When to take Step 2 CK for EM

[AthleteDoc7]

Hey all, I had a quick question regarding when to take step 2 ck as someone who will be applying to EM next cycle. It seems a lot of people at my school take July off to get step 2 CS done end of June, then CK done end of July. That would mean home EM rotation in August, then an away in September and October. This seems late to me if you're trying to get SLOEs in on time for interview invites.

Is this how most people do it? Does it just work itself out by having a regular letter to "fill a spot" until the second SLOE comes in, or should I really be looking for a rotation in July? Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Jabbed]

Hey all, I had a quick question regarding when to take step 2 ck as someone who will be applying to EM next cycle. It seems a lot of people at my school take July off to get step 2 CS done end of June, then CK done end of July. That would mean home EM rotation in August, then an away in September and October. This seems late to me if you're trying to get SLOEs in on time for interview invites.

Is this how most people do it? Does it just work itself out by having a regular letter to "fill a spot" until the second SLOE comes in, or should I really be looking for a rotation in July? Thanks!

I would push CS back into the fall. Working EM shifts is basically practicing for CS, and I don't think any places will screen you out based on not having a CS pass.

You need one SLOE to be considered for interviews at most places, but some do state that they require two. If you can swing 2 SLOES + CK before ERAS submission (or before October) your application should be considered 'complete' and give you the best chance for early interviews.

 

[theSmurfette]

It was my experience that September rotations are aware that you need a SLOE from them. I think mine was available by mid-October. Remember, many places don’t start giving invites out until mid-October so don’t worry and will give invites out with only 1 SLOE with the expectation that others will be in by the time interviews happen.

And you only really need 2 SLOE’s. With people going on 2+ away rotations, it’s getting hard to get aways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[contender603]

I took Step 2 CK and CS in November of this year and I was happy with the amount of interviews I received. In hindsight, I would have taken them both earlier just to have them done and not worry about them while planning for my interviews. I'll also second what others have said already regarding number of sloes. My September rotation turned in it's sloe mid-october and I only had one prior to that and still received interviews that first week.

 

[boomshaketheroom]

It does depend a little on how you did on step 1. If you blew it out of the water, you can afford to do rotations first. If you think you need a little help from an improved CK, its smart to get that early and while info from third year is still fresh. You'll get a SLOE from a home rotation and a SLOE from each away. You should be able to have at least 2 total with the schedule you suggested in the OP. Most places just need the 2 SLOEs and dont care about CS a I learned earlier this application cycle. You can always use any more SLOEs and CS info as an update if you want to check back in with programs you havent hear from.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

And you only really need 2 SLOE’s. With people going on 2+ away rotations, it’s getting hard to get aways.

I totally agree with this sentiment. When people are doing 4-5 rotations in EM, it kills others chances of getting rotations/SLOEs. I agree in principle you only need to submit 2 SLOEs to programs, though I would say its handy to have a third in case you don't want to submit one. If you only have two ED rotations scheduled, get two SLOEs by mid October, and your grade for one of the rotations has some damning comments on the evaluation and you know for certain that SLOE isn't going to be a good one, then you are kind of screwed if you don't have another one coming in. Having a second good sloe can help balance out an average SLOE. And if you find out one of the SLOEs is troubling (lets say on your first interview) and you are applying to a second batch of programs, you can choose not to submit the bad SLOE and just submit the other two.

 

[AthleteDoc7]

It does depend a little on how you did on step 1. If you blew it out of the water, you can afford to do rotations first. If you think you need a little help from an improved CK, its smart to get that early and while info from third year is still fresh. You'll get a SLOE from a home rotation and a SLOE from each away. You should be able to have at least 2 total with the schedule you suggested in the OP. Most places just need the 2 SLOEs and dont care about CS a I learned earlier this application cycle. You can always use any more SLOEs and CS info as an update if you want to check back in with programs you havent hear from.

as background i'm ~245-250 on step 1. i think i definitely want to take CS immediately after third year in June because I hear horror stories of people failing and struggling to retake it in time, so I want that over with. i'm not worried about failing, just want to play it safe and get that done.

I kind of feel similarly with getting CK done early. I just want to be sure getting SLOEs after rotations in August and September isn't considered "too late", though I'd probably still do a third in October to have another one and something to update programs with. I just want to be certain that not having your second SLOE until mid to late October after a September away is not considered damaging to getting invites.

 

[surely]

as background i'm ~245-250 on step 1. i think i definitely want to take CS immediately after third year in June because I hear horror stories of people failing and struggling to retake it in time, so I want that over with. i'm not worried about failing, just want to play it safe and get that done.

I kind of feel similarly with getting CK done early. I just want to be sure getting SLOEs after rotations in August and September isn't considered "too late", though I'd probably still do a third in October to have another one and something to update programs with. I just want to be certain that not having your second SLOE until mid to late October after a September away is not considered damaging to getting invites.

Don't take CS so early that you get your score back before ERAS opens. If you do and you fail, you have to send in your failing score with your ERAS application, and it'll torpedo your application. Take it late enough that your score comes back just after ERAS opens, so you can either release the passing score or retake it right away.

 

[surely]

Do you have other suggestions ?

You have the strangest post history. Are you a bot? Can you tell me more about what it's like to be a bot?

 

[Jlaw]

Every applicant should have CK complete before applications open. CS doesn't matter much, most places will interview you without it, though they might pull you from the rank list if a passing score isn't submitted before they rank list is final.

If the score has the potential to affect your application strategy take it as soon as you can at the end of third year. i.e. I had a crap step 1 and was a DO so I wanted my score back by early July because I knew a bad step 2 meant I was going to focus on AOA programs only. I did well and decided to focus my efforts on ACGME. I didn't do comlex PE (cs equivalent) until end of October and no one mentioned it except two places who said "we won't rank you in February if it isn't submitted"

 

[jw3600]

Every applicant should have CK complete before applications open. CS doesn't matter much, most places will interview you without it, though they might pull you from the rank list if a passing score isn't submitted before they rank list is final.

If the score has the potential to affect your application strategy take it as soon as you can at the end of third year. i.e. I had a crap step 1 and was a DO so I wanted my score back by early July because I knew a bad step 2 meant I was going to focus on AOA programs only. I did well and decided to focus my efforts on ACGME. I didn't do comlex PE (cs equivalent) until end of October and no one mentioned it except two places who said "we won't rank you in February if it isn't submitted"

...this is wrong and you’re giving bad advice. If you go to a top MD school and have a great step 1 you shouldn’t even look at CK until way after applications are in.

 

[Jlaw]

...this is wrong and you’re giving bad advice. If you go to a top MD school and have a great step 1 you shouldn’t even look at CK until way after applications are in.

Ok sorry, if you went to Harvard and scored 270 on step 1, do whatever you want. For the rest of you slackers (probably 95% of applicants), you should most definitely follow my advice. I interviewed at 10 ACGME programs, and my step 2 improvement over step 1 was brought up at every interview. Every single program said something to the effect that step 2 carries more weight. The reason was an old study that linked step 2 scores as being more indicative of first time pass rates on the ABEM exam, which is kind of important to PD's. I'm sure there have been more studies and maybe the data has changed but that is where the step 2 focus came from for EM.

 

[jw3600]

Ok sorry, if you went to Harvard and scored 270 on step 1, do whatever you want. For the rest of you slackers (probably 95% of applicants), you should most definitely follow my advice. I interviewed at 10 ACGME programs, and my step 2 improvement over step 1 was brought up at every interview. Every single program said something to the effect that step 2 carries more weight. The reason was an old study that linked step 2 scores as being more indicative of first time pass rates on the ABEM exam, which is kind of important to PD's. I'm sure there have been more studies and maybe the data has changed but that is where the step 2 focus came from for EM.

Ok. Great step 1 >> improvement from step 1 to step 2. Just because you had something brought up in your interview that was good (which it is, well done) doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I had a 255+ and went to a school ranked top 50 I wouldn’t touch step 2 with a 10 foot point.

 

[Jabbed]

Ok. Great step 1 >> improvement from step 1 to step 2. Just because you had something brought up in your interview that was good (which it is, well done) doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I had a 255+ and went to a school ranked top 50 I wouldn’t touch step 2 with a 10 foot point.

I never understood this logic-- you still have to take it at some point. Dropping 50 points on Step 2 in October just means that you'll be bottom-ranked at top programs rather than not getting an interview. Just take it when you have time to prepare and score well. Along those lines, I feel that you'd maximize your score by taking it as close as possible to the end of 3rd year as possible so all your shelf knowledge is still fresh.

Scored >270 on Step 1, >280 on CK (took in July). By October I could barely pass my SubI shelf.

 

[towelonthefloor]

Ok. Great step 1 >> improvement from step 1 to step 2. Just because you had something brought up in your interview that was good (which it is, well done) doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I had a 255+ and went to a school ranked top 50 I wouldn’t touch step 2 with a 10 foot point.

I personally would just take it early. You dont want to be trying to study during interview season, plus there are specific step 2 deadlines for certain programs. Sure, the majority interview with step 1, but having both opens more doors.
And having your step 2 score in early, you have a better understanding in exactly where you stand during the rank process. If you got a 250 on step 1, and a 230 on step 2 after you interviewed, you dont know how much that hurt you. But if you got a 250 and 230 before you interviewed, id freak out less.

Again this is just my personal experience with the matter. You can take it before or after interviews. But i hate board studying. lol

 

[jw3600]

I never understood this logic-- you still have to take it at some point. Dropping 50 points on Step 2 in October just means that you'll be bottom-ranked at top programs rather than not getting an interview. Just take it when you have time to prepare and score well. Along those lines, I feel that you'd maximize your score by taking it as close as possible to the end of 3rd year as possible so all your shelf knowledge is still fresh.

Scored >270 on Step 1, >280 on CK (took in July). By October I could barely pass my SubI shelf.

If the timing works out well then fine, take it. But by no means do you need it. Maybe it’s just more convenient. Isn’t 280 the max....?

 

[Jlaw]

Ok. Great step 1 >> improvement from step 1 to step 2. Just because you had something brought up in your interview that was good (which it is, well done) doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I had a 255+ and went to a school ranked top 50 I wouldn’t touch step 2 with a 10 foot point.

Personally I would just take it. 255+, top 50 school, you've done great so far, why would you not score well on step 2 even if you barely studied? If your score dropped a little would anyone really care? You need it to be ranked anyway so its not like you can just put it off and hope they never see it. And again my post was directed towards those for who scores and application strategy matter, if you're a top applicant on paper you obviously have more leeway.

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Personally I would just take it. 255+, top 50 school, you've done great so far, why would you not score well on step 2 even if you barely studied? If your score dropped a little would anyone really care? You need it to be ranked anyway so its not like you can just put it off and hope they never see it. And again my post was directed towards those for who scores and application strategy matter, if you're a top applicant on paper you obviously have more leeway.

Honestly, even 20-30 improvement of unclear benefit. I will say that my step 3 was closer to my Step 2, however schools still tend to value Step 1 for some reason. I took Step 2 early and it was nice just to have it done with.

 

[AthleteDoc7]

I never understood this logic-- you still have to take it at some point. Dropping 50 points on Step 2 in October just means that you'll be bottom-ranked at top programs rather than not getting an interview. Just take it when you have time to prepare and score well. Along those lines, I feel that you'd maximize your score by taking it as close as possible to the end of 3rd year as possible so all your shelf knowledge is still fresh.

Scored >270 on Step 1, >280 on CK (took in July). By October I could barely pass my SubI shelf.

what the heck did you do to study for step 2? that's freakish haha. but yeah I think i'm going to go ahead with my plan of CS immediately after the year, then CK a month later (end of July) despite a good step 1 score. thanks everyone!

 

[wareagle726]

FWIW...I took step 2 CK in July, between my home and away rotations. Took step 2 CS in January. Interviewed at 13 places and didn't have anyone bring up my lack of a CS score. I had average CK scores with a good improvement of Step 1 to Step 2 which was brought up in interviews. I would say take it early enough that the programs can see your progress.

 

[W19]

FWIW...I took step 2 CK in July, between my home and away rotations. Took step 2 CS in January. Interviewed at 13 places and didn't have anyone bring up my lack of a CS score. I had average CK scores with a good improvement of Step 1 to Step 2 which was brought up in interviews. I would say take it early enough that the programs can see your progress.

There are some IM programs that require CS for ranking... Maybe things are different for EM.

 

[BabyDaddy]

Hey guys, sorry for the very late reply, but I'm making this decision right now and thought it would be better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one of the exact same topic.

Here's my situation: Avg Step 1 for EM (230-240), OK grades in rotations (all high-pass or pass, but no honors), I go to a moderately competitive MD school.

I have my Sub-I scheduled for June, and my away in July. My summer is packed with rotations that I'll need to work hard in, and I don't have a month off to study for Step 2. Should I put it off and apply with just step 1? Complicating my situation is that I really need to stay in a specific area with family if at all possible, and the program I want to match to is moderately competitive. What to do?

Thanks!
-Babydaddy

 

[Stephanopolous]

I personally would take it after I have time to study and prepare. You have a solid step 1 score so it's not like you need to demonstrate improvement. Can you take time off in the fall to study for it?

 

[BabyDaddy]

I personally would take it after I have time to study and prepare. You have a solid step 1 score so it's not like you need to demonstrate improvement. Can you take time off in the fall to study for it?

Thanks Stephanopolous. Yeah, I just met with my EM advisor and she said the same thing. I will have time to study in September, and I might still get my score back in time for programs to see it on their first pass through applications, which my advisor says doesn't begin until early October at many schools. From what I'm told... Taking CK when well-prepared>> Getting score before applications close.

Thanks again,

-BabyDaddy