Where to apply?

[GopherBrain]

Wow. A year has passed since I was a neurology applicant. It has been an amazing 12 months, and I have found myself at an amazing program.

I remember last July I was still trying to finalize my application list. I think this forum is a great place to refine that program list prior to the impending "target date".

Just for reference, here are the programs I applied to last year.

In no specific order, other than roughly West to East coast:

UWashington, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UCSD, UArizona, UMinnesota, Mayo, WashU, UMichigan, URochester, UPenn, Brown, Yale, Hopkins, Partners, BIDMC, Emory, and Duke. (Yeah, I know I overapplied.)

If you are still trying to decide whether a program is worth taking a look at, post it here, we will weigh in with our highly biased and largely uninformed opinions....

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[AznTrojan]

university of miami - jackson memorial hospital.. although maybe not this year.. apparently there are about 10 people from UM going into neuro.. and 5 of them wanna stay and be my intern next year

the prelim intern year as thus far been pretty easy.. my first month has been an elective month (neuro wards)... and i've had plenty of time to get to know the system while still getting lost in the monster of a hospital..

over the intern year.. i only have 3 months of overnight call (VA wards, caridiology and MICU)... the rest of the time.. the intern stays until he/she finishes his/her work.. if your team is on call (q4).. the intern stays until 9 pm.. the pgy-2 is the nightfloat at jackson memorial hospital..

 

[Claymore]

Gopher-
An official thank you is in order. I've been following your posts (great FAQ!) as well as others' and have learned a great deal about different programs. I would encourage everyone applying this year to dig up last year's "post-interview impressions of programs" thread. Perhaps it should be a sticky?

Rather than ask about a specific program, I wanted to hear your thoughts on a theme that seems to recur..."clinical" vs. "research" oriented programs. Is this an artificial distinction, or are some programs really that different? For instance, I am in Chicago and I hear that the clinically focused environment at a place like UIC and Rush is quite different than the more research oriented program at U of C. Is it necessary to attend one of the more academic type places in order to secure a fellowship of your choice?

 

[GopherBrain]

Rather than ask about a specific program, I wanted to hear your thoughts on a theme that seems to recur..."clinical" vs. "research" oriented programs. Is this an artificial distinction, or are some programs really that different? For instance, I am in Chicago and I hear that the clinically focused environment at a place like UIC and Rush is quite different than the more research oriented program at U of C. Is it necessary to attend one of the more academic type places in order to secure a fellowship of your choice?

Claymore- Thank You for the kind words. I added a link to the post-interview impressions thread to the FAQ.

As I've said before, I think that this clinical vs. research program distinction is a misconception, one willfully fostered by the programs that position themselves as top "clinical" destinations. After all, we are all looking for "clinical" training, right? Isn't that what residency is?

So, what is a residency? Mostly inpatient time, plus clinic and electives. This is true no matter where you go. Are the wards at Rush somehow more clinical than those at U of C? Is outpatient clinic more clinic-ey? I don't think so.

The difference between the programs is mainly in the faculty and the elective time. At academic programs, the faculty will spend less months per year on the wards and do more research. As a resident, you will likely be encouraged to use some of your elective time to join them in a project. Do you have to? Nope. You can spend your time polishing your EMG skills, etc, instead.

In short, I think that a more accurate description of programs would break them into "clinical+academic" programs and "clinical emphasis" programs. This division, however, would make the current "clinical" programs feel less special.

For fellowships, you can get into them from either route... The more clinical fellowships, i.e. electrophysiology, are especially open to the "clinical" people who plan to use their skills in private practice.

 

[Methyldopa]

what's people's opinion on BIDMC??

 

[GopherBrain]

what's people's opinion on BIDMC??

Very solid clinical program, solidly second tier. Unfortunately, it will forever be in the shadow the the 500 pound gorilla next door.

As I understand it (and I may be wrong, so people should feel free to correct me), Harvard used to have two programs of roughly equal stature, the MGH program, and the "Longwood" program, which was BIDMC plus the Brigham. These were then realigned to pair MGH and BWH into "Partners", and leave BIDMC alone. This was, to say the least, something of a blow to the BIDMC program.

One of my small pleasures last year came from cancelling my BIDMC interview. When they called to offer the interview, I got the impression that I was supposed to be VERY impressed, and they kept mentioning their Harvard affilliation (which MGH did not). A couple of other phone conversation left me with the impression that they thought that they were picking residents, not vice versa or anywhere in between... In the end, I didn't have the time or money (or desire) to go to Boston twice, so I just cancelled them.

 

[Methyldopa]

Very solid clinical program, solidly second tier. Unfortunately, it will forever be in the shadow the the 500 pound gorilla next door.

As I understand it (and I may be wrong, so people should feel free to correct me), Harvard used to have two programs of roughly equal stature, the MGH program, and the "Longwood" program, which was BIDMC plus the Brigham. These were then realigned to pair MGH and BWH into "Partners", and leave BIDMC alone. This was, to say the least, something of a blow to the BIDMC program.

One of my small pleasures last year came from cancelling my BIDMC interview. When they called to offer the interview, I got the impression that I was supposed to be VERY impressed, and they kept mentioning their Harvard affilliation (which MGH did not). A couple of other phone conversation left me with the impression that they thought that they were picking residents, not vice versa or anywhere in between... In the end, I didn't have the time or money (or desire) to go to Boston twice, so I just cancelled them.

Thanks for the input. Looking at their website, I seem to get the idea that BDIMC is focused on making academic neurologists out of their residents.

 

[saphenous]

Hi Gopher,
Ive sent u a pm. sorry for disturbing the thread.


Thanks, Saph

 

[Claymore]

Ok, how about some of the Midwest programs? In particular some of the ones that aren't typically mentioned as big names...Iowa, Indiana, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Cinicinnatti, MCOW, etc. I'm looking at applying to a few of these but not sure which ones.

 

[GopherBrain]

Ok, how about some of the Midwest programs? In particular some of the ones that aren't typically mentioned as big names...Iowa, Indiana, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Cinicinnatti, MCOW, etc. I'm looking at applying to a few of these but not sure which ones.

M-I-N-N-E-S-O-T-A, Minnesota, Minnesota, Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, Gophers! Rah!

 

[omores]

Aloha.

I'll be applying in child neurology, but would love to glean some information on a few of these programs -- as a child neurology resident, you do a JAR year with the adult folks. And what an interesting year that will be, considering I'll have two years of pediatrics under my belt, but no adult medicine since med school. Yeeehaw!

Would love to hear your views (no matter how biased and uninformed) on U of Washington, Mayo, U of Minn, and Wash U.

Thanks!

 

[kasimagore1]

If you are willing to stay in the Midwest for pediatric neurology, you should definitely consider Cincinnati Chilren's Hospital...arguably one of the largest ped neuro departments in the country.

 

[GopherBrain]

...arguably one of the largest ped neuro departments in the country.

I'm going to be a smart-ass and point out that this isn't a matter of debate. Either it is one of the largest or it isn't...

 

[omores]

Yes, I've heard good things about the Cincinnati program. Two of my former classmates matched into Peds there last year and were totally thrilled -- said it was far and away their favorite place.

Not sure about living in Cincinnati, though. Dragging my husband and daughter with me so location is a major consideration. Can you tell me anything about it?

And GopherBrain: got time to share your thoughts on UWash, WashU and Mayo?

 

[GopherBrain]

Yes, I've heard good things about the Cincinnati program. Two of my former classmates matched into Peds there last year and were totally thrilled -- said it was far and away their favorite place.

Not sure about living in Cincinnati, though. Dragging my husband and daughter with me so location is a major consideration. Can you tell me anything about it?

And GopherBrain: got time to share your thoughts on UWash, WashU and Mayo?

All very solid programs, with roughly equal stature in my mind (I'm sure some would disagree). I would feel lucky to match at either of them.

I didn't actually interview at UWashington last year, but I heard good things. People love Seattle, and UWash is definitely in the upper tier of West coast programs (on par with Stanford).

WashU was a solid program, and they had perhaps the happiest group of residents that I met while interviewing. The PD is a very strong advocate for the program. The Barnes-Jewish Hospital is huge. For some reason WashU doesn't have great name recognition outside of medicine. Go there and you will spend four years explaining to relatives that you don't live in Seattle.

Mayo, Mayo, Mayo... What to say? The residents were very friendly, the faculty is great, and the place prints its' own money. The resident clinic looks like a very high-end private practice. Residents do well in fellowship (especially if you want to stay at Mayo.) You are almost guaranteed publications, and Mayo will pay your way to any conference where you have a poster or paper accepted. Ancillary services don't get any better, the place is a well-oiled machine. Still, somehow, Mayo left me cold. It is a bit more formal than I like, the patient population is not super-diverse. Who knows, I may end up there someday, but it isn't exactly what I was looking for in a residency.

 

[Methyldopa]

Anyone got any idea about Penn and Columbia?

 

[jfanman]

What would be some of the 2nd tier programs in the West Coast that I should consider? I already know the first tier programs but wanted some backups as well. Thanks.

 

[jfanman]

Anybody have any experience with some of the lesser known programs in California like UCI, Loma Linda or Harbor-UCLA? Any comments would be appreciated whether you did an elective, interviewed there or heard from friends that went there. Thanks.

 

[Claymore]

Wow. A year has passed since I was a neurology applicant. It has been an amazing 12 months, and I have found myself at an amazing program.

I remember last July I was still trying to finalize my application list. I think this forum is a great place to refine that program list prior to the impending "target date".

Just for reference, here are the programs I applied to last year.

In no specific order, other than roughly West to East coast:

UWashington, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UCSD, UArizona, UMinnesota, Mayo, WashU, UMichigan, URochester, UPenn, Brown, Yale, Hopkins, Partners, BIDMC, Emory, and Duke. (Yeah, I know I overapplied.)

If you are still trying to decide whether a program is worth taking a look at, post it here, we will weigh in with our highly biased and largely uninformed opinions....

Ok, I'll throw out a couple more...Cleveland Clinic and Dartmouth. Thoughts? How tough are these two places to get into?

 

[omores]

GB: thanks for the info!

For child neuro, Mayo presents itself as the type of program I'd like to be at, at least in terms of its emphasis (integrated program, lots of research opps.) However, I've been getting the impression that it's absolutely not a casual, laid-back kind of place. They sent me a residency brochure a while back and I remember thinking that I would just never fit in there -- all those business suits! I'd feel like such an alien. But we'll see.

 

[neuro74]

GB: thanks for the info!

For child neuro, Mayo presents itself as the type of program I'd like to be at, at least in terms of its emphasis (integrated program, lots of research opps.) However, I've been getting the impression that it's absolutely not a casual, laid-back kind of place. They sent me a residency brochure a while back and I remember thinking that I would just never fit in there -- all those business suits! I'd feel like such an alien. But we'll see.

The residents are pretty laid back. Don’t let the suits fool you. They know how to have fun and enjoy the warm days of Minnesota before the winter. From a resident’s educational stand point, there is no place like it. I can elaborate more if you guys want. I am here at Mayo because of the people and the education.

 

[jessimai1]

The residents are pretty laid back. Don’t let the suits fool you. They know how to have fun and enjoy the warm days of Minnesota before the winter. From a resident’s educational stand point, there is no place like it. I can elaborate more if you guys want. I am here at Mayo because of the people and the education.

What do you think about the MAYO Scottsdale and Jacksonville programs? I was going to apply to a late summer/early fall rotation at either of the 3 MAYO programs, but they have quite early dates for application, many months in advance, and I missed the dates. I really like to looks of the Scottsdale program, bit it is so new.

 

[neuro74]

What do you think about the MAYO Scottsdale and Jacksonville programs? I was going to apply to a late summer/early fall rotation at either of the 3 MAYO programs, but they have quite early dates for application, many months in advance, and I missed the dates. I really like to looks of the Scottsdale program, bit it is so new.

The locations are great. I know some residents from the Jax sight and they are super. I don't have much info on the Scottsdale site except I visted there for a conference, and it was beautiful.

I think you cannot go wrong in terms of the staff that are working in all three sites. Obviously, the Rochester site has the full compliment of 80+ staff neurologists in every subspecialty. Mayo has a system of doing away rotation in areas that are not covered (fully paid for in terms of travel and housing), so one could do neurovestibular clinic at Rochester if you went to Scottsdale for residency. Hope that helps.

 

[benwallace]

Anyone have information on Loma Linda's Neurology Department...is it just not attractive due to location, or other factors?