Where to go after OZ?

[markdc]

I think we have had discussions in the past about this but they don't seem to be shown on this board anymore (possibly archived?). So what I wanted to know is what are the likely options after Aus? For example:

1). How easy is it to stay here? (What are the steps, and are we limited in our competition for specialties?)
2). How easy is it to go to the UK? (I heard each system is similar and it is easier to go to the UK than the US/Canada.
3). It would be great to hear from any grads from Aus that have gone to either Canada or the US and to hear about personal experiences regarding setting up residencies.

For those who have gone back to Can/US after Aus, do you recommend taking the elective as a chance to network and possibly make a connection that would help in gaining a residency?

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[redshifteffect]

1) Unfortunately for you it will be nearly impossible to stay since you are in a post grad school. Big city means low chance of staying. You can always try and get your PR now. A girl from Adelaide recently got her PR (was a former international) and she got kicked out but UTas (as i said before) usually has free spots for locals so they accepted her. If you want to stay (and are really serious about it) i would suggest you apply for ur pr now and if you get it transfer to a school that will allow you stay (probably an undergrad school) the problem is that you may not be exempted from the first 2 years (though she was). Basically if you get a PR there is NO LIMITATION to what you can get...but the problem for u is that you are in an area where it's difficult to get a PR. (through medicine anyway). You will have to try via your previous degree.

2) The UK is easy to go to. But as of last december all Aus grad are required to write the PLAB. From what i've seen/heard it's a lot easier than the USMLE and it's a one part test unlike the USMLE.

 

[tl47]

It appears that people around here (SA) doesn't seem to be so bleak about staying back in Australia. I'm not sure why.

Also, I've already gotten one rural practice (which I like anyway) willing to sponsor me if I decide to stay in the second week I arrived (prior to even starting school!) That is, they will let me stay for internship (which I hear differing accounts of: some say you can stay for one year definitely, some say no... not sure, so you better check... I know that in my case [due to my country of origin], it is a definite yes [mentioned in my acceptance letter to the school itself]... I can stay for my internship --- not limited to cap on international interns). And then, they will help me with the application for PR/work permit. I wasn't even trying... i.e. I didn't even ask for it. So there... it might not be that bad. I've no idea how such things come about. But it's nice to know someone is willing to take me already .

Anyway, short of it is: don't cross out Australia. Check the procedures first, if you want to stay.

On RSE's point on PR... the locals pay a lot less tuition! At least one person I know planned ahead to get her PR prior to commencing studies. That cut the full-tuition internationals pay to almost 1/4 (or less!) and you are also eligible for all kinds of aid (not clear of details... but it's "HEX" and Centrelink funds or something like that). So, not a bad idea to get a PR prior to school. But I think that's kinda late for most of us .

 

[markdc]

I know it is possible to stay here. In theory it should be relatively easy if you are willing to go a rural gp practice. But if you are not into that idea competing for specialties may be more difficult.

The delemma is that it takes so much longer to specialize that it makes it more frustrating to pay off the major debt etc... Whereas going back to north America would allow for faster specialization. It's all a big balancing act and I would like to figure out how to go about each option before choosing.

 

[tl47]

Yeh, hope Kimberley (?) would be able to comment on this since she has already completed her degree and should be halfway through residency in US .

Good question too... would like to know the opinion of those who made it back to US. I believe they were covered in the old threads, and you can try a search. Otherwise, maybe it is good to get updated comments from people...

I doubt anyone here (in the forum) would be from US/Can and stayed on in Australia... so I guess at least one side of the story is better than none.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by markdc
I know it is possible to stay here. In theory it should be relatively easy if you are willing to go a rural gp practice. But if you are not into that idea competing for specialties may be more difficult.

The delemma is that it takes so much longer to specialize that it makes it more frustrating to pay off the major debt etc... Whereas going back to north America would allow for faster specialization. It's all a big balancing act and I would like to figure out how to go about each option before choosing.

Actually its not that easy either. To stay you need a PR; and same for all residency training program (GP or Otherwise). To get the PR you require an RMO position (bascially like an internship but it's for two years). Unless you can get a PR in another way (ie through another degree).

The point is that once you get the PR you are equally competitive for all residencies; regardless of the fact that you came as an international.

 

[pitman]

Currently the official limit is 1 year internship post-grad, preventing PR (unless you get sponsored, or you can use your previous degree which means putting off residency in the meantime). The 1 year allowance, just short of the all-important 2, was just enacted this year, as the govt is sloooowly acknowledging the Dr. shortage. Two deans I've spoken to (one whom I respect) believe that by the time we (1st years) graduate, it will be much easier to stay (i.e., get 2 years and PR) as an int'l., particularly since we're studying here. Of course, it's all hearsay, and a gamble, and the AMA imo is resisting such a move.

Nice to hear an anecdotal offer for sponsorship tho.

-pitman

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by tl47
Yeh, hope Kimberley (?) would be able to comment on this since she has already completed her degree and should be halfway through residency in US .

Good question too... would like to know the opinion of those who made it back to US. I believe they were covered in the old threads, and you can try a search. Otherwise, maybe it is good to get updated comments from people...

I doubt anyone here (in the forum) would be from US/Can and stayed on in Australia... so I guess at least one side of the story is better than none.

When I matriculated we were made to sign a form stating that we would leave after we completed our studies and would not seek further training in Oz. That changed somewhat over the years with a few of my classmates being allowed to stay for internship year, although with a fair bit of difficulty and none of them were able to stay at Flinders but were sent to more rural or less "prestigious" (shall we say) hospitals in and around Adelaide.

I understand that there is no hard and fast rule but in general, IMHO you should not expect to be able to stay after your medical education, but others there more recently (I left 4 years ago) would be better current sources of info.

 

[markdc]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
When I matriculated we were made to sign a form stating that we would leave after we completed our studies and would not seek further training in Oz. That changed somewhat over the years with a few of my classmates being allowed to stay for internship year, although with a fair bit of difficulty and none of them were able to stay at Flinders but were sent to more rural or less "prestigious" (shall we say) hospitals in and around Adelaide.

I understand that there is no hard and fast rule but in general, IMHO you should not expect to be able to stay after your medical education, but others there more recently (I left 4 years ago) would be better current sources of info.

It seems strange that you could be made to sign a form at the point of matriculation. To me this sounds slightly unethical and should have been negotiated with students up front before ever enrolling. Maybe one of us current students can figure that one out...

Kimberli, since you have gone through the process of going back to the US it would be great to hear from you what you believe the barriers are and how to go about finding a good residency as a FMG. If any Canadians ended up going to the US from Oz it would be great if they could comment on the process as well. I've heard varying stories of frustration regarding the visa process and would like to know more about that as well.

Alot of things can change in the next 4 years but I am not going to count on the Australian medical profession allowing us to stay despite the shortages. The truth is that Canada, USA, UK and other developed countries also have shortages. At this time the "market" should favour us FMGS more than ever before. If I am prevented from staying, the US is looking like the most likely country and the closest to home. If anyone has any suggested resources regarding going to the US as a FMG then let us all in on them.

 

[pitman]

It's definite that currently int'l students can stay for internship year. In theory, that option could be revoked, but the trend if any is in the other direction (loosening up). This might be useful for those who can't get electives in the US during school or who otherwise want to put off the match for a year(?). The bigger problem as I see it is the 5-7 years it now takes to be a registered (i.e., independent) GP here!! Maybe that can be cut down if you're rural (more hands-on, less bureaucracy, more hard up), but otherwise is quite unattractive compared to US.

-pitman

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by pitman
It's definite that currently int'l students can stay for internship year. In theory, that option could be revoked, but the trend if any is in the other direction (loosening up). This might be useful for those who can't get electives in the US during school or who otherwise want to put off the match for a year(?). The bigger problem as I see it is the 5-7 years it now takes to be a registered (i.e., independent) GP here!! Maybe that can be cut down if you're rural (more hands-on, less bureaucracy, more hard up), but otherwise is quite unattractive compared to US.

-pitman

Pitman,

good to see you back. Just thought I would clarify something; to become a GP takes only 3 years. Most places have an extreme shortage of them and thus its easy to get into a training program.

The problem is with the PR. That takes about two years to get via the RMO route and that already includes one year of internship required to be a licesned doc in Aus.

Potential advantages though are no USMLEs and once you get the PR open competition for any field. We got a presentation from a Radiologist today and he said that the program here was hardly ever filled...compare this to the US where it is impossible to get into.