Which are the best and worst vet schools to attend in academics and student supp

[vettobe2016]

Hi Everyone,

I just want to know which schools rank low on poor quality care to students(ex. treating them like trash) and don't value keeping their students and will throw them out like a Freshman in college taking a weeding out course? Which ones are more welcoming to students? If you can, rank the best ones and the worst ones so future pre-vet students don't make the same mistakes. Veterinary school is extremely hard due to the quantity of information you have to learn so all of us need to make the right decisions on where we apply. All the schools are different. Rank the AVMA overseas schools too. If you could go anywhere, where would it be?

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[shortnsweet]

Hi Everyone,

I just want to know which schools rank low on poor quality care to students(ex. treating them like trash) and don't value keeping their students and will throw them out like a Freshman in college taking a weeding out course? Which ones are more welcoming to students? If you can, rank the best ones and the worst ones so future pre-vet students don't make the same mistakes. Veterinary school is extremely hard due to the quantity of information you have to learn so all of us need to make the right decisions on where we apply. All the schools are different. Rank the AVMA overseas schools too. If you could go anywhere, where would it be?

Seeing as there aren't that many schools to begin with, I think that is pretty hard to do. Vet school isn't like college---you go where you get in--and you make the most of your education, so you can come out a quality vet. Everyone is going to have a pro and con list of their own school, but we can't really discuss schools we don't attend. I've never heard of a school treating their students like trash. Also, most AVMA accredited schools are extremely difficult to get into, but once there, the schools try and help you succeed, they wouldn't have accepted you otherwise.

 

[vettobe2016]

You have to go where you know you will succeed. Otherwise, you take loans for nothing. If you apply to a bunch and find out the only one you've been accepted to is not the right match for you, then you need to consider applying again. I used to believe that you go wherever you get in, but from other people's experiences, you need to interview the schools as much as they interview you. I know of at least one school who treats their students like dirt to the point where people were dropping out.

The purpose of this thread is to help pre-veterinary students know what they are getting into before they start so they do not have any surprises. Just remember that just because you get into a vet school, doesn't mean you will graduate as a vet from that school. That is just a myth at this point. There are schools that don't give the students the time of day and do not help them get through. Go to a veterinary school that cares about you as much as you care about going there and becoming a vet.

 

[Whyevernot55]

There are schools that don't give the students the time of day and do not help them get through.

If you know what those schools are and you're concerned about pre-vets going to a school that is right for them (and you think they can't figure that out on their own), why not just share?

 

[ZebraFinch]

If you apply to a bunch and find out the only one you've been accepted to is not the right match for you, then you need to consider applying again.

That's why you should do your research ahead of time. Know which schools you're compatible with before you apply so that you don't end up in that situation. Only apply to those you know you'll go to if you're accepted. Declining a vet school admission (at least from what I've heard) can be a detriment when you apply again. Though I have heard of some situations where someone is accepted to a school and only found out after visiting/interviewing that it's not right for them, so you can't totally prevent that situation.

I think there are better ways to evaluate schools than "treat like dirt" and "don't treat like dirt", as you say. I think it would be better for people to take a look at the multitude of threads available here on each school and get their information from those, not a biased list of people's opinions. It's difficult for someone to rank all the vet schools since most people don't apply to all schools, and thus can't compare them all.

The whole purpose of this forum is to help pre-veterinary students know what they are getting into before they start, so I think having a single thread for that purpose is sort of pointless. 😉

 

[nyanko]

The inherent problem with this is that perception is reality, and everybody's perception is different because it's so completely relative. A proactive person is going to view such things differently than a more passive type. I know plenty of people who complained that at my undergrad (a rapidly growing institution with student enrollment in the top 10 in the US) they felt like a number, yet this was not my experience at all. I was able to be an undergrad TA, do independent research and my professors (even in my 500-person introduction courses) knew who I was.

This is not high school (and undergrad in a lot of cases in this country) where your hand is held through everything. I have never heard of a vet school that just plain doesn't have support structures that you can utilize if necessary. Maybe it takes a little digging to find them, or maybe you have to be the one to approach faculty or staff, but you're an adult and it should be assumed that if you're in professional school, you can do such things for yourself.

It really sounds like you're looking for some student to come along and confirm some pre-existing notion you have about a certain school. If that's the case, why don't you just come out and ask about that school in particular? If you don't feel comfortable doing that, why would you expect a current student to feel comfortable with it? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[vettobe2016]

Because I don't know. I only know of one. I've had a lot of friends go to different vet schools and some have positive things to say, some say they were kicked out without any mercy and tons of loans. Going to veterinary school now is different than it was in my parents generation. If pre-vets are optimistic about every school, they may pay a life changing price for not looking into the school more because they still believe every school will do whatever it takes to keep you in and graduate on time.

 

[nyanko]

If pre-vets are optimistic about every school, they may pay a life changing price for not looking into the school more because they still believe every school will do whatever it takes to keep you in and graduate on time.

If anybody believes that, well you know what they say about a bridge to sell 'em.

Nevertheless, it doesn't look good for a school to have a low retention rate either. But there has to be a balance between helping students succeed when they're struggling and graduating DOCTORS who have never had to think for themselves.

 

[vettobe2016]

It looks like this thread is going nowhere. It's very important to do research before you attend a school. I know many people who have made this mistake. You do not have to be the one who gets treated poorly to know that something may be going on. If you're in a class and 8 people do not follow you into the 2nd year, you may suspect a problem. For instance, you can get info from your veterinarian as well. My vet told me CSU doesn't treat th students well and he has no good memories of the place, even though he's an alumni. However, he has heard nothing but wonderful things about Washington. A friend of mine had to take a medical withdrawal from another vet school and said she has the option to come back this year, but won't, because she did not like how they treated the students there, so she's applying elsewhere. It is extremely difficult sometimes to find out which school would be your best match, so any useful information is greatly appreciated. There's not a lot of information from a students perspective out there. Yes, all of these are opinions, but what you need to look for is "are there a lot of students saying things that are consistent."

You do have to think for yourself as an adult and study very hard, but it also helps to know what to expect and what they expect out of you. Every school is different. Sometimes students don't learn this until they go through the experience themselves. If you go to one vet school, you can only speak for that school. And you're not a doctor until you pass the boards. If you learned the information you needed to learn to become a vet, you will pass the boards. There is a percentage of people who do not pass the boards.

 

[Whyevernot55]

Yup, cause it's pointless.

We're all big kids here, and I think that most of the people actually being accepted to vet schools are smart enough to do their research. And smart enough to be able to handle most of the things thrown at them. No one is naive enough to expect to have their hand held through graduate school, because then the school would be graduating veterinarians with no ability to think for themselves.

 

[twelvetigers]

For every person that hates a school, there will be another person that loved it. It's going to be different for everyone! I don't think I know of a single U.S. school that a lot of current students dislike attending, and we have a pretty good representation of all the U.S. schools here.

If you're just here to try and get us to pooh-pooh some school, you're wasting your time.

We all know that we should research the schools that we plan to apply to, and we do. We appreciate the reminder, though.

 

[nyanko]

There actually is a lot of information from students' perspectives on this very forum already.

Here's a thread asking about how everyone is doing in the class of 2013.

Here's one about choosing schools to apply to.

Those are just on the first 4 pages of the pre-vet forum. There are threads on the Veterinary forum and of course the school specific threads and the sticky thread at the top of the forum talking about choosing which schools to apply to and a million this school vs that school and list pros and cons threads...

It all goes back to being able to find this kind of information for yourself.

 

[StartingoverVet]

It looks like this thread is going nowhere. It's very important to do research before you attend a school. I know many people who have made this mistake. You do not have to be the one who gets treated poorly to know that something may be going on. If you're in a class and 8 people do not follow you into the 2nd year, you may suspect a problem. For instance, you can get info from your veterinarian as well. My vet told me CSU doesn't treat th students well and he has no good memories of the place, even though he's an alumni. However, he has heard nothing but wonderful things about Washington. A friend of mine had to take a medical withdrawal from another vet school and said she has the option to come back this year, but won't, because she did not like how they treated the students there, so she's applying elsewhere. It is extremely difficult sometimes to find out which school would be your best match, so any useful information is greatly appreciated. There's not a lot of information from a students perspective out there. Yes, all of these are opinions, but what you need to look for is "are there a lot of students saying things that are consistent."

You do have to think for yourself as an adult and study very hard, but it also helps to know what to expect and what they expect out of you. Every school is different. Sometimes students don't learn this until they go through the experience themselves. If you go to one vet school, you can only speak for that school. And you're not a doctor until you pass the boards. If you learned the information you needed to learn to become a vet, you will pass the boards. There is a percentage of people who do not pass the boards.

Well, we all know how accurate anecdotal evidence. To be interested in science you have to do a little better than that. Short of knowing someone who has attended more than one school, then those snippets of sound bites amount to absolutely nothing.

For those who are curious about attrition rates I have compiled the following data. Please note that if the class size has been changing, then the % will be slightly off but for our purposes it should be good enough..

Schoolc/o 2008-11 attrition 2009 class sizeA ttrition rate (based on 2009 class size *4)
tus14605.8%umo15804.7%lsu6841.8%isu101481.7%uga6961.6%wes6971.5%tuf5821.5%ksu61081.4%tamu71321.3%mcsu4801.3%okl4821.2%pur3691.1%wsu4971.0%ore2501.0%msu41090.9%csu41340.7%penn41340.7%osu41400.7%mis2800.6%wis2800.6%min2920.5%aub2940.5%tenn2960.5%vmr1900.3%ill11200.2%ucd11310.2%cor0860.0%fla0880.0%

There are 2 outliers there for what it is worth. (Tuskegee and U of Missouri)

all data from 2009 edition of VMSAR

File attached for those who want to view it. Obviously copying it in didn't work too well.

 

[shortnsweet]

What exactly are you trying to get us to say here?? Every school has its strong points. Some have stronger departments. And i'm sorry if some of your friends got kicked out of vet school...but the attrition rates for AVMA schools kind of speak for themselves...This forum is full of students from all different schools, and we all support each other---there's no need to school bash.

 

[TurtleLover]

and attrition rates are all relative. I know my class lost some people this year, but most were due to health/family reasons and not grades. however we did lose 1 person to grades who thought she knew everything and didn't need to attend class or study...needless to say she failed out halfway through the first semester and because of her attitude, it makes sense that they weren't going to go out of their way to keep her in the program.

 

[breenie]

and attrition rates are all relative. I know my class lost some people this year, but most were due to health/family reasons and not grades. however we did lose 1 person to grades who thought she knew everything and didn't need to attend class or study...needless to say she failed out halfway through the first semester and because of her attitude, it makes sense that they weren't going to go out of their way to keep her in the program.

This is an important example. A lot of schools lose students for non-academic reasons. Illness, family, money, pregnancy, injury, etc. So, just because 8 students dropped from a class might not be a very good indicator of overall quality or what sort of support services the school offers

 

[StartingoverVet]

This is an important example. A lot of schools lose students for non-academic reasons. Illness, family, money, pregnancy, injury, etc. So, just because 8 students dropped from a class might not be a very good indicator of overall quality or what sort of support services the school offers

True. If you really need to see, look at the VMSAR and you can see the breakout of low grades vs other. 80/121 were due to low grades in last year's vmsar.

 

[zeebra44]

True. If you really need to see, look at the VMSAR and you can see the breakout of low grades vs other. 80/121 were due to low grades in last year's vmsar.

And in my opinion, low grades do not reflect the quality of the school..they reflect the quality of the student. There are plenty of resources available if a student needs help or doesn't understand the material. If a student is not willing to put in the effort, then I don't think they deserve to be there in the first place...or they seriously need to reconsider their career options. That doesn't mean the SCHOOL is lacking in any way, or other students wouldn't find it easy to be so successful there. To prove my point: according to the VMSAR stats you posted, Mizzou has a high attrition rate, but the NAVLE pass rates for 2010 and 2009 were 100%, 98% in 2008.

 

[cuitlamiztli]

And in my opinion, low grades do not reflect the quality of the school..they reflect the quality of the student. There are plenty of resources available if a student needs help or doesn't understand the material. If a student is not willing to put in the effort, then I don't think they deserve to be there in the first place...or they seriously need to reconsider their career options. That doesn't mean the SCHOOL is lacking in any way, or other students wouldn't find it easy to be so successful there.

Low grades don't necessarily indicate that a student is "poor quality" and/or doesn't understand the material, or is not putting in the effort to be successful. Grades can be impacted by various stressors--anything from family to car trouble or "bigger" exams the same week. Or an exam that covers material the instructor said was unimportant and you wouldn't be tested on. Or even an instructor who hates your class.

There are intelligent, highly motivated people in my class who struggled with grades last year. Even after seeking help. And you know what? Some of those C students will probably be better veterinarians than some of the A students.

 

[zeebra44]

Low grades don't necessarily indicate that a student is "poor quality" and/or doesn't understand the material, or is not putting in the effort to be successful. Grades can be impacted by various stressors--anything from family to car trouble or "bigger" exams the same week. Or an exam that covers material the instructor said was unimportant and you wouldn't be tested on. Or even an instructor who hates your class.

There are intelligent, highly motivated people in my class who struggled with grades last year. Even after seeking help. And you know what? Some of those C students will probably be better veterinarians than some of the A students.

I'm talking about a student that's continually doing poorly. Maybe it IS best for them to reevaluate their situation. If that means dropping out of the professional program, then that's what needs to be done, but that doesn't mean the SCHOOL is necessarily the problem. I saw a couple of friends change their mind about the pre-vet track in undergrad because they simply weren't doing well in their science/math prerequisites. It's okay to acknowledge that something may not be a good fit. I don't mean to be stepping on anyone's toes, but a school shouldn't be labeled less than par because of an attrition rate. Because as both you and Turtlelover have pointed out, it's completely relative.

 

[cuitlamiztli]

I'm talking about a student that's continually doing poorly.

How are you defining poorly? B's? C's? D's? F's? I don't want to assume one over the other but it does make a difference.

It's okay to acknowledge that something may not be a good fit... a school shouldn't be labeled less than par because of an attrition rate.

And I completely agree with you here. What I don't agree with is the idea that a student should be judged on the basis of grades alone and told that they need to re-evaluate their career options and drop out of the program if they are "doing poorly".

 

[teatime]

How are you defining poorly? B's? C's? D's? F's? I don't want to assume one over the other but it does make a difference.

And I completely agree with you here. What I don't agree with is the idea that a student should be judged on the basis of grades alone and told that they need to re-evaluate their career options and drop out of the program if they are "doing poorly".

While I agree that there is a difference between B's and F's and that judging someone on the basis of grades alone is unfair, I have to say that vet med is a science based curriculum where it's important that the concepts can be understood clearly by the student and applied to real life situations. However, it can also be said that understanding does not always equal doing great gradewise.

I'm not really sure what point I was trying to make... just throwing in my 2 cents.

 

[Pandacinny]

I'd like to toss in the comment that it's REALLY easy for someone not yet in vet school to talk about how undeserving students with consistent "low grades" are...

I don't think people who fail their way through school should be vets, but good god is it ABSOLUTELY possible to give your all, work super hard, learn a lot, and STILL get C's in vet school.

 

[zeebra44]

I never said that C's were horrible! I'm talking low enough grades/poor enough performance to the point where you'd even have to consider dropping out. And you're right, I haven't experienced it yet, so I can't really judge. I just know that, when I do (hopefully) graduate, I'm going to be responsible for the lives of animals, and I want to make sure that I am as fully prepared as possible...which kind of brings the original topic of the thread back into play, I picked a program that matched what I wanted without worrying about attrition rates/rankings.

 

[dyachei]

I'd like to toss in the comment that it's REALLY easy for someone not yet in vet school to talk about how undeserving students with consistent "low grades" are...

I don't think people who fail their way through school should be vets, but good god is it ABSOLUTELY possible to give your all, work super hard, learn a lot, and STILL get C's in vet school.

This. It may not be difficult material to understand, but when you have 7 or 8 classes throwing tons of information at you, its hard to remember it all for a test. And I know people that did terribly grade-wise but are rocking clinics. I also know people who got all As who aren't doing so well in their clinical year. Different people are good at different things and there are many factors that determine whether or not you'll make a good vet. I think grades have too many variables to base "good vet"-ness off of (some of them personal issues, some of them school issues).

 

[cuitlamiztli]

I'm talking low enough grades/poor enough performance to the point where you'd even have to consider dropping out.

I'd imagine that the school has grade requirements in place (Iowa State does). We're out if we fail, and out if we exceed a certain number of D's. A student in your scenario may have a decision made for them.

I don't think people who fail their way through school should be vets, but good god is it ABSOLUTELY possible to give your all, work super hard, learn a lot, and STILL get C's in vet school.

Different people are good at different things and there are many factors that determine whether or not you'll make a good vet. I think grades have too many variables to base "good vet"-ness off of (some of them personal issues, some of them school issues).

You both said it better than I did.

 

[gilch]

I have to wonder if the schools with relatively high attrition are having more problems choosing students rather than keeping them.

 

[zeebra44]

I have to wonder if the schools with relatively high attrition are having more problems choosing students rather than keeping them.

That's a good point. I didn't even think of it that way.

 

[sunshinevet]

As much as I agree that the students with straight A's won't nessercerrily make the best vets, I also believe you have to be able to make the passing grade. Sure, grades aren't the only indicators of what will make a good vet, but I don't think you can get away with a lower-than-pass score just because you're "nicer" or "more understanding" to clients and animals. Sometimes, you just need to know it!

And that required putting in a lot of hard work. And sometimes yeah, you can get very little reward for that hard work. But there seems to be some people in this thread who seem to think that the vet school should be super-accomodating - sure, if you're having big issues, I hope that they would be understanding and help you out, but at the end of the day, the onus to get through vet school is on you. Just because you got into vet school does not make you automatically entitled to be a vet. You've got to do that yourself. (This is especially aimed at the OP!)

And yes, I've had to deal with a lot of my own **** while in vet school. But you know what? If you let people know, the moment you start sinking, that you're in trouble and you need help, the vast majority of fellow students and faculty members will go out of their way to help you. There's no point in waiting until after you've failed 3 classes to suddenly pull out all these excuses - they could have and would have helped you before, but its a bit late now.