Where are all the happy doctors?

[billybobchacha]

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I recently stumbled on this article while researching med-schools. Before reading the article I had already heard that compensation for medical professionals has been waning over the past decade, and this in itself doesn't really bother me. I know as a doctor I would be able to live a financially comfortable life while doing something that I love and that I feel is truly important/worthwhile. It's the comments that scare me. After reading all but a few of the 82 comments I was left wondering, "Are there any doctors- that are under 50 years old- that are struggling through the current crisis and still love their jobs? Or is the relentless uphill battle of increasing paperwork, diminishing financial returns, loss of freedom, the need to practice defensive medicine, and a generally ungrateful public universally jading? Do the challenges that practicing medicine in today's American society pose outweigh the obviously great things about the profession? Are there any doctors who would without hesitation encourage an interested family member or friend to pursue a career in medicine, assuming they knew the pitfalls of modern practice?"

Any comments from practicing physicians-happy or frustrated-would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Will

 

[niranjan162]

I recently stumbled on this article while researching med-schools. Before reading the article I had already heard that compensation for medical professionals has been waning over the past decade, and this in itself doesn't really bother me. I know as a doctor I would be able to live a financially comfortable life while doing something that I love and that I feel is truly important/worthwhile. It's the comments that scare me. After reading all but a few of the 82 comments I was left wondering, "Are there any doctors- that are under 50 years old- that are struggling through the current crisis and still love their jobs? Or is the relentless uphill battle of increasing paperwork, diminishing financial returns, loss of freedom, the need to practice defensive medicine, and a generally ungrateful public universally jading? Do the challenges that practicing medicine in today's American society pose outweigh the obviously great things about the profession? Are there any doctors who would without hesitation encourage an interested family member or friend to pursue a career in medicine, assuming they knew the pitfalls of modern practice?"

Any comments from practicing physicians-happy or frustrated-would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Will

All the doctors Ive talked to have told me not to go into medicine. Some of the med students Ive talked to have said that while its alotta work its still fun.

There's some threads around saying how the people who are most disappointed are the ones who think of medicine as more than a job i.e. a "calling" etc. Im not sure how you know you would love being a doctor. But i think this topic is something alot of premeds dont think about

 

[Doodledog]

I recently stumbled on this article while researching med-schools. Before reading the article I had already heard that compensation for medical professionals has been waning over the past decade, and this in itself doesn't really bother me. I know as a doctor I would be able to live a financially comfortable life while doing something that I love and that I feel is truly important/worthwhile. It's the comments that scare me. After reading all but a few of the 82 comments I was left wondering, "Are there any doctors- that are under 50 years old- that are struggling through the current crisis and still love their jobs? Or is the relentless uphill battle of increasing paperwork, diminishing financial returns, loss of freedom, the need to practice defensive medicine, and a generally ungrateful public universally jading? Do the challenges that practicing medicine in today's American society pose outweigh the obviously great things about the profession? Are there any doctors who would without hesitation encourage an interested family member or friend to pursue a career in medicine, assuming they knew the pitfalls of modern practice?"

Any comments from practicing physicians-happy or frustrated-would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Will

I am grateful every day for my career as a physician and the opportunities it has provided me and continues to provide me. But, since I am over 50, it appears you are not interested in my perspective.

 

[NonTradMed]

I recently stumbled on this article while researching med-schools. Before reading the article I had already heard that compensation for medical professionals has been waning over the past decade, and this in itself doesn't really bother me. I know as a doctor I would be able to live a financially comfortable life while doing something that I love and that I feel is truly important/worthwhile. It's the comments that scare me. After reading all but a few of the 82 comments I was left wondering, "Are there any doctors- that are under 50 years old- that are struggling through the current crisis and still love their jobs? Or is the relentless uphill battle of increasing paperwork, diminishing financial returns, loss of freedom, the need to practice defensive medicine, and a generally ungrateful public universally jading? Do the challenges that practicing medicine in today's American society pose outweigh the obviously great things about the profession? Are there any doctors who would without hesitation encourage an interested family member or friend to pursue a career in medicine, assuming they knew the pitfalls of modern practice?"

Any comments from practicing physicians-happy or frustrated-would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Will

I want to point out that online posters tend to be skewed as they're a self-selecting population. The people who post are ones who most likely frustrated/angry or feel strongly about the subject at hand or who want to be contrarian.

For example, an article about illegal immigrants will see many posts from people who want to shot illegal immigrants on sight, or install snipers at the border or other such extreme positions that most people will probably not share. An article talking about kids struggling to get into ivy league articles will attract posters who talk about skipping college and still ending up the head of neurosurgery at Hopkins.

Hence, an article about why not to become a doctor will attract disgruntled doctors. Also, people who think medicine is great are less likely to post because that is the stereotypical belief. Posters want to have the "Aha! See? You thought this but you are wrong and I am proof!"

If you had an article about reasons to not teach I'm sure there will be disgruntled teachers posting about why their jobs suck.

People also like to vent online, they can post their unfiltered thoughts without fear of retribution.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of miserable doctors, and your link provides a glimpse into a portion of that misery. But there are plenty of miserable lawyers, psychologists, teachers too. People are more dissatisfied with medicine than ever before, but your link provides a skewed view of that.

And personally, I've met plenty of doctors "under 50" who enjoy their jobs.

The attitude I'd take is to not put medicine on a pedestal. It's not going to solve all your problems. But it may be a job that can help people, that exposes you to new ideas and allow you a financially comfortable life.

Shadow some doctors, let them tell you what they think. Get a feel for what they do. Medicine isn't for everyone. Don't assume that because there are unhappy physicians, that you will be one too.

 

[kasoy]

Well spoken

 

[TheMagicCookie]

I am grateful every day for my career as a physician and the opportunities it has provided me and continues to provide me. But, since I am over 50, it appears you are not interested in my perspective.

Tildy! Haven't seen you on SDN lately. Have you been hiding from us?!

 

[Doodledog]

Tildy! Haven't seen you on SDN lately. Have you been hiding from us?!

I've been doing patient care and that keeps me busy.

Besides, I'm never really gone, I just use one of my troll accounts when you think I'm gone.

 

[CScull]

... you all have undercover troll identities?

*cues Secret Agent Man*

 

[tennisball80]

Overrated Career: Physician

Thinking to become a PA now ?

 

[TheMagicCookie]

Overrated Career: Physician

Thinking to become a PA now ?

Nope...there are pros and cons to EVERY profession, regardless of the level of education or prestige. There are problems with being a PA, too.

 

[Caesar]

All of the physicians I have met love their jobs, Those that hate it are just more vocal.

 

[DrYoda]

Those that hate it are just more vocal.

This is very true.


Also, there are tons of people in the world who dislike their jobs, it's nothing unique to physicians.

 

[tennisball80]

What I can suggest is that don't go into medicine because you want to get $$$ and chicks.

$$ is great but you will be poor for at least 11 years (4 years of undergrad+4 years med school+3 years minimum residency). And you gotta sacrifice your life for 11 years and more and work your ass off.

 

[billybobchacha]

I am grateful every day for my career as a physician and the opportunities it has provided me and continues to provide me. But, since I am over 50, it appears you are not interested in my perspective.

Sorry, Tildy. I didn't mean any disrespect to doctors over 50. I just noticed a lot of the comments I read talked about how older generations of doctors are less likely to feel down about the profession then their successors, so I was more interested in what younger docs had to say. Your input is still appreciated though. It seems you have no regrets about becoming a doctor. But taking into consideration the direction you (as a doctor) see medicine moving in this country, would you want your children (nieces, other young loved ones) to be future doctors? Just curious.
Thanks

 

[Doodledog]

Sorry, Tildy. I didn't mean any disrespect to doctors over 50. I just noticed a lot of the comments I read talked about how older generations of doctors are less likely to feel down about the profession then their successors, so I was more interested in what younger docs had to say. Your input is still appreciated though. It seems you have no regrets about becoming a doctor. But taking into consideration the direction you (as a doctor) see medicine moving in this country, would you want your children (nieces, other young loved ones) to be future doctors? Just curious.
Thanks

One of my kids who is in high school now is very much pre-med (and no, s/he isn't on hSDN or SDN at all) and I'm delighted by the fact that s/he is interested in medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is very true.


Also, there are tons of people in the world who dislike their jobs, it's nothing unique to physicians.

I would suggest that the percentages are worse in medicine, actually, due to the difficulty of changing paths once you invest $150k in tuition debt and X years of training into a field that doesn't really translate well into other paths. A lawyer, banker, executive who dislikes his job can relatively easily extricate and change careers, with less debt and a broader range of career choices. Medicine has much more significant golden handcuffs. I would also suggest that because too many people decide they want to be a doctor far far too early in life than most other fields, they tend to go through college with a myopic view, don't try other things. As a result, there will be a ton of people in medicine who don't really belong there, and are guaranteed to be unhappy when they finally get a whiff of what medicine really is (as opposed to what they imagined it to be). It isn't about respect and money and helping people. It's about tons of paperwork, lots of long hours, being under appreciated, underpaid, over-debt burdened and getting jaded by patients who only see you as a means to get their next dilaudid fix. It is a long long grueling sleep deprived path, and unless you love it, you are merely enduring it. So anyone who goes into medicine for any other reason besides liking and being genuinely interested in the job, (as opposed to the salary, respect, prestige, "helping people" etc, which are sentiments that won't get you through the many rough spots), you are probably making a mistake, and will become bitter and jaded very fast. So yes, it's different than any other job in this respect.

You are minimizing the honest warnings by saying "all jobs suck". While that may be true to a degree, it is really a cop out. Not every job is right for every person, and every job will suck to a varying degree to different people. I'd say medicine is wrong for more people than most fields, but for the right people it's great. So don't try to write off complaints as "every field has it's naysayers". That avoids having to look at the heart of the matter. And this heart is far from perfect for many.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I think a large part of why so many people complain about medicine is that going in, they have a very idealized view of it. It's beyond cliche to say you want to be a doctor "to help people" but if that's why you're doing it, that's just going to set you up for disappointment because 1) there are a great many jobs that help people, 2) the corollary is that they're going to be grateful and 3) that places your happiness on the response of other people, 4) it makes all the extra BS that goes on practically intolerable because those things are rarely towards that aim.

There's a reason why medical schools place so much emphasis on making sure applicants have experience with doctors and patients. It's about all they can do to help screen people to avoid that burnout and bitterness.

I for one am beyond ecstatic to be graduating with my MD in May, and I'm incredibly excited to start my pediatrics residency. But I've wanted to be a physician since I was 3, know that I get a lot of satisfaction from the social aspects of medicine - just from talking to patients and their families, love solving problems, and know that I have fun when around kids of nearly every age. Simply put, I've spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about how medicine fits with my personality and the things I like to do...and I know that positions like being a nurse or PA won't stroke my ego enough to make me happy.

What it boils down to is that I've been incredibly selfish. I've made sure that my career makes me happy, and that my happiness is not dependent on the way others treat me, but on the things I have to do on a daily basis.

 

[Gallix23]

I agree with NonTradMed

You have to remember that the people who go on internet forums normally do so to either A. Get information, or B. Rant. The doctors that my mom works with (she is a CCRN) absolutely LOVE their job, as do doctors that she worked with in the past. You have to remember that people on internet forums barely represent any number of the thousands of doctors in the country, and there are tons of perfectly happy doctors sitting at home right now instead of on SDN =)

 

[Baylor91Bound]

I believe a lot of the reason you find older doctors to be more frustrated is because their job has changed drastically from when they began practicing. Now, a lot of the patients are in it for the money. And of course that brings more paperwork, insurance, etc.

 

[MaximusD]

Where are all the happy doctors?


Answer: On vacation.

 

[Doodledog]

I believe a lot of the reason you find older doctors to be more frustrated is because their job has changed drastically from when they began practicing. Now, a lot of the patients are in it for the money. And of course that brings more paperwork, insurance, etc.

Interesting, up above I was disqualified from answering because the OP thought that older docs were less frustrated. Now, you say we're more frustrated.

Actually, in my experience there's not much difference in job satisfaction between older and younger docs. Each group has its own issues in terms of the career. Age isn't the biggest or even a major covariate in my view.

By the way, except for perhaps a few folks with bad backs trying to get money from Social security, etc, I'm curious about "a lot" of patients who go to their doctor "for the money." What do you mean? How do "a lot" of patients derive income from visiting a physician?

 

[Terpskins99]

There's some threads around saying how the people who are most disappointed are the ones who think of medicine as more than a job i.e. a "calling" etc.

That is exactly the point. Its just a job, like any other job.

 

[Doodledog]

That is exactly the point. Its just a job, like any other job.

This statement is a mantra of SDN, but I don't really understand it. Perhaps you can help me before I decide if I agree or disagree by explaining it to me more. So,

1. Are a "calling" and a "job" completely opposite perspectives? Is it possible to care about job aspects (money, career, hours, etc) while still believing that being a physician has special personal characteristics related to motivation that could be encompassed by the word "calling"? If so, what characteristics? If not, why not?

2. Can we see medicine as a "calling" without specific reference to a deity?

3. If it is a "job", what does that imply related to our relationship with patients and their families?

Thanks. I'm not sure that one word can describe anyone's motivation for medicine, but if I can understand what is meant by that word, I can at least comment on how I personally have seen medical careers evolve related to it.

 

[Terpskins99]

1. Are a "calling" and a "job" completely opposite perspectives? Is it possible to care about job aspects (money, career, hours, etc) while still believing that being a physician has special personal characteristics related to motivation that could be encompassed by the word "calling"? If so, what characteristics? If not, why not?

I think the whole notion of a "calling" to one specific profession is ridiculous. Now a calling to health care in general, thats fine. But I see too many folks that come across with this attitude that being a physician and only a physician is their "true calling". Why? Oh, I get a whole host of answers stating how they have a passion for health care/service/science/sick people... whatever. Of course, none of these are ever specific for a career as a doctor. Anyhow, a "calling" never gets anyone through medical school and residency. Its about who is good enough. Period.

You could be a colossal jerk and absolutely despise patients. Does that mean you'll translate into a poor doctor? Frankly, I don't think so. In my limited time during medical clerkships, I've seen several attendings and residents that harbored this attitude towards their patients and in most instances they were superb physicians.

2. Can we see medicine as a "calling" without specific reference to a deity?

I never did. I simply refuse to acknowledge that any such "calling" exists.

3. If it is a "job", what does that imply related to our relationship with patients and their families?

For me, it implies nothing. Its the same relationship between any healthcare provider and their patient. Part of the job is to communicate to others information what they need to know in order to take care of themselves. Physically, mentally and emotionally.