Bavestry

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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot. I'm planning to reapply this cycle, and I think the reason I didn't receive any interviews is that I only had 80 clinical volunteer hours interpreting at a clinic. I should have about 200 hours from that same interpreting experience by the time I apply. I have also started a job as a CNA and hope to have around 400 hours doing that, and I have really enjoyed the work and think I'll be able to portray that well in my activities section.

I am just second-guessing whether there was something else wrong with my application. I was told that I am not supposed to reach out to schools that have sent me a rejection for feedback, is this true? Can I contact them or not?

From what I heard from my LORs, they all wrote very good things in their letters, so I'm pretty positive there weren't any red flags in those.

Here is a link to a previous post so you can see more about my application

What do you guys think was the reason I received no II?
 
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Dave1980

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I'm surprised you didn't get an II. You are a very average applicant with an average MCAT, average GPA, and probably below average clinical experience. Bad luck I think. I think next cycle you should get multiple IIs.
 
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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot. I'm planning to reapply this cycle, and I think the reason I didn't receive any interviews is that I only had 80 clinical volunteer hours interpreting at a clinic. I should have about 200 hours from that same interpreting experience by the time I apply. I have also started a job as a CNA and hope to have around 400 hours doing that, and I have really enjoyed the work and think I'll be able to portray that well in my activities section.

I am just second-guessing whether there was something else wrong with my application. I was told that I am not supposed to reach out to schools that have sent me a rejection for feedback, is this true? Can I contact them or not?

From what I heard from my LORs, they all wrote very good things in their letters, so I'm pretty positive there weren't any red flags in those.

Here is a link to a previous post so you can see more about my application

What do you guys think was the reason I received no II?
I think the problem is your poor ECs, you should aim for 200/200/50 (clinic/nonclinic/shad). Also (though it happens rarely) you might have poor LORs and IA that you are not aware of.
 
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I see a below average GPA (but with a strong trend) and limited clinical exposure with no primary care shadowing.

I don't know how adcoms view your mission trip. It is service, but i doubt it is service that exposes you to the underserved within in US medical system. If we take that out, your volunteer record is clinically weak and didn't take you out of your comfort zone.

Working as a CNA will fix much of this perception.

Finally, I don't see a cohesive story in your app. I wonder if this is true for your statement and essays. Without a story, it will be very hard for your average-ish application to draw the attention it needs. Craft your story (which means you need to understand your story first). Rewrite everything and have someone not personally involved review it.
 
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Angus Avagadro

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Wow, not a single II. I think your app needs to be reworked, with personal statement revisions. I don't think its your school list. Faha is quite knowledgeable. Maybe reach out to some other adcoms, like @Goro for additional thoughts. Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. I certainly understand your disappointment, and this makes me think there are fundamental flaws in your app, as your stats are not bad.. Have multiple people review you app and make it better. Good luck and best wishes!
 
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Leave out your mission trip. I'm from Utah, people outside of here have a perception of what Utahns are like. I understand how meaningful it is for you but trust me on this. Talk to doctors at the U and you'll see what I mean. Try to get more volunteering without the mission trip, Utah Aids Foundation, Planned Parenthood (although that may be against your wishes, I get that) and almost anything in Rose Park and with refugees there would be nice imo.
 
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KnightDoc

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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot. I'm planning to reapply this cycle, and I think the reason I didn't receive any interviews is that I only had 80 clinical volunteer hours interpreting at a clinic. I should have about 200 hours from that same interpreting experience by the time I apply. I have also started a job as a CNA and hope to have around 400 hours doing that, and I have really enjoyed the work and think I'll be able to portray that well in my activities section.

I am just second-guessing whether there was something else wrong with my application. I was told that I am not supposed to reach out to schools that have sent me a rejection for feedback, is this true? Can I contact them or not?

From what I heard from my LORs, they all wrote very good things in their letters, so I'm pretty positive there weren't any red flags in those.

Here is a link to a previous post so you can see more about my application

What do you guys think was the reason I received no II?
This is TERRIBLE advice!!! You should absolutely reach out to every school and ask for feedback. Most will blow you off, but some schools are quite generous with their time. After all, how the hell are you supposed to improve if you are left guessing as the where the deficiencies are? Feedback, if any, won't be given until the cycle is over, but these offices do have a lull between late spring, when their classes are finalized, and mid summer, when they start reviewing apps for the next cycle. Good luck!!!
 
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Add DO schools to the list. Beggars can't be choosy, and you've already lost a year in attending salary.
This is basically golden advice for half of the reapplicants out there.
Unfortunately, some people are "MD or bust", or just have their heart set on a surgical subspecialty.
 
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This is basically golden advice for half of the reapplicants out there.
Unfortunately, some people are "MD or bust", or just have their heart set on a surgical subspecialty.
Yes, a family member wasted three years on MD or bust and ended up with DO at higher cost.
 
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I agree with @Goro, you should have DO schools on your list for your re-application. Your lack of ECs this cycle certainly did not help, though it seems that you have been addressing this during this application year. A red flag in your application would also certainly explain the 0 interview invites.

Feel free to send your personal statement and activity descriptions to me, and I can look it over some time this week. &Readover
 
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en_al_zo

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Leave out your mission trip. I'm from Utah, people outside of here have a perception of what Utahns are like. I understand how meaningful it is for you but trust me on this. Talk to doctors at the U and you'll see what I mean. Try to get more volunteering without the mission trip, Utah Aids Foundation, Planned Parenthood (although that may be against your wishes, I get that) and almost anything in Rose Park and with refugees there would be nice imo.
Funny you say that. I’m grateful to not have to reapply, but if I did, I would definitely not mention my mission again. I’ve learned it is actually not an aid, but entirely a hinderance.
 
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Funny you say that. I’m grateful to not have to reapply, but if I did, I would definitely not mention my mission again. I’ve learned it is actually not an aid, but entirely a hinderance.
Exactly. I'm not LDS myself but I like the community, they're a very kind people (at least in my personal experience). However, like I said, there's a negative perception outside of Utah and even within Utah as the social climate in our country shifts. Unfortunately, being heavily involved in these types of religious groups is associated with the opposite of being 'progressive' which is what many in the medical community are pushing for, especially in medical school admissions. I'm glad you are heading to a school though, congrats!
 
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gonnif

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Lets start from the top
cGPA and sGPA as calculated by AMCAS or AACOMAS:
  • sGPA: 3.53 cGPA: 3.55​
  • I graduated high school with my Associate's with a 2.52 sGPA and a 3.05 cGPA. Since then my sGPA has been a 4.0 every semester and cGPA has been 3.9. I don't think this will negatively impact my chances but let me know what you think.​
Of course this hurt your chances. I presume if you got an AA in HS, you spent only two years in college and then applied. While you upward trend is good, an overall GPA even in HS AA of 2.5 will hurt. This already makes you an average candidate
MCAT score(s) and breakdown: 512 (128/128/129/127)
State of residence or country of citizenship (if non-US): Utah
Ethnicity and/or race: White, male
good MCAT but not outstanding
Clinical experience (volunteer and non-volunteer):
  • From August 2019-present I have about 80 hours of English-Spanish translating experience at a free clinic in my city that serves the uninsured. I know this is not a lot, how much of a problem will this be?
Research experience and productivity: 120 hours research with the anthropology department

Shadowing experience and specialties represented: 28 hours shadowing plastic surgeon, pathologist, urologist. Also not a lot. I had three more lined up until COVID ruined that.
not alot of clinical, not alot of research, and shadowing was so-so, You shadowed a plastics and a path guy but not any FP/IM?
Non-clinical volunteering:
  • From 2015-2017 I served a mission for my church in El Salvador. This consisted of going around all day every day teaching people about Jesus Christ and trying to help and serve them in any way, from chopping down trees and firewood to helping them overcome alcohol and drug abuse.
  • For six months I volunteered as an English as a second language tutor at a school for adult education and this totaled to about 40 hours.
  • From 2019-2020 I volunteered as a tutor at a government-subsidized apartment building where the majority of people are refugees. This time was spent either reading to young children to help them with their english, and tutoring some older members of the community in english. 60 hours
Other extracurricular activities (including athletics, military service, gap year activities, leadership, teaching, etc)
  • I TAd for two biology courses for a few hundred hours.
  • I am a piano performance major. I'm not sure how much this will really matter to admissions committees, but I feel it has given me a different perspective during my studies so far.
Any suggestions on the school list would be helpful. So far I've just been picking based on GPA and MCAT. With a 512, what range of median MCAT scores (+/- what from my score) should I be applying to? Hofstra has a median of 517 so I think it may be a long shot.
Tutoring of any kind is at best a secondary EC. I expect any reasonably intelligent premed to be able to tutor.
TA is the same
Piano performance matters more than the rest to me as musican understand the discipline and practice it takes to become proficient

You are overall at best an average candidate and leans weak Your ECs are so, your academic record is improved but still worrisome, It doesnt surprise me at all that you didnt get any interviews. And the last thing you need to do is reapply right away without major improvements to EC. Take a gap year
 
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en_al_zo

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Lets start from the top

Of course this hurt your chances. I presume if you got an AA in HS, you spent only years in college and then applied. While you upward trend is good, an overall GPA even in HS AA of 2.5 will hurt. This already makes you an average candidate

good MCAT but not outstanding

not alot of clinical, not alot of research, and shadowing was so-so, You shadowed a plastics and a path guy but not any FP/IM?

Tutoring of any kind is at best a secondary EC. I expect any reasonably intelligent premed to be able to tutor.
TA is the same
Piano performance matters more than the rest to me as musican understand the discipline and practice it takes to become proficient

You are overall at best an average candidate and leans weak Your ECs are so, your academic record is improved but still worrisome, It doesnt surprise me at all that you didnt get any interviews. And the last thing you need to do is reapply right away without major improvements to EC. Take a gap year
Or go DO
 

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I don’t think this person’s minimalist ECs and lack of primary care shadowing would tell a story that would satisfy DO school mission statements, considering that around 50% of us go into primary care. The MCAT is above average but that’s the only strong point on this app for a DO candidate. Even the GPA is just average for a DO student.
 
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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot. I'm planning to reapply this cycle, and I think the reason I didn't receive any interviews is that I only had 80 clinical volunteer hours interpreting at a clinic. I should have about 200 hours from that same interpreting experience by the time I apply. I have also started a job as a CNA and hope to have around 400 hours doing that, and I have really enjoyed the work and think I'll be able to portray that well in my activities section.

I am just second-guessing whether there was something else wrong with my application. I was told that I am not supposed to reach out to schools that have sent me a rejection for feedback, is this true? Can I contact them or not?

From what I heard from my LORs, they all wrote very good things in their letters, so I'm pretty positive there weren't any red flags in those.

Here is a link to a previous post so you can see more about my application

What do you guys think was the reason I received no II?
This has been a really tough cycle.

There are two overriding reasons for rejection:

1) You were not competitive at your target programs.
2) You failed to present your qualifications effectively.

As you noted, your lack of clinical exposure probably hurt you. The fact that you have much more this time around should really help. In addition apply to some programs (or more programs) where your numbers are above average in MSAR and also consider DO schools.

Also, you don't want to submit the same application as last year. Show a year of growth and maturation. Focus on what you learned through the work you've been doing throughout your primary and secondaries (especially at programs where you previously applied). You may keep most of your activities, but can you present them more effectively -- highlighting your impact and not just your responsibilities, bringing out challenges and interpersonal skills?
 
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Med Ed

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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot.
Your application got tossed because your experiences are really weak compared to the competition. A work week is 40 hours, so let's show the major experiences you accumulated over 4 years (208 weeks) in a slightly different way:
  • 3 weeks research (1.4%)
  • 2.5 weeks tutoring (1.2%)
  • 2 weeks English-Spanish translating (1.0%)
  • <1 week shadowing (0.3%)
That's not going to cut it. You are also in a difficult position because Utah is a net exporter of applicants who are mostly white, mostly male, mostly went to BYU, mostly went on missions, and mostly have interchangeable experiences and personal statements. I happen to like them when we get them, because they are mostly smart and hard working students (they mostly want to match into things like derm and ortho).

Your MCAT is solid, your GPA is what it is (thankfully you have a strong upward trend). You need to expand your experiences significantly in a way that shows a cohesive narrative about why you want to go to medical school. Do that and you'll start getting interviews.
 
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LaughingGas10

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Another Texas school opening lol. Their new industry is medical education.

Texas is surprisingly not the easiest state for in state residents. Texas is not such a easy state as people believe to be, just because they have the TMDSAS.

West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico, New Mexico, Arkansas are probably the easiest for In state residents.

Arizona, Utah, Florida, oregon, california are some of the toughest states.


MCATGPAMatriculantsApplicantsChance of matriculating
Kentucky508.53.7736061359
West Virginia506.43.7414024757
Vermont512.43.75610454
Rhode Island514.23.775811750
Indiana512.23.8137976550
South Dakota509.43.748016449
Massachusetts514.53.72624129848
Puerto Rico4993.6230463648
Arkansas507.53.7317837448
New Mexico506.13.7412626548
New York512.73.691674353047
New Hampshire514.23.725511747
Nebraska511.53.7814530947
Pennsylvania513.13.74767164247
Ohio511.43.75825179446
Connecticut514.13.7228261546
Alabama508.83.7726557946
District of Columbia511.83.554710346
Montana508.13.745712645
New Jersey513.13.72873193445
Wisconsin512.13.7637382745
South Carolina509.23.7432672445
Maryland512.53.69528117345
Louisiana507.83.7139186945
Alaska509.43.68419543
Missouri511.43.833277143
Kansas510.43.7822252442
Oklahoma508.93.7918744642
Minnesota511.63.7441899742
California513.63.692603622842
Illinois511.63.71934224142
Wyoming511.33.78297041
Tennessee510.23.7235585741
Maine512.23.7419941
Michigan511.13.73811197441
Nevada510.13.7114034141
NATIONWIDE511.53.73218695337141
North Carolina5123.68537132241
Mississippi503.83.7718545740
Georgia5103.71654161640
Washington512.43.69448113539
Virginia512.93.68541140738
Hawaii511.53.7410126538
Delaware512.73.723810138
Idaho510.13.787520137
Oregon512.63.7420557236
Colorado512.93.7530084536
Texas511.43.771720489535
Iowa512.43.8112836835
North Dakota507.13.85315534
Florida510.73.741189349334
Utah513.43.7921263234
Arizona511.13.7730091633
 
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Texas is surprisingly not the easiest state for in state residents. Texas is not such a easy state as people believe to be, just because they have the TMDSAS.

West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico, New Mexico are probably the easiest for In state residents.

Arizona, Utah, Florida, oregon are some of the toughest states.
I never said anything about Texas being an easy state. They're just pumping out new schools more often than some other states of their size.

I argue Ohio is an easy state for premeds if you have the stats and enough baseline ECs (we're a net importer since it's the urban Midwest). Around 13% - 17% IS of the pool gets accepted at each state school.
 

gyngyn

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Texas is surprisingly not the easiest state for in state residents. Texas is not such a easy state as people believe to be, just because they have the TMDSAS.

West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico, New Mexico are probably the easiest for In state residents.

Arizona, Utah, Florida, oregon are some of the toughest states.


MCATGPAMatriculantsApplicantsChance of matriculating
Kentucky508.53.7736061359
West Virginia506.43.7414024757
Vermont512.43.75610454
Rhode Island514.23.775811750
Indiana512.23.8137976550
South Dakota509.43.748016449
Massachusetts514.53.72624129848
Puerto Rico4993.6230463648
Arkansas507.53.7317837448
New Mexico506.13.7412626548
New York512.73.691674353047
New Hampshire514.23.725511747
Nebraska511.53.7814530947
Pennsylvania513.13.74767164247
Ohio511.43.75825179446
Connecticut514.13.7228261546
Alabama508.83.7726557946
District of Columbia511.83.554710346
Montana508.13.745712645
New Jersey513.13.72873193445
Wisconsin512.13.7637382745
South Carolina509.23.7432672445
Maryland512.53.69528117345
Louisiana507.83.7139186945
Alaska509.43.68419543
Missouri511.43.833277143
Kansas510.43.7822252442
Oklahoma508.93.7918744642
Minnesota511.63.7441899742
California513.63.692603622842
Illinois511.63.71934224142
Wyoming511.33.78297041
Tennessee510.23.7235585741
Maine512.23.7419941
Michigan511.13.73811197441
Nevada510.13.7114034141
NATIONWIDE511.53.73218695337141
North Carolina5123.68537132241
Mississippi503.83.7718545740
Georgia5103.71654161640
Washington512.43.69448113539
Virginia512.93.68541140738
Hawaii511.53.7410126538
Delaware512.73.723810138
Idaho510.13.787520137
Oregon512.63.7420557236
Colorado512.93.7530084536
Texas511.43.771720489535
Iowa512.43.8112836835
North Dakota507.13.85315534
Florida510.73.741189349334
Utah513.43.7921263234
Arizona511.13.7730091633
These are the percentages for matriculating anywhere. CA exports the majority of our excellent students to other states.
 
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LaughingGas10

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I never said anything about Texas being an easy state. They're just pumping out new schools more often than some other states of their size.

I argue Ohio is an easy state for premeds if you have the stats and enough baseline ECs (we're a net importer since it's the urban Midwest). Around 13% - 17% IS of the pool gets accepted at each state school.

I would have also thought that Ohio would have a better average than the national pool, with the number of MD schools in Ohio. However, based on this table, the student matriculation appears to be right at the national average in terms of stats.
 
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I agree, I would have also thought that Ohio would have a better average than the national pool, with the number of MD schools in Ohio. However, based on this table, the student matriculation appears to be right at the national average in terms of stats.
I mean...we still have a decent sized premed population. I think OSU is very high on the premed export list and places like Cincy and Case also make appearances down the sheet. The situation isn't bad to the point of UCLA -> CA or UF -> FL.
 

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These are the percentages for matriculating anywhere. CA exports the majority of our excellent students to other states.

You are absolutely correct.

In california only about 43% of the matriculating students (1111 out of 2603) stay in state , and 57% of them match out of state. This might be the worst percentage in the country, with the national average being around 65%.

Below are the numbers for some of the other states for In state versus exporting of matriculants

In Texas it is about 88% (1518/1720) staying in state, mainly because of TMDSAS. Ohio is 71%.

Some of the other states I quoted as being easy in state New Mexico 80%, West Virginia 92%, Puerto Rico 98%, Kentucky 73%.

Some of the tougher states I quoted as being tough for In State are similar to california and have to export their undergraduates out of state. Percentage matriculating in state for Arizona 49%, Florida 57%, Oregon 57%.
 
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Yeah, frankly I think Texas is a pretty sweet deal. Vast majority of spots are reserved for in-state students, the average MCAT is below that of students from many other states, and if you do get in it's dirt cheap. A large number of CA students are more qualified than students accepted at Texas schools, yet have virtually no shot at attending Texas schools save for Baylor and TCU. The UC system in CA is an enormous source of highly qualified medical school applicants with too few chairs in CA to accommodate more than a small fraction of them.
 
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Whoot whoot whoot for new DPM school tho
the DPM forum is absolutely livid over the new Texas school. The same podiatrist dean opening this school, also opened Western DPM (without creating adequate residency spots), which caused a residency crisis for several years.

It's such a niche field that just one new school can cause an impact.
 
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This cycle I applied to 23 MD schools and I did not receive a single II. I feel pretty defeated because I feel like I put in a lot of work over the past four years and it didn't mean a lot. I'm planning to reapply this cycle, and I think the reason I didn't receive any interviews is that I only had 80 clinical volunteer hours interpreting at a clinic. I should have about 200 hours from that same interpreting experience by the time I apply. I have also started a job as a CNA and hope to have around 400 hours doing that, and I have really enjoyed the work and think I'll be able to portray that well in my activities section.

I am just second-guessing whether there was something else wrong with my application. I was told that I am not supposed to reach out to schools that have sent me a rejection for feedback, is this true? Can I contact them or not?

From what I heard from my LORs, they all wrote very good things in their letters, so I'm pretty positive there weren't any red flags in those.

Here is a link to a previous post so you can see more about my application

What do you guys think was the reason I received no II?
I'm surprised you didn't get any II. I would apply broadly and have someone look over your personal statement and essays. When I reapplied, I completely changed my personal statement after getting advice from some friends who were already in medical school. Your lack of clinical hours will also limit your chances for interviews, so your CNA job should help with that. And absolutely reach out to schools that you got a rejection from for feedback. Worse case scenario they'll say they don't review applications, but if they do, you will be able to get targeted feedback about how to improve your application and your chances of getting in. Don't be discouraged by the results from this cycle! Something my prehealth advisor told me was that the end of the day it doesn't matter if you were a doctor for 50 years or for 49 years. Take the time to build a strong application and foundation. Good luck!
 
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