Which DO schools are comparable to allopathic schools

[J.Pearlman]

Hi everyone, I wanted to know which DO schools are comparable to allopathic schools, meaning in its surrounding, step scores, structure of curriculum and the amount of flexibility it gives its students in choosing residency. This might mean that this school has the highest board scores but not necessarily. It can simply mean that the school has top affiliated hospitals and has previously placed students in some of the most competitive (Derm, Anesth, etc.). Also, are there any DO schools that one should stear clear from because of some particular reason (environment, residency placement, class size, curriculum) I am currently researching NYCOM, since it is in NY and the hospitals where the students do rotations are in city-type urban surrounding, the type that im very used to since I have volunteered and interned at many of them. This doesn't mean that I prefer schools only in and around NY, but I do necesarily want to be around an urban setting. Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

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[muonwhiz]

Your question assumes that osteopathic schools are not comparable, except perhaps in a few instances. I think you will find your research more fruitful if you start it with a more objective outlook. Good luck.

 

[DOtobe]

Med school is med school. All of them pretty much have the same curriculum. All DO schools are comparable to allopathic schools in that respect.

But if you want to know, I have a friend who goes to PCOM who says (and I don't want to offend the other SDN PCOMers) that PCOM is the most allopathic-wannabe DO school.

(Disclaimer to PCOM students: Those were my friend's words, not mine!)

 

[DOnut]

J. Pearlman,

See my reply to your question in the premed form.

 

[oceandocDO]

Pearlman...
I have to admit, the way you worded your question was ******ed.

Just as they are many types of MD schools, there are many types of DO schools. There are hundreds of MD schools, a quarter of which I wouldnt set foot in if I needed blood yesterday.

NYCOM itself is in a very suburban setting, although its only 18 miles from Manhattan. Most, but not all, rotations are city hospitals though, and very good city hospitals.

My advice is to not look for a school based on board scores, placements, etc. If you're to do that, Harvard is in Boston. Go to the school that fits you the best. Every school, DO or MD, will have it's brillant students and it's not-so brillant students, Harvard included. You have to be happy in order to have the drive and stamina needed to work hard and make yourself into the best doctor you can be.

I'm a second year at NYCOM so PM me if you have specific questions about this school.

 

[DrQuinn]

To the original poster.. it seems that your decision has already been made, you want to go to an urban medical school.... so just choose the DO schools in urban areas... you would have NYCOM, PCOM, NSUCOM (Ft. Lauderdale/Miami), uhm, Des Moines, there's the one in Kansas City... the western DO schools I would guess are in bigger cities. Don't know about the Ohio or Michigan one.

 

[muonwhiz]

oh, and don't forget, AZCOM is in Glendale which in reality is Phoenix AZ. But (to original poster) don't come to any DO school anywhere if you are still engaged in the stereotypical thinking of decades past. Medical school is just too hard to be in a place that you feel that you "settled for" because you couldn't get in where you wanted. I turned down allopathic acceptance to go osteopathic and I am not the only one who did that by a long shot. I advise strongly that you apply only to allopathic schools if you do not fully believe in equality. Osteopathic physicians are only about 5% of the overall physician population in this country, and we really do not need to have persons become members who believe that our profession is in any way inferiorto the majority.

 

[oceandocDO]

Amen, muonwhiz.

Oh, and by the way, for just being "comparable to allopathic schools, the highest score in the country this year on the USMLE was from a DO student.

 

[Fenrezz]

Originally posted by oceandocDO
Amen, muonwhiz.

Oh, and by the way, for just being "comparable to allopathic schools, the highest score in the country this year on the USMLE was from a DO student.

Anyone know what school that person came from?

 

[PACtoDOC]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!!!! For the love of God would you people please go back to the original post and see what it was that made you respond so negatively to this poster??? I mean please, the person had a sincere interest in learning a bit more about the DO profession. They were not badmouthing us in any way. The remaining DO controversy is generally brought up by DO students who feel the need to defend territory that is not even being threatened. If I had been the poster of the original question, I might very well have gained insight from the replies leading me to believe that the DO community is full of whiners and overprotective cry-babies.

So with that, here is the correct response to the question. You should consider a DO school if you want to be a physician who will likely practice in primary care (peds, family, internist, OBGYN). You can also become a specialist, but the road is harder and more competitive. DO's are trained to be better primary care docs than most MD schools put out because of the less esoteric focus often found in some MD basic science years of med school. Yes, location is prime, and I would make that your number one choice of all. I chose a DO program over an MD program I was accepted at because the city is stellar. Thus, I am surprised no one mentioned Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine where I attend. In fact, I would argue that it offers the best of all DO schools.

A it is the cheapest.
B it is located in Texas where you can rotate at some of the countries best med centers.
C it is a health science center with great faculty
D it is in an urban area within a city of about 500,000 people.
E it is growing at a huge pace because it is a state school.

So, more than anything else, find a nice place, pick a good school that makes you feel at home, and go because of the "feel" whether it is DO or MD, unless you simply know you want to be a neurosurgeon (and there are DO NS's out there).

I apologize for my colleague's responses before, and hope you make the decision best for you.

MJM

 

[WishUponAStar]

I'll chime in.

I'm not sure what your friend's told you about PCOM's Osteopathic education, but from what I've been experiencing for the last 3 weeks, it is far from being "MD wannabe". I don't say that defensively, because quite honestly I could do without a little of the OPP philosophy because I have things like Cell and Tissue and Anatomy to chew.

PCOM integrates the Osteopathic fundamentals into the entire curriculum from D.O. clinical presentations in Gross Lab, to the "tissue" science behind OMM in Cell and Tissue, histology, development, etc. They are constantly telling us where the osteopathic Principles fit into our other subjects.

PCOM just brought into their department the "legends" of osteopathic faculty. We've got Dr. Kuchera now from Kirksville. He was their former department chair and his father was the chair before him, etc... We've got the former chair of OMM from COMP now. Our OMM faculty has some really longstanding traditional OMM crusaders now. I don't know if they are good or bad, but they are definitely well known in their field.

I still say that there aren't any BAD medical schools in the U.S. There might be some that are better than others, but every one of them will at least give you the bare minimum needed to become a physician, D.O. or M.D. Choose the school that you like and run with it.





-----------------------------------------------
Med school is med school. All of them pretty much have the same curriculum. All DO schools are comparable to allopathic schools in that respect.

But if you want to know, I have a friend who goes to PCOM who says (and I don't want to offend the other SDN PCOMers) that PCOM is the most allopathic-wannabe DO school.

(Disclaimer to PCOM students: Those were my friend's words, not mine!)


__________________
DOtobe, MSII
LECOM Class of 2005

 

[muonwhiz]

TCOM-- Please don't cite the Saints for your disagreement, and don't apologize for my comments. There are many pre meds out there who think that they should use DO schools as a back up plan if they can't get into MD schools. Face reality and recognize that many of those also have swallowed the obsolete thinking about osteopathy. This is a minority profession and we need members that will continue to push for full equality in the remaining places where it may not exist (and there are a few outpockets of resistance here in AZ, so I suspect there are a few elsewhere). We need to continue and build upon the work of our foremothers and forefathers and we don't need those that aren't committed to that process.

 

[DOnut]

I agree,

although the original poster may have been seeking information, the title of this particular form is a bit antagonistic.
Come on

 

[Ronny]

MD's and DO's are not equal. DO's have extra training in bones but have restrictions on where and how they can practice when they leave the USA. MD's can practice anywhere on earth after getting the proper licensure in the country to practice in.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by Ronny
MD's can practice anywhere on earth after getting the proper licensure in the country to practice in.

Not every country will give US trained MDs licenses to practice.

 

[Fenrezz]

Originally posted by Ronny
MD's and DO's are not equal. DO's have extra training in bones but have restrictions on where and how they can practice when they leave the USA. MD's can practice anywhere on earth after getting the proper licensure in the country to practice in.

Extra training in bones? Spoken like a true pre-med.

Damn!!! Now that you mention it, I'm totally regretting my decision to go to DO school because it cuts me off from my dream of practicing medicine in Bangladesh!


Guess I should drop out and apply to MD school. Who needs the extra training in bones anyway?

 

[Ronny]

Originally posted by Fenrezz


Extra training in bones? Spoken like a true pre-med.

Damn!!! Now that you mention it, I'm totally regretting my decision to go to DO school because it cuts me off from my dream of practicing medicine in Bangladesh!


Guess I should drop out and apply to MD school. Who needs the extra training in bones anyway?

In the USA all are equal. But if you want to go be a medical missionary in India you won't be allowed. I hope that this will be corrected soon or a worldwide exception will be made for medical volunteers.

 

[Ronny]

Originally posted by DrMom


Not every country will give US trained MDs licenses to practice.

I stand corrected. I just thought that the MD degree was internationaly recognized. Guess not.

Does anyone have a list of what countries restrict DO's practice as volunteers and which restrict MD's as well?

 

[Fenrezz]

Originally posted by Ronny

I stand corrected. I just thought that the MD degree was internationaly recognized. Guess not.

Does anyone have a list of what countries restrict DO's practice as volunteers and which restrict MD's as well?

Here is a good site that helps: http://www.kcomsga.org/clubs/soma/ih/current_status.html


Also, JPHazelton found this website which is a good resource. The site lists country by country where DO's are allowed or denied practice rights, and tells you who to contact for information about osteopathic practice rights in that country.

DO International Practice Rights:

Go here ------> http://www.studentdo.com/first.htm

Click on PROGRAMS on left.

Then click on INTERNATIONAL HEALTH.

Then click on INTERNATIONAL PRACTICE RIGHTS.

 

[oceandocDO]

I could be wrong, but if you go overseas with most US-based medical missionary groups (eg, Doctors without Borders, etc), it doesnt matter whether you're a DO or an MD. If you want to go overseas by yourself and work independently or for a foreign missionary, you are limited in some places, but not many that you'd want to go anyway honestly. In most of these countries in need of missionary aid, they'll take any help they can get. Correct me if I'm wrong. How many people actually do this anyway? Are there some? Sure. Maybe 0.05% of grads? But this topic is usually used by MD premeds for fuel in the "my attending can beat up your attending" arguement.

And Ronny, god I hope I'm your attending some day. Bring it.

 

[Ronny]

Fenrezz, thanks for those links. That clarifies a lot.

oceandocDO, I'm glad to know that. I was uner the impression that you could only do medical missionary work in countries that had 'full practice rights'. That's what I'de really like to do someday to serve in some of the poorest nations in the world in the worst slums and poorest villages. It would actually be helping people to survive, but more important than the humanitarian work would be to share Jesus with them and show them that love and compassion that they may never have had before. In parts of southern Africa fo instance 1 in 3 has AIDS and there is so much suffering and so many orphans, many of whom have AIDS as well. It's sort of a fantasy of mine to care for them and bring them love and mercy, especially to the orphans. A good friend of mine is doing missions work in the Ukrain visiting orphanages. Those kids are so sick and malnourished. They need the most basic medical care, they suffer from simple thimgs that just a shot of antibiotics can cure. They need so much help and they're so open to hearing about Jesus too.

 

[DOnut]

Hey Ronny,

Those are all very noble things to pursue, however you can find most of the problems that you are looking for within many inner cities here in the United States. Honestly there are some areas of New Orleans you would seriously consider to be 3rd world. Trust me, I know because I lived there for 4 years, abd my wife was born and raised there. I believe that as an American, if you want to truely do something noble, stay home and take care of those who trurly need it right here. It is too often that inner city Americans are forgotten about.


(I would have included rural America, but they seem to have the NHSC. NHSC seems to not want to help inner city Americans either, but that's another topic for another day.)

 

[droliver]

Originally posted by Fenrezz


Extra training in bones? Spoken like a true pre-med.

I think what he meant to say was extra training as a chiropracter

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by droliver


I think what he meant to say was extra training as a chiropracter

Like that's any better

 

[Aberfly]

JPearlman,
I heard that students at the Kirksville Osteo school who took the USMLE did so well that board members from the USMLE came to sit in on some Kirksville classes to see how they were being taught so well (and the USMLE was not even the focus of the class).

 

[PACtoDOC]

Some of you are such rookies, so I will try to refrain from criticizing. The chiropractic philosophy and school was an offshoot of a 6 week training session that Palmer received as a patient of AT Still, the father of Osteopathic Medicine. Palmer spent 6 weeks watching what Still had done for a decade or longer, thus could you be a physician in 6 weeks. That is why chiropractic care is less credible and will never be accepted into mainstream medicine. To compare a DO with chiropractor is to compare an Indy Race Car with a Soap Box Derby winner. They look a lot the same but there is truly no comparrison!!

 

[jennij]

Originally posted by PACtoDOC


So, more than anything else, find a nice place, pick a good school that makes you feel at home, and go because of the "feel" whether it is DO or MD, unless you simply know you want to be a neurosurgeon (and there are DO NS's out there).

MJM

Sorry. I just read this, and I don't know where you get your information from, but I know a few DO Neurosergeons. As a matter of fact the DO who wrote my letter of rec. is one. You can go into any sepcialty you want to..... DO's are not just GPs.

 

[jennij]

Ooops! Sorry! After I posted I re-read the quote..... I thought it said there are "no" DO's in NS.....

HAHAHA!!!!

SORRY! (But if you can believe it, I have to explain to people over and over that DO's CAN go into NS......)

 

[droliver]

I think the poster simply recognized the fact that your options would be limited if you wanted to do osteopathy and then NES and meant no offense.

 

[Diane L. Evans]

Lets try and stay focused. The question was one in earnest, a student desires a competitive residency and is concerned if having DO after his name will proclude him from that specialty.

The fact still remains that specialty program spots are mostly allopathic and that certain DO schools fare better than others. But first lets think of what one must have in order to get considered. Interview is based on point systems USMLE scores are a must as well as a competitive GPA 3.8 or higher as well as Student Leadership and Honor Associations. Letters of reference and the ability to perform in clinical years.

I know several DOs in Ortho a tough competitive residency as well as Radiology, Anesthesia, Plastics etc. There are many DO's in Cleveland Clinc, Mayo Clinic, John Hopkins.

I hope you decide to choose a DO school and realize the benefits osteopathy can offer patients. Good luck in your career
Diane
UHS 2003

 

[basha]

Originally posted by Diane L. Evans
and that certain DO schools fare better than others.

Would you mind telling us which schools fare better.

 

[Diane L. Evans]

As far as which DO schools are better. I feel they are all equally comparable in fact some of the newer schools are much more technically advanced. Take for example the Arizona school. Unfortunately the newer schools are not as well known by the allopathic programs putting them at somewhat a disadvantage. Howerever as I mentioned it is a point system they use as as interview criteria. The older schools are Kirkville, DesMoines, Philadelphia, and Kansas City.
Regardless of what school you are at you CAN ENTER ANY RESIDENCY AS LONG AS YOU WORK HARD TO MAKE YOURSELF AS COMPETITIVE AS POSSIBLE.
Good Luck Diane