Which Medical School should I attend: SGU or Ross?

[unknownthrowaway]

I got accepted to both Ross University School of Medicine and St. Georges School of Medicine (SGU) and was wondering which school I should attend and why? I get the bad rep Caribbean Schools get and I have already heard enough from family and friends, but these are my only options at the moment. I would appreciate any advice as I do have to pay soon for my seat. Thanks in advance 🙂

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[DrStephenStrange]

Neither. Work towards applying broadly DO this cycle.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

There are enough new DO schools out there nowadays where no one should be going Caribbean.

 

[the argus]

I got accepted to both Ross University School of Medicine and St. Georges School of Medicine (SGU) and was wondering which school I should attend and why? I get the bad rep Caribbean Schools get and I have already heard enough from family and friends, but these are my only options at the moment. I would appreciate any advice as I do have to pay soon for my seat. Thanks in advance 🙂

There is no functional difference. Pick which island you would prefer to live on and go for it.

 

[the argus]

There are enough new DO schools out there nowadays where no one should be going Caribbean.

This is a nonsensical comment.

1) Are there ever unfilled spots at DO schools? No.

2) Do you think that the number of spots available at USMD + DO schools is somehow based on some formula that determines the number of US citizens that are qualified to practice medicine? It's not. It's not based on anything actually.

3) There are currently ~8000 more PGY1 spots available each year than AMG grads (USMD + DO) to fill them. There are literally thousands of US-IMGs that help fill these spots every year. These are people that are qualified to become physicians but the US undergraduate medical education system fails to provide positions for them.

Unless your solution is that we should just import more non-US citizens from outside the country to fill GME positions each year, then you should really re-think your position...

 

[DrStephenStrange]

This is a nonsensical comment.

1) Are there ever unfilled spots at DO schools? No.

2) Do you think that the number of spots available at USMD + DO schools is somehow based on some formula that determines the number of US citizens that are qualified to practice medicine? It's not. It's not based on anything actually.

3) There are currently ~8000 more PGY1 spots available each year than AMG grads (USMD + DO) to fill them. There are literally thousands of US-IMGs that help fill these spots every year. These are people that are qualified to become physicians but the US undergraduate medical education system fails to provide positions for them.

Unless your solution is that we should just import more non-US citizens from outside the country to fill GME positions each year, then you should really re-think your position...

I get where you’re coming from, but that was not the point.

 

[Highlander455]

This is a nonsensical comment.

1) Are there ever unfilled spots at DO schools? No.

2) Do you think that the number of spots available at USMD + DO schools is somehow based on some formula that determines the number of US citizens that are qualified to practice medicine? It's not. It's not based on anything actually.

3) There are currently ~8000 more PGY1 spots available each year than AMG grads (USMD + DO) to fill them. There are literally thousands of US-IMGs that help fill these spots every year. These are people that are qualified to become physicians but the US undergraduate medical education system fails to provide positions for them.

Unless your solution is that we should just import more non-US citizens from outside the country to fill GME positions each year, then you should really re-think your position...

Add to this that according to AAMC data, the United States faces a projected physician shortage of up to 124,000 physicians by 2034, with demand for physicians outpacing supply.

 

[Highlander455]

You've already got the advice about looking at DO schools and not going Carribbean route. This is generally good advice.

Caribbean route is not an easy path. If you have academic weaknesses that caused you to not be competitive for US schools, these weaknesses are likely to follow you and cause problems in Caribbean schools as well. You risk ending up thousands of dollars in debt with no degree.

Also, without knowing more about your background, its hard for anyone to offer any tailored advice.

That said, and as the Argus also said, either school will get you to an MD and a (most likely) primary care residency (FM, IM, Peds) if you have what it takes to succeed.

Much of the decision probably comes down to personal preference or "fit" between you and the school.

SGU is probably a bit more expensive at an average of $35,000 per semester vs around $30,000 for RUSM. Look into scholarships at each school.

None of these schools publish their attrition rates, but anecdotally SGU's attrition rate may be a bit lower than RUSM's.

Both schools are large compared to say AUC. SGU has more students and matches about 1,000 students a year vs RUSM which matches about 600. If you don't do well in large classes, look into which school offers the best academic supports.

You might want to look into where each school does their clinical rotations, what the life and culture is like on Grenada vs Barbados, availability of direct flights home from each island, accommodations, particularly for first year students (may be required to stay in residences) and off campus housing options and cost for later.

Arrange through the schools to talk to current students and ask about their experiences with the school and in the above areas.

A lot to consider. Hopefully others on this forum will have some insights to offer in these areas.

 

[Gambino.]

Ross, SGU, and AUC will all offer the same benefits to you. Like DrStephenStrange said, DO is better but if you do go Carib, both the schools are functionally the same.

You have to look at cost; tell either school you got an offer from the other and often times they will give a pretty substantial scholarship in order to get your business *ahem* I mean get a talented student. After cost, take a look at islands; I chose Ross since it was cheaper and b/c Barbados looked a bit more developed compared to Grenada. Lastly, and least importantly would be how much you care about class size. Both schools have online lecture so SGU no longer has an overcrowding issue to find a seat for lecture to my knowledge but obviously resources are still limited in regards to housing and study spaces. From what I have heard, SGU's housing is much older than Ross' and SGU sometimes forces you to find off-campus housing after year 1 if they are limited on available spaces. Ross' housing isn't exactly great (look up Villages at Coverley) but it is newer and I've never heard of anyone having to leave student housing due to space. You can also take a look at AUC and see if you like that school (both Ross and AUC are owned by the same company).

TLDR: Pick the cheapest one.

 

[the argus]

I get where you’re coming from, but that was not the point.

It is exactly the point.

If your standard answer to any question about caribbean medical schools is just to say, "no one should need the caribbean anymore because of DO school expansion," then you obviously don't get the big picture.

There are not enough undergraduate medical education spots in the US. There are more qualified applicants than positions available. The actual functional consequence of no US citizens going to caribbean medical schools is that we will just import 2000-3000 more foreign nationals a year to fill our PGY1 needs.

If you are for less US citizens rising up and becoming doctors in this country, then by all means keep doling out your advice.

 

[KatD]

I agree with Highlander455, look into scholarships at both schools. If you get a scholarship offer from one school the other may match it or do better.
I suggest you visit the SGU campus. They have a program where accepted students can participate in a complementary visit to the campus, with flights and hotel fees covered. I don't know if Ross offers the same program but, if they do, you should visit both schools.

 

[PikminOC]

Add to this that according to AAMC data, the United States faces a projected physician shortage of up to 124,000 physicians by 2034, with demand for physicians outpacing supply.

That's doesn't matter if the number of residency slots remains the same with Medicare funding.

 

[Highlander455]

That's doesn't matter if the number of residency slots remains the same with Medicare funding.

Good point. Hopefully given the projected shortage this gets addressed. Interesting article here on the topic:

Match Day 2023 a reminder of the real cause of the physician shortage: not enough residency positions

Let’s take stock on the real issue of why we don’t have enough physicians.

www.medicaleconomics.com

 

[saltlifesaver]

I was accepted to both and ended up going to Ross due to the $94K scholarship and free on island housing. Both schools have their problems. After doing clinicals with SGU students we all go through the same trials. I agree with the above statements. Try your best to go to a US school. You will pay more money, have to find some of your own clinical rotations and find other alumni in the specialty you want to go into for advice. Caribbean schools will get you the MD, but you will give your sole to get it and then be looked at as "not as smart" when in reality, you taught yourself medical school and fought to get to where you are.

 

[ValPak00per]

I was accepted to both and ended up going to Ross due to the $94K scholarship and free on island housing. Both schools have their problems. After doing clinicals with SGU students we all go through the same trials. I agree with the above statements. Try your best to go to a US school. You will pay more money, have to find some of your own clinical rotations and find other alumni in the specialty you want to go into for advice. Caribbean schools will get you the MD, but you will give your sole to get it and then be looked at as "not as smart" when in reality, you taught yourself medical school and fought to get to where you are.

Do you think it’s easier to worker harder at a Caribbean school for a MD? Or work harder to get a high enough mcat score for DO schools?

 

[PuzzlesMD]

Do you think it’s easier to worker harder at a Caribbean school for a MD? Or work harder to get a high enough mcat score for DO schools?

In general, it will be a lot easier to get into DO school than it is to succeed in a Caribbean and match.

Lots of newer DO schools that are willing to take near-500 MCAT scores. The amount of effort to get a 500 on the MCAT is far below the amount of effort it will take to not get kicked out of the Caribbean/ passing Step 1 / passing Step 2 / etc.

 

[Emmet2301]

Do you think it’s easier to worker harder at a Caribbean school for a MD? Or work harder to get a high enough mcat score for DO schools?

Working harder for an MCAT score is easier. But the issue is whether you're confident you'll get into an MD/DO school even with a higher MCAT.

 

[Wamuu]

This is a nonsensical comment.

1) Are there ever unfilled spots at DO schools? No.

2) Do you think that the number of spots available at USMD + DO schools is somehow based on some formula that determines the number of US citizens that are qualified to practice medicine? It's not. It's not based on anything actually.

3) There are currently ~8000 more PGY1 spots available each year than AMG grads (USMD + DO) to fill them. There are literally thousands of US-IMGs that help fill these spots every year. These are people that are qualified to become physicians but the US undergraduate medical education system fails to provide positions for them.

Unless your solution is that we should just import more non-US citizens from outside the country to fill GME positions each year, then you should really re-think your position...

I love you.

 

[gyngyn]

I love you.

Actually, there were 2,575 leftover positions in the SOAP. A large percentage were surgery "pre-lim" positions that do not lead to a license.

NRMP® Celebrates Match Day for the 2024 Main Residency Match®

The NRMP releases results for over 44,000 applicants and almost 6,400 residency programs Today, the National Resident Matching Program® (NRMP) is excited to recognize Match Day for its 2024 Main…

www.nrmp.org

 

[Highlander455]

Actually, there were 2,575 leftover positions in the SOAP. A large percentage were surgery "pre-lim" positions that do not lead to a license.

NRMP® Celebrates Match Day for the 2024 Main Residency Match®

The NRMP releases results for over 44,000 applicants and almost 6,400 residency programs Today, the National Resident Matching Program® (NRMP) is excited to recognize Match Day for its 2024 Main…

www.nrmp.org

From what I understand, there were also a lot of unfilled peds programs, likely due in part to lower peds salaries relative to other specialties, and underfunding of pediatric primary care.

What amazes me, given a projected physician shortage of 124,000 physicians by 2034, is that the US government isn't doing more to open immigration pathways for FMGs, such as by establishing more Conrad 30 positions.

Physician shortage is a global issue, and statistics suggest the Canadian shortage may be three times worse than that faced by the US on a per capita basis.

International competition for physicians may become very intense over the next decade until nations can increase domestic supplies. Easing immigration pathways seems to make a lot of sense.

 

[gyngyn]

From what I understand, there were also a lot of unfilled peds programs, likely due in part to lower peds salaries relative to other specialties, and underfunding of pediatric primary care.

What amazes me, given a projected physician shortage of 124,000 physicians by 2034, is that the US government isn't doing more to open immigration pathways for FMGs, such as by establishing more Conrad 30 positions.

Physician shortage is a global issue, and statistics suggest the Canadian shortage may be three times worse than that faced by the US on a per capita basis.

International competition for physicians may become very intense over the next decade until nations can increase domestic supplies. Easing immigration pathways seems to make a lot of sense.

From the same source:
In the 2024 Match, Pediatrics offered 3,139 categorical and primary positions, an increase of 93 over 2023, and filled 2,887 resulting in a fill rate of 92 percent compared to 97.1 percent in 2023. After the algorithm was processed, 252 Pediatrics positions were unfilled, an increase of 164 over last year. Notably, the percentage of U.S. MD seniors that matched to Pediatrics categorical positions in 2024 was 47.6 percent, a decrease of 7.2 percentage points from last year.

 

[the argus]

I love you.

Actually, there were 2,575 leftover positions in the SOAP. A large percentage were surgery "pre-lim" positions that do not lead to a license.

NRMP® Celebrates Match Day for the 2024 Main Residency Match®

The NRMP releases results for over 44,000 applicants and almost 6,400 residency programs Today, the National Resident Matching Program® (NRMP) is excited to recognize Match Day for its 2024 Main…

www.nrmp.org

The 8,000+ positions I was talking about has nothing to do with the SOAP. 9,045 IMGs matched in 2024 through the main match (US-IMGs 3,181 and foreign IMGs 5,864).

If you look at the ACGME Data Resource book (2022-2023 is most recent) on pg 89 figure C.28, you can clearly see that the number of IMGs entering the pipeline each year is steadily increasing. PGY-1 expansion continues to outpace US med school expansion (MD+DO).

The actual data shows that there's currently more opportunity for IMGs, including caribbean grads, than ever before in history. The doom and gloom predicted by "experts" on this website has never been based in reality. Caribbean grads have better prospects for PGY-1 placement today than they did 10-15 years ago. That's not my opinion, that's what the actual data shows.

ACGME Data Resource Book

www.acgme.org