Which Acceptance to Choose?

[Jumbles]

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I have recently been accepted to four schools, each having their own set of pros and cons. I know it is my decision to make, but I'd like to hear the opinions of others who may have been in a similar situation at one time or another. I know I'm missing things, so please share your thoughts.

Note: I am grateful for and humbled by every acceptance I received, and I realize that this is a *good* problem to be having. These are MY opinions about the schools (n=1), and should not be interpreted as fact. I could be wrong about some of these things, so correction would be appreciated. I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk who doesn't realize that.

TouroCOM NY : Pros - Loved the "realness" of this school. The students and faculty and administration were so open and honest; I didn't feel like anything was being hidden. The most beautiful OMM lab that I saw. Harlem is awesome, would love to get involved with the community. Close to family/friends. Smaller class size. Might want to stay in New York (state) for residency. Cons - Majority of recorded lectures. Cost of living per square foot in Manhattan is absurd. Some growing pains which could give me anxiety. Having to pay extra to utilize the Sim-patients.

LECOM Erie (PBL) : Pros - Extremely low cost of attendance. PBL would be nice. Amazing fitness center. Strong board passing rates. Ability to set-up clinical rotations on your own. Cons - Huge class size. Some disorganization on the part of admissions. Erie, PA is snowy and sort of boring.

CCOM : Pros - Beautiful campus/facilities in Chicagoland area, with opportunity to live on campus. Excellent array of clinical rotation sites. Good research opportunities. Students, faculty, and admin were extremely friendly and welcoming. 84% of students get into first or second residency choice (Source)... that's awesome. Work-study opportunities in community service positions. Growing school with solid reputation/alumni network.. Cons - Cost of attendance (2x the cost of LECOM). Further from family/friends. No recorded lectures.

NYCOM : Pros - DPC option for curriculum. Facilities were decent, Standardized Patient Rooms and Sim-patients were nice. Decent rotations, apparently good board scores. High percentage of students specialize (haven't verified this). Cons - Higher cost of attendance. Some negative students encountered on interview day. Living on on Long Island. Higher than average attrition rate/strict failure policy.

I know that my success is mostly dependent on how hard I work, and I will be successful anywhere... but which school is going to make that easier for me? Thanks in advance for any insight!👍

 

[ManBroDude]

I only interviewed at TouroNY, so I can only speak about it. I echo your sentiments exactly. If I was from the east coast and my family was near, it would be my #1.

Here's a thread about LECOM's disadvantages: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=872907

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I'd pick Touro NYC or CCOM. Sounds like you like the "realness" of city life. Money can't replace experience remember that. Don't be scared of any debt, you'll make it all back easily.

 

[scotchtapetest]

I have recently been accepted to four schools, each having their own set of pros and cons. I know it is my decision to make, but I'd like to hear the opinions of others who may have been in a similar situation at one time or another. I know I'm missing things, so please share your thoughts.

Note: I am grateful for and humbled by every acceptance I received, and I realize that this is a *good* problem to be having. These are MY opinions about the schools (n=1), and should not be interpreted as fact. I could be wrong about some of these things, so correction would be appreciated. I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk who doesn't realize that.

TouroCOM NY : Pros - Loved the "realness" of this school. The students and faculty and administration were so open and honest; I didn't feel like anything was being hidden. The most beautiful OMM lab that I saw. Harlem is awesome, would love to get involved with the community. Close to family/friends. Smaller class size. Might want to stay in New York (state) for residency. Cons - Majority of recorded lectures. Cost of living per square foot in Manhattan is absurd. Some growing pains which could give me anxiety. Having to pay extra to utilize the Sim-patients.

LECOM Erie (PBL) : Pros - Extremely low cost of attendance. PBL would be nice. Amazing fitness center. Strong board passing rates. Ability to set-up clinical rotations on your own. Cons - Huge class size. Some disorganization on the part of admissions. Erie, PA is snowy and sort of boring.

CCOM : Pros - Beautiful campus/facilities in Chicagoland area, with opportunity to live on campus. Excellent array of clinical rotation sites. Good research opportunities. Students, faculty, and admin were extremely friendly and welcoming. 84% of students get into first or second residency choice (Source)... that's awesome. Work-study opportunities in community service positions. Growing school with solid reputation/alumni network.. Cons - Cost of attendance (2x the cost of LECOM). Further from family/friends. No recorded lectures.

NYCOM : Pros - DPC option for curriculum. Facilities were decent, Standardized Patient Rooms and Sim-patients were nice. Decent rotations, apparently good board scores. High percentage of students specialize (haven't verified this). Cons - Higher cost of attendance. Some negative students encountered on interview day. Living on on Long Island. Higher than average attrition rate/strict failure policy.

I know that my success is mostly dependent on how hard I work, and I will be successful anywhere... but which school is going to make that easier for me? Thanks in advance for any insight!👍

Unless you are not comfortable being away from family and friends go to CCOM. Seems like you liked it a lot as well. It is one of the best DO schools. NYCOM is also a great school but their class size is crazy and although most of their students are great some of them are really iffy (IMO).

 

[DocEspana]

Sounds like touro is a good fit for what you like to do (esp since you seem to be preferential to pbl and touro appears to be moving closer to that). Ccom is an excellent school too. Pick between them.

 

[Metsa23]

Can someone elaborate further on Touro's OMM lab?

I wasn't able to see it on my interview tour because there was a class or something going on.. and the tour guide only let us see the lecture hall for 10 seconds.

Can someone please comment on these two things

Thanks.

 

[Jumbles]

Thanks for the responses and for those who have participated in the poll thus far. It's good to hear from people who can also compare the schools - my family (and friends) just give me the "Ooooh, Chicago is a nice city" or "Ehhhhh... I don't know about Harlem", but they haven't seen it so it's hard to weigh their advice (for the record, I was terrified of Harlem until I got there... and then I was sold).

I'd pick Touro NYC or CCOM. Sounds like you like the "realness" of city life. Money can't replace experience remember that. Don't be scared of any debt, you'll make it all back easily.

I think it was somewhere on here where I read, "Don't fear the debt; manage it". That's sort of my mantra. Anyway, these two were definitely my favorite two schools, but it's hard to overlook $100K in savings at Erie.

NYCOM is also a great school but their class size is crazy and although most of their students are great some of them are really iffy (IMO).

I actually connected really well with one of the students who gave the tour - but then there were some guys (probably joking around, but I can't be 100% sure) who were saying things like, "Should we tell them not to come here because it sucks?"

I understand the stress of medical school, and I've probably said similar things when I saw tours being given at my undergrad institution, but it just was the only place where I overheard something like that. I wouldn't cross it off the list on this alone, though.

Sounds like touro is a good fit for what you like to do (esp since you seem to be preferential to pbl and touro appears to be moving closer to that). Ccom is an excellent school too. Pick between them.

These two have me torn. I already have the deposit down at Touro, and I was ecstatic for them (my first acceptance). I didn't even think I'd get an interview at Chicago, let alone be accepted. Might have to come back to Touro for another look before I decide.

Can someone elaborate further on Touro's OMM lab?

Let's see how well my memory serves me (someone can correct me if I'm mixing things up). It had tables for students to lay on spaced out around the room (not in rows like all of the other schools I interviewed at), but on different levels so that everyone would be able to see the instructor at the front of the room. Also, there were cameras and flat-screen TVs around the room for recording both the instructor's techniques and your own techniques (as a student practicing in lab), so that you could later review and compare it. I remember being impressed with how spacious it was, the amount of technology in the room, and how "new" it looked.

 

[DocEspana]

Let's see how well my memory serves me (someone can correct me if I'm mixing things up). It had tables for students to lay on spaced out around the room (not in rows like all of the other schools I interviewed at), but on different levels so that everyone would be able to see the instructor at the front of the room. Also, there were cameras and flat-screen TVs around the room for recording both the instructor's techniques and your own techniques (as a student practicing in lab), so that you could later review and compare it. I remember being impressed with how spacious it was, the amount of technology in the room, and how "new" it looked.

Sounds about right.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I think it was somewhere on here where I read, "Don't fear the debt; manage it". That's sort of my mantra. Anyway, these two were definitely my favorite two schools, but it's hard to overlook $100K in savings at Erie.

LOL yeah I said that. I truly mean that, you only live once and as a doctor you will be fine paying off any sort of loans/debt. Personally, unless my family lived very close to Erie, I'd like to spend my 20's in a lively, major city. I'd limit it down to two schools, talk to a few of the students from each school, and see what's best for you. All are great options. The old saying is true, once you get into medical school, everything is a choice between good and better.

 

[help2]

I agree that it seems like it'll ultimately come down to Touro and CCOM for you. I personally liked NYCOM a lot, and, if I ended up there, I would not live in Long Island (probably Astoria or Brooklyn and commute). The DPC was a huge pull for me. Plus, you still have the benefit of being in NY and well situated for NY residencies. That's my plug for them.

The online lectures at Touro were a huge drawback for me. You don't even have the option to attend a lecture. And, it's not at all like PBL because you are not presented with problems or cases to solve, but just with a ton of med school materials (and you'd spend a LOT of time staring at a computer screen). I also didn't like how strict they were about where you do rotations- there is very little flexibility. Keep in mind though, that these were just my opinions and that many others did not feel this way.

I didn't get to visit CCOM and didn't apply to LECOM. I've heard amazing things about CCOM though, and I'd say if you don't mind being in Chicago, go there.

Ultimately whatever you choose will probably statistically change your prospects for residency locations. If CCOM has a flexible rotation schedule, you might be able to set some up in NY (though I'm not sure how difficult this will be).

Good luck with your decision!

 

[OhioG]

I would always say go to the school that provides the best student experience. Alot of LECOM students hate it there. If you are really worried about money, there are so many ways to pay back your loans. If you do a certain thing where you work at a NP place for 10 years (including residency and potential fellowship) whatever amount you dont pay back at the end of 10 years is forgiven.

 

[Didierdrogba]

seriously, go to LECOM, it's established and cheap. You'll thank yourself when you see your colleagues paying off their student loans years down the line.

 

[DocEspana]

seriously, go to LECOM, it's established and cheap. You'll thank yourself when you see your colleagues paying off their student loans years down the line.

Coming back from dc right now where it was pretty much proved that once your debt crosses 115,000 there is no realistic way to pay it back in less than 8 years and there is zero reason to ever take over 10 as 250,000 can easily be paid off in 10. This works for everyone from neurosirgeons to FP.

The "this school is cheaper. It'll be paid off faster" argument is very weak and deeply flawed, despite making sense in a "but this is bigger than that" simple minded comparison. Evrn thr cheapest DO school hits the threshold for long term repayment and once your there, the difference is neglible lifestyle and timeframe wise. Neither level of debt can be paid against at all on a resident salary, and so 100% of the debt repayment for med studets without sugar mommas and daddys is done after residency, when a 7 olyear repayment schedule is no big deal for a FP, and a 4 or 5 year repayment is equally easy for a surgeon or specialist, whether its 100 grand or 200. It becomes a nuisance not a serious issue.

 

[ManBroDude]

Not to mention you'd be treated like 3rd graders and forced to have saturday "detention" for not attending class if you went to LECOM.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Not to mention you'd be treated like 3rd graders and forced to have saturday "detention" for not attending class if you went to LECOM.

and i don't dress like a fool, but i sure as hell don't go to class in "business attire." I can understand on why dressing professional could make sense, but pass.

And I know my learning style and PBL seems like a terrible idea to me. Many love it, but I know I wouldn't.

 

[Postal]

Not to mention you'd be treated like 3rd graders and forced to have saturday "detention" for not attending class if you went to LECOM.

really?

 

[Druggernaut]

Neither level of debt can be paid against at all on a resident salary, and so 100% of the debt repayment for med studets without sugar mommas and daddys is done after residency, when a 7 olyear repayment schedule is no big deal for a FP, and a 4 or 5 year repayment is equally easy for a surgeon or specialist, whether its 100 grand or 200. It becomes a nuisance not a serious issue.

You can pay it off either way, but I don't see how you can call it a "nuisance." After interest, that $100K is enough to buy a small house in some parts of the country, or a big down payment on a place that's palatial. Ask anyone if they'd like to have an extra $25-30K a year for the first few after residency and let us know what they say. And it's not $115K to $250K, it's more along the lines of $250K to $350-400K.

Every physician but one that I knew prior to medical school told me to go wherever was cheapest (the single dissenter said to go wherever was most fun ). I don't know that I'd automatically go to the least expensive school, but I'm mostly happy about my decision to save myself the $100K by going to LECOM instead of some of my other offers.

 

[Back 5]

How long are you realistically spending in one place? 2 years? Years 3-4 are offsite rotations?

 

[421822]

Coming back from dc right now where it was pretty much proved that once your debt crosses 115,000 there is no realistic way to pay it back in less than 8 years and there is zero reason to ever take over 10 as 250,000 can easily be paid off in 10. This works for everyone from neurosirgeons to FP.

The "this school is cheaper. It'll be paid off faster" argument is very weak and deeply flawed, despite making sense in a "but this is bigger than that" simple minded comparison. Evrn thr cheapest DO school hits the threshold for long term repayment and once your there, the difference is neglible lifestyle and timeframe wise. Neither level of debt can be paid against at all on a resident salary, and so 100% of the debt repayment for med studets without sugar mommas and daddys is done after residency, when a 7 olyear repayment schedule is no big deal for a FP, and a 4 or 5 year repayment is equally easy for a surgeon or specialist, whether its 100 grand or 200. It becomes a nuisance not a serious issue.

Huh? You sound like a politician trying to convince people that debt doesn't matter.

 

[retro]

Sounds like touro is a good fit for what you like to do (esp since you seem to be preferential to pbl and touro appears to be moving closer to that). Ccom is an excellent school too. Pick between them.

Does this mean that touro is focusing less on the lecture based learning now? I'm okay with a little bit of class discussion, but too much would be a burden since I'm so used to lecture based learning...

 

[DocEspana]

Huh? You sound like a politician trying to convince people that debt doesn't matter.

Quite the opposite. I'm arguing against the false idea that $120,000 is any less onorus than $250,000. It isn't. $120,000 in debt is the point where the average residents salary ($47,000) minus a *very* modest expenditures (aka $1,000 for housing + utilities + cable. Only $40 for food) is no longer is enough to pay off the monthly interest. At $120,000.01 (maybe not exactly to the cent) an average resident loses money every month and cannot afford to even pay off the interest each month. That exact fact was utilized in washington DC just today to lobby for further debt reduction as all but our cheapest of schools pass the threshold of unsustainable debt in residency.

Similarly, every physician organization, loan organization, and government body out there pretty much states that they expect you to pay off your full debt by your 10th year after graduation (unless you're doing the debt forgiveness program, at which point you pay 10% of your salary every year for 20 years. But thats a terrible thing to do unless you are insanely indebted before med school even begins). And there are physician self-reports abound that basically all state that paying out 25K a year for a primary care (the average) or 35K a year for a surgeon (again the average) is no big deal if it gets their debt behind them in 7 or 5 years. Even if you take the two complete extremes of indebtedness the difference is adding or subtracting 7-10K per year based on what field you're going into. When both extremes of training are saying 25-35K is acceptable, you of course would prefer 18K a year from LECOM, but you wont complain when its 35K a year from "mostexpensiveCOM" since thats still only a chunk of what you make and can be eliminated in a few years while STILL clearing over 100K a year on a FP salary.

When you're still clearing over 100K a year and paying off massive chunks of your debt rapidly AND neither amount of debt will be low enough to make a single penny of a dent prior to finishing residency.... well then what does it matter what your debt is (if its reasonable). I cannot argue that the lowest and the highest have a >$100K difference in debt. But I can tell you that $100K is not so much when you are breaking it over 5-7 years where your making, even in the lowest paying field of peds, $135K a year on average. Its not that that sum of money wouldnt be awesome to still have any invest or just turn itno a swimming pool of gold coins, but its that *its not that relevant* in the end. And its not the big deal everyone makes it out to be when you look at the absolute level of debt at both extremes and the absolute influx of wealth for any specialty.

 

[help2]

Does this mean that touro is focusing less on the lecture based learning now? I'm okay with a little bit of class discussion, but too much would be a burden since I'm so used to lecture based learning...

No, it's not at all. Touro is all lecture based, but all of the lectures are on itunes. Moving from in class lectures to exclusively online lectures is definitely not even close to PBL.

 

[DocEspana]

No, it's not at all. Touro is all lecture based, but all of the lectures are on itunes. Moving from in class lectures to exclusively online lectures is definitely not even close to PBL.

I wouldnt be so close to say that. Youre focusing too much on the strict problem-based part of PBL (yea, i know... seems like an important part). I was just referring to the fact that most people go to PBL because it is moderately more self-driven and collaborative. The sense of mixing independence with required learning (as opposed to straight didactics) is what appears to draw most people in.

I say appears because I would never chose a PBL curriculum, for my own reasons. So Im a bad judge of what people actually feel. Im just trying to summarize what i tend to read hear.

And yea, I only said "moving closer" because its still just a deeply modified version of the general sit down didactics I had. but even that modified version is trending closer to what people appreciated (at least initially from what I see) in PBL. It's not there yet and except for one class that is strictly PBL, the classes are most high yield review rather than true problem based from what I hear.