Where to go from here...?

[okmaxd]

Hello guys,

So I'm a reapplicant this cycle. Long story short, I applied two years ago with a mediocre undergrad GPA and a low MCAT (498). I obviously did not receive any luck. Last year, I went and did a graduate level postbacc program and finished the program with a GPA of 3.71. I also improved my MCAT score to 506 (126/124/129/127). I know my CARS score killed me, but at this point, I'm not very keen on retaking the MCAT. I did submit apps to DO schools but so far, I have not received any II's. I did interview at the school where I did my postbacc, but I was rejected recently even though I passed the interview stage. I know the Caribbean is not the best choice (and I honestly would rather not go there), but I cannot wait another year and apply again.

As far as EC's go, I've worked as a scribe in the ER for over two years (have great letters form both DO and MD physicians), have worked in several labs, currently doing some clinical research as a volunteer and recently submitted a paper as a first author that is currently under review. I've also done non-clinical volunteering such as tutoring kids, working at a cancer center as a library volunteer, and a few other things when I was in a fraternity in undergrad (which was like 5 years ago).

This process has been devastating. I can understand not getting a lot of MD love, but the lack of DO invites has truly hurt me. To be fair, I did apply to DO schools a little late (late September and submitted secondaries by late October), but that was because I was juggling MD apps while cramming for the MCAT over the summer. I thought I would have a solid shot somewhere, but going into March, things don't look too good. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

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[Dr. Anonymouss]

With your mcat and post-bac gpa you will get into DO school, don’t go Caribbean. The biggest issue is that you weren’t prepared for the cycle or you possibly wrote bad letters because stats wise you are fine. You should be submitting your application on June 1st and rewrite all your essays. Look into adding some more volunteer work with underserved communities. It seems like you have both research and clinical exposure marked down so I wouldn’t put any more time into those.

also, what was the school list you applied to?

 

[okmaxd]

I applied to CCOM, NOVA (rejected), Western U in Pomona (rejected), PCOM, VCOM, Rowan, NYIT, and LECOM Bradenton.

I’d love feedback on what good schools I’d be a good fit for. I know CCOM students do well because of the location as far as matching/rotations/etc.

Money is tight which is why I don’t know if I can wait another year. Any tips on full-time emoloyment that would help me on my resume would be appreciated. I can take the MCAT again but I’m not sure if a third take is going to make me look too good even if I bump my overall score by 6-8 points.

 

[Faha]

What is your undergraduate sGPA and cGPA ? Where is your state of residence?

 

[okmaxd]

My cGPA was 3.3 and sGPA if I remember correctly was around 3.2. Virginia resident.

 

[Faha]

When you reapply, apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July. Include all these schools:
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 4 schools)
CUSOM
ACOM
ARCOM
NYIT-Arkansas
LMU-DCOM
WCU-COM
UIWSOM
BCOM
ICOM
CHSU-COM
LECOM (all schools)
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia

 

[deleted966837]

Don’t retake the MCAT. Apply more widely. Do some weekend volunteering to keep your app up to date. Have SDN readers review your essays. Apply early and take good care of yourself in the meantime.

The application process is extremely discouraging for so many of us. I can totally relate. But you have put in a substantial amount of work and can still become a doctor.

 

[okmaxd]

Since I may be reapplying, do you think I should try retaking the MCAT? It would be my third attempt, but I feel like I can definitely improve by at least 5-6 points. Or should I stick with what I have as of right now and look for nonclinical activities? I'd love to hear some ideas on valuable nonclinical experiences.

 

[Faha]

You do not need to retake the MCAT since 506 is adequate for all DO schools.

 

[okmaxd]

Since I would be reapplying, do you think retaking the MCAT for MD schools is a good idea? Or do you think that an improvement of 5-6 points is not sufficient based on my EC's and stats? If I do end up reapplying, I'm thinking of volunteering with the Peace Corps or somewhere along those lines. I do think my nonclinical hours may be a little inconsistent.

 

[deleted1041468]

Since I would be reapplying, do you think retaking the MCAT for MD schools is a good idea? Or do you think that an improvement of 5-6 points is not sufficient based on my EC's and stats? If I do end up reapplying, I'm thinking of volunteering with the Peace Corps or somewhere along those lines. I do think my nonclinical hours may be a little inconsistent.

You can apply to VCOM but I think when I attended they required the last 120 hours to have a gpa above 3.7.

 

[erdoc111]

Make it a priority to get your DO apps out first since this is where you are most likely to be successful. Get as much new volunteering as possible now and plan to get your DO applications out on June 1. Why do you think you will increase your MCAT score by 6 points?

 

[Azmkv]

Since I would be reapplying, do you think retaking the MCAT for MD schools is a good idea? Or do you think that an improvement of 5-6 points is not sufficient based on my EC's and stats? If I do end up reapplying, I'm thinking of volunteering with the Peace Corps or somewhere along those lines. I do think my nonclinical hours may be a little inconsistent.

if you can get a 510+, i think you have a shot at MD. Try to get 1-2 more points on CARS and C/P and you should snatch some interviews.

 

[deleted1041468]

if you can get a 510+, i think you have a shot at MD. Try to get 1-2 more points on CARS and C/P and you should snatch some interviews.

Until they average the MCAT scores.

 

[Azmkv]

Until they average the MCAT scores.

False. Not all medical schools straight up average the MCAT scores and throw the apps away. They will see the trends, PS, ECs before making any premature decision. Yeah, maybe the OP is out for T20 since they do care heavily on numbers, but that doesn't mean he/she has no chance at other, still quality MD schools. I've seen people getting into MD schools with multiple MCAT attempts. OP should still aim for MD if he/she really wants it.

 

[deleted1041468]

False. Not all medical schools straight up average the MCAT scores and throw the apps away. They will see the trends, PS, ECs before making any premature decision. Yeah, maybe the OP is out for T20 since they do care heavily on numbers, but that doesn't mean he/she has no chance at other, still quality MD schools. I've seen people getting into MD schools with multiple MCAT attempts. OP should still aim for MD if he/she really wants it.

Lol false that’s funny. Yeah duh everyone knows that it’s not every school but it’s quite a few. It’s not in the OPs favor. I’d get whatever I can. Low tier MD schools and DOs schools are going to take a hit period with the new pass fail. Might as well get what you can and get the degree. Plus I wouldn’t risk the off chance of doing worse on the MCAT. Too many unknowns.

 

[Azmkv]

Lol false that’s funny. Yeah duh everyone knows that it’s not every school but it’s quite a few. It’s not in the OPs favor. I’d get whatever I can. Low tier MD schools and DOs schools are going to take a hit period with the new pass fail. Might as well get what you can and get the degree. Plus I wouldn’t risk the off chance of doing worse on the MCAT. Too many unknowns.

Any low tier MD students will do much better with P/F usmle than any DO students. I would have told OP not to aim for MD if he already got accepted at a DO school. But OP hasn't tried for the MD yet. I'm not sure what the the OP really wants in the long end of his/her career, but if he/she is still young (<27 ish) and want anything competitive, i would say it's worth an attempt. DO school won't go away anywhere the next cycle if OP doesn't get into any MD.

 

[Tchapm03]

Hello guys,

So I'm a reapplicant this cycle. Long story short, I applied two years ago with a mediocre undergrad GPA and a low MCAT (498). I obviously did not receive any luck. Last year, I went and did a graduate level postbacc program and finished the program with a GPA of 3.71. I also improved my MCAT score to 506 (126/124/129/127). I know my CARS score killed me, but at this point, I'm not very keen on retaking the MCAT. I did submit apps to DO schools but so far, I have not received any II's. I did interview at the school where I did my postbacc, but I was rejected recently even though I passed the interview stage. I know the Caribbean is not the best choice (and I honestly would rather not go there), but I cannot wait another year and apply again.

As far as EC's go, I've worked as a scribe in the ER for over two years (have great letters form both DO and MD physicians), have worked in several labs, currently doing some clinical research as a volunteer and recently submitted a paper as a first author that is currently under review. I've also done non-clinical volunteering such as tutoring kids, working at a cancer center as a library volunteer, and a few other things when I was in a fraternity in undergrad (which was like 5 years ago).

This process has been devastating. I can understand not getting a lot of MD love, but the lack of DO invites has truly hurt me. To be fair, I did apply to DO schools a little late (late September and submitted secondaries by late October), but that was because I was juggling MD apps while cramming for the MCAT over the summer. I thought I would have a solid shot somewhere, but going into March, things don't look too good. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

three words: NEVER STOP TRYING

i don’t care what anyone says about us DO schools vs foreign grads vs columbia. When it all comes down to it, it doesn’t matter what happened before you stood in front of the patient. it matters the moment you’re there. The people who care where you went to school are of matter. See if you can take out a loan and get a masters. Try for digital analytics. It will give you a spin.
BE CANDID. Don’t make excuses.
YOU WANT TO REQUEST AN ORAL EXAM!
PERIOD!
do you have any idea how many people I know with 160iqs who can barely pass silly tests? It has nothing to do with your ability, knowledge, nor is it a reflection of your future performance, it’s a “test” that wants you to answer exactly what it wants.
if your mind thinks differently, request an ORAL exam. If the school gives you pushback, listen, write to your congressman. DO IT.

if anyone here begs to differ you can speak with someone 17 years out and I’ll tell you all about the system and the exams and how they aren’t designed to think, only to memorize. Period.
if you’re a thInker, you will crush it in your clerksjips and going forward. but sometimes you just have to keep it simple.
it’s OK TO ASK FOR ORAL EXAMINATION.
in 1 year no one will care and In 10 years you will kick yourself if you didn’t try.

trust me. You are nkt inept. You’re not going to fail at this unless you quit. Ignore what anyone says. Just keep going. Write to the dean of the school, call call call. find Out who runs the MCATS and talk tk the TOP person. YOU TRULY CAN DO THIS IF YOU WANT IT. Don’t be afraid of a no! the second you hear a no is when the actual request begins. Now screw your head on straight, devise different study plans and different means of test taking.

IF YOU WANT TO BE A DOCTOR, YOU WILL BE.

i promise. nk More asking people’s opinions. Just go do it.
I’ll see you on the flip side - congrats!

 

[Tchapm03]

I’m proud of you!
now trust yourself and know that there is a way to make anything happen if you want it badly enough. And you will have it.
plan for tomorrow:
Action plan
1. 2 new approaches to studying
employ one approach for a week: questions ONLY then answers - read them!!
now retake an exam
2. This same week, you are going to take your breaks and take action. Pick up the phone and call, people want to hear your voice not another email. Show how much you care! You will do it. The scores don’t matter - it’s your passion! What you know may be too much! Or perhaps just thinking from a different angle. One bite at a time.
3. backup plan: online courses prep for data analytics. What will this do? Make you stand out AND you’ll be a step ahead! get a head start.

tjere is no straight path. There is no paved road. There is no compass and def not a tour guide. The anatomy books are nothing like the body and every body is different. In the like, we are all on our own path and all different, but collectively, we are all passionate about becoming physicians and helping. No one takes The same path and no two humans are the same.

you've got this!! Go for it!

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

You're a Virginia resident and you did not apply to LUCOM? Did you also apply to every Virginia MD school, especially VCU and EVMS? If you truly want to be a doctor then you need to be smart about where you apply. Regional loyalty is a pretty big deal in medicine.

 

[wysdoc]

When you reapply, apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July. Include all these schools:
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 4 schools)
CUSOM
ACOM
ARCOM
NYIT-Arkansas
LMU-DCOM
WCU-COM
UIWSOM
BCOM
ICOM
CHSU-COM
LECOM (all schools)
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia

I agree with @Faha. Your application was WAY too late and this is part of what doomed you last year.
Apply very early this time. Many first-time applicants have no MCAT score at all right now, and no telling when the MCAT testing will begin again.
Re-applicants and new applicants who already took their tests have the chance to be complete early and eligible for interviews.

 

[okmaxd]

Thank you for all the responses. So a few things I've been thinking about:

1. The postbacc that I did had the option of doing one more year to get a Masters. The classes we took were the classes that the M1's were taking. However, I decided not to pursue the Masters because I thought I would be better off working on other aspects of my application such as clinical and lab research. After talking to some of the MD and DO schools in the past few weeks to get reapplicant counseling, some DO schools have flat out told me that I would not be a good candidate for their school (i.e. VCOM) because my undergrad GPA was too low (unless I do their version of a postbacc with guaranteed admissions). Another DO school told me that they require at least a 125 on each section even though my composite score was competitive for their school. I've spoken to a couple of MD schools and they told me my GPA from the postbacc is competitive for their program and that my undergrad GPA was offset by my postbacc performance. However, they rightfully claimed that my MCAT was a little on the lower end of what they usually consider competitive (i.e. my score was 25th percentile or below).

2. I can do better on the MCAT. I scored a little lower than expected because after finishing the postbacc, I crammed for the MCAT in like 6-7 weeks to get my application in. I believe that if I give myself a solid 12-13 weeks to study this time around (looking at a date in July depending on how the COVID situation pans out), I can improve my score by at least 5-6 points (looking at CARS and C/P specifically).

3. Some MD schools have told me that I lack sufficient nonclinical experiences. That is something I'm working on as I write this. I feel like if I can put in some meaningful nonclinical experiences in my application and have a better MCAT score, I can give myself a good shot.

4. My concern is taking the MCAT for a third time. Will this make me look bad? I will certainly send my DO and MD apps the first day they're available to send out (currently working on my PS and experiences section), but is retaking the MCAT a good idea? For the DO programs, should I just send my application in with a 506 and take the new MCAT later in the summer for MD schools?

5. I'm not sure if I can even do this but should I spend the extra year to finish my Masters if the school allows me to come back after a year?

To be clear, I don't mind going to a DO program. However, I would like to still try for MD again because this P/F Step situation as nice as it sounds, it scares me a little. I just don't know how it will affect future physicians.

 

[Damson]

Do not take the MCAT again. Apply DO. You will be fine with that competitive score
Your post-bacc GPA offsets your undergraduate record
Boost your application with more clinical/nonclinical experiences as you see fit, and as medical schools advise
Have "multiple eyes vet your essays" next cycle as @Goro would say

Also your school list was far too limited. Reapply to those and more

 

[Goro]

You're a Virginia resident and you did not apply to LUCOM? Did you also apply to every Virginia MD school, especially VCU and EVMS? If you truly want to be a doctor then you need to be smart about where you apply. Regional loyalty is a pretty big deal in medicine.

I can't recommend LUCOM. Here's why: I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. In the midst of the COVID19 pandemic, Liberty president Jerry Falwell Jr insisted that the campus stay open! This was in violation of state law.

From the wise gyngyn: Liberty is poorly regarded due to the history of intolerance of their founding fathers. This school's reputation for intolerance puts its grads at a disadvantage at many reputable residency programs.

 

[Kiyra]

I wouldn't retake the MCAT unless you know you can improve it by about 10 points. As others have said, definitely apply DO primarily. Most importantly, be confident in your applications and interviews, and have your applications reviewed. If you bring up your low MCAT in your app at all (which is often better to avoid), instead of explaining why you did badly, state how you are working to improve your test taking skills, as you're clearly smart enough based on GPA. Good luck, you definitely have a solid shot of getting in.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

I can't recommend LUCOM. Here's why: I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. In the midst of the COVID19 pandemic, Liberty president Jerry Falwell Jr insisted that the campus stay open! This was in violation of state law.

From the wise gyngyn: Liberty is poorly regarded due to the history of intolerance of their founding fathers. This school's reputation for intolerance puts its grads at a disadvantage at many reputable residency programs.

I'm a current student, and basically everything you just said is false. Their lifestyle rules for undergrads do not apply to medical students. Our graduates have placed at prestigious programs in prestigious specialties. Jerry Falwell did not reopen the campus or encourage students to come back; rather, he stated that international students who had no where to go were indeed allowed to stay in their dorms, if they so chose. LU followed the same exact protocols and sanctions as UVA, VCU, JMU, GMU and other Virginia state schools. I would know, I am literally here in Lynchburg and checking on the situation daily.

In the current climate of hyperpartisanship, I would ask you to keep your deep-seeded hatred for all things religious or conservative to yourself, and instead help the student achieve his or her goal of becoming a physician.

If you need help in gaining a proper education, once COVID is over, I would gladly host you or @gyngyn in my own home in Virginia and give you a tour of the pre-clinical education on campus and the clinical education at our local hospital system, in addition to walking you through our previously impressive match lists. I would then treat you to the finest local wineries and show you the downtown bars where students like to frequent. If you like, I can also show you the bedroom in which my girlfriend and I fornicate at will and with great pleasure. I am dead serious, and please direct message me for a time that you will be free, I would even split the travel costs with you - we do still have some true Southern hospitality left here in Virginia.

Alternatively, you can proceed to blindly spew vitriol and hatred toward something that you clearly know nothing about. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

 

[sw99]

ello guys,

So I'm a reapplicant this cycle. Long story short, I applied two years ago with a mediocre undergrad GPA and a low MCAT (498). I obviously did not receive any luck. Last year, I went and did a graduate level postbacc program and finished the program with a GPA of 3.71. I also improved my MCAT score to 506 (126/124/129/127). I know my CARS score killed me, but at this point, I'm not very keen on retaking the MCAT. I did submit apps to DO schools but so far, I have not received any II's. I did interview at the school where I did my postbacc, but I was rejected recently even though I passed the interview stage. I know the Caribbean is not the best choice (and I honestly would rather not go there), but I cannot wait another year and apply again.

As far as EC's go, I've worked as a scribe in the ER for over two years (have great letters form both DO and MD physicians), have worked in several labs, currently doing some clinical research as a volunteer and recently submitted a paper as a first author that is currently under review. I've also done non-clinical volunteering such as tutoring kids, working at a cancer center as a library volunteer, and a few other things when I was in a fraternity in undergrad (which was like 5 years ago).

This process has been devastating. I can understand not getting a lot of MD love, but the lack of DO invites has truly hurt me. To be fair, I did apply to DO schools a little late (late September and submitted secondaries by late October), but that was because I was juggling MD apps while cramming for the MCAT over the summer. I thought I would have a solid shot somewhere, but going into March, things don't look too good. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

I don't understand why you don't want to be a DO. MD and DO are equivalent degrees.

 

[sw99]

Hello guys,

So I'm a reapplicant this cycle. Long story short, I applied two years ago with a mediocre undergrad GPA and a low MCAT (498). I obviously did not receive any luck. Last year, I went and did a graduate level postbacc program and finished the program with a GPA of 3.71. I also improved my MCAT score to 506 (126/124/129/127). I know my CARS score killed me, but at this point, I'm not very keen on retaking the MCAT. I did submit apps to DO schools but so far, I have not received any II's. I did interview at the school where I did my postbacc, but I was rejected recently even though I passed the interview stage. I know the Caribbean is not the best choice (and I honestly would rather not go there), but I cannot wait another year and apply again.

As far as EC's go, I've worked as a scribe in the ER for over two years (have great letters form both DO and MD physicians), have worked in several labs, currently doing some clinical research as a volunteer and recently submitted a paper as a first author that is currently under review. I've also done non-clinical volunteering such as tutoring kids, working at a cancer center as a library volunteer, and a few other things when I was in a fraternity in undergrad (which was like 5 years ago).

This process has been devastating. I can understand not getting a lot of MD love, but the lack of DO invites has truly hurt me. To be fair, I did apply to DO schools a little late (late September and submitted secondaries by late October), but that was because I was juggling MD apps while cramming for the MCAT over the summer. I thought I would have a solid shot somewhere, but going into March, things don't look too good. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

My honest-to-God advice is to budget your time better. If you are meant to be a physician it will happen.

 

[okmaxd]

I wouldn't retake the MCAT unless you know you can improve it by about 10 points. As others have said, definitely apply DO primarily. Most importantly, be confident in your applications and interviews, and have your applications reviewed. If you bring up your low MCAT in your app at all (which is often better to avoid), instead of explaining why you did badly, state how you are working to improve your test taking skills, as you're clearly smart enough based on GPA. Good luck, you definitely have a solid shot of getting in.

Do you think I should submit DO apps next month and not mention that I'm retaking the MCAT later in the summer? Can I even do that? I know that my MD shot is slim to none with that kind of MCAT score so I would have to retake it if I were to apply MD again. My state schools have told me that if I can improve my MCAT score and the experiences I had this year would improve my chances significantly. I guess some schools really don't pay attention to update letters because when I told them about what I did this year, they were like "Oh, these are great things to add to your application!"

 

[okmaxd]

I don't understand why you don't want to be a DO. MD and DO are equivalent degrees.

I never said I'm not open to DO schools. I just did not get an interview. My only concern is with Step 1 becoming P/F. I just don't know how that will affect DO students. Still, if I were to get accepted to a DO school today, I would go there immediately. But since I will be going through the painful process of reapplying, I'm just trying to make sure I give myself the best shot by working on the tangibles such as MCAT etc.

 

[klebsiella1]

Do you think I should submit DO apps next month and not mention that I'm retaking the MCAT later in the summer? Can I even do that? I know that my MD shot is slim to none with that kind of MCAT score so I would have to retake it if I were to apply MD again. My state schools have told me that if I can improve my MCAT score and the experiences I had this year would improve my chances significantly. I guess some schools really don't pay attention to update letters because when I told them about what I did this year, they were like "Oh, these are great things to add to your application!"

To be frank, your MD chances are slim to none right off the bat given your GPA. I wouldn't spend any effort on trying to re-take the MCAT when your score is sufficient for DO schools. Instead, utilize that time towards volunteering, gaining more clinical experience, research, etc. Re-apply EARLY and apply broadly to way more schools than you did this past cycle and I can almost guarantee you will have an acceptance by Thanksgiving.

 

[okmaxd]

To be frank, your MD chances are slim to none right off the bat given your GPA. I wouldn't spend any effort on trying to re-take the MCAT when your score is sufficient for DO schools. Instead, utilize that time towards volunteering, gaining more clinical experience, research, etc. Re-apply EARLY and apply broadly to way more schools than you did this past cycle and I can almost guarantee you will have an acceptance by Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure about your comment about my GPA. I know several people who got into solid MD programs after doing a similar postbacc program or an SMP (with similar or in some cases lower GPA's) and they had lower GPA's in undergrad. Although I agree 100% that my MCAT score will certainly prevent me from getting interviews at almost all MD schools. I have been working on my nonclinical experiences though as that was my biggest drawback in my application according to several schools. I'm not very keen on retaking the MCAT so definitely sending my apps in early this time and will definitely be applying to more DO schools.