When to start shadowing.. Also volunteering question

[FiremedicMike]

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I have about 3 solid years of college left before I can take my MCAT and start applying. I'm not a high school student with 8 hours a week to burn following around a doctor, I'm already in healthcare, I know what I want. When should I start shadowing and how much is necessary of a non-trad with an extensive healthcare background?

Also, on a somewhat related note, does being an unpaid auxiliary police officer count as appropriate volunteering. While not healthcare, it is altruistic in nature, but I just wanted to make sure it would count.

You guys are always very helpful, thanks very much in advance.

 

[QofQuimica]

I have about 3 solid years of college left before I can take my MCAT and start applying. I'm not a high school student with 8 hours a week to burn following around a doctor, I'm already in healthcare, I know what I want. When should I start shadowing and how much is necessary of a non-trad with an extensive healthcare background?

Also, on a somewhat related note, does being an unpaid auxiliary police officer count as appropriate volunteering. While not healthcare, it is altruistic in nature, but I just wanted to make sure it would count.

You guys are always very helpful, thanks very much in advance.

You have asked a few times now about how much volunteering and shadowing you need to do. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to that, and I would argue that you're making the same mistake that many trads make by fixating upon the length of time or the "right" kind of volunteering. You'd do much better to think in terms of the spirit of why doing these activities is helpful for increasing your competitiveness for med school. Adcoms do not look for these activities in order to measure your participation by the hour, but rather to get a sense that A) you have some semblance of what you're getting yourself into with regard to the practice of medicine, and B) you have some streak of altruism/willingness to serve.

Basically, you need enough clinical time (shadowing, volunteering, etc.) to see what a physician does on a day-to-day basis. If you've spent enough time with physicians that you can write a PS about it, be interviewed about it, and ideally, get a physician who knows you well enough to write you a good LOR, then you have enough. As for the volunteering, I'd give you the same answer. It's not the activity itself that is most important; it's having the consistent track record of service that "counts." And again, ask your police supervisor to write you a LOR if you think s/he would write you a strong one.

 

[FiremedicMike]

You have asked a few times now about how much volunteering and shadowing you need to do. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to that, and I would argue that you're making the same mistake that many trads make by fixating upon the length of time or the "right" kind of volunteering. You'd do much better to think in terms of the spirit of why doing these activities is helpful for increasing your competitiveness for med school. Adcoms do not look for these activities in order to measure your participation by the hour, but rather to get a sense that A) you have some semblance of what you're getting yourself into with regard to the practice of medicine, and B) you have some streak of altruism/willingness to serve.

Basically, you need enough clinical time (shadowing, volunteering, etc.) to see what a physician does on a day-to-day basis. If you've spent enough time with physicians that you can write a PS about it, be interviewed about it, and ideally, get a physician who knows you well enough to write you a good LOR, then you have enough. As for the volunteering, I'd give you the same answer. It's not the activity itself that is most important; it's having the consistent track record of service that "counts." And again, ask your police supervisor to write you a LOR if you think s/he would write you a strong one.

Thanks.. I didn't mean to be redundant with my questions. I'm just the kind of guy who plans everything out meticulously and lines things up for success as much as possible.

I appreciate it.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks.. I didn't mean to be redundant with my questions. I'm just the kind of guy who plans everything out meticulously and lines things up for success as much as possible.

I wasn't criticizing you for being redundant, merely pointing out that the reason you're not getting the answers you want is because you're asking the wrong questions. 😉

Looking at your back-posts, the best advice I can give you is to try to ace your BS coursework so that you come out with a strong GPA. With your work history, no one is going to question whether you are service-oriented. Getting some face-time with physicians is something you will need to do, however, since EMS is pre-hospital. The good thing in your case though is that you probably know some physicians who would be willing to have you arrange to spend some time with them.

Since staying in Columbus is important to you, the other thing you might want to strongly consider doing is talking to the OSU admissions office. See if you can get an appointment with their dean or director of admissions to go over the strengths and weaknesses of your app now, while you have plenty of time to fill in any gaps that they might point out.

On a complete tangent, but I'm curious: is it common for policemen to be volunteers? I've heard of volunteer firemen and volunteer EMS, but not volunteer policemen!

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I have about 3 solid years of college left before I can take my MCAT and start applying. I'm not a high school student with 8 hours a week to burn following around a doctor, I'm already in healthcare, I know what I want. When should I start shadowing and how much is necessary of a non-trad with an extensive healthcare background?

Also, on a somewhat related note, does being an unpaid auxiliary police officer count as appropriate volunteering. While not healthcare, it is altruistic in nature, but I just wanted to make sure it would count.

You guys are always very helpful, thanks very much in advance.

I'm glad there's another brother in blue aboard. I think you've got a good extracurricular / volunteer thing going with the reserve police gig. Be safe.

Oh and if it helps; I also have problems with the subjective area of premed-dom. Q can testify to that, but she can be helpful. 😉

Edit: I used to work part-time as a medic and my volunteer experience will probably be all from eight years or so of VFD'ing.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I wasn't criticizing you for being redundant, merely pointing out that the reason you're not getting the answers you want is because you're asking the wrong questions. 😉

Looking at your back-posts, the best advice I can give you is to try to ace your BS coursework so that you come out with a strong GPA. With your work history, no one is going to question whether you are service-oriented. Getting some face-time with physicians is something you will need to do, however, since EMS is pre-hospital. The good thing in your case though is that you probably know some physicians who would be willing to have you arrange to spend some time with them.

Since staying in Columbus is important to you, the other thing you might want to strongly consider doing is talking to the OSU admissions office. See if you can get an appointment with their dean or director of admissions to go over the strengths and weaknesses of your app now, while you have plenty of time to fill in any gaps that they might point out.

On a complete tangent, but I'm curious: is it common for policemen to be volunteers? I've heard of volunteer firemen and volunteer EMS, but not volunteer policemen!

Yes, Q, it is very common. They supplement a lot of agencies out of the goodness of their heart and an interest in law enforcement. Their qualifications, training, and abilities are dictated by statute and/or department policy.

In Arkansas, an auxillary, aka reserve police officer, has the full authority of a regular, certified police officer while on-duty. However, they have no authority while off-duty unlike the full-time people. They attend a condensed training and by law they cannot receive any pay in return for their service. Some of their training and certifications are limited so for example, in AR, they may not utilize RADAR to initiate traffic stops. They must also be supervised by a full-time officer which is rather dictated by agency policy. For some agencies, as long as the aux. has contact with a full-time officer they're supervised, yet at another agencies they must be with a full-time officer.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I wasn't criticizing you for being redundant, merely pointing out that the reason you're not getting the answers you want is because you're asking the wrong questions. 😉

Looking at your back-posts, the best advice I can give you is to try to ace your BS coursework so that you come out with a strong GPA. With your work history, no one is going to question whether you are service-oriented. Getting some face-time with physicians is something you will need to do, however, since EMS is pre-hospital. The good thing in your case though is that you probably know some physicians who would be willing to have you arrange to spend some time with them.

Since staying in Columbus is important to you, the other thing you might want to strongly consider doing is talking to the OSU admissions office. See if you can get an appointment with their dean or director of admissions to go over the strengths and weaknesses of your app now, while you have plenty of time to fill in any gaps that they might point out.

On a complete tangent, but I'm curious: is it common for policemen to be volunteers? I've heard of volunteer firemen and volunteer EMS, but not volunteer policemen!

That is a fantastic idea about seeing the admissions board at Ohio-State, if they will see me. Is it common for a pre-med to go and speak directly to admissions boards? I will definitely work on that this week.

I've already told my EMS medical director what my plans are. I started a dialogue with him back when I was considering PA school, and he seemed willing to help then, I haven't asked him for anything other than advice now. The nice thing is, on top of being our medical director, he runs the ED at one of the major local hospitals, he should prove to be a great ally.

As for the police officer thing, most police departments have an auxiliary force of unpaid people. Like AR said it varies from state to state, but in Ohio we're full police officers will the same 600hours of training as the full-time guys and we have off duty carry/arrest powers..

Thanks very much, you are always extremely helpful!

I'm glad there's another brother in blue aboard. I think you've got a good extracurricular / volunteer thing going with the reserve police gig. Be safe.

Oh and if it helps; I also have problems with the subjective area of premed-dom. Q can testify to that, but she can be helpful. 😉

Edit: I used to work part-time as a medic and my volunteer experience will probably be all from eight years or so of VFD'ing.

Sounds like we're in the same boat, you be safe out there too and good luck in admissions. Would be awesome if we ended up meeting some day and we could laugh about the idiots we've put in jail... Of course this would be over a round of golf while we're getting shmoozed by some drug rep

 

[QofQuimica]

That is a fantastic idea about seeing the admissions board at Ohio-State, if they will see me. Is it common for a pre-med to go and speak directly to admissions boards? I will definitely work on that this week.

I know nothing about the policies of OSU or other OH state schools concerning pre-app counseling. But in FL, where I'm from, I visited three of my state schools to get pre-app counseling the year before I applied. It was tremendously helpful in terms strengthening and honing my app, and I was accepted to all three schools plus several others OOS.

Regardless, what do you have to lose by asking them for an appointment? Worst case scenario, they blow you off and you're in exactly the same position you're in right now, right? 🙂

I've already told my EMS medical director what my plans are. I started a dialogue with him back when I was considering PA school, and he seemed willing to help then, I haven't asked him for anything other than advice now. The nice thing is, on top of being our medical director, he runs the ED at one of the major local hospitals, he should prove to be a great ally.

He'd be a great person to approach for setting up shadowing. Also, since he knows you, definitely consider asking him to write you a LOR if you think he'd write a good one.

As for the police officer thing, most police departments have an auxiliary force of unpaid people. Like AR said it varies from state to state, but in Ohio we're full police officers will the same 600hours of training as the full-time guys and we have off duty carry/arrest powers..

Hmm. I never knew that. And there people say that you can't learn anything interesting on SDN. 😛

Oh and if it helps; I also have problems with the subjective area of premed-dom. Q can testify to that, but she can be helpful.

Thanks, I think.

All kidding aside, everyone struggles with the subjectivity of the app process, adcoms as well as applicants. But that's the price we all have to pay for valuing other attributes besides stats in premeds applying to U.S. med schools. Even with all of this system's subjectivity and faults, I rather doubt that most nontrads would like to see us move toward a system of selecting applicants solely on the 100% objective basis of their GPAs and MCAT scores. 😉

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Basically, you need enough clinical time (shadowing, volunteering, etc.) to see what a physician does on a day-to-day basis. If you've spent enough time with physicians that you can write a PS about it, be interviewed about it...then you have enough.

I don't see any reason with the above to do anymore shadowing then. I think my past clinical experiences coupled with tales from my mom's work as a healthcare administrator suffice, and believe me from her I don't hear anything but negative, lol.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't see any reason with the above to do anymore shadowing then. I think my past clinical experiences coupled with tales from my mom's work as a healthcare administrator suffice, and believe me from her I don't hear anything but negative, lol.

AR, if you think your previous experience fits the bill, and you don't think it's worth doing any more, then don't do any more. Pardon the expression with this audience, but no one is holding a gun to your head. And if UAMS's adcom doesn't think you've gotten enough clinical experience, well, they'll let you know.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

AR, if you think your previous experience fits the bill, and you don't think it's worth doing any more, then don't do any more. Pardon the expression with this audience, but no one is holding a gun to your head. And if UAMS's adcom doesn't think you've gotten enough clinical experience, well, they'll let you know.

I've done a lot of jobs where I've had to follow people around that I didn't know so that they could train me. It sucks. You've probably experienced that too as a medical student. Quite frankly, I hate being subjected to it for no reason. I didn't mind it at one time, but I don't feel any further clinical experiences are going to make me say "nope, I sure ain't goin' to med school now." I feel like I've got a pretty good idea what I'd be getting into too. Granted, I don't know what a urologist does all day, but honestly I don't want to. I really don't think I'm going to get anything out of it other than the awkwardness of being the shadow in the room.