Whether or not to enter the DO match...

[DO chooser]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am currently a 3rd year DO student who is considering entering the MD match for ER. The questions I am confronted with so far concern how do I prepare myself for the clerkships/auditions, application materials, and interviews. I know its early for me, but since I recently found my calling, I want to know as much as I can as soon as I can. I did plenty of searches and still have some unanswered ?s. The specific ?s I have are:

1) Are there any programs known to be DO unfriendly, especially in the Chicago area?

2) Do above average COMLEX/GPA and a good work ethic guarantee a spot at an MD program? (Again, I will be applying mostly to Chicago programs)

3) Would it be better to do audition rotations at less competitive residencies (Ressurrection/County/MCW) with an inkling to match there, or an audition rotation at higher competitive residencies (Christ/UIC) and get great LORs for the less competitive residencies?

4)Is it important to be a member of EMRA/ACEP?

5)And the most unanswerable question, how do I decide whether or not to apply to DO residencies?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Mark Philips MS-3
Midwestern University

 

[DrQuinn]

1) Are there any programs known to be DO unfriendly, especially in the Chicago area?

2) Do above average COMLEX/GPA and a good work ethic guarantee a spot at an MD program? (Again, I will be applying mostly to Chicago programs)

3) Would it be better to do audition rotations at less competitive residencies (Ressurrection/County/MCW) with an inkling to match there, or an audition rotation at higher competitive residencies (Christ/UIC) and get great LORs for the less competitive residencies?

4)Is it important to be a member of EMRA/ACEP?

5)And the most unanswerable question, how do I decide whether or not to apply to DO residencies?

DO unfriendly programs in teh Chicago area? Can't answer that one, but put it this way... apply to them all... especially since you are limiting yourself to a specific geographic area.

2) NO. Nobody is guaranteed anything. Unfortunately as a DO, you are an underdog and instead of being "assumed innocent" like an MD, you have to without a shadow of a doubt prove yourself. You are behind the 8 ball.... If you limit yourself to a geographic area, you are sorely putting yourself at a disadvantage. I applied to FORTY programs, and got 20 interviews. If you apply to 6 programs in the chicago area, and still get a 50% interview rate (which is good), then you are limited to interviewing at only 3 programs.

3) Do an audition rotation where you want to do your residency. Do two of them. Maybe three.

4) Its always good to support your representative groups. You'll also get valuable information regarding emergency medicine, and be up to date on current topics. So, yes, its important.

5) Personal question. Check this out: here

Good luck!

Q

 

[Thousandth]

DO unfriendly programs in teh Chicago area? Can't answer that one, but put it this way... apply to them all... especially since you are limiting yourself to a specific geographic area.

2) NO. Nobody is guaranteed anything. Unfortunately as a DO, you are an underdog and instead of being "assumed innocent" like an MD, you have to without a shadow of a doubt prove yourself. You are behind the 8 ball.... If you limit yourself to a geographic area, you are sorely putting yourself at a disadvantage. I applied to FORTY programs, and got 20 interviews. If you apply to 6 programs in the chicago area, and still get a 50% interview rate (which is good), then you are limited to interviewing at only 3 programs.

3) Do an audition rotation where you want to do your residency. Do two of them. Maybe three.

4) Its always good to support your representative groups. You'll also get valuable information regarding emergency medicine, and be up to date on current topics. So, yes, its important.

5) Personal question. Check this out: here

Good luck!

Q

If it is not too personal, I would like to know if any of those 40 programs you applied to were DO? Also what was your reasoning about the AOA match? I, as well as many others are frustrated by the process because of our desire to rank DO/MD programs on the same list.

 

[kungfufishing]

Quinn is absolutely right. There ARE some DO unfriendly programs but it isnt always easy to figure out who is presently DO friendly or unfriendly(any DO residents now or in history? any DOs on faculty? A sign that says "we hate physician mixing"?). Look through programs on the internet. Apply everywhere you might want to go.
Obviously, lots of DOs match at ACGME programs - myself and a good proportion of this forum included - but you need to cast a wide net and make your app as shiny as you can. It seems like above average DO candidates (especially without USMLE) are regarded about like average/lower midpack MD candidates.
Rotate at places where you think you might want to go. Dont rotate at your bottom choices hoping to secure a backup spot.

 

[docflanny]

If you're interested in Chicago, you should also check out programs in Michigan and Indiana too. They won't be too far from Chicago. Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Sparrow, University of MI, and Indiana are all "DO-friendly". Peoria-Illinois' program director is also a DO.

 

[DrQuinn]

If it is not too personal, I would like to know if any of those 40 programs you applied to were DO? Also what was your reasoning about the AOA match? I, as well as many others are frustrated by the process because of our desire to rank DO/MD programs on the same list.

I didn't apply to any DO EM programs. I DID contact them and get their paper application, but when I saw 10 pages of application for each program, that had to be hand written or typed, I put them in the corner on the floor and never looked back. Thankfully i was lucky enough to get some interviews!

Did you check out that link I put in on my first post? That shoudl answer some questions.

Q

 

[Thousandth]

I didn't apply to any DO EM programs. I DID contact them and get their paper application, but when I saw 10 pages of application for each program, that had to be hand written or typed, I put them in the corner on the floor and never looked back. Thankfully i was lucky enough to get some interviews!

Did you check out that link I put in on my first post? That shoudl answer some questions.

Q

Yes I did read thru the link. It is still frustrating though. I want a DO program in my #1 slot but then 2-7 are MD just because of location then a few more DO slots further out of area. It seems like only combinding the match will really aleviate this.

 

[fuegorama]

It seems like only combinding the match will really aleviate this.

Yep. But it won't be happening w/ this administration! http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=166249

 

[joaquin13]

It is very frustrating for DO students looking at EM-allopathic vs osteopathic. It is especially difficult because if you do the DO match, you automatically cancel yourself out of the MD Match. There are some excellent DO programs-they just started one at Arrowhead in Southern Cal-not the best location in So Cal, but it is the San Bernadino County Hospital and a beautiful medical center. I think that program has excellent potential! Other DO programs that I have heard are good are Sparrow, Genesys, Doctors Hosp in Columbus, and St. Barnabas. Any input on any other programs? I think St. V's in Toledo might be dual-accredited, but maybe not.

 

[Thousandth]

Where did you see that Arrowhead has an EM program? Their site doesn't list it.

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Unfortunately as a DO, you are an underdog and instead of being "assumed innocent" like an MD, you have to without a shadow of a doubt prove yourself. You are behind the 8 ball....

This gives rise to the eternal words (uttered from the mouth of my MD PI) that still echo in my ears to this day, "think long and hard about that decision," as I told him I was headed off to an osteopathic school.

Funny how everyone says that the discrimination is in the minds of pre-meds that post on SDN and that no such discrimination exists in the real world.

Quinn, of the 40 MD programs you applied to, how many of these hospitals did you do your rotations at? Same question for the 20 interviews you rec'd. Additionally, I assume you applied throughtout the country, and I believe that you went to NSU, are you originally from Florida?

I know I have along way to go (OMS 1), but I am certain that I want to do EM and I have 2 geographical regions in mind: CA and FL. I figure my chances are good considering the number of programs in both of these states combined. I will, however, be applying (as Quinn put it) as a guilty applicant who needs to prove himself innocent.

I am just thankful I have a shot; an opportunity that would have otherwise gone unrealized had it been soley up to the MD schools.

 

[joaquin13]

JMC-California is extremely difficult to get an EM residency. I am a fairly good applicant, did well on boards, and did good on my EM rotations with good letters, and have been very involved in EM activities. I got 2 extra interviews in Cali other than the place I rotated at-and am from California. Still have not heard anything from any Florida programs, which I assume means rejection--which I am very bummed about! My advice would be to make sure you do an EM rotation in both Cali and Florida and go from there.

Regarding the Arrowhead program, they just started it this year, I believe. They have the first group of residents. I think it will be a very strong program, especially with the county environment, and from what I have heard about the patients and level of experience!

 

[Idiopathic]

Yes I did read thru the link. It is still frustrating though. I want a DO program in my #1 slot but then 2-7 are MD just because of location then a few more DO slots further out of area. It seems like only combinding the match will really aleviate this.

So apply DO match and rnk the #1 program. Assuming you dont get it, rank as many MD programs as you can. Worst case scenario is a general intern year somewhere, right?

 

[DrQuinn]

Quinn, of the 40 MD programs you applied to, how many of these hospitals did you do your rotations at? Same question for the 20 interviews you rec'd. Additionally, I assume you applied throughtout the country, and I believe that you went to NSU, are you originally from Florida?

I did two elective EM rotations, one up in Philadelphia and one at the Univ of MD. I got a LOR from the one in Philly. I also did a rotation at Bayfront Medical Center, a level 2 Trauma Center in the Tampa area. Out of the 20 places I received offers at, two of them were from the places I rotated at.

Basically if you have a #1 program, be it USF, UCLA, whatever... ROTATE there. If you are a good candidate, DO or MD, you will be seen as a "student who knows their stuff" or "a resident who won't give us any problems if he matched here." On paper, you have a lot more prejudice against you than if you are presetning a patient to one of the faculty and they see you put in a central line or something.

Q

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

I did two elective EM rotations, one up in Philadelphia and one at the Univ of MD. I got a LOR from the one in Philly. I also did a rotation at Bayfront Medical Center, a level 2 Trauma Center in the Tampa area. Out of the 20 places I received offers at, two of them were from the places I rotated at.

Basically if you have a #1 program, be it USF, UCLA, whatever... ROTATE there. If you are a good candidate, DO or MD, you will be seen as a "student who knows their stuff" or "a resident who won't give us any problems if he matched here." On paper, you have a lot more prejudice against you than if you are presetning a patient to one of the faculty and they see you put in a central line or something.

Q

Thank you for the reply and to the others that replied as well. Quinn, it would appear that TGH snatched you up despite no audition...hence the question, are you originally from FL? Maybe not that important, but I am just wondering how much weight is given to in-state applicants as well. CA is a competitive market, not sure how much so for FL. Can you address that issue. I just don't want to end up in Michigan or anywhere in the Midwest (I know, I know...should have thought about that before I applied DO). Having said that, I am certain that I will end up somewhere in Michigan or Kansas.

Also thank you for clarifying the discrimination thing, I understand the difference. While it is more or less just an "on-paper" thing, it should not be written off simply as benign.

 

[Thousandth]

So apply DO match and rnk the #1 program. Assuming you dont get it, rank as many MD programs as you can. Worst case scenario is a general intern year somewhere, right?

I know, that is what I am planning on. But I will end up ranking my overall #8 as #2 because it is a DO program. Let me ask though, if I rank only 1 program in the DO match and the worst happens and I don't match to that one or any of the MD programs I apply to, are there enough unfilled intern year slots out there as backups?

 

[DrQuinn]

Thank you for the reply and to the others that replied as well. Quinn, it would appear that TGH snatched you up despite no audition...hence the question, are you originally from FL? Maybe not that important, but I am just wondering how much weight is given to in-state applicants as well. CA is a competitive market, not sure how much so for FL. Can you address that issue. I just don't want to end up in Michigan or anywhere in the Midwest (I know, I know...should have thought about that before I applied DO). Having said that, I am certain that I will end up somewhere in Michigan or Kansas.

Also thank you for clarifying the discrimination thing, I understand the difference. While it is more or less just an "on-paper" thing, it should not be written off simply as benign.

I'm not from Florida. Originally from the DC area, and plan to go back. I do have some ties to the Tampa area, my parents are retired here, so I did my 3rd and 4th year electives at a DO hospital in Clearwater. That may have helped, but the BIGGEST help to ANYONE's application in EM is to do an audition rotation at the place you want to go to.

Q

 

[NurseyK]

Speaking of audition rotations -- some quick advice?

I'm currently in the middle of my 2nd of 3 (allo) ED audition rotations for 2006 Match (doing Osteo Internship for 2005 -- please no flames here, my decision has already been made, Tnks 🙂 ). I really like it here. I mean...well...they "offered" (as legally as they can) and I'm ready to say "yes" (as legally as I can). My first "audition" wasn't bad, but I didn't feel the luv like I do here. Dilemma: I can't cancel my next rotation that starts next month, plus I want to check the next place out too. Who knows? Maybe I'll like it even more there...?....

Sooo, bottom line -- how can I get across that, unless I walk into this next hospital and completely fall in luv, I want to come here for residency? I don't want to blow smoke up anyone's a$$ b/c in the long run I believe it would damage my credibility. I'm thinking that it's easier to just tell the truth....no?

Kat