When to stop applying?

[bookwormpsych]

Hi all,

I have applied to 7 programs this cycle. I know people typically recommend 10-12 to increase their chances or whatever, but I have hit a wall. The last one I did was a stretch in terms of framing my research interests in a way that matches a faculty members.

The majority of programs I have applied to are PsyD (i.e., Eastern Kentucky U, Georgia Southern U, James Madison U, Indiana U of PA, Indiana State). However, I have applied to some PhD programs as well (Idaho State, U of North Dakota). There is one-two more I want to apply to, however, one is super expensive (almost worse than predatory PsyDs), and the other is a faaaaaaaaaaar stretch in terms of my probability to get accepted (Washington U St Louis) although my research interests fit well with a lab there, they're a "clinical sciences" program, so heavily weighed on research output which I have little of compared to others.

I'm wondering, at what point do you stop applying for the sake of variety/increased chances? I'm happy with the programs I have applied to and would be happy being accepted to any of them. At this point, it's turning into, "do I have a chance (is their a faculty with interests related to mine in any way)?" rather than a WANT to apply. My options are limited as I have little research experience compared to others. There is a fat chance I won't get accepted this year at all, and that is okay, so I don't want to waste MORE money on apps knowing that.

It feels like the returns on applications is diminishing, if that makes sense. Would you SDNers recommend stopping for this cycle?

Worst thing that'll happen - I don't get in, get a year older, and spend a year working on more research, right?

As an aside - it's 11/10 with most apps due 12/1, I'm cutting it close. The last two weeks have been "searching for more programs."

Thanks for listening to me rant and for any feedback.

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[borne_before]

I don't know - I have a PhD in school psychology. But if you go to Pocatello (where ISU is), make sure to go get a space burger at the Tastee Treat. It's a slice of bygone Americana. It'll transport you back to 50s.

 

[bcliff]

How many cycles have you applied? I told myself that I would apply two cycles back-to-back and then, if not admitted, pursue a different field (most likely public health). I never considered attending an unfunded program and didn't apply to any.

Ask yourself: What do you want your career to look like, and what is the most efficient/least expensive way that you can arrive somewhere as close as possible to that career that you envision for yourself?

 

[summerbabe]

The last one I did was a stretch in terms of framing my research interests in a way that matches a faculty members.

If you're finding that prospective programs/PIs are becoming a stretch in terms of fit, I would imagine that these additional programs might feel the same way about you as well.

IIRC, I applied to 5 funded programs during the 2nd year of my MS program. I thought I was a really good fit for 3-4 programs and a pretty good for 1-2 and ended up with interviews from the Top 3.

There is one-two more I want to apply to, however, one is super expensive (almost worse than predatory PsyDs), and the other is a faaaaaaaaaaar stretch in terms of my probability to get accepted (Washington U St Louis) although my research interests fit well with a lab there, they're a "clinical sciences" program, so heavily weighed on research output which I have little of compared to others.

If I were in your shoes, I probably skip the super expensive one. If the additional finances and time commitment for WashU is OK, you can always give it a shot. Who knows, maybe it's an off year and they have less applicants for this lab and you can make the interview list. Even if you aren't admitted, attending a variety of interviews can be really helpful in gaining new perspectives, getting practice, and if you need to re-apply in a future cycle, give you an idea of how else to shore up your application.

 

[bookwormpsych]

How many cycles have you applied? I told myself that I would apply two cycles back-to-back and then, if not admitted, pursue a different field (most likely public health). I never considered attending an unfunded program and didn't apply to any.

Ask yourself: What do you want your career to look like, and what is the most efficient/least expensive way that you can arrive somewhere as close as possible to that career that you envision for yourself?

This is my first year applying. And the PhD programs I mentioned are fully funded or mostly funded. The others, PsyDs are the "cheaper" programs, and the ones that (after researching and looking at stats) are not predatory diploma mills. 2 of them are even fully funded with GA/TA/RA positions.
With my stats, fully funded PhDs are out of my reach. I'm giving it a swing at a couple of them.

I'm licensed at the MA level in my state, so if after 2 cycles, similar to what you said, I'm over it. I mean, I don't have to change fields, but I'll have to settle even though I don't want to at all. Unless between now and next cycle I can bolster my CV and research stuff.

 

[bookwormpsych]

If you're finding that prospective programs/PIs are becoming a stretch in terms of fit, I would imagine that these additional programs might feel the same way about you as well.

IIRC, I applied to 5 funded programs during the 2nd year of my MS program. I thought I was a really good fit for 3-4 programs and a pretty good for 1-2 and ended up with interviews from the Top 3.


If I were in your shoes, I probably skip the super expensive one. If the additional finances and time commitment for WashU is OK, you can always give it a shot. Who knows, maybe it's an off year and they have less applicants for this lab and you can make the interview list. Even if you aren't admitted, attending a variety of interviews can be really helpful in gaining new perspectives, getting practice, and if you need to re-apply in a future cycle, give you an idea of how else to shore up your application.

Thank you for your feedback. That was kind of my thinking. Writing my last SOP for the far-stretching match, I was thinking, "are they even going to believe me?" lol. Right now I'm feeling I am a really good fit for 3 of them, with 2 being a decent fit - not my top but I'd take it, and the last one being a stretch/ehhhh fit. I think you're right, what is the worst that'll happen applying to WashU? I'm out about $50 and some time, but also have a chance at an experience.

 

[bcliff]

This is my first year applying. And the PhD programs I mentioned are fully funded or mostly funded. The others, PsyDs are the "cheaper" programs, and the ones that (after researching and looking at stats) are not predatory diploma mills. 2 of them are even fully funded with GA/TA/RA positions.
With my stats, fully funded PhDs are out of my reach. I'm giving it a swing at a couple of them.

I'm licensed at the MA level in my state, so if after 2 cycles, similar to what you said, I'm over it. I mean, I don't have to change fields, but I'll have to settle even though I don't want to at all. Unless between now and next cycle I can bolster my CV and research stuff.

Well, what do you want to do with a doctoral level clinical license that you can't do with your MA/MS?

Are you eligible for independent licensure or do you require indefinite supervision? If you require supervision for the remainder of your career, then could you reach your ideal level of clinical independence with an MSW/LCSW? That might be a cheaper, quicker, and more accessible route to becoming licensed for independent practice.

Are you interested in pursuing a career that involves research and/or academia? If not, then the PhD/PsyD might overkill. If true, then what experiences can you obtain now that are consistent with those interests and that might also make you more competitive for doctoral programs.

 

[bookwormpsych]

Well, what do you want to do with a doctoral level clinical license that you can't do with your MA/MS?

Are you eligible for independent licensure or do you require indefinite supervision? If you require supervision for the remainder of your career, then could you reach your ideal level of clinical independence with an MSW/LCSW? That might be a cheaper, quicker, and more accessible route to becoming licensed for independent practice.

Are you interested in pursuing a career that involves research and/or academia? If not, then the PhD/PsyD might overkill. If true, then what experiences can you obtain now that are consistent with those interests and that might also make you more competitive for doctoral programs.

I can become independently licensed after 3000 hours of supervision, if I want. That isn't the issue. I just don't feel that an MA/MS program sufficiently teaches the breadth and depth of knowledge necessary for me to competently work in the mental health field. I've always wanted a PhD/PsyD, the only reason I got an MA was because I didn't apply myself the way I should've in undergrad and my GPA was very low. I got a 3.9 in the MA program to compensate for my low GPA in undergrad. Also, I do not want to pursue a solely research/academia job but am interested in doing research. I'm not against doing it in graduate school or thereafter, just not as my entire career. Many many people who pursue doctoral training go into clinical fields.

I also want options about my living arrangements/areas. I don't know if you have ever been to Texas, but it sucks and I hate it here. Not many states license at the MA level, but all 50 states license at the doctoral level (with variation in requirements, but that can be handled). Also, my career goals do not allow me to work with an MA. The populations that I desire to work with require me to have a doctoral degree.

Just as most people have their reasons for pursuing doctoral training, I do too. I'm aware of the other choices or alternatives available. I got licensed as an alternative, and to be able to hold jobs down while applying to doctoral programs. If I don't get accepted this cycle or next, that is okay and I will be okay to work with what I have. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[bcliff]

I can become independently licensed after 3000 hours of supervision, if I want. That isn't the issue. I just don't feel that an MA/MS program sufficiently teaches the breadth and depth of knowledge necessary for me to competently work in the mental health field. I've always wanted a PhD/PsyD, the only reason I got an MA was because I didn't apply myself the way I should've in undergrad and my GPA was very low. I got a 3.9 in the MA program to compensate for my low GPA in undergrad. Also, I do not want to pursue a solely research/academia job but am interested in doing research. I'm not against doing it in graduate school or thereafter, just not as my entire career. Many many people who pursue doctoral training go into clinical fields.

I also want options about my living arrangements/areas. I don't know if you have ever been to Texas, but it sucks and I hate it here. Not many states license at the MA level, but all 50 states license at the doctoral level (with variation in requirements, but that can be handled). Also, my career goals do not allow me to work with an MA. The populations that I desire to work with require me to have a doctoral degree.

Just as most people have their reasons for pursuing doctoral training, I do too. I'm aware of the other choices or alternatives available. I got licensed as an alternative, and to be able to hold jobs down while applying to doctoral programs. If I don't get accepted this cycle or next, that is okay and I will be okay to work with what I have. I appreciate your feedback.

Are you asking "when to stop applying [to PhD/PsyD programs in a given application cycle?]" or "when to stop applying [to PhD/PsyD programs... and start working on something else?]"

If you're asking the former, then only apply to programs that you are confident (barring anything that reveals itself during the interview) you would attend without hesitation.

 

[representwitpixels]

I feel this @TXpsychology. I'm applying to PhD's again 9 years (!) after my last application attempt. Been working with a Master's (research, private sector, clinical roles) and if I don't match with a program this year I won't try again. I'm applying to 10 programs and faced a similar dilemma of when to cap it off. Folks gave me advice to apply to at least 12 - yea no way there's 12 programs that are a good fit. My aspirations are different than yours though in that I'm interested almost entirely in academia/research/teaching. Now I just need to hit the submit button on these applications. I can press submit. I can press submit.

 

[bookwormpsych]

Are you asking "when to stop applying [to PhD/PsyD programs in a given application cycle?]" or "when to stop applying [to PhD/PsyD programs... and start working on something else?]"

If you're asking the former, then only apply to programs that you are confident (barring anything that reveals itself during the interview) you would attend without hesitation.

Ohhh, I can see the confusion there. I meant within a given application cycle.

 

[bookwormpsych]

I feel this @TXpsychology. I'm applying to PhD's again 9 years (!) after my last application attempt. Been working with a Master's (research, private sector, clinical roles) and if I don't match with a program this year I won't try again. I'm applying to 10 programs and faced a similar dilemma of when to cap it off. Folks gave me advice to apply to at least 12 - yea no way there's 12 programs that are a good fit. My aspirations are different than yours though in that I'm interested almost entirely in academia/research/teaching. Now I just need to hit the submit button on these applications. I can press submit. I can press submit.

I had about 11 on my list and a few of them I definitely fit with as said above. And a few more on my list that I have NOT applied to, I fit well with; however, they are TOOOOO expensive (e.g., Florida Institute of Technology - has a faculty I'd love to work with... refuse to pay that much... or to live in Florida ). So, my list shrunk due to price after researching more. I'm okay with not getting into fully funded programs, but I am not willing to pay $100K+ for school. I definitely agree that it is hard to find that many programs. I have done 7, and that's likely all I will do.

Luckily, this year, we get to save some money for programs not requiring GREs or in-person interviews. You'd think it would be the time to apply everywhere lol, but I can't force myself, ya know?

Hey! You got this!!! Hit that submit button and (try) to forget about it until February/March-ish!

 

[representwitpixels]

Steering away from the 6 figure debt sounds like wise thinking @TXpsychology. That was a non-starter for me as well. I can feel comfortable taking out a few thousand a year to supplement a stipend or something like that. I ended up with 9 programs - I cut one out that just didn't feel like that strong of a fit. I appreciate your encouragement! All my recs are submitted and I'm about there! How are your coming along?

 

[bookwormpsych]

Steering away from the 6 figure debt sounds like wise thinking @TXpsychology. That was a non-starter for me as well. I can feel comfortable taking out a few thousand a year to supplement a stipend or something like that. I ended up with 9 programs - I cut one out that just didn't feel like that strong of a fit. I appreciate your encouragement! All my recs are submitted and I'm about there! How are your coming along?

So far everything is all good! 6/7 programs have everything they need and have submitted my apps to the psych departments. I'm not sure if that makes me excited or terrified. 1 of them gave me hell getting things together, but ultimately it was all there. 1 wants my "transcripts" from "advanced courses" I took in high school. I thought that was odd, lol. I hope your applications run smoothly and we can simmer instead of boil in application anxieties LOL