Which medical specialty has the happiest doctors and why?????

[Prince_211]

Which medical specialty has the happiest doctors and why?????

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[The wise one]

DREAM because of lifestyle

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[slowthai]

Ortho, cuz you get to operate AND you don't have to do what you don't like

IM: You know, EKG-
Ortho: Don't know what that is, chief
IM: Sliding sc-
Ortho: Nope
IM: Potass-
Ortho: Gonna have to stop you right there
IM: But you went to medical school, you should know this!!! ARGHHHH
Ortho: Haha, sorry bro, all of that mediciny knowledge got replaced with ortho

 

[Chibucks15]

Ortho, cuz you get to operate AND you don't have to do what you don't like

IM: You know, EKG-
Ortho: Don't know what that is, chief
IM: Sliding sc-
Ortho: Nope
IM: Potass-
Ortho: Gonna have to stop you right there
IM: But you went to medical school, you should know this!!! ARGHHHH
Ortho: Haha, sorry bro, all of that mediciny knowledge got replaced with ortho

I mean to be fair that’s literally any specialty haha thats the point of specializing...

 

[odyssey2]

DREAM because of lifestyle

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Derm, rads, EM, anesthesia... what’s M?

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Derm, rads, EM, anesthesia... what’s M?

Maternal-Fetal medicine?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Neurosurgery. Bc it sucks but they’re all masochists anyway so it works out.

 

[The wise one]

Internal Medicine (broad field)

Derm, rads, EM, anesthesia... what’s M?

 

[Mad Jack]

Internal Medicine (broad field)

Internists are notorious for being unhappy more reliably in surveys than any other specialty.

 

[slowthai]

I mean to be fair that’s literally any specialty haha thats the point of specializing...

It's totally not, lol. Everyone knows the stereotype of the dumb orthopod. It's because they don't know the stuff that people say every doctor should know and understand. Even psych is more in touch with that stuff than ortho. I can think of few other specialties that don't medically manage their patients, or at least have as strong of a reputation for not doing so.

 

[The wise one]

Depends on who you ask. Pulmonary medicine,a branch of internal med, was top 5 in 2016/2017

Internists are notorious for being unhappy more reliably in surveys than any other specialty.

 

[Chibucks15]

It's totally not, lol. Everyone knows the stereotype of the dumb orthopod. It's because they don't know the stuff that people say every doctor should know and understand. Even psych is more in touch with that stuff than ortho. I can think of few other specialties that don't medically manage their patients, or at least have as strong of a reputation for not doing so.

I was talking directly about the part of not having to do what you don't wanna do. Like cards isn't gonna manage diabetes, etc

 

[Ho0v-man]

Internal Medicine (broad field)

Holy crap no. Change the mnemonic DREAD bc derm should just be mentioned twice.

 

[slowthai]

I was talking directly about the part of not having to do what you don't wanna do. Like cards isn't gonna manage diabetes, etc

Yeah, definitely don't disagree there

 

[TAVR4life]

Derm, rads, EM, anesthesia... what’s M?

EM has shift work but they work hard non-stop for those 8 and 10 hour shifts, no downtime. Plus they have to deal with the crappy attitudes of other specialities. A lot of burnout.

Rads is like a factory line with non stop studies. It can be tough as well.

Derm is the only field that truly has a good lifestyle (and psych), but derm is being taken over mid levels as is anesthesia.

Ortho has a very painful and tough residency, especially if at a trauma 1 center.

 

[agiraffe999]

Neurosurgery has one of the lowest burn out rates although that’s probably because it’s a highly self selecting field

 

[TAVR4life]

Neurosurgery has one of the lowest burn out rates although that’s probably because it’s a highly self selecting field

Neurosurgery has a tough residency but you can have a good lifestyle once you’re an attending.

 

[Tangerine123]

It wouldn't surprise me if it were occupational medicine, admin or public health.

 

[Mad Jack]

Depends on who you ask. Pulmonary medicine,a branch of internal med, was top 5 in 2016/2017

It's a specialty. Specialties have entirely separate lifestyles than internal medicine. Per studies I have seen, pulmonologists are not, in fact, all that happy, and are kind of known to be miserable.

Source: Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[risus_sardonicus]

Rads by far. No floor bs to deal with no rounding. Midlevel safe unless ofc administrators want ppl dropping life flies left and right in the near future

 

[TAVR4life]

It's a specialty. Specialties have entirely separate lifestyles than internal medicine. Per studies I have seen, pulmonologists are not, in fact, all that happy, and are kind of known to be miserable.
View attachment 315790
Source: Medscape: Medscape Access

General surgery tied for the highest?! Clearly they’re lying

 

[Mad Jack]

General surgery 2nd highest?! Clearly they’re lying

Notice that it is for people *outside of work* and that it doesn't include residents. While GS residency may be miserable, most general surgeons I've known outside of academic medicine have been quite happy.

 

[odyssey2]

Notice that it is for people *outside of work* and that it doesn't include residents. While GS residency may be miserable, most general surgeons I've known outside of academic medicine have been quite happy.

Maybe cuz they're so happy to not be at work (jk)

 

[Tangerine123]

How is the Public Health/Preventive Med market? It seems to be high in that happyness list. Considered it in my last year of med school and I sometimes regret not going down that path.

 

[Neopolymath]

Ortho, cuz you get to operate AND you don't have to do what you don't like

IM: You know, EKG-
Ortho: Don't know what that is, chief
IM: Sliding sc-
Ortho: Nope
IM: Potass-
Ortho: Gonna have to stop you right there
IM: But you went to medical school, you should know this!!! ARGHHHH
Ortho: Haha, sorry bro, all of that mediciny knowledge got replaced with ortho

To be honest, the main reason I seriously considered Ortho was that the specialty has unrivaled ability to do only what they want in private practice. I think most of the jokes, although objectively funny, are made by jealous people. We would all love to focus only on our area. I would love to turf everything I didn't think was relevant to my direct supervision and whine to OR admin for a flip room and new captain's chair only got receive it instantly. It's the best specialty in the hospital for people who want to get their way consistently without the negatives of vascular, CT, neuro and cardiology subspecialties.

 

[stickgirl390]

It's a specialty. Specialties have entirely separate lifestyles than internal medicine. Per studies I have seen, pulmonologists are not, in fact, all that happy, and are kind of known to be miserable.
View attachment 315790
Source: Medscape: Medscape Access

Damn Neuro is in dead last place? Why is that? All the neuro residents I’ve met are happy as a clam

 

[slowthai]

To be honest, the main reason I seriously considered Ortho was that the specialty has unrivaled ability to do only what they want in private practice. I think most of the jokes, although objectively funny, are made by jealous people. We would all love to focus only on our area. I would love to turf everything I didn't think was relevant to my direct supervision and whine to OR admin for a flip room and new captain's chair only got receive it instantly. It's the best specialty in the hospital for people who want to get their way consistently without the negatives of vascular, CT, neuro and cardiology subspecialties.

100%. I think it also stems from having to babysit ortho patients. Well, at least on the academic side. Outside of academia, it's easy money.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to be a dundyhead when it comes to medicine. Just means less non-ortho work for me loool.

 

[sharkbyte]

It's a specialty. Specialties have entirely separate lifestyles than internal medicine. Per studies I have seen, pulmonologists are not, in fact, all that happy, and are kind of known to be miserable.
Source: Medscape: Medscape Access

Damn, GI is pretty low.....not sure the sample size though

 

[Damson]

My bet is FM

 

[The wise one]

Thus the "depending on which ressource you quote";

Focus on the at work, Pulmonary med (higher than urology/plastic and tying w/ orhto), endocrinology, GE, Oncology are all IM specialties.

source: Medscape Lifestyle Report 2017: Race and Ethnicity, Bias and Burnout

Fyi, generally, someone unhappiness outside of work has nothing to do with their specialty.

Heck, Mental health and psychiatry could be the M in DREAM, still medicine >> psych. (imo)

It's a specialty. Specialties have entirely separate lifestyles than internal medicine. Per studies I have seen, pulmonologists are not, in fact, all that happy, and are kind of known to be miserable.
View attachment 315790
Source: Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[Osteoth]

Yeah but we all know pulmonary medicine docs are just retired critical care guys...grandpas are usually pretty happy people

 

[TAVR4life]

Thus the "depending on which ressource you quote";

View attachment 315809

Focus on the at work, Pulmonary med (higher than urology/plastic and tying w/ orhto), endocrinology, GE, Oncology are all IM specialties.

source: Medscape Lifestyle Report 2017: Race and Ethnicity, Bias and Burnout

Fyi, generally, someone unhappiness outside of work has nothing to do with their specialty.

Heck, Mental health and psychiatry could be the M in DREAM, still medicine >> psych. (imo)

What I get out of that is majority of doctors regardless of specialty are not happy at work...

 

[The wise one]

Well, It's all relative.

What I get out of that is majority of doctors regardless of specialty are not happy at work...

 

[Frazier]

HPM
98-99% satisfaction in choosing the field and would recommend it to others.
It's a niche sub-specialty though... if choosing it for the wrong reasons, likely not going to work out well.

Here is about 6 years worth of data on palliative fellowship graduate satisfaction. The percentages speak for themselves and to my knowledge unmatched in healthcare.

2014
View attachment 296618

2016
View attachment 296619

2018
View attachment 296620

 

[odyssey2]

HPM
98-99% satisfaction in choosing the field and would recommend it to others.
It's a niche sub-specialty though... if choosing it for the wrong reasons, likely not going to work out well.

The thing is that very few people are going into it for the wrong reasons.

 

[deleted688779]

Ortho has a very painful and tough residency, especially if at a trauma 1 center.

And then...life is great afterwards??

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

100%. I think it also stems from having to babysit ortho patients. Well, at least on the academic side. Outside of academia, it's easy money.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to be a dundyhead when it comes to medicine. Just means less non-ortho work for me loool.

That's pretty much true. I love the "stupid ortho bro" jokes as much as anyone, but that pre-op clearance on the perfectly healthy 38 y/o who tore his rotator cuff is the easiest money I'll make all day.

 

[slowthai]

And then...life is great afterwards??

No. Read this post by OrthoTraumaMD:

Help with Career

 

[solitarius]

Ortho, cuz you get to operate AND you don't have to do what you don't like

IM: You know, EKG-
Ortho: Don't know what that is, chief
IM: Sliding sc-
Ortho: Nope
IM: Potass-
Ortho: Gonna have to stop you right there
IM: But you went to medical school, you should know this!!! ARGHHHH
Ortho: Haha, sorry bro, all of that mediciny knowledge got replaced with ortho

Those tools get to dump the sick patients on general surgery.

#MeDrill #BamBamBam #Tools4Life

 

[Neopolymath]

More than specific specialties, my guess is that private practice vs employment is a big factor in happiness and satisfaction. Easier to be happy when you're the boss and have autonomy. Hard to be happy dealing with admins micro-managing you.

Can't teach this to the majority of medical students. Hell, many people in my class are specifically looking for employed positions. This makes it worse for those of us that know ownership is important.

 

[slowthai]

Can't teach this to the majority of medical students. Hell, many people in my class are specifically looking for employed positions. This makes it worse for those of us that know ownership is important.

I guess it comes down to weighing the lesser of two evils: idiotic and malignant admin, or the business side of medicine. Most med students (including me) run away from that side of things. I'm very conflicted, lol. I've gone back and forth between academia and the privademic setup for a while now. I guess we'll see when I get there.

 

[Neopolymath]

I guess it comes down to weighing the lesser of two evils: idiotic and malignant admin, or the business side of medicine. Most med students (including me) run away from that side of things. I'm very conflicted, lol. I've gone back and forth between academia and the privademic setup for a while now. I guess we'll see when I get there.

The intimidation of business is mostly unfounded by trainees as you would most likely be joining a functioning private practice on a partnership track position and not hanging a shingle from scratch. The business already works so you learn some stuff as you go. The exception would be primary care trying to go solo and to a lesser extent, psych private practice. Psych has far less business infrastructure barriers to starting a practice though and I think it shouldn't be considered near as daunting as starting your own IM office based on what a previous mentor explained about starting his psych practice from scratch.

In general, the happiest docs are working part time (or full time) after achieving financial independence because they want to work where they work. "FU money" has a way of making the little hassles of a job bother you a LOT less. In lieu of that, the second happiest docs are either in cush academic jobs or in equity holding partnerships in private practice. Take note that countless people will tell you that making 300k as a PP attending is by far better than making 400k (but billing 500k+ and working harder) working for some private equity group or hospital. If you are employed you are making someone else rich. If you are working for PE or the hospital as an employee you might be taking home 400k but the knowledge that you are really giving a parasite $100k+ of money off the top and working harder than you would in PP will weigh heavily as one progresses.

 

[Wordead]

The intimidation of business is mostly unfounded by trainees as you would most likely be joining a functioning private practice on a partnership track position and not hanging a shingle from scratch. The business already works so you learn some stuff as you go. The exception would be primary care trying to go solo and to a lesser extent, psych private practice. Psych has far less business infrastructure barriers to starting a practice though and I think it shouldn't be considered near as daunting as starting your own IM office based on what a previous mentor explained about starting his psych practice from scratch.

In general, the happiest docs are working part time (or full time) after achieving financial independence because they want to work where they work. "FU money" has a way of making the little hassles of a job bother you a LOT less. In lieu of that, the second happiest docs are either in cush academic jobs or in equity holding partnerships in private practice. Take note that countless people will tell you that making 300k as a PP attending is by far better than making 400k (but billing 500k+ and working harder) working for some private equity group or hospital. If you are employed you are making someone else rich. If you are working for PE or the hospital as an employee you might be taking home 400k but the knowledge that you are really giving a parasite $100k+ of money off the top and working harder than you would in PP will weigh heavily as one progresses.

I would be very careful about equating private practice with happiness or assuming it's better than being employed. I interviewed in both settings and a lot of private practices seem like theyre doing well but when you ask to look at their books they are not optimally run and are bleeding money. You'll also run into partnership buy ins and other things you simply have no experience with. I would consider myself reasonably financially savvy but I know there's a lot I don't know. Being a financial incompetent doctor is a classic stereotype but being overly confident in your financial savvy is even more dangerous. Also, if you're not planning to settle down in the area PP is often a losing proposition as you get a ****ty associate pay and then leave or even worse you buy in and try to leave and take heavy penalties.

I went employed and the system is larger so I get ~15% higher wRVU rates compared to the private guys. I make less than the PP guys that are long established and have ancillary incomes (which are possible and nice in ENT) but make nearly twice what the new PP guys make. And if you take a day off in PP, you're still paying overhead and not making money. All the new equipment you want you gotta pay for. I have to make the case for it with management as an employed guy but theyre willing to shell out the money for new toys and keep my group happy.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I would be very careful about equating private practice with happiness or assuming it's better than being employed. I interviewed in both settings and a lot of private practices seem like theyre doing well but when you ask to look at their books they are not optimally run and are bleeding money. You'll also run into partnership buy ins and other things you simply have no experience with. I would consider myself reasonably financially savvy but I know there's a lot I don't know. Being a financial incompetent doctor is a classic stereotype but being overly confident in your financial savvy is even more dangerous. Also, if you're not planning to settle down in the area PP is often a losing proposition as you get a ****ty associate pay and then leave or even worse you buy in and try to leave and take heavy penalties.

I went employed and the system is larger so I get ~15% higher wRVU rates compared to the private guys. I make less than the PP guys that are long established and have ancillary incomes (which are possible and nice in ENT) but make nearly twice what the new PP guys make. And if you take a day off in PP, you're still paying overhead and not making money. All the new equipment you want you gotta pay for. I have to make the case for it with management as an employed guy but theyre willing to shell out the money for new toys and keep my group happy.

As a rarity in someone my age, I have been both employed and owned my own practice. There are pros and cons to both. For me, I hated running a business. Worrying about payroll, advertising, vacation coverage, taxes, equipment all just drained the life out of me.

That said, you do have to find the right employer. I've had several who sucked so much that I still curse them and several who I would go work for again if I lived in the area.

I'm much happier showing up to work, seeing patients, and not worrying about the nuts and bolts of practice ownership.

 

[Neopolymath]

I would be very careful about equating private practice with happiness or assuming it's better than being employed. I interviewed in both settings and a lot of private practices seem like theyre doing well but when you ask to look at their books they are not optimally run and are bleeding money. You'll also run into partnership buy ins and other things you simply have no experience with. I would consider myself reasonably financially savvy but I know there's a lot I don't know. Being a financial incompetent doctor is a classic stereotype but being overly confident in your financial savvy is even more dangerous. Also, if you're not planning to settle down in the area PP is often a losing proposition as you get a ****ty associate pay and then leave or even worse you buy in and try to leave and take heavy penalties.

I went employed and the system is larger so I get ~15% higher wRVU rates compared to the private guys. I make less than the PP guys that are long established and have ancillary incomes (which are possible and nice in ENT) but make nearly twice what the new PP guys make. And if you take a day off in PP, you're still paying overhead and not making money. All the new equipment you want you gotta pay for. I have to make the case for it with management as an employed guy but theyre willing to shell out the money for new toys and keep my group happy.

All good points. I will say that your situation is slightly different than most specialties being in subspecialty surgery. Hospitals absolutely treat you guys differently than pretty much everybody else in the hospital. I will say though that my educational background is in business and finance and I have successfully run several businesses prior to going to medical school so I'm not particularly worried about things like entering into bad business deals and predatory private practice.

I still think you are far more likely to fall into a bad situation when PE and other employment models are involved based on their mission alone. These organizations make money off of you. That's why they employ you lol. That's the entire reason they exist and the amount of perks they give you plus salary will always be less than what you bill. I would rather have an internal locus of control in private practice knowing I "eat what I kill" with fair partners than know I'm taking a haircut every year personally. Sure there are semantics and nuances to the discussion (and it's not a one size fits all thing clearly) but as a trend, the people in control of their work lives are happier. I think you are far more likely to find that situation in a fair PP group.

Edit: I'll add that my perspective comes from anesthesiology and radiology. Besides surgical subs and a few other rarities, other specialties will look more like these two fields with increased corporatization making docs "do more with less" if they aren't in PP. We aren't like Ortho who gets to stomp their feet 3 times and suddenly a new Hana table appears. We are an expense that allows the hospital to funnel patients to procedure rooms so being employed is definitely not near the quality of workplace that you likely enjoy.

 

[Eye-eye]

Ophtho. 9-5 with very few emergencies, great pay overall and especially per hour, patients aren't dying on you, you can forget most non-eye medicine except that which affects the eye (and only in so much as it affects the eye), you can choose to do surg as much or little as you want... the list goes on and on. I have not met an unhappy ophthalmologist yet, and I've met quite a few. There's a reason they're still working at 80, and it's not because they have to. It's fun and not that demanding (and at that age you can just work 1/2 day a week). Highly recommend checking it out if you haven't yet.

 

[Dr.K124]

EM has shift work but they work hard non-stop for those 8 and 10 hour shifts, no downtime. Plus they have to deal with the crappy attitudes of other specialities. A lot of burnout.

Rads is like a factory line with non stop studies. It can be tough as well.

Derm is the only field that truly has a good lifestyle (and psych), but derm is being taken over mid levels as is anesthesia.

Ortho has a very painful and tough residency, especially if at a trauma 1 center.

It's like you forget Ophthalmology exists. The lifestyle is essentially the same as Derm.

Edit: And PM&R

 

[Cawolf]

Ophthalmology, check it out. Get to do surgery, have reasonable hours, and make a big impact in people's quality of life. I chose it in part because of the people I met in the field and how happy the residents and staff are.

 

[Dr.K124]

Ophthalmology, check it out. Get to do surgery, have reasonable hours, and make a big impact in people's quality of life. I chose it in part because of the people I met in the field and how happy the residents and staff are.

40-45 is a bit better than "reasonable" hours

But yes. That's three of us now recommending it. Great lifestyle, great pay, great variety, great people, and great outcomes/impacts.

 

[libertyyne]

The intimidation of business is mostly unfounded by trainees as you would most likely be joining a functioning private practice on a partnership track position and not hanging a shingle from scratch. The business already works so you learn some stuff as you go. The exception would be primary care trying to go solo and to a lesser extent, psych private practice. Psych has far less business infrastructure barriers to starting a practice though and I think it shouldn't be considered near as daunting as starting your own IM office based on what a previous mentor explained about starting his psych practice from scratch.

In general, the happiest docs are working part time (or full time) after achieving financial independence because they want to work where they work. "FU money" has a way of making the little hassles of a job bother you a LOT less. In lieu of that, the second happiest docs are either in cush academic jobs or in equity holding partnerships in private practice. Take note that countless people will tell you that making 300k as a PP attending is by far better than making 400k (but billing 500k+ and working harder) working for some private equity group or hospital. If you are employed you are making someone else rich. If you are working for PE or the hospital as an employee you might be taking home 400k but the knowledge that you are really giving a parasite $100k+ of money off the top and working harder than you would in PP will weigh heavily as one progresses.

Someone is always siphoning off money from the top , in private practice it is the office manager , billing, malpractice, plaintiff attorneys,other admin or insurers who are squeezing you while paying the hospital down the street full freight .
it seems like in America the majority of white collar work that pays decently is being a middleman .