Which medical specialty has the happiest doctors and why?????

[Frogger27]

Ortho.. they work hard, especially in residency. But it's hard to find a group of people who love what they do as much as orthopods

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[odyssey2]

Ortho.. they work hard, especially in residency. But it's hard to find a group of people who love what they do as much as orthopods

Agreed. You need to have the right personality and interests to like that work though.

 

[Nevergiveupok]

From what I've personally seen, orthopods and cardiologists (specifically invasive specialists).

Invasive cardiologists = truly passionate about what they do and don't mind working long hours. Pretty materialistic attendings (big homes, super nice cars, very business minded). One of them did save a life of a family member and I'm forever grateful for them. But have seen miserable cardiologists in other specialties like heart failure/electrophys.
Orthopods = a handful of medical student hopefuls walk into MS1 dreaming of doing ortho sports ( I did but ended up going primary care due to being below average and realizing I can do it via primary care too - sports med ). To be able to actually get to that point - do above average on boards, research, match ortho I'd imagine is surreal. Don't know many ortho attendings to be fair but a handful in training and they all love it. Very similar stereotype to outgoing/athletic/action-junky that I often find in those who go into EM (know at least one EM resident who had dreams of ortho as a MS1 but didn't have the board scores or patience to do a research year or two to take a chance to maybe not match). Agree with others, residency appears absolutely brutal vs. most other fields. Ortho resident I'm thinking of in particular works more than some gen surg residents I know by quite a lot.

 

[efle]

Like most normal human beings in America, and like those graphics show, most people don't like work. Doctors aren't an exception outside the minds of premeds.

Follows pretty straightforwardly from that the happiest people will be the ones with the best lifestyle, and salary in so much as salary buys you lifestyle (you can cut back to part time young, or even fully retire young).

If you like skin, eyeballs or pretty pictures that's probably where you'll be happiest. Some people also have incredibly successful practices in primary care, psych, or some IM subspecialties like allergy/immuno that give ROAD a run for the money.

The other field I'm surprised isn't mentioned already is peds for the people who love kiddos enough to wade through all the snot and poverty

 

[<(^_^)>]

The other field I'm surprised isn't mentioned already is peds for the people who love kiddos enough to wade through all the snot and poverty

I was going to say, pediatricians are probably happiest people I met, and yet I would probably be the most miserable in pediatrics out of all the fields.

I would also say mid-levels are coming for everyone, regardless of field, as are private equity groups and healthcare conglomerates. That 800k ortho salary might seem less enticing if the marginal tax rate is raised to a whopping 65% over 400k (would be the case in Hawaii, california and New York) or maybe you’ll see a massive pay cut if universal healthcare comes to pass. Your average joe won’t feel bad ortho is “only” making 350k (even though we know how much is sacrificed to get to that point the public won’t care) etc. Either way, don’t go into a field because of money that may or may not be there when you graduate.

Prioritize doing something you find enjoyable (or at minimum tolerable), with a schedule you find sustainable. Those two aspects are less likely to change in the future.

 

[djiboutiman]

I think it really is about doing what you love. I used to work with a few dermatologists, and not one of them would choose the field again if they could go back. I also know some PCPs that love their jobs. That being said, if I were to generalize things, the happiest physicians are probably in specialties that have the most time off.

 

[calivianya]

I’ve gotta say, I had no idea until I rotated through general surgery that surgeons can have such cush hours. I always assumed it was super tough and they worked all of the time. I had two surgery months (preceptor-based), and neither of my preceptors saw patients past 12pm on office days. Most of the time they were also done with surgery by 2pm on surgery days. So you’re looking at being completely done for the day somewhere between 12-2 five days a week if you work like these guys do. Both of them usually scheduled their third surgery day of the week to be super light, and often we were done by 9am or 10am after just 1-3 quick procedures under local. Makes for a nice weekend when you‘re done at 9am on a Friday!

Call weeks were a whole different monster... but I imagine if you have more than two partners so you only have to do a call week once a month or less often, it really wouldn’t be that bad.

If I thought I could handle a GS residency I might have decided to change my mind because of my preceptors’ lifestyles. Whether some places are busier or not, it’s clearly possible to have this kind of lifestyle if you want to.

 

[PTPoeny]

Anything that is mostly self-selected is going to have happier people. Peds and geriatrics usually lead most surveys I have seen over the years- although neither is in the two surveys posted above. Usually hypothesized to be because people only go into those fields if they actually like them as you lose money compared to similar competitiveness fields.

 

[Lem0nz]

I’ve gotta say, I had no idea until I rotated through general surgery that surgeons can have such cush hours. I always assumed it was super tough and they worked all of the time. I had two surgery months (preceptor-based), and neither of my preceptors saw patients past 12pm on office days. Most of the time they were also done with surgery by 2pm on surgery days. So you’re looking at being completely done for the day somewhere between 12-2 five days a week if you work like these guys do. Both of them usually scheduled their third surgery day of the week to be super light, and often we were done by 9am or 10am after just 1-3 quick procedures under local. Makes for a nice weekend when you‘re done at 9am on a Friday!

Call weeks were a whole different monster... but I imagine if you have more than two partners so you only have to do a call week once a month or less often, it really wouldn’t be that bad.

If I thought I could handle a GS residency I might have decided to change my mind because of my preceptors’ lifestyles. Whether some places are busier or not, it’s clearly possible to have this kind of lifestyle if you want to.

Our best kept secret.

But in all seriousness, this is a YMMV deal. Some general surgeons, particularly those in more rural settings, may only work a couple hours a day some days and their 'call' is laughable. Like they can be on call 24/7 and still barely need to come in to the hospital because horrible emergencies get instantly transferred from lack of ICU capability and the not horrible ones can wait until the morning. A lot of the time.

Other surgeons still work 6a-6p, or later, but they generally choose that sort of life. Admin work, program building, trauma shift type work. But they still usually only do that M-F.

Very rarely does a surgeon work more than one weekend a month I've seen. That's incredibly rare. I would say its even closer to 1 out of every six weekends.

I think if you averaged us you'd get like 8-4 M-F and one weekend a month and one call night a week though.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The ones that retired early in my experience...

 

[sloh]

Our best kept secret.

But in all seriousness, this is a YMMV deal. Some general surgeons, particularly those in more rural settings, may only work a couple hours a day some days and their 'call' is laughable. Like they can be on call 24/7 and still barely need to come in to the hospital because horrible emergencies get instantly transferred from lack of ICU capability and the not horrible ones can wait until the morning. A lot of the time.

Other surgeons still work 6a-6p, or later, but they generally choose that sort of life. Admin work, program building, trauma shift type work. But they still usually only do that M-F.

Very rarely does a surgeon work more than one weekend a month I've seen. That's incredibly rare. I would say its even closer to 1 out of every six weekends.

I think if you averaged us you'd get like 8-4 M-F and one weekend a month and one call night a week though.

What’s the income like for these very lifestyle friendly surgeon work schedules?

 

[Lem0nz]

What’s the income like for these very lifestyle friendly surgeon work schedules?

Lower end started at 350 for a co-resident who took one of those jobs straight out of a 5 year program. Higher end I'm not sure. Probably 500?

 

[deleted1103055]

The ones that retired early in my experience...

“I am probably going to work here till I die,” she said. “It’s a blessing.”
- Sister Mary Lisa Renfer, RSM, DO

In rural East Tennessee, a mobile clinic run by nuns and aging volunteers cares for the body and the soul

CRAB ORCHARD, Tenn. (RNS) — For Sister Mary Lisa Renfer, serving as medical director at the St. Mary's Legacy Clinic is her dream job. 'I didn't think you could be a sister and a doctor. Turns out you can.'

religionnews.com

In rural East Tennessee, a mobile clinic run by nuns and aging volunteers cares for the body and the soul​

For Sister Mary Lisa Renfer, serving as medical director at the St. Mary's Legacy Clinic is her dream job. 'I didn't think you could be a sister and a doctor. Turns out you can.'​

 

[<(^_^)>]

What’s the income like for these very lifestyle friendly surgeon work schedules?

Unfortunately there is no free lunch. Average hours for a general surgeon attending is around 55 hours a week. Work 25 hours and you’ll make (less) than half the average. In fact, on average you’ll make less per hour the less you work, and you’ll have a harder time finding jobs that are willing to accommodate your desired schedule (no weekend call, off early etc).

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articlepdf/1105820/ilt0711_1211_1213.pdf

 

[Welshman]

I’ve gotta say, I had no idea until I rotated through general surgery that surgeons can have such cush hours. I always assumed it was super tough and they worked all of the time. I had two surgery months (preceptor-based), and neither of my preceptors saw patients past 12pm on office days. Most of the time they were also done with surgery by 2pm on surgery days. So you’re looking at being completely done for the day somewhere between 12-2 five days a week if you work like these guys do. Both of them usually scheduled their third surgery day of the week to be super light, and often we were done by 9am or 10am after just 1-3 quick procedures under local. Makes for a nice weekend when you‘re done at 9am on a Friday!

Call weeks were a whole different monster... but I imagine if you have more than two partners so you only have to do a call week once a month or less often, it really wouldn’t be that bad.

If I thought I could handle a GS residency I might have decided to change my mind because of my preceptors’ lifestyles. Whether some places are busier or not, it’s clearly possible to have this kind of lifestyle if you want to.

I rotated at a VA for general surgery, the attendings scheduled all of their surgeries to end by 3pm latest everyday. Residents took a lot of clinic responsibility which then also ended around 2.

 

[frenchyn]

Thus the "depending on which ressource you quote";

View attachment 315809

Focus on the at work, Pulmonary med (higher than urology/plastic and tying w/ orhto), endocrinology, GE, Oncology are all IM specialties.

source: Medscape Lifestyle Report 2017: Race and Ethnicity, Bias and Burnout

Fyi, generally, someone unhappiness outside of work has nothing to do with their specialty.

Heck, Mental health and psychiatry could be the M in DREAM, still medicine >> psych. (imo)

Dang why is plastic so low?

 

[efle]

Dang why is plastic so low?

They're all low. Working sucks

 

[frenchyn]

They're all low. Working sucks

Mind to elaborate? 😅

 

[Cornfed101]

Anesthesiology or ophtho as some have said previously. My mentor is an anesthesiologist and he works from 6:30am-2pm, 5 days a week, very little call. Has 12 weeks PTO a year, oh and no SOAP notes

 

[efle]

Mind to elaborate? 😅

Theres no error bars on here and they're pretty clustered. I wouldnt read into minor differences between the middle of the pack. The real take home is the globally low numbers, everybody reports more happiness away from work

 

[Miles Gloriosus]

Anesthesiology or ophtho as some have said previously. My mentor is an anesthesiologist and he works from 6:30am-2pm, 5 days a week, very little call. Has 12 weeks PTO a year, oh and no SOAP notes

This is why I think med students will continue applying to anesthesia or EM despite all the talk of CRNAs or EM market saturation.

 

[efle]

This is why I think med students will continue applying to anesthesia or EM despite all the talk of CRNAs or EM market saturation.

did you think they'd keep applying to radonc? It had even better income and lifestyle

 

[Lawpy]

Derm?

 

[Ho0v-man]

did you think they'd keep applying to radonc? It had even better income and lifestyle

Rad onc has a lot more barriers to entry than anesthesia or EM. A 50th percentile MD can coast into anesthesia or EM. Literally almost anyone has a shot. The same can’t be said for rad onc, even today.

 

[Lawpy]

Rad onc has a lot more barriers to entry than anesthesia or EM. A 50th percentile MD can coast into anesthesia or EM. Literally almost anyone has a shot. The same can’t be said for rad onc, even today.

I'm surprised anyone's applying to radonc in this current environment

 

[ohmanwaddup]

The ortho life seemed pretty great while on rotations, but their clinic days were some of the most boring **** ever as a student. I'm sure it would have been more fun if I was the doc.

I strongly considered ortho after that rotations. I LOVED the surgeries and got to first assist on everything. But then I realized I'm a DO with average scores, no honors, strict geographic goals and hate research.

Primary care it is lol

 

[efle]

Rad onc has a lot more barriers to entry than anesthesia or EM. A 50th percentile MD can coast into anesthesia or EM. Literally almost anyone has a shot. The same can’t be said for rad onc, even today.

Today, RadOnc has the highest US MD match rate (>99%) and only filled 2/3 seats in the match

The days of needing high boards and research are long gone, it's harder to match EM or Anesthesia at a decent program now

I don't see how EM could avoid the same fate if they add 10,000 more boarded docs to the workforce by 2030

 

[Ho0v-man]

Today, RadOnc has the highest US MD match rate (>99%) and only filled 2/3 seats in the match

The days of needing high boards and research are long gone, it's harder to match EM or Anesthesia at a decent program now

I don't see how EM could avoid the same fate if they add 10,000 more boarded docs to the workforce by 2030

Wow. Just checked the charting outcomes and you’re totally right. They’ll literally take a USMD of any caliber whatsoever regardless of scores or research productivity. I thought for sure they at least still had the research hard on.

edit: goes to show how pointless research really is for these competitive fields.

 

[Neopolymath]

Wow. Just checked the charting outcomes and you’re totally right. They’ll literally take a USMD of any caliber whatsoever regardless of scores or research productivity. I thought for sure they at least still had the research hard on.

edit: goes to show how pointless research really is for these competitive fields.

Research is by far the dumbest thing I have encountered in the med school rat race. I cannot even believe that I'm saying that it is dumber than volunteering to get into medical school for a lot of people but here I am topping even that stupid thing.

 

[Welshman]

Today, RadOnc has the highest US MD match rate (>99%) and only filled 2/3 seats in the match

The days of needing high boards and research are long gone, it's harder to match EM or Anesthesia at a decent program now

I don't see how EM could avoid the same fate if they add 10,000 more boarded docs to the workforce by 2030

If you guys were back in med school, would you talk/tell your friends applying to EM about these numbers?

I want to but it almost feels wrong, like I'm discouraging them from their dream. The one time I have brought it up I got an "ehh who knows, what are you gunna do" type of response

 

[Neopolymath]

If you guys were back in med school, would you talk/tell your friends applying to EM about these numbers?

I want to but it almost feels wrong, like I'm discouraging them from their dream. The one time I have brought it up I got an "ehh who knows, what are you gunna do" type of response

I don't help people who won't even spend 5 minutes on sdn, reddit, or the myriad other resources available to premeds and med students. It's harsh but at this point, IMO, anyone who doesn't use these resources is being willfully ignorant.

There are no secrets to the premed or med school process beyond super niche research and networking tips for tiny specialties that aren't easily searchable in 5 minutes.

 

[Ho0v-man]

If you guys were back in med school, would you talk/tell your friends applying to EM about these numbers?

I want to but it almost feels wrong, like I'm discouraging them from their dream. The one time I have brought it up I got an "ehh who knows, what are you gunna do" type of response

I give it one honest try. Our school gives so much misinformation about this stuff. A lot of people avoid these sites because med schools negative enough as it is. I get that.

I actually told several people in my class my thoughts on how the high pay structure was built on a house of cards years ago.

Most told me to screw off. That I didn’t know anything. And then acted like they had their finger on the pulse of the specialty because they did some premed scribing. Only one person ended up doing something else and I doubt it had anything to do with me. Meh, whatever. It’s their life. I can sleep at night knowing I tried.

 

[Miles Gloriosus]

did you think they'd keep applying to radonc? It had even better income and lifestyle

Better lifestyle? I imagine that rad/oncs have to deal with a fair amount of scared and anxious patients. I would assume that takes a mental toll over time and probably require a lot of patient hand holding.
I am not an anesthesiologist and I do not speak for them. My opinion is only what I perceive. But anesthesia seems like a good gig. No/minimal outpatient follow up. Documentation is heavily templated and standardized. Very amenable to shift work. Once the patient leaves the pacu, any post op issue is the surgeon’s or PCPs problem. Don’t really take work home. I am pretty sure med students have been well aware of CRNA creep for awhile. Doesn’t seem like new grads are running away.
The happiest docs/most upbeat docs I work with are the anesthesiologists. (Saddest or unhappiest being the PCPs)

 

[ohmanwaddup]

I give it one honest try. Our school gives so much misinformation about this stuff. A lot of people avoid these sites because med schools negative enough as it is. I get that.

I actually told several people in my class my thoughts on how the high pay structure was built on a house of cards years ago.

Most told me to screw off. That I didn’t know anything. And then acted like they had their finger on the pulse of the specialty because they did some premed scribing. Only one person ended up doing something else and I doubt it had anything to do with me. Meh, whatever. It’s their life. I can sleep at night knowing I tried.

can you expand more on the high pay structure house of cards? Just curious about it.

 

[Ho0v-man]

can you expand more on the high pay structure house of cards? Just curious about it.

So I’m a non trad who worked with ED docs at multiple hospitals for ~ 10 years prior to med school.

In that time, they had absurd pay increases that coincided with the use of more and more midlevels. I remember the hospitals I worked for basically cutting the amount of physician coverage in half. 1 doc used to just see his/her patients and leave. That went to seeing that same volume AND taking liability for 2 midlevels you have no actual authority over. Of course pay went up. That’s what happens when you take liability for double the volume.

That’s all well and good when there’s a shortage of docs. The ED docs were happy to not be forced to cover all those shifts. I remember everyone in the hospital salivating over the ER gravy train. But it seemed like everyone wanted to jump on that ER train. I’m not talking just starry eyed premeds. I mean literally anyone could pick up rural ER shifts. I worked in the ED with pediatricians, IM, infectious disease specialists, a general surgeon, a radiology resident, and of course tons of FM docs. Some of them straight up closed their practices because of how good the ER gigs were. It’s literally the only field where anyone can do the job without doing the residency.

None of that seemed too great to me. But maybe there really is such massive demand it doesn’t matter. Maybe I’m just naive? But once I got into med school and started exploring specialties, I realized how much interest there was in residency expansion (in part because I have a couple buddies who work for HCA).

Now the writing was on the wall and plain as day. You’ve got a massive and unchecked expansion of residency positions that train people to explicitly only do one job that literally any doc or midlevel is allowed to do with essentially zero training.

Seemed obvious to me that the bottom was going to fallout over 5 years ago. I’m honestly surprised it took this long.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

How happy you are in general has little to do with your specialty assuming you picked something that's reasonably within your interests.

 

[Beans203]

Surprised at the lack of ENT on this thread- I’ve never met an unhappy ENT attending. Even the residents really seem to love what they do despite the first two years being pretty rough.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Surprised at the lack of ENT on this thread- I’ve never met an unhappy ENT attending. Even the residents really seem to love what they do despite the first two years being pretty rough.

Anatomically, the neck is probably my least favorite part of the body. so many weird words.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I don't help people who won't even spend 5 minutes on sdn, reddit, or the myriad other resources available to premeds and med students. It's harsh but at this point, IMO, anyone who doesn't use these resources is being willfully ignorant.

There are no secrets to the premed or med school process beyond super niche research and networking tips for tiny specialties that aren't easily searchable in 5 minutes.

Agreed. I just had a chat with one of the older M4s in my school. He's in his late 40s and horrible with computers ("where do the files go when I click download")

Even he knows all about the ACEP survey that was put out and knows everything we know. There's no excuse to not know anymore