does nothing for the practice of medicine, and I would add that you would be an ideal candidate for helping to reverse the stigma. I work in a lab w/a MD surgical pediatric urologist, and he's recommended to many to think about DO. The trend as far as stigma is less extensive in certain places, he's convinced.
 
have you ever considered applying to a foreign med school? you have EXCELLENT credentials, and if you're determined to get into a US med school, then take the MCAT again. by the way, how did you do on the practice MCATs? because if you did well on the practice tests, then it's not an issue of not knowing the materials, but more because of being too nervous while taking the real one. however, if you didn't do well on the practice MCATs either, i suggest that you focus on the subjects that you're weak in. from your background, i can tell that you have the determination and brains to excel in med school.
 
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