Where did I go wrong for T20s?

[liao1]

CA ORM no gap year, applied with LM 75 (4.0/517)

Applied to 25ish schools, received interviews to 2 T5s (HMS/Hopkins), 4 more T20s, then 5 more in the T30-55 range. Accepted to 3 in the T30-55, then waitlisted everywhere but HMS (rejected). Am I missing something for these kinds of schools? Or were my interview skills poor? Just wondering what I did wrong for T20 schools. Wondering if MCAT could also be too low. Thanks in advance.

Clinical volunteering: 500ish
Non-clinical volunteering: 2500ish, founded NGO
Research 1000ish hours, 6 pubs middle author, one first author, 1 book chapter, 3 abstracts
Shadowing: 100ish hours

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[liao1]

@LizzyM @Goro would appreciate any insight

 

[HAB]

It’s March and you’re on 5 T20 WLs (plus 2 other WLs), and you have 3 acceptances to T50 US MD schools? No need for a post-mortem. You did great. You may still get into one or more T20. Worst case, you go to med school.

 

[liao1]

It’s March and you’re on 5 T20 WLs (plus 2 other WLs), and you have 3 acceptances to T50 US MD schools? You did great. You may still get into one or more T20s. Worst case, you go to med school. CTFO.

Thanks for the response, haven't been feeling great because of 5 WLs/R in a row haha. Assuming all WLs will be Rs considering how low WL ->A rates are

 

[MDMechEngr]

It is not your interview skills b/c you were accepted to 3 schools. You have a good chance of getting off one of your T20 WL. GL

 

[lacrossegirl420]

The honest answer is your MCAT

 

[deleted1139416]

Life is unpredictable. Enjoy your acceptance.

 

[liao1]

The honest answer is your MCAT

What MCAT score would I have needed for it to not hold me back?

 

[lacrossegirl420]

@liao1 - I’d say 522 is when you can be sure MCAT had nothing to do with it

 

[Med Ed]

What MCAT score would I have needed for it to not hold me back?

Considering a retake?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Once you accept that "You can do everything right and still not get an offer" you will find some peace.

It's too early... let CYMS process take its course.

Read While You Are Waiting: Processing Health Professions Applications - SDN .

It may sound cruel, but your buyer's remorse will fall on deaf ears. For heaven's sake, don't even think about reapplying.

 

[Goro]

@LizzyM @Goro would appreciate any insight

It's an Olympic event, and the difference of 0.1 secs can make one a medalist, or a non-qualifier.

You have multiple accepts. You're going to be a doctor. Be thankful.

 

[reinforced]

What MCAT score would I have needed for it to not hold me back?

Don’t listen to them dog, you interviewed at Harvard. 522, 517, 5 billion, it doesn’t matter what your mcat was. If you got struck by lightning tomorrow you would have accomplished more than most! And not to mention, you’ll probably get off a waitlist.

 

[i-doctor]

Chalk it up to the randomness of the process.
3 Acceptances and 5 waitlists mean that your interview skills were fine.
Consider yourself fortunate. I’ve heard of applicants like you who get no acceptances. They are waitlisted or rejected from T20’s, and the lower ranked schools don’t accept them due to yield protection.

 

[Teisuto]

Pretty similar situation, I had 8 interviews, 5 of which were T20, and I got waitlisted/rejected from almost all of them. I think the factor of luck, especially at that level, is pretty big

 

[deleted1095841]

I know it doesn't feel that way right now, but you're actually in a pretty good situation.

You have 3 acceptances, and are basically guaranteed to be a doctor!

That being said, it's reasonable to want to go to a T20, and that is where the disappointment may be coming from. It is healthy to reflect on what we could have done better, so we can do better next time (the identical situation will never repeat itself, but we mean in broad strokes). But reflection is healthy only up to a certain point. Beyond that, it becomes unhealthy.

I do not think your MCAT was too low, despite what has been said. If it was too low, you would have been screened out post-secondary and not recieved an II at any T20s.

I do not think you interviewed poorly, because if you did, you would not have gotten any acceptances. Even "low-ranked" medical schools care that their students are personable and will not hesitate to reject someone who comes across poorly on interview day. My guess is that you interview skills are average, or maybe slightly below average. There's also lots of subjectivity and randomness to interviews.

Even though the odds of coming off a single waitlist are low, you are on 5 waitlists total, so your odds at coming off at one of them are not too bad. I would recommend keeping in contact with the schools that waitlisted you (within reason; don't annoy them) and express your genuine interest. And if you have any meaningful updates, let them know.

Good luck!

 

[LizzyM]

I do not think your MCAT was too low, despite what has been said. If it was too low, you would have been screened out post-secondary and not recieved an II at any T20s.

It was not too low to preclude an interview but it ended up being too low for an offer of admission at schools where, post-interview, the applicant's place on the staircase didn't move up enough -- although it could have if the interview had blown the committee away. The people higher on the staircase got in the door and the rest ended up on the WL.

 

[senecca]

Chalk it up to the randomness of the process.
3 Acceptances and 5 waitlists mean that your interview skills were fine.
Consider yourself fortunate. I’ve heard of applicants like you who get no acceptances. They are waitlisted or rejected from T20’s, and the lower ranked schools don’t accept them due to yield protection.

People with 3.9+ and 524, 526 hasn’t gotten any acceptance yet and only two interviews. Yield protection is screwing/ruining the lives of so many applicants. I hope somebody from AAMC take notice of it and do something.

 

[deleted1065184]

It was not too low to preclude an interview but it ended up being too low for an offer of admission at schools where, post-interview, the applicant's place on the staircase didn't move up enough -- although it could have if the interview had blown the committee away. The people higher on the staircase got in the door and the rest ended up on the WL.

I've always liked your staircase analogy and still do. One question I have, though, is why everybody is choosing to say it's the MCAT and not the interview for OP? Or, more likely, a combination of both.

The MCAT was good enough to get OP and interview. The interview was not good enough to get OP accepted to some of the schools. The MCAT + interview was good enough to get OP accepted to 3 schools. OPs MCAT/GPA is above the median for almost every school in the T30-T55 range, but they were still WL'd at 2/5 of those schools.

Not that it matters at this point, but it may be helpful for OP in the future (i.e. residency application season) to consider that they may be able to improve their interview skills and be even more competitive.

 

[Med Ed]

I hope somebody from AAMC take notice of it and do something.

Under what authority?

 

[LizzyM]

I've always liked your staircase analogy and still do. One question I have, though, is why everybody is choosing to say it's the MCAT and not the interview for OP? Or, more likely, a combination of both.

The MCAT was good enough to get OP and interview. The interview was not good enough to get OP accepted to some of the schools. The MCAT + interview was good enough to get OP accepted to 3 schools. OPs MCAT/GPA is above the median for almost every school in the T30-T55 range, but they were still WL'd at 2/5 of those schools.

Not that it matters at this point, but it may be helpful for OP in the future (i.e. residency application season) to consider that they may be able to improve their interview skills and be even more competitive.

A higher MCAT would have placed the OP higher on the staircase pre-interview. (A higher GPA was not mathematically possible but could have been the weak spot for some other interviewed applicants) With no change in interview performance, a higher MCAT might have gotten the applicant an offer of admission.

Sure, an exceptional interview might have improved the OP's place on the staircase but maybe it was not enough given that some applicants higher on the staircase who might have been expected to crash and burns and be demoted down to the bottom of the staircase didn't bomb and thus there were just too many terrific applicants ahead of the OP.

 

[deleted1065184]

A higher MCAT would have placed the OP higher on the staircase pre-interview. (A higher GPA was not mathematically possible but could have been the weak spot for some other interviewed applicants) With no change in interview performance, a higher MCAT might have gotten the applicant an offer of admission.

Sure, an exceptional interview might have improved the OP's place on the staircase but maybe it was not enough given that some applicants higher on the staircase who might have been expected to crash and burns and be demoted down to the bottom of the staircase didn't bomb and thus there were just too many terrific applicants ahead of the OP.

Yeah not disagreeing with any of this ofc, just wondering if OP actually needed an *exceptional* interview to get in...is it possible that despite a mediocre interview, OPs perfect GPA and good MCAT still got them into 3 schools?

 

[deleted1065184]

People with 3.9+ and 524, 526 hasn’t gotten any acceptance yet and only two interviews. Yield protection is screwing/ruining the lives of so many applicants. I hope somebody from AAMC take notice of it and do something.

You really cannot make the assumption that "yield protection" is the reason ultra-high stat applicants occasionally have trouble getting into schools. The fact still remains that they're overwhelmingly more likely than most other students to get accepted to medical school. Is it possible that, for many of these applicants, other important factors were sacrificed in order to achieve the ultra-high stats? And since stats lose meaning after a certain point, it's not really that impressive anymore?

 

[LizzyM]

Yeah not disagreeing with any of this ofc, just wondering if OP actually needed an *exceptional* interview to get in...is it possible that despite a mediocre interview, OPs perfect GPA and good MCAT still got them into 3 schools?

Different tiers of schools. At a high tier school, there are likely to be more high performing candidates on the staircase ahead of you.

And sometimes it is just the luck of getting a sweetheart of an interviewer who sees your potential vs someone who doesn't connect with you.

You really cannot make the assumption that "yield protection" is the reason ultra-high stat applicants occasionally have trouble getting into schools. The fact still remains that they're overwhelmingly more likely than most other students to get accepted to medical school. Is it possible that, for many of these applicants, other important factors were sacrificed in order to achieve the ultra-high stats? And since stats lose meaning after a certain point, it's not really that impressive anymore?

True! And entitlement is very unattractive in a candidate. (You might be surprised how many interviewees show up with an attitude that signals "I'm so great,; you'd be lucky to get me, convince me to attend your school. ")

 

[deleted1118591]

You really cannot make the assumption that "yield protection" is the reason ultra-high stat applicants occasionally have trouble getting into schools. The fact still remains that they're overwhelmingly more likely than most other students to get accepted to medical school. Is it possible that, for many of these applicants, other important factors were sacrificed in order to achieve the ultra-high stats? And since stats lose meaning after a certain point, it's not really that impressive anymore?

I only got interviews at T20s and I've heard from enough people (including people who got more IIs than I did) with similar experiences that I can say that that's not uncommon. Granted you can never say for sure that yield protection is the cause in any given case, but you also can't automatically assume that people with high stats who don't get As have major flaws or red flags in their apps

 

[deleted1065184]

Different tiers of schools. At a high tier school, there are likely to be more high performing candidates on the staircase ahead of you.

Yeah I wasn't clear, I meant to say OP may have gotten into the slightly less competitive schools with a mediocre interview bc of stats...but at schools where everybody applying has good stats, the stats weren't able to overcome mediocre interviews. Just speculation ofc.

 

[deleted1065184]

I only got interviews at T20s and I've heard from enough people (including people who got more IIs than I did) with similar experiences that I can say that that's not uncommon. Granted you can never say for sure that yield protection is the cause in any given case, but you also can't automatically assume that people with high stats who don't get As have major flaws or red flags in their apps

Not dismissing your experiences, just saying you can't automatically assume it's yield protection. I interviewed at and was accepted to several T20s, including a T3 school...and also some unranked schools with MCAT averages around 500.

From my experience, if you are a good fit for the mission of a school, they'll often give you attention even if your MCAT/GPA is well above their 90th percentile.

There are students with decent/good stats who apply to HBCU med schools as "back up" schools every year, with absolutely no mention of serving marginalized communities or health disparities. And then they're surprised they don't get interviews lol

 

[deleted1118591]

Not dismissing your experiences, just saying you can't automatically assume it's yield protection. I interviewed at and was accepted to several T20s, including a T3 school...and also some unranked schools with MCAT averages around 500.

From my experience, if you are a good fit for the mission of a school, they'll often give you attention even if your MCAT/GPA is well above their 90th percentile.

There are students with decent/good stats who apply to HBCU med schools as "back up" schools every year, with absolutely no mention of serving marginalized communities or health disparities. And then they're surprised they don't get interviews lol

In my personal opinion I was a pretty good mission fit at the lower-ranked schools I applied to, and none of them were very OOS-unfriendly state schools or low yield. Of course that doesn't mean that yield protection was the cause and I'm not claiming it was, but I don't think it's correct to say that yield protection never happens, and if an applicant gets interviews at T20s but not lower-ranked schools it's obviously not because their application is weak. This process is just impossible to predict because of all the nuances and the extremely low acceptance rates across the board

 

[deleted1065184]

I don't think it's correct to say that yield protection never happens, and if an applicant gets interviews at T20s but not lower-ranked schools it's obviously not because their application is weak.

Sure is a good thing I never said this, huh? Lol.

 

[deleted1118591]

Is it possible that, for many of these applicants, other important factors were sacrificed in order to achieve the ultra-high stats?

This is the part I was referring to. All I'm saying is that high-stat applicants who have trouble getting in anywhere don't necessarily have major flaws.

Edit: Also gonna bow out of this discussion now before we detract too much from the original question. Good luck with getting off your WLs, OP, but also realize that so many people would kill to be in your shoes right now.

 

[deleted1065184]

This is the part I was referring to. All I'm saying is that high-stat applicants who have trouble getting in anywhere don't necessarily have major flaws.

Edit: Also gonna bow out of this discussion now before we detract too much from the original question. Good luck with getting off your WLs, OP, but also realize that so many people would kill to be in your shoes right now.

Yes, I posed it as a question. You're making an argument against something that wasn't stated. But agreed, going slightly off-topic now.

OP, you're going to medical school and that's a big feat. Congrats on that, and fingers crossed you get off of more WLs!

 

[liao1]

@I'mInDer! @updatedautopsyreport @LizzyM @Med Ed

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Was I naive to hope in holistic review? I did recognize that my MCAT was low but I didn't think it was THAT low, especially given my relatively strong GPA. I had concerns about my MCAT before applying but I had thought that my EC's (particularly research and nonclinical volunteering) would balance that out. Was my score so low that these factors made no difference? Or are my other experiences not particularly unique? Maybe I'm overestimating how strong my extracurriculars are and many other applicants have similar or better ones. Would be curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

 

[deleted1065184]

The most honest answer is nobody on here knows, unless they personally were involved in the review of your application. It could've been a variety of factors (including any of the ones you mentioned), and then there's also just an element of luck involved in admissions.

The question I have for you, though, is why does it matter for you now? You've already gotten into 3 schools, and you're statistically likely to get off of at least 1 of the waitlists. Unless you're planning to decline all your current offers and reapply (would be a terrible idea lol), it functionally just doesn't matter for you at this point. Don't get yourself worked up over something that you don't have any control over and won't impact your future in any way.

There were schools I didn't expect to get into that loved me, and other schools where I had very strong connections that rejected me pre-interview lol. It left me kinda confused, but ultimately I realized I'd never have the answer and it didn't matter bc it wouldn't impact my life anyway, so I moved on. I think that's the best thing for you at this point. Move on and start weighing the pros and cons of your multiple offers.

 

[liao1]

The most honest answer is nobody on here knows, unless they personally were involved in the review of your application. It could've been a variety of factors (including any of the ones you mentioned), and then there's also just an element of luck involved in admissions.

The question I have for you, though, is why does it matter for you now? You've already gotten into 3 schools, and you're statistically likely to get off of at least 1 of the waitlists. Unless you're planning to decline all your current offers and reapply (would be a terrible idea lol), it functionally just doesn't matter for you at this point. Don't get yourself worked up over something that you don't have any control over and won't impact your future in any way.

There were schools I didn't expect to get into that loved me, and other schools where I had very strong connections that rejected me pre-interview lol. It left me kinda confused, but ultimately I realized I'd never have the answer and it didn't matter bc it wouldn't impact my life anyway, so I moved on. I think that's the best thing for you at this point. Move on and start weighing the pros and cons of your multiple offers.

I guess I'm curious for a couple of reasons

1. My partner is applying this upcoming cycle with almost identical stats, wondering where I went wrong to see if I can offer them any advice

2. If my interview skills are mediocre or poor, then it means I would need to work on them when it comes time for residency

3. I'm not sure if I'm reasonably likely to get off even one waitlist. Would those waitlist spots not just go to applicants with higher stats? I feel like I have seen a trend where applicants who get off one or multiple WL's usually are higher stat applicants.

4. Wondering why exactly it would be a terrible idea. I know that the common advice is to just go to a school that accepts you, but I am reasonably confident I could score higher on the MCAT given I studied only for 1.5 months to get my original score. I know obviously a higher score isn't guaranteed especially given the difficulty of the test, but if I were to get a significantly higher score (maybe 520+), and be able to go to a school I'm happier about, what precisely would make that plan such a bad idea? I feel like going to a T20 school would make my life in medical school significantly better as well (no internal ranking, no AOA, better research opportunities and more prestige for the match given P/F step 1). I would also then be able to apply with my partner and start school at the same time. Do schools blacklist you if they've seen you've been accepted previously?

I'm genuinely curious so I apologize if anything I've said has been offensive.

 

[canarystones]

@I'mInDer! @updatedautopsyreport @LizzyM @Med Ed

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Was I naive to hope in holistic review? I did recognize that my MCAT was low but I didn't think it was THAT low, especially given my relatively strong GPA. I had concerns about my MCAT before applying but I had thought that my EC's (particularly research and nonclinical volunteering) would balance that out. Was my score so low that these factors made no difference? Or are my other experiences not particularly unique? Maybe I'm overestimating how strong my extracurriculars are and many other applicants have similar or better ones. Would be curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

With the Lizzy M staircase analogy, I think people have to start realizing that their LOR, MCAT, Gpa (including trends), work and activities writing quality, narrative and future goals, personal statement, secondaries, and interview performance are all huge factors in determining your place on the "staircase" and whether you get accepted or rejected.

It could be anything; you could have had one lukewarm LOR, failed to connect with your interviewers or the schools you applied to preferred someone with different goals. Two people can have the same activity but write about it differently and have different takeaways. It's impossible to know why you weren't accepted to the T20s.

You were probably lower on the staircase or maybe had average interviewing skills. You may think your ECs are great, but compared to your peers in the T20 applicant pool, you could be average or below average, thus, a lower ranking on the staircase. You should just be grateful for where you are. Everything happens for a reason.


Retaking the MCAT and declining multiple acceptances would show poor judgment. You come across as if your sense of worth comes from attending a T20 school. I don't know why people apply to schools they don't want to attend.

 

[zestyzigzagoon]

I guess I'm curious for a couple of reasons

1. My partner is applying this upcoming cycle with almost identical stats, wondering where I went wrong to see if I can offer them any advice

2. If my interview skills are mediocre or poor, then it means I would need to work on them when it comes time for residency

3. I'm not sure if I'm reasonably likely to get off even one waitlist. Would those waitlist spots not just go to applicants with higher stats? I feel like I have seen a trend where applicants who get off one or multiple WL's usually are higher stat applicants.

4. Wondering why exactly it would be a terrible idea. I know that the common advice is to just go to a school that accepts you, but I am reasonably confident I could score higher on the MCAT given I studied only for 1.5 months to get my original score. I know obviously a higher score isn't guaranteed especially given the difficulty of the test, but if I were to get a significantly higher score (maybe 520+), and be able to go to a school I'm happier about, what precisely would make that plan such a bad idea? I feel like going to a T20 school would make my life in medical school significantly better as well (no internal ranking, no AOA, better research opportunities and more prestige for the match given P/F step 1). I would also then be able to apply with my partner and start school at the same time. Do schools blacklist you if they've seen you've been accepted previously?

I'm genuinely curious so I apologize if anything I've said has been offensive.

PLS DO NOT REAPPLY
Also applying as an ORM (esp with no gap year) definitely doesn’t help, so all things considered, you should be extremely proud with your results. Congrats future doctor!!🥳

 

[deleted1118591]

Dude, it's not just a matter of it being a bad idea to reapply. You would essentially be blacklisted for turning down an acceptance.
I don't want to rub salt in the wound, but no one is entitled to a T20 acceptance. No one is entitled to an acceptance, period. The % of people who are "T20 material" who don't make it into T20s is probably many times higher than those who do. There's a certain element of luck to this process as well, which is unfair but unfortunately the way life works. But that's all the more reason to realize that you didn't do anything wrong. (And that's also all the more reason for those of us who got into T20s to stay humble. Who knows, we might not have gotten those As if our interviewer was in a bad mood that day.)

Also, you mentioned your As are in the "T30-55 range," so I'm assuming at least one of them is closer to the 30. Sure, a school like Harvard is probably going to open more doors prestige-wise than a school ranked #30, but I honestly think the difference between a #20 and a #30 ranked school is going to end up being pretty negligible in terms of opportunities. Especially since any ranking system is going to be subjective and unreliable.

I'm asking out of curiosity and not to be rude, but is this your first time failing to achieve something significant that you really really wanted? (Not that having 3 As is a "failure" in any sense of the word.) We would all obviously rather get what we want, but failure and disappointment are going to happen to you in some shape or form during your medical career, and while I'm rooting for you to get into your dream school, I think it's important to learn how to cope with disappointment so you don't completely shut down when it happens to you later down the line.
I could be totally misjudging, but wanting to reapply with 3 As reads as either entitlement or being inexperienced with disappointment to me, and I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[stay.hydrated]

What MCAT score would I have needed for it to not hold me back?

I got an HMS interview on 10/5, a few days after submitting my secondaries (9/27)! That was my first interview invite which gave me the motivation to submit secondaries for a few other T10 schools that i decided not to submit a week prior. I almost didn’t submit to the other T10 schools because I thought my MCAT was too low (518).

I believe my secondaries had a few unique attention grabbers because most of my open-file interviewers consistently asked about them. Of the 14 IIs I felt like I could predict the outcome based on how I felt afterwards. I wasn’t very confident with a few interviews that ended up being waitlist (Stanford, Brown, Georgetown, JABSOM). My only post-II rejections were from interviews I thought went absolutely amazing (Harvard, Columbia).

I believe most of these school truly have a “wholistic” application review process, so don’t let your MCAT score hold you back!

I got an A from Yale, UCLA, UCSD, & UVA all OOS with a CARS score of 125 (I was actually really surprised/grateful for that 125 bc I’ve NEVER scored above 124 on CARS during FLEs).

I AM PROOF THAT YOU CAN GET INTO A T10 school with a 125 IN CARS!

 

[i-doctor]

I agree with everyone else. If you retake the MCAT and reapply to Med school next year, you most likely won’t get in and you’ll never be a doctor.
If you really want to potentially attend med school at the same time as your partner, you could accept a position and ask the medical school for a one-year deferment. But usually they need a compelling story to grant that.

 

[wysdoc]

Dude, it's not just a matter of it being a bad idea to reapply. You would essentially be blacklisted for turning down an acceptance.
I don't want to rub salt in the wound, but no one is entitled to a T20 acceptance. No one is entitled to an acceptance, period. The % of people who are "T20 material" who don't make it into T20s is probably many times higher than those who do. There's a certain element of luck to this process as well, which is unfair but unfortunately the way life works. But that's all the more reason to realize that you didn't do anything wrong. (And that's also all the more reason for those of us who got into T20s to stay humble. Who knows, we might not have gotten those As if our interviewer was in a bad mood that day.)

Also, you mentioned your As are in the "T30-55 range," so I'm assuming at least one of them is closer to the 30. Sure, a school like Harvard is probably going to open more doors prestige-wise than a school ranked #30, but I honestly think the difference between a #20 and a #30 ranked school is going to end up being pretty negligible in terms of opportunities. Especially since any ranking system is going to be subjective and unreliable.

I'm asking out of curiosity and not to be rude, but is this your first time failing to achieve something significant that you really really wanted? (Not that having 3 As is a "failure" in any sense of the word.) We would all obviously rather get what we want, but failure and disappointment are going to happen to you in some shape or form during your medical career, and while I'm rooting for you to get into your dream school, I think it's important to learn how to cope with disappointment so you don't completely shut down when it happens to you later down the line.
I could be totally misjudging, but wanting to reapply with 3 As reads as either entitlement or being inexperienced with disappointment to me, and I want to give you the benefit of the doubt.

what happened to you bowing out of the discussion?

 

[wysdoc]

I guess I'm curious for a couple of reasons

1. My partner is applying this upcoming cycle with almost identical stats, wondering where I went wrong to see if I can offer them any advice

2. If my interview skills are mediocre or poor, then it means I would need to work on them when it comes time for residency

3. I'm not sure if I'm reasonably likely to get off even one waitlist. Would those waitlist spots not just go to applicants with higher stats? I feel like I have seen a trend where applicants who get off one or multiple WL's usually are higher stat applicants.

4. Wondering why exactly it would be a terrible idea. I know that the common advice is to just go to a school that accepts you, but I am reasonably confident I could score higher on the MCAT given I studied only for 1.5 months to get my original score. I know obviously a higher score isn't guaranteed especially given the difficulty of the test, but if I were to get a significantly higher score (maybe 520+), and be able to go to a school I'm happier about, what precisely would make that plan such a bad idea? I feel like going to a T20 school would make my life in medical school significantly better as well (no internal ranking, no AOA, better research opportunities and more prestige for the match given P/F step 1). I would also then be able to apply with my partner and start school at the same time. Do schools blacklist you if they've seen you've been accepted previously?

I'm genuinely curious so I apologize if anything I've said has been offensive.

You have 3 acceptances, which means your interview skills are not terrible.
Please don't turn a successful year into a future of regrets by turning down your acceptances.
Choose the city you like best and start school. If one of your acceptances is in an area with several medical schools, your partner can apply to all the ones in that area next year to improve your chances of being near each other.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I guess I'm curious for a couple of reasons

1. My partner is applying this upcoming cycle with almost identical stats, wondering where I went wrong to see if I can offer them any advice

2. If my interview skills are mediocre or poor, then it means I would need to work on them when it comes time for residency

3. I'm not sure if I'm reasonably likely to get off even one waitlist. Would those waitlist spots not just go to applicants with higher stats? I feel like I have seen a trend where applicants who get off one or multiple WL's usually are higher stat applicants.

4. Wondering why exactly it would be a terrible idea. I know that the common advice is to just go to a school that accepts you, but I am reasonably confident I could score higher on the MCAT given I studied only for 1.5 months to get my original score. I know obviously a higher score isn't guaranteed especially given the difficulty of the test, but if I were to get a significantly higher score (maybe 520+), and be able to go to a school I'm happier about, what precisely would make that plan such a bad idea? I feel like going to a T20 school would make my life in medical school significantly better as well (no internal ranking, no AOA, better research opportunities and more prestige for the match given P/F step 1). I would also then be able to apply with my partner and start school at the same time. Do schools blacklist you if they've seen you've been accepted previously?

A song I wish could be easily adapted for medical school applicants (hey ChatGPT):


You'll appreciate this after you finish medical school.

 

[LizzyM]

Look, the T20 schools have a total of about first year 2,800 seats between them. According to Table A-23, last year there were over 11,000 applicants in your stat range (GPA>3.8, MCAT 514-517), and another 11,000+ with GPA>3.8 and MCAT 517+.

Of those 22,000+ applicants, 18,145 (79%) of them were accepted. somewhere. Given that 18,145 > 2,800, even if we assume that every seat at the T20 schools was filled with a person in these stat ranges, this means 85% of applicants with your numbers (or better) would not matriculate at a T20 school.

Your experience this cycle was not atypical. In fact, getting 3 acceptances from T30-55 schools was a pretty good yield.

The evil queen of numbers was coming here with the same observation. Fine minds and all that!

 

[Dwan]

As a current fellow, I see things like this at every point in the process, so get used to it - there are people who slip through the top programs for residency or fellowship despite great paper applications, or evidence of past success (top medical schools, colleges, jobs etc), and others who are only considered at one and make it in. Many times it's simply that there are too many stellar applicants and can come down to something as arbitrary as personal preferences of the admissions committee, the same reason you got an interview at HMS but not at top program X with a similar mission. For my fellowship program, we interview around 80-100 applicants (almost all from top IM programs) out of 5-600, yet only fall to around 20 on the rank list. Our PD has stated that almost all the applicants had great interviews, it is very hard to pick, and it is primarily the flags that stand out negatively. Applicants from our internal IM program are typically ranked highly because we know they are trained well clinically (top 10 in IM), yet a number of internals don't match here (e.g. ranked top 30 when we only fell to 20). I used to blame my interview skills as well for falling on my list in the past, but sometimes it just comes down to luck and you may end up being luckier at the next step! As long as there are no major flags, people who interviewed at top X places still end up at great programs with all options open! (as you did, even if the waitlists dont pan out)