Which is the best Caribbean Medical School?

[SGU2021]

They want to be MD very badly because they’re used to the MD lifestyle their daddy provided, who is also footing the bill.

Interesting take. I don't have a single physician in my family, and it's all loans and scholarships. My roommate who also goes to SGU is on a 100% scholarship, and a fellow third year at SGU doing rotations at my hospital comes from a family who lived in their car for a period during high school. Of course there are also wealthy people at SGU, just like US medical schools. People go to SGU because they want to be a physician. Some fail out or don't get a residency, most do get a residency and then they pay back their loans. Stop being a judgmental ass.

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[DrStephenStrange]

...People go to SGU because they want to be a physician. Some fail out or don't get a residency, most do get a residency and then they pay back their loans...

I agree with "most" if I go by the 65% placement rate from @gonnif. But expect this to become harder and harder as literally 1000s more U.S. grads from brand new MD and DO schools enter the match in the next few years. It's gonna be a blood bath even for U.S. grads, so don't hold your breath. I'm just hoping I match before most of them graduate (2024 is gonna be a sad year).

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[OwurayawMD]

man i graduate in 2024 . lets see how the competition is when we get there.

 

[deleted1011020]

Why do people go to Carib school knowing that they have less than 50% chance of matching? Are they that reach to throw away $200K+ and 4 years of life, I just don't get it

Sometimes its a last last ditch effort. I know 6-7 people that have gone or are going to Caribbean schools after either multiple cycles or not having met the 3.7 needed for the SMP.

 

[bedevilled ben]

That is incorrect as the SGU website states

SGU - Residency Appointment Directory
The National Residency Match Program (NRMP) and Canadian Resident Matching Service (CaRMs) place applicants for postgraduate medical training positions into residency programs at teaching hospitals throughout the United States and Canada. In the US, St. George’s University students obtain postgraduate training positions by either going through the NRMP, or by signing outside of the Match program. We post those residency positions reported to us by NRMP after March 20, and will post those who have signed outside of the Match as they are reported. On average, 29 percent of our graduating classes obtain residencies that are not through the National Residency Match Program.

SGU states that they place 94% in residency slots 2019, and on average they 29% who find spots other the the match. That would mean 65% of those who get a spot actually match into the position

This is absolutely pure anecdote and I don't expect anyone to buy my answers, or make decisions based on them. I'm pretty critical of my own graduating institution (SGU) in general. But I think a decent portion of that 29% are people seeking placement outside of the US as first-choice, and thus I wonder how much they contribute to that number. Africa (and the Caribbean also) in particular draws a decent number of individuals that are seeking "Western" medical education that can then return to their home countries to practice & teach. I only bring this up because I have several colleagues that are doing this. Again, very anecdotal. I've frequently cited SGU's overall attrition at around 15-20% based on my own experiences, so this isn't a huge deviation from the numbers you're quoting. And it's also a big jump from USMD/DO schools. Take with a grain of salt, of course.

Starting with a US-bound class of 1450 (see my previous analysis), and an 8% attrition rate, would mean about 115 students drop out, meaning about 1335 students would left to complete and graduate. Yet only 960 got a residency slot. That is another 375 students unaccounted for. Either they are misleading in how they define attrition, choosing to not count those urged to drop out before actually failing out, or they are strict in how they define students "eligible" to apply for residency, by restricting who will get a dean letter in order to apply

This is a little overly simplistic because the class sizes are dramatically different between the January and August classes with rolling admissions. The August class is typically around 1,000 students, but the Jan class is usually more like 400. When students start to decel (meaning they drop back into the class below them) the class sizes start to vary wiiiiidely and it becomes very difficult to track. The decel mechanic has no parallel in the US system that I know of. Additionally, the students that matriculate in the UK campus have a very different composition and attrition rate, for MS1. Those students then join the Grenada class in MS2. For these and other reasons, it's really hard to get a bead on what a "typical" SGU class looks like statistically. Making estimations of attrition becomes quite tough.

They are able do so by having an incoming class more than five times the size of the largest US medical school class. It more that ten times the size of the typical US medical school class. How can any school providing medical education on that massive scale able to provide oversight, quality, and clinical instruction . This isnt impressive, this is frightening

In general, I agree with you. SGU is predatory, no question. But I also think you're sensationalizing a bit, and dipping into the fallacy of an Argument from Incredulity. Medical education isn't at parity across institutions even within the US, let alone globally. Some schools are simply better than others, that's just a fact. Does that mean that we shouldn't value physicians that trained outside of a typical "US-centric" model of medicine? Isn't that why we have Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, and Step 3 to even the playing field? Implying that Caribbean, or any other international graduates, are somehow deficient by virtue of their graduating institution is exactly the bias we're trying to fight. Does it really matter if you attend med school in Nigeria, Russia, Grenada, Iowa, California, or Iceland? If you meet the criteria to sit the exam, shouldn't you have the option to prove yourself, and pass the bar?

 

[Thebestofus]

The hate on Caribbean schools on SDN is actually hilarious and highlights the ignorance and the "I'm holier than thou" attitude. In my experience, grads from Caribbean schools are more motivated to become strong applicants because the road ahead is steeper. In addition, I've found carribean med students to need a LOT LESS hand holding than their American counter parts. What does it take to fail out of a Caribbean school? Not much, literally one bad exam can mess the entire thing up.

Look if you can go to a US school, do it so that you have an easier time in the match. But if for some reason you can't, then a Caribbean school is a DEFINITELY a solid option assuming you go to a top 4.

Personally, I went to a Caribbean school. Went to a mid tier University IM program with better step scores than any of my residency classmates who were mostly US grads. Then I matched in a GI fellowship at a University program- something none of my US classmates achieved. My two best friends from carribean school went into Ortho at University of Toronto and the other went to radiology at Duke. We heard rumors than 3 people in our class of 50 didn't match but guess what, we weren't surprised when we found out who.

Carribean schools are a solid option if you are motivated enough but they are 3 folds harder. And remember, you're in charge of your success, not the school you go to.

 

[Sephirakra]

The hate on Caribbean schools on SDN is actually hilarious and highlights the ignorance and the "I'm holier than thou" attitude. In my experience, grads from Caribbean schools are more motivated to become strong applicants because the road ahead is steeper. In addition, I've found carribean med students to need a LOT LESS hand holding than their American counter parts. What does it take to fail out of a Caribbean school? Not much, literally one bad exam can mess the entire thing up. Whereas American grads get their asses wiped and massaged on a daily basis without gaining additional knowledge.

Look if you can go to a US school, do it so that you have an easier time in the match and then won't have to deal with the pricks in this thread. But if for some reason you can't, then a Caribbean school is a DEFINITELY a solid option assuming you go to a top 4.

Personally, I went to a Caribbean school. Went to a mid tier University IM program with better step scores than any of my residency classmates who were mostly US grads. Then I matched in a GI fellowship at a University program- something none of my US classmates achieved. My two best friends from carribean school went into Ortho at University of Toronto and the other went to radiology at Duke. We heard rumors than 3 people in our class of 50 didn't match but guess what, we weren't surprised when we found out who.

TLDR: don't believe the doom and gloom in this thread, and certainly ignore the dinguses. Carribean schools are a solid option if you are motivated enough but they are 3 folds harder. And remember, you're in charge of your success, not the school you go to.

How would getting one's ass wiped improve that person's knowledge?

 

[Thebestofus]

How would getting one's ass wiped improve that person's knowledge?

Haha. Badly worded sentence, they are not gaining additional knowledge over their carribean counterparts. Getting their asses massage was just a little hyperbole for the complete cush system of med schools as compared with international med schools.

 

[CriticalCareDoc7]

The best one? I think that's pretty subjective. I went to AUC graduated in 2014. I would say St George's has the most recognizable name out of the Caribbeans school. They also have a lot of graduates and those graduates did well at a particular residency the PDs are more likely to choose them over another Caribbean School.

I'm not sure what the landscape is these days in regards to matching.
I did notice on AUC's website there are definitely less US clinical sites than when I was in school.
I also noticed less matching to university programs compared to when I was seeking residency.
I also noticed much more FM matches. I recall our match list in 2014 had more radiology/anesthesia/surgery matches
as well as university IM matches.

I went to a university IM program. Currently at a university Pulm/Crit program.

The journey was rough. Stressful. Always had to score super high on all the Steps. Work your ass off and make sure everything is

in perfect order.

My classmates that did well and matched well are the type of students that would of done well at any medical school, US or otherwise.

I definitely would recommend figuring out a way to stay in the US. No idea what's going to happen 4 years from now.

With Step 1 being pass/fail that takes away an IMG's ability to make up some distance on their AMG peers.

Good luck man.

 

[teefturnsmeon]

The best caribbean school is the one you don't go to. You better stay in the states if you want a chance to match. Med school graduates have been increasing. This trend will continue for years to come. Offshore students will have a hard time matching.

 

[Damson]

The best caribbean school is the one you don't go to. You better stay in the states if you want a chance to match. Med school graduates have been increasing. This trend will continue for years to come. Offshore students will have a hard time matching.

More accurate advice is - go if you know you are a strong student and have good control of your behavior. Don't go if otherwise.

 

[Isoval]

More accurate advice is - go if you know you are a strong student and have good control of your behavior. Don't go if otherwise.

Generally agree with this.

Would amend it to read:
"Go if you know you are a strong student, have good control of your behavior, and have something blocking you out of American schools such as plagiarism charges or other serious events/IAs".

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

The best one? I think that's pretty subjective. I went to AUC graduated in 2014. I would say St George's has the most recognizable name out of the Caribbeans school. They also have a lot of graduates and those graduates did well at a particular residency the PDs are more likely to choose them over another Caribbean School.

I'm not sure what the landscape is these days in regards to matching.
I did notice on AUC's website there are definitely less US clinical sites than when I was in school.
I also noticed less matching to university programs compared to when I was seeking residency.
I also noticed much more FM matches. I recall our match list in 2014 had more radiology/anesthesia/surgery matches
as well as university IM matches.

I went to a university IM program. Currently at a university Pulm/Crit program.

The journey was rough. Stressful. Always had to score super high on all the Steps. Work your ass off and make sure everything is

in perfect order.

My classmates that did well and matched well are the type of students that would of done well at any medical school, US or otherwise.

I definitely would recommend figuring out a way to stay in the US. No idea what's going to happen 4 years from now.

With Step 1 being pass/fail that takes away an IMG's ability to make up some distance on their AMG peers.

Good luck man.

CONGRATS ALL graduates! But I heard that all STEP exam takers can still opt to report their score so I think this can still be used to gain distance on AMG peers!

 

[Med Ed]

But I heard that all STEP exam takers can still opt to report their score

As of January 26, 2021 all Step 1 results are reported as P/F.

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

As of January 26, 2021 all Step 1 results are reported as P/F.

Yes, but I was under the impression that the STEP 1 still generates a score to show your performance. Then, later you can opt in to release the numerical score to residency programs if you wish to. If you do not, your score will be reported as P/F. I heard a resident tell me this information but it might have changed. Please let me know. Thanks!

 

[EthylMethylMan]

Yes, but I was under the impression that the STEP 1 still generates a score to show your performance. Then, later you can opt in to release the numerical score to residency programs if you wish to. If you do not, your score will be reported as P/F. I heard a resident tell me this information but it might have changed. Please let me know. Thanks!

I have never heard this. It would also defeat the point of the change. The NBME did this to quash the Step 1 arms race culture among medical students. If you could still transmit numerical scores programs, people would still gun for high scores. Programs could also read between the lines and infer that students withholding numerical scores did sub-optimally.

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

I have never heard this. It would also defeat the point of the change. The NBME did this to quash the Step 1 arms race culture among medical students. If you could still transmit numerical scores programs, people would still gun for high scores. Programs could also read between the lines and infer that students withholding numerical scores did sub-optimally.

Yeah I could not find anything on the internet that supported this either, but I believed him since I had no reason not to. But now that I am actually in applications, I want to confirm if what I heard is true or not. Perhaps anyone who is matched recently can confirm or deny?

 

[Highlander455]

From USMLE FAQ webpage:

"All scores for Step 1 exams taken on or before January 25, 2022 will continue to be reported as a numeric score and pass/fail outcome on all USMLE transcripts. If a Step 1 exam on a transcript was taken on or after January 26, 2022, only a pass/fail outcome will be reported."

Common Questions | Step 1

Have a question about the USMLE Step 1? View answers to common questions across a broad range of exam-related topics.

www.usmle.org

So if you're doing Step 1 now it will be reported as Pass/Fail. For those who took it before January 26, 2022 it will be a numeric score.

 

[Med Ed]

Yes, but I was under the impression

You need to get under a newer, more accurate impression.

 

[Goro]

Yes, but I was under the impression that the STEP 1 still generates a score to show your performance. Then, later you can opt in to release the numerical score to residency programs if you wish to. If you do not, your score will be reported as P/F. I heard a resident tell me this information but it might have changed. Please let me know. Thanks!

You are wrong

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

You need to get under a newer, more accurate impression.

And I did. Thanks for your contribution. It was very helpful XD

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

You are wrong

Correct

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

From USMLE FAQ webpage:

"All scores for Step 1 exams taken on or before January 25, 2022 will continue to be reported as a numeric score and pass/fail outcome on all USMLE transcripts. If a Step 1 exam on a transcript was taken on or after January 26, 2022, only a pass/fail outcome will be reported."

Common Questions | Step 1

Have a question about the USMLE Step 1? View answers to common questions across a broad range of exam-related topics.

www.usmle.org

So if you're doing Step 1 now it will be reported as Pass/Fail. For those who took it before January 26, 2022 it will be a numeric score.

Thanks for the clarification. Ill talk to that resident again next time I shadow in the department. Maybe I misunderstood when he was explaining to me the matching process.

 

[IMGASMD]

Yeah I could not find anything on the internet that supported this either, but I believed him since I had no reason not to. But now that I am actually in applications, I want to confirm if what I heard is true or not. Perhaps anyone who is matched recently can confirm or deny?

In applications for what?! Med school? Residency?
If you haven’t been on this forum enough, the number one rule is don’t go to any Caribbean schools. Unless you want to fight an upward battle.

Ps. Those people who you’ve responded in snide (at least view by me) remarks to are some of the most helpful people in this forum. You, on the other hand, are a new member asking for advice. So listen.

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

In applications for what?! Med school? Residency?
If you haven’t been on this forum enough, the number one rule is don’t go to any Caribbean schools. Unless you want to fight an upward battle.

Ps. Those people who you’ve responded in snide (at least view by me) remarks to are some of the most helpful people in this forum. You, on the other hand, are a new member asking for advice. So listen.

Oh im sorry. I did not mean anything in snide. I was merely trying to be playful. Sorry if it seemed snide. I have been scouring SDN forums and everyone has so much insightful advice. I appreciate every bit of information I can learn. Anyway, I am a med school applicant and I have an acceptance to SGU as a backup. I am in the midst of interviews at allopathic MD programs. I am still filling out secondaries to the many more DO programs I have applied to. Hopefully I get interviews soon for them too. I was just doing research on how best to succeed into med school and how to match. All this info is quite new to me so I asked people I know in real life, but I am getting discrepancies in the answers. Im quite new to this whole medical pathway, but I want to succeed, so Im doing my best to learn. Sorry if I offended anybody.

 

[Splenda88]

In applications for what?! Med school? Residency?
If you haven’t been on this forum enough, the number one rule is don’t go to any Caribbean schools. Unless you want to fight an upward battle.

Ps. Those people who you’ve responded in snide (at least view by me) remarks to are some of the most helpful people in this forum. You, on the other hand, are a new member asking for advice. So listen.

Well, that is not true. There are 4 Caribbean schools worth attending. But they are all located in Puerto Rico. Lol

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

Interesting question about SGU popped into my head which I cannot find the answer for from anywhere else. I did research on them and they have a UK track program where US IMGs can do their first 2 years there in a 7:1 faculty ratio in North Umbria. Of course, the third year will be back on SGU and fourth will be spent on rotations in the US or abroad to the student's liking.

Would this be better than the traditional Caribbean IMG route? I feel like the better quality of instruction would be better for the attrition concern, perhaps better for STEP preparation because of the better foundation, etc. I also wonder if it will help them in residency placement because of their unique experiences as long as they meet the standards for the residency program.

The cons to this route in the UK is that apparently, the medical student cannot get federal student aide for ALL 4 years of medical school, even in the 3rd and 4th years while they are back in the US. So funding everything by private loans is not an ideal option for most applicants.

 

[Goro]

Interesting question about SGU popped into my head which I cannot find the answer for from anywhere else. I did research on them and they have a UK track program where US IMGs can do their first 2 years there in a 7:1 faculty ratio in North Umbria. Of course, the third year will be back on SGU and fourth will be spent on rotations in the US or abroad to the student's liking.

Would this be better than the traditional Caribbean IMG route? I feel like the better quality of instruction would be better for the attrition concern, perhaps better for STEP preparation because of the better foundation, etc. I also wonder if it will help them in residency placement because of their unique experiences as long as they meet the standards for the residency program.

The cons to this route in the UK is that apparently, the medical student cannot get federal student aide for ALL 4 years of medical school, even in the 3rd and 4th years while they are back in the US. So funding everything by private loans is not an ideal option for most applicants.

If you want to practice medicine in the United states, go to an American Medical school.

There are no shortcuts no easy paths in this process and if your stats aren't good enough for American Medical schools, either MD or do then you need to improve them.

That will require some years of GPA repair in either special Masters program or post back. But going to the Caribbean is a 50/50 chance at being some quarter of a million dollars in debt and never being a doctor

 

[LlMITBREAKER]

Just an update to my situation. I am going to a DO school (WCUCOM) and have dropped my acceptances to carib schools. I did further research on them, thanks to imploration from SDN threads, and really saw their true attrition rates. Thank God for SDN lol.