WHERE TO APPLY in IRELAND

[uclakid]

Hey, I don't know which schools to apply to in Ireland. I have a bunch of friends in RCSI, so I'm definitely applying there. But, I should apply to more. Which ones are good for people coming from USA? I am graduating from college June 2005, 27P mcat, 3.6 science gpa, 3.6 overall. I want to come back to the US for residency (and of course to practice).

Thanks everyone!

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[Badkarma25]

all the schools are good. i go to ucd so i can't really make broad statements. what i do know is rcsi is a private school only for health sciences, and it's about 10000 euros more per year. whether you get more for that money is not for me to say. from what i've been told by people who go to rcsi, you get more spoonfeeding for the u.s. boards. other than that, i'd say they aren't any major differences. rcsi is a bit more techy i think with laptops being required or highly encouraged in lecture but i'm not sure if that's true or not. if you have any ucd specific questions, feel free!

 

[PaddyofNine]

all the schools are good. i go to ucd so i can't really make broad statements. what i do know is rcsi is a private school only for health sciences, and it's about 10000 euros more per year. whether you get more for that money is not for me to say. from what i've been told by people who go to rcsi, you get more spoonfeeding for the u.s. boards. other than that, i'd say they aren't any major differences. rcsi is a bit more techy i think with laptops being required or highly encouraged in lecture but i'm not sure if that's true or not. if you have any ucd specific questions, feel free!

RCSI give out iBooks to every first year student!

 

[Badkarma25]

well they don't GIVE them away...i guess that's one of the things that you get for your extra 10000 euro in tuition...so it's something you need to decide the value of...i can get a pretty damn nice laptop for less than 10000 euro!

 

[Macgirl]

A little off topic, but does anyone know why Galway doesn't use Atlantic Bridge for their applications

 

[PaddyofNine]

A little off topic, but does anyone know why Galway doesn't use Atlantic Bridge for their applications

Not sure, but I used to go to college in Galway and they definitely had North Americans in the Medicine Class there. You should contact them directly: Galway's a great city, and I'd reccomend it to anyone!

well they don't GIVE them away...i guess that's one of the things that you get for your extra 10000 euro in tuition

I suppose. All first years entering the school are provided with a laptop, whether you're a fee-paying North American student or a regular Irish kid straight out of high school.

 

[deleted21609]

uclakid: Going to med school abroad is a big mistake unless you can't get in at home. Your stats aren't record setting, but you'd probably get in somewhere. I hope (for your sake) that your applying at home too. It's nothing against the Irish schools, but the fact is- you'll be at a disadvantage if you go there (or anywhere overseas) when applying for residency. It's better than going to law school for example, but shouldn't be a top choice.

everyone else: Flame me if you like, but that's good advice & true.

 

[leorl]

I don't think I made a big mistake. I made the best decision I have in my entire life. Sure, might be slightly disadvantaged going home, but you know, I don't really care. I'll still be doing what I want to do and practicing. This experience means a lot more to me than exact job security. Sorry that you made the wrong decision for your life.

 

[Sage880]

I'm with Leorl. I've read some of your posts student.ie and you seem really down on coming to Ireland to med school. I think you're more worried about your future then you should be. Talking to the Canadians who graduated last year made me think I'll be fine. Whether they're working in Canada, Ireland, or the US they seem happy and they all seemed to end up where they wanted to go. I even just had a meeting with a doctor here who's supposed to be my mentor and nothing she told me made me think the future wasn't bright.

If you really hate med school in Ireland that much have you thought about re-applying in America? It's not too late and if it will put your fears to rest it might be something worth thinking about.

 

[deleted21609]

Well anyway, uclakid can see that there are a variety of opinions on the topic. Most (but not all) of my friends in Ireland agreed with me on this.

Anyway, I hope you other guys continue to think you made the right decision when it comes time for you to match. I doubt it will be the case, but I really hope it is.

I've finished actually, and I'm doing very well for myself so far in the US. I know a lot of people who got screwed though. I had a lot of great times in Ireland, but despite that I think going was probably the biggest mistake I ever made. THat's why I continue to post. I was misinformed and given the rosy picture that you seem to be getting, and I've found that for most people it doesn't work out so great. You mosty hear the success stories (of which I'm one (I think anyway )), but applicants need to know the other side too. That's why I continue to post. In my experience, the success stories are in the minority.

Hey, at least I say good things about Ireland if there's and Ireland vs. Carribean question.

 

[Arb]

It's always good to hear both sides. Where are you now? I take it you are doing an internal medicine residency?

 

[mfcus]

Well anyway, uclakid can see that there are a variety of opinions on the topic. Most (but not all) of my friends in Ireland agreed with me on this.

Anyway, I hope you other guys continue to think you made the right decision when it comes time for you to match. I doubt it will be the case, but I really hope it is.

I've finished actually, and I'm doing very well for myself so far in the US. I know a lot of people who got screwed though. I had a lot of great times in Ireland, but despite that I think going was probably the biggest mistake I ever made. THat's why I continue to post. I was misinformed and given the rosy picture that you seem to be getting, and I've found that for most people it doesn't work out so great. You mosty hear the success stories (of which I'm one (I think anyway )), but applicants need to know the other side too. That's why I continue to post. In my experience, the success stories are in the minority.

Hey, at least I say good things about Ireland if there's and Ireland vs. Carribean question.

What would you have done if your decision was to go to Ireland for meical school or DO school? and why?

 

[leorl]

I think student.ie is the one giving wrong impressions of experience in Ireland. Sure, there may be some of those. But everyone I know of are very happily practicing in the US or Canada, and some chose to remain in Ireland or go to the UK. No one I know of personally have had any sort of problems returning to the US, and all did fairly well on the USMLE. Keep in mind that all posts from people are generalizations...it would be helpful if student.ie could tell one or two stories specifically about people having problems and what sort of problems there were.

 

[uclakid]

So, I'm going to apply anyway. I just don't know WHERE to apply. Should I apply to all 5 schools? Which ones are best for getting people back to the USA?

thanks!

 

[leorl]

There's no best. They're all of the same standard. There's a lot of UCD, Trinity and RCSI folks in the US, and to a lesser degree UCC, but it's just as good and I think its profile, along with the rest of the irish schools, is increasing in the US. I don't know anything about NUIG, but NUIG has a great sports complex . So, your choice is pretty much down to location and size of population.

UCD, TCD and RCSI are in Dublin with the latter two being in Dublin city center. Dublin's the biggest city in Ireland, but it's small enough that you might run into someone you know on the street. Cork is a smaller city, with a more relaxed atmosphere and the people just are so nice. As soon as you get out of Dublin, everything relaxes a bit. Dublin has the hustle and bustle of a big city.

 

[deleted21609]

it would be helpful if student.ie could tell one or two stories specifically about people having problems and what sort of problems there were.

I kind of feel like they're not my stories to tell. Putting other people's information on the internet would be wrong I think.

"What would you have done if your decision was to go to Ireland for medical school or DO school? and why?"

That's more difficult. I never applied to DO school and I don't know all that much about it. Both a good choice for a future in primary care. Both less good for other routes. I guess I'd go DO, since I didn't care for Ireland much. You do basically the same thing everynight- go to a pub and listen to Robbie Williams, ABBA, and the Pretenders then go to a club and listen to the same garbage. -but at least the women are unattractive

"I take it you are doing an internal medicine residency?"

Nope.

"Should I apply to all 5 schools?"

If you're going to apply, then you might as well apply everywhere. I'd choose Trinity though -just because it's the most famous not because I have any reason to believe it's better than the others. I met a UCD grad pediatrician at the hospital here who seemed good at what she does.
Getting back to the US is going to depend more on your USMLE and good elective experiences than on which school you go to in Ireland. The women will be equally unattractive wherever you go.

 

[leorl]

I kind of feel like they're not my stories to tell. Putting other people's information on the internet would be wrong I think.
The women will be equally unattractive wherever you go.

Gee, no wonder you didn't have fun with that kind of attitude. As an aside, I personally think Irish women can be gorgeous and lovely, with good personalities to boot and find a comment like that very chauvinistic and insulting. Anyway, to each his own. As everyone knows, life is what you make of it. If you go clubbing every night, etc. and don't involve yourself in anything apart from medicine, don't take advantage of the awesome extracurriculars and sports that are available, you're going to get bored and jaded.

Re: personal stories - well, don't tell every exact detail of what happened to that person, or who that person(s) were. Make it anecdotal, like how we as doctors discuss patient cases without revealing identity. It would really help if you said "I know of a person who had difficulty as an Irish IMG because say...residency directors were discriminatory (just an example)..." or something like that. In that way, you aren't betraying a person's confidence, but you're helping future Irish IMGs know the full story because from these boards and my relationships with people here, all I've heard are positive things and the only negatives have come from you. If you could expound, I'm sure we'd really appreciate it and it would help validate your claims too.

 

[uclakid]

OK, so I'm in my last year in college now. I've sent in my transcripts and already applied to RCSI and UCD. How high do I need to maintain my grades rest of this last year to keep an acceptance (if I get one).

Thanks.

 

[leorl]

I don't think they really check... but don't completely slide. Even as a personal pride issue, do as well as you can...

 

[deleted21609]

You're really there as a form of supplemental funding for Irish medical students. You spend a lot more on tuition than they do on your training. It's unlikely that they'll want to give up your tuition once you've been accepted unless they know they have a backup. That said, I wouldn't push it. Aim to maintain your average whatever that might be.


I'm not complaining about the tuition or anything. We accepted it, so I don't think anyone can complain unless there lecturers don't show up or consistently show up 25 minutes late for 1 hour lectures or stuff like that. Hey wait! That's exactly what happened. Ah well.

 

[PaddyofNine]

I'm not complaining about the tuition or anything. We accepted it, so I don't think anyone can complain unless there lecturers don't show up or consistently show up 25 minutes late for 1 hour lectures or stuff like that. Hey wait! That's exactly what happened. Ah well.

Man, you must be tired, student.ie: I mean, it can't be easy, carrying that chip on your shoulder around all the time!

I'm not getting into a slanging match, but dude! Relax! Everyone I've been talking to, and read comments from here, seems to be having a great time so far. Except for your ray of sunshine, that is!

As for the lecturers, I think our lecturer (UCD) didn't show up once, due to a scheduling error. Granted, that's only once in three months, but so far so good right!

Sometimes this forum seems like a huge duel, with Leorl and the like on the light side, and Student.ie on the dark!

 

[deleted21609]

Sometimes this forum seems like a huge duel, with Leorl and the like on the light side, and Student.ie on the dark!

That's pretty funny. I guess it IS kind of like a duel. A more appropriate metaphor in my mind would be Leorl & co are wolves trying to lure the unsuspecting innocent into their lair saying, "it's so warm and cozy and wonderful in here." I'm the little bird outside warning, "I've seen other happy innocents lured in before and they come out damaged if they come out at all!- dun dun dunnnnn.

Of course the pro-Ireland crew don't actually wish anyone any harm. They actually believe what they're selling, so the metaphor doesn't hold up. They are luring people into a situation that is far worse than the one being presented though. (What do they really know anyway? they're PRE-CLINICAL!) Who's really the dark? I guess it seems like it's me since I present such a negative view. If that's the truth though (which it is), then I'm the good guy.

I think it's fair to say that the reality is somewhere in the middle.
Somewhere toward my side of the middle. (couldn't resist)

 

[GaryM]

Prospective students such as myself like to hear both sides of the story. After all, this is a HUGE decision!!!
I think student.ie is doing as all a service by stating his standpoint. It allows us to stay objective.

 

[Badkarma25]

I feel it's time for me to add my 2 cents into this discussion of who is more right or wrong about the whole Ireland med school thing. I've been reading all these posts and I kind of have a feel for what's going on. Here are my thoughts after nearly a year and a half in Dublin...

First of all, we all did CHOOSE to come here, but how the word choice is a bit of a misnomer when you have no alternative to choose from. That was the case for me personally anyway. But I can say that each and every North American student I know, and this would be approximately 40 people, in various years of medicine at UCD and Trinity, all came here because they couldn't get into medicine in North America, not because they wanted to be in Ireland.

So I think we all owe Ireland a debt of gratitude; I know I do because it is allowing me to pursue my dream. But this awareness does not make me feel as though I can excuse the ridiculousness that I face on a daily basis. This is a very inefficient and frustrating place to live, and I only look forward to the time when I can go home. I'm not trying to paint it with a negative brush, but I think it's important to balance Leorl's rosy view of things, which I'm sure for her is completely true and accurate.

You could say I'm intolerant but I really don't believe that to be the case. We live in a world dominated by political correctness so it's improper for me to say that I'm fed up with ineffiency or that doing things differently is bad. Doing things differently isn't always bad, but when getting anything done takes you twice as long as it used to, different is not good.

With regard to making friends and Irish people, my experience has been largely negative. I'm a very friendly outgoing person, but all of the Irish people I've met, with VERY few exceptions, are insular and really want very little to do with outsiders. That is not because of anything thats wrong with me, nor is it something I feel I need to correct by working hard or being friendly. I've tried and I'm content with the relationships I have.

Overall my experience has been good and I am enjoying myself here, but I think its important to be honest because people should come here with their eyes fully open and I know a lot of people rely on this board for frank accounts of other people's experiences.

 

[Arb]

Is the inefficiency in reference to the school administration or everyday life in general? Is there visible improvement on the way things are being handled or do they just not care? Most importantly though is the quality of education. Anything is bearable if you feel that you will acquire the necessary training to become a great doctor.

 

[Badkarma25]

The inefficiency and incompetence I'm referring to is related to both the school administration and everyday life. For example, at school, they CANNOT figure out when exam dates are. It's November 13th and they still don't know for sure when our december exam dates are, and if you go into the faculty office they throw something like this at you "oh just don't book a plane ticket until dec 23, you'll be done by then". that's when the office closes for christmas. they just don't care becuase it doesn't affect them, and our class reps are totally useless because they are both irish and only have a car ride home for christmas. So many north americans ran for class rep positions but whoever was in charge decided that the 'election' would simply be a group of us standing at the front of the class silently so they could see who the candidates were. Then we got voted on. Made no sense.

As far as everyday life, going to the A&E to get treated and pay 90 euro when the sign on the triage window says 40 for students. You point out that you're a student but the person says no, you're not a resident of the EEC. You point out that you're a student studying medicine for 5 years here, but they still charge you 90. So you call the hospital the next day and get told, SHOCKINGLY, that the fool at triage made a mistake, so you have to trek out to campus to get a letter saying that you are a student,and then take it to the hospital where they tell you they'll issue you a refund cheque. After a few weeks of no cheque coming you call and find out they refunded your credit card instead. No one does what they say they will do, and if something does get done, it gets done in the exact opposite way of what you're told.

I have many more stories like this. I do agree that anything is bearable and I'm not upset that I'm here because I'm still having a good time and glad i'm getting the opportunity to study medicine, but it really burns me when I hear people say that this is a fantastic place where the people are friendly and all that. I think people who say this are living in a dream world and think that if they believe something strongly enough it will come true. Not so.

Is the inefficiency in reference to the school administration or everyday life in general? Is there visible improvement on the way things are being handled or do they just not care? Most importantly though is the quality of education. Anything is bearable if you feel that you will acquire the necessary training to become a great doctor.

 

[Badkarma25]

Forgot to address this part of Arb's post...I'm not worried about the quality of education, but I am very annoyed at how much of my school work involves filling in gaps. Particularly this year, my class hears at least once during every lecture "We used to take 3 weeks to teach this but now we only have one time for one lecture on it. You can read the rest on your own". What we would all like to know is, what the hell are they using the time for if they are condensing things that much? I don't want to turn this into a debate on systems based curricula but our curriculum is really in a state of flux and they do not have it well organized. I think systems based learning is good in theory but sucks in practice. I'm not worried about how well I'll do on the standardized tests because I know I'm going to put in the time on my own to study, but a bit more organization would be nice.

 

[PaddyofNine]

...and our class reps are totally useless because they are both irish and only have a car ride home for christmas. So many north americans ran for class rep positions but whoever was in charge decided that the 'election' would simply be a group of us standing at the front of the class silently so they could see who the candidates were. Then we got voted on. Made no sense.

That sucks man, but maybe you should speak to someone in MedSoc or whatever about organising a North American class rep? I'm sure there'd be no problem if you, or indeed any of the NA's in your class, feel you're being misrepresented!

As for our class, we've got three class reps, one of whom is a girl from Canada. Our Christmas exam dates were confirmed two weeks ago, and we're (or at least, I can speak for myself) plenty mindful of what you guys have to go through in terms of travel arrangements, etc.

From what I hear, and see at meetings, both MedSoc and the Student/Staff Committee in the Terrace are very open to change - have you spoken to anyone about your concerns?

And I totally agree that having both sides of a debate going on is far more preferential to presenting just one side! The whole point of the boards is discussion, right!

 

[person2004]

What I loved was the time it took 7 weeks to get an MCQ graded because the only person who knew how to use the scantron grading machine was out of town. Or how most of the other times it took 5 weeks to get MCQs graded for no apparent reason.

There's one positive side to their lack of planning. I had a friend who didn't pay his tuition until like March and nobody notice or cared. My friends and I also just didn't show up for our required BCG since we didn't want to get CXRs for the rest of our lives from the resulting positive PPD, and no one ever noticed. On the whole, the lack of organization is pretty annoying though.

The failure to set exam dates at an even remotely reasonable time that Badkarma25 mentioned has been making me crazy for years. It's not just the flight-related inconvenience. It also affects your studying. I mean, I don't know about you but if I have an exam on the 8th and another on the 20th, I'd rather be studying for the first exam on the 1st-7th and for the second exam from the 9th to 19th. They say, "You should be learning everything all the time, so the exam date shouldn't matter", but that's a huge load of 'junk'.

I wouldn't decide for or against going to Ireland based on these sorts of things, but hopefully if you hear about them ahead of time, they won't bother you as much.


The commonly held belief that the Irish are so nice is both very true and very false. Many of them are nice, especially but not only, if they depend on tourism to make a living. Many of them can be complete a holes too. They're not so different in that way from the people where I come from.

& about making friends with your Irish classmates: It's not all that common. I mean most of us were friendly toward each other and might hang out if we ran into each other at a bar, but they didn't call me and I didn't call them. I hung out with mostly other foreign students from the class and that was fine. I wasn't unusual for me to hang out with a group of people representing 5 continents. I thought that was kind of cool. We did have a lot of class parties where everyone was invited. It's not like we didn't interact positively with the Irish students, but it's also not as if we were great friends either as a whole.

 

[leorl]

Oh, I dunno. It does take effort...but some of my close friends are the Irish students in my class and yeah, we would hang out. Other americans in my class are closer to some of the Irish because sometimes I choose not to spend time with the class and instead with my sports buddies, who are also Irish. Irish are very nice, but it can be hard to actually get to break in and really know them on a truly personal level, if that makes any sense. But sure, after awhile, you do...just about personalities clicking and stuff.

It used to annoy me, the whole exam dates thing and the not finding out what rotation I'm gonna be in til the day before, etc. But my school has actually been pretty good about improving this aspect, which makes it easier for us to plan flights home. It also helps that others in our class (not just the Americans) nag the administration constantly until they give us an answer in a reasonable time, but still...it could really be improved and there are a few important unknowns that we're waiting to hear back on. You get used to it, it's not the end of the world. Makes life interesting anyway.

 

[PaddyofNine]

You get used to it, it's not the end of the world

That's my philosophy!

 

[Badkarma25]

i'd definitely agree that the inconveniences are not the end of the world, but i don't see how i'll ever get used to it. i find it very hard to get used to the idea of doing extra work for things for no other reason than stupidity and ineffiency. yes i have to deal with it and i don't complain about it on a daily basis (despite what you may think based on my posts here), but i'll never accept it the way things are done here as ok or sufficient. it just makes me REALLY appreciate going home at christmas and seeing how good things can be. so i guess there is something positive to come out of it; it makes me more appreciative of the times when things go the way they are supposed to.

 

[leorl]

Hmm, missed reading a few things... 1) I don't feel I'm exactly painting a rosy picture of things. I think it would be correct to say that others would see I'm having a great time here. 2) I am not "luring" people in, or trying to. Their choice is their own, and all I'm doing is trying to offer some reassurance. If you look at previous posts, I do highlight what a great time I'm having, etc. but I also point out some negatives. Obviously being in a foreign country in a different system, you have to expect to put more work into your happiness and expect that there will be bumps along the way. There's no point turning sour.

Obviously student.ie has had some negative experiences, but the picture he/she is presenting is that everyone should avoid coming here like the plague, which is simply not the case. He's the only one I've ever heard of who didn't like it here much...now I'm sure he's not the only one, but in my view there are a lot more positives than negatives. And the fact that he has not offered even one anecdotal story of a particular problem makes me inclined to think that the experiences he had were based more on a surly disposition than on something concrete. Trust me, for my own safety, I want to know what problems were encountered!

My experiences are quite different from BadKarma's as well (sorry about the whole triage thing). I went to A&E once where it was indeed 40 euro but I haven't paid a cent of it, never got an invoice. The past couple years, at least one of our class reps have been international, and now the student convenor for our whole health sciences faculty is Canadian.

Arb, the inefficiency here is concerning everything, pretty much - from grass roots stuff to governmental decisions. There's a saying here "Oh, that's so Irish," meaning...they do a bunch of paper shuffling and busybody work without accomplishing much of anything or having the finished product flop. And there are times that you want to scream "I COULD DO YOUR JOB BETTER THAN YOU COULD IN A DAY, YOU FOOL!" But you just roll with it. It's really easy to bitch and moan, but it's more productive to use your own thinking/resources and find decent solutions. It Does take time to get used to, but it's better to accept it than to fight it - as I said before, you get used to it. And the more you can go with the flow and find alternative means to accomplishing things quicker, the more sane you will be.

 

[leorl]

Regarding friendships: this is a paradox. The Irish are very friendly, but it can be really hard to actually get to KNOW them. Whereas we Americans are used to practically inviting someone to our house after having a good chat for 5 minutes, it doesn't work that way here. And remember, most of us are entering as direct entrants so that they've already formed their friends before we get there.

My situation could be different. I was here during JYA, and a lot of friends I made then were still at Trinity when I entered med school, so I came here knowing people and got to build on those friendships. I also got really involved both in class things and sports things, so that accelerated friendship-making, and I also have a very good class which gelled quickly. One of the reasons for this gelling is that as the north americans, collectively we made an effort not to impose ourselves and our experiences onto them (i.e. put aside any sort of gunnerish tendencies), and asked them frequently for their advice / ideas / if they wanted to study with us / etc. That plus the combination of our class being particularly receptive made us all very close, very quickly. I realize that this does not seem to be the norm in a lot of Irish classes, and all in my class are quite happy that it's worked this way, thanking our lucky stars. And even I don't interact with the rest of my class as much as I could. However, I've seen great classes actually destroyed by some north americans who come in, because our lifelong requirements to get into med school make us a lot more Type A than the Irish can take sometimes.

I guess it's partly luck. But you play a hand in your own relationships and the path your life takes.

 

[deleted21609]

Obviously student.ie has had some negative experiences, but the picture he/she is presenting is that everyone should avoid coming here like the plague, which is simply not the case. He's the only one I've ever heard of who didn't like it here much...now I'm sure he's not the only one, but in my view there are a lot more positives than negatives.

I had many negative and many positive experiences. I wouldn't say to avoid going there like the plague, but I think it is a mistake to go if there is ANY chance of getting in at home. For some people, going abroad may truly be the only option. In that case, going to school in Ireland may be the best choice. It beats the carribean anyway. People should have a realistic view of what they're getting into though. It's very unlikely that you'll ever enter a 'competitive' specialty as a foreign grad, so you shouldn't get your hopes up. It's also not as if everyone is going to be so nice. Irish aren't as bad as the French, but they are getting an anti-foreigner/ anti-American attitude these days (secondary to their ridiculously biased news organizations in my opinion, god forbid they consider 2 sides of any issue) At least this discussion has recently started to include both sides of this issue.

 

[PaddyofNine]

At least this discussion has recently started to include both sides of this issue.

That's one good thing to come out of it, at least!


Actually, out of curiosity, student.ie, Bad_Karma and leorl:

If asked could you guys pick out 3-5 things you like about studying here, and a similar number of things that make you want to bang your head off a wall until your nose bleeds ?

(In case you're wondering, a friend is thinking about applying here through the Atlantic Bridge programme - that's why I'm so interested in you guy's perceptions!)

 

[leorl]

Likes: great friends and humor of the people, school system allows me enough time for huge involvement in extracurriculars* if I plan my time right, very cooperative class** (this could be particular to my year) and the staff/departmental secretaries try their best to really emphasize teaching, the need to be proactive and resourceful

Dislikes: Unorganization sometimes with inefficiency (not exactly knowing what the next step is and having to wait around to find out, or having things cancelled and rescheduled sometimes frequently), the need to be proactive and resourceful , Dublin can be a filthy city with drunks staggering around at 7 pm on the weekends - not fun unless you're also similarly drunk, not being able to physically do much on rotations (I don't know if that's universal).

*extracurriculars: I spend a huge amount of time in my sport (20+ hours a week training, plus running the club since I'm on the committee). In my first year, I played two sports. I also edited/am working for a student medical journal, serving on the sports administration faculty committee, did/doing research, tutoring for AOL and modding. I Definitely would NOT be able to do all this in a US school.

**great class: we email the whole class extra notes we've done ourselves, or helpful study guides that we've obtained from previous years or certain lecturers. People also sit and do practice exams, find out the answers and email them to the rest of the class. Everyone wants everyone else to do well and I am absolutely certain this type of sharing and comraderie would not happen where I would choose to go in the US.

Re: only coming here because they couldn't get into US schools. Again, this could be particular to my class, but...no, this isn't correct. Most of the North Americans in my class (except for 1) had scores competitive for US schools...well ok, some hadn't taken the MCAT. There's a guy who didn't take the MCAT because he has a DSM-classified reading disability that the MCAT wouldn't accomodate but thank god he's here because he's the one making me do well in my classes. The others are Americans who've had a lot of world experience - done medical missions, been around the world surfing, lived throughout childhood in Europe/Middle East, etc. and we wanted to continue experiencing new things while studying. Only one of the North Americans came here because of rejection from US med schools (keep in mind that some of us didn't even apply to US med schools). I know this is a bit unique, but maybe our class is so close because everyone has come in with the right attitude.

 

[deleted21609]

If asked could you guys pick out 3-5 things you like about studying here

Likes
1) Getting to know people from a wide variety of countries.
2) Having a relatively low pressure environment in med school until the end of each year when exams loomed.
3) That the mornings start so late in Ireland, and that after 2 hours, we'd take half an hour break for tea & scones.
4) Getting all the summers off.
5) Usually pretty predictable exams.

Dislikes
1) Never really being a part of the class.
2) Concern that my accent could negatively impact the grades in oral exams- whether that happens or not is impossible to know.
3) Having to rule out career/specialty options that I might otherwise have considered.
4) Spending more time waiting for lecturers or clinical teachers to show up than I spent learning.
5) Rain + Cold = unpleasant
6) Too few patients & no real role in patient care.

 

[uclakid]

Likes
1) Getting to know people from a wide variety of countries.
2) Having a relatively low pressure environment in med school until the end of each year when exams loomed.
3) That the mornings start so late in Ireland, and that after 2 hours, we'd take half an hour break for tea & scones.
4) Getting all the summers off.
5) Usually pretty predictable exams.

Dislikes
1) Never really being a part of the class.
2) Concern that my accent could negatively impact the grades in oral exams- whether that happens or not is impossible to know.
3) Having to rule out career/specialty options that I might otherwise have considered.
4) Spending more time waiting for lecturers or clinical teachers to show up than I spent learning.
5) Rain + Cold = unpleasant
6) Too few patients & no real role in patient care.

very helpful. thank you.

 

[leorl]

Your mornings started late? Lucky! Mine certainly don't! 9 o'clock every day. If you're in a surgery rotation, 7:30 am starts. Try getting out to Tallaght for 7:30 am! Ugh!

Too few patients?!?!? Which hospital is this? Man, if I had too few patients I'd be out the door and straight back to bed! I actually told my consultant this rotation that I was taking days off to study...!

 

[JMD]

Your mornings started late? Lucky! Mine certainly don't! 9 o'clock every day. If you're in a surgery rotation, 7:30 am starts. Try getting out to Tallaght for 7:30 am! Ugh!


Compared to US schools (at least some of them), that is a late start.

I know that some people on surgery rotation have to be there at 5:30 AM...

 

[Arb]

Likes
1) Getting to know people from a wide variety of countries.
2) Having a relatively low pressure environment in med school until the end of each year when exams loomed.
3) That the mornings start so late in Ireland, and that after 2 hours, we'd take half an hour break for tea & scones.
4) Getting all the summers off.
5) Usually pretty predictable exams.

Dislikes
1) Never really being a part of the class.
2) Concern that my accent could negatively impact the grades in oral exams- whether that happens or not is impossible to know.
3) Having to rule out career/specialty options that I might otherwise have considered.
4) Spending more time waiting for lecturers or clinical teachers to show up than I spent learning.
5) Rain + Cold = unpleasant
6) Too few patients & no real role in patient care.

This sort of contradicts the great reputation for clinical education.

 

[BorthX]

I've been reading along and have found the argument interesting. To Uclakid, the following is directly from the A.B. official website and may be a bias statement but nonetheless it's one to consider.

"All North American Students who have applied for residency posts in the USA after graduation have obtained them. They routinely secure posts at some of the most prestigious institutions in the USA."

I don't know if this statement is all that credible, but I do know from a number of my friends who graduated last year that residency has not been a difficult issue.

 

[Badkarma25]

i've seen a list of where people went who graduated last year, there were quite a few mayo clinic, some duke, a yale opthalmology spot, lots of 'big name' places....i think if you want something and are willing work your tail off, coming from an irish school won't really hinder you all that much.

 

[Badkarma25]

the things i like about going to med school in ireland:

1) much more relaxed style of learning with more free time to do other things than you'd get at home
2) good reputation of the schools internationally
3) getting to live in a different country for a few years is a very valuable experience

things i don't like:

1) the rampant inefficiency of the entire country right down to the faculty of medicine and our class reps
2) the fact that we (international students) and our concerns re: exams, organizational stuff etc are completely ignored despite the exorbitant fees we pay

 

[deleted21609]

Your mornings started late? Lucky! Mine certainly don't! 9 o'clock every day. If you're in a surgery rotation, 7:30 am starts. Try getting out to Tallaght for 7:30 am! Ugh!

I meant that as compared to US med students. My friend started peds at 6:30 and starts surgery at 5:30. I agree that 7:30 isn't really late, but it's relatively late.

(Oops, I just read JMDs very similar response.)

 

[leorl]

Yeah, the system is different. But in starting at 7:30, still waking up at 5:00 to get out there (unless you live close to the hospital). I'm not sure...my friends in the US go on call and stuff, which we don't do...but then they only get 2 years in the hospital. Also, some in the US get more hands on experience but that's in schools where they set up with rural hospitals. And usually everyone in the US has finished classes in the previous 2 years so they aren't trying to do rotations AND coursework except studying for shelfs?

 

[deleted21609]

Yeah, the system is different. But in starting at 7:30, still waking up at 5:00 to get out there (unless you live close to the hospital). I'm not sure...my friends in the US go on call and stuff, which we don't do...but then they only get 2 years in the hospital. Also, some in the US get more hands on experience but that's in schools where they set up with rural hospitals. And usually everyone in the US has finished classes in the previous 2 years so they aren't trying to do rotations AND coursework except studying for shelfs?

Did I just read Leorl trying to convince us that something in Ireland is worse or equally bad? I'll book an optho appointment asap.

 

[Sage880]

The inefficiency and incompetence I'm referring to is related to both the school administration and everyday life.

Our 1st year class rep (one of two) here at UCC is American and she's doing a good job. Our first MCQ exam was graded and posted in 2 days. We've had our exam schedule set since back in October.

We have an International student liason here who bends over backwards to make sure north American students have an easy time attending school, booking trips home, etc. She seems to know each one of us by name. UCC seems pretty NA friendly to me. We even get exempted from classes we've already done to death in undergrad (see you in hell Biochem!) and have our tuition refunded for the modules we don't take.

Yes, it is sometimes annoying to deal with certain lack of organization issues but I don't think this will last forever. Every year there are more and more international students and every upper year med has commented on how the next year goes much more smoothly for them then the year before. Honestly, I think they've done a pretty good job and have been really willing to listen to suggestions on how to make it easier - even out right asking us face to face.

Maybe you shouldn't listen to my advice though. I had very high stats and could have easily gone to a NA school. I had just moved to Ireland for a job though when I decided on med school and I wasn't really ready to go back to NA yet. I'm 50/50 on whether I want to work here or America when I'm done but I'll figure that out later. Anyway, I think I'm one person who chose to come here and, not to get into an argument, I decided on Ireland over Australia because I thought the schools were much better. Some of the top doctors in their fields are Irish grads. It's a little insulting to the whole country to imply that their education is second rate. Yes, it's hard to come back to the US after attending school in another country but I bet you it's even harder to get a residency spot in an Irish program after attending the US.

As a last comment, yes - there are people in my class and upper years who clearly regret coming here. They bitch, moan, complain, and pretty much make themselves miserable by comparing Ireland to back home. These people are poison to listen to. They are the exact people you wouldn't want to hang out with back home either. They seem to have no clue about what people think of their negative attitude. It comes out in their every word and they wonder why they were refused entry after an interview at a NA school. By far, the Irish universities' biggest fault is not having interviews to get into their schools. Weeding out these people would be a huge plus for the schools.

 

[Badkarma25]

Ditto on the international students advisor, she is the only lady at UCD who can get anything done nad she's like a super hero i don't know how she does it.

I never meant to imply that the education here is second rate. I know a lot of irish doctors back in Canada who are very good at what they do and internationally reknowned for it (particularly with asthma and respiratory diseases).

Unfortunately, scheduling and logistics are not strong points here. We're going to try to take the bull by the horns after Christmas and 'install' a north american class rep. We need one. As for having MCQ's graded in 2 days, maybe in another lifetime, but I'm glad someone is getting it done!