Which of these electives help in GS Residency

[lordman]

I have the chance to do 2 months of Surgical electives,
I want to ask which of these electives would help in General Surgery Residency as an experience ?

Since Core Clerkships & some divisions are not allowed for visiting students, I have these choices only :

- Gastrointestinal Surgery elective
- Orthopedic Surgery elective
- Plastic Surgery elective
- Neurosurgery acting Internship elective


So what 2 choices are better electives for General Surgery Residency ?

In other words, Does it make difference for GS chances if I do Surgical Subspecialities like GI or CT Surgical electives or Non-sub like Ortho, plastic or neurosurg ??

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[Winged Scapula]

I have the chance to do 2 months of Surgical electives,
I want to ask which of these electives would help in General Surgery Residency as an experience ?

Since Core Clerkships & some divisions are not allowed for visiting students, I have these choices only :

- Gastrointestinal Surgery elective
- Orthopedic Surgery elective
- Plastic Surgery elective
- Neurosurgery acting Internship elective


So what 2 choices are better electives for General Surgery Residency ?

In other words, Does it make difference for GS chances if I do Surgical Subspecialities like GI or CT Surgical electives or Non-sub like Ortho, plastic or neurosurg ??

It depends on what your goals are.

If your goals are to get good LORs, then yes...it does make a difference and you should choose General Surgery subspecialities rather than PRS, Ortho or Nsgy.

If your goals are to gain experience for your General Surgery residency (which you imply in your first sentence), then any of them will have some use save for Ortho (which does have some use, but there are very few general surgeons in the US doing any Ortho procedures).

 

[lordman]

It depends on what your goals are.

If your goals are to get good LORs, then yes...it does make a difference and you should choose General Surgery subspecialities rather than PRS, Ortho or Nsgy.

If your goals are to gain experience for your General Surgery residency (which you imply in your first sentence), then any of them will have some use save for Ortho (which does have some use, but there are very few general surgeons in the US doing any Ortho procedures).

Thank you for reply, My goal is to get got LORS & experience to increase my chances in General Surgery Program match...

So I understand that I have to take one month in GI Surgery since it is a sub.
But what would be for the second month ?
After list revision, I have these choices only:

- Orthopedic Surgery elective
- Plastic Surgery elective
- Neurosurgery acting Internship elective
- Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery elective
- Pediatric Plastic Surgery elective
- Pediatric Neurosurgery elective

So what would be better to for my goal ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Smurfette]

GI surgery (obviously the most related to GS)
Plastics elective (get some sewing experience and see some cool flaps, reconstructive surg)

OMFS and ortho electives would be least helpful.
Neurosurg AI could be painful especially if you are not interested in neurosurg
Peds rotations in my experience are not very hands-on for students since everything is so small and parents are so uptight.

 

[lordman]

Thank you very much for the reply

 

[Winged Scapula]

GI surgery (obviously the most related to GS)
Plastics elective (get some sewing experience and see some cool flaps, reconstructive surg)

OMFS and ortho electives would be least helpful.
Neurosurg AI could be painful especially if you are not interested in neurosurg
Peds rotations in my experience are not very hands-on for students since everything is so small and parents are so uptight.

Agree with Smurfette. Since your goal is to get LORs from General Surgeons your choices should be (if indeed limited to the list you have provided) GI/Abdominal Surgery and PRS.

As she notes, Peds Surgeons/Intensivists/Pediatricians are notorious for not letting you do anything and it can be painful.

NSGY can be frustrating and again, not much hands on stuff for students, although you would get a fair bit of ICU management.

Ortho and OMFS are not options, IMHO.

 

[lordman]

Thank you very much

 

[JackADeli]

I have the chance to do 2 months of Surgical electives,
I want to ask which of these electives would help in General Surgery Residency as an experience ?

Since Core Clerkships & some divisions are not allowed for visiting students, I have these choices only :

- Gastrointestinal Surgery elective
- Orthopedic Surgery elective
- Plastic Surgery elective
- Neurosurgery acting Internship elective


So what 2 choices are better electives for General Surgery Residency ?

In other words, Does it make difference for GS chances if I do Surgical Subspecialities like GI or CT Surgical electives or Non-sub like Ortho, plastic or neurosurg ??...

I am with WS in general. The way you have posted this is not fully clear. Are you looking for educational experi3nce that will make you a better resident or a better residency applicant? You say "as an experience" and "better electives for General Surgery Residency". Then you state, "Does it make difference for GS chances".

Your choices are limited. I think for both questions, IMHO, it is a no brainer, GI Surgery and Plastic Surgery. Your list did not have CT. Though, depending on your divisions, plastics can be better then CT or vice versus.

Now, to get hypothetical, presuming you had more then the 4 "ONLY" list to choose from, but where still limited by "surgical" category, and were looking for education improvement rather then application/LOR improvement, I suggest the following:

1. If your program is like many, anesthesia (often listed as a surgical elective).
2. SICU or CICU (if run by anesthesia/ICU attendings)
3. +/- wound care/burn rotation

If you could do non-surgery electives, again for education enhancement, I would recomend:

1. ID
2. pulm, nephrology, or MICU

 

[filter07]

For residency preparation, I wonder if Ortho or Neurosurg might be helpful for Trauma. I pick up things here and there as I go but I don't spend a lot of dedicated time reading about orthopedic injuries and what needs to be referred to a consultant or not... Neurosurg I think is more straightforward, or at least more critical so I think we tend to learn that better.

 

[Winged Scapula]

For residency preparation, I wonder if Ortho or Neurosurg might be helpful for Trauma. I pick up things here and there as I go but I don't spend a lot of dedicated time reading about orthopedic injuries and what needs to be referred to a consultant or not... Neurosurg I think is more straightforward, or at least more critical so I think we tend to learn that better.

I guess if you were training in a hospital without Ortho or Nsgy in house it might be helpful.

For me, it didn't matter because anyone with an Ortho or Nsgy injury got a consult, or those residents always showed up in the trauma bay anyway just to check things out.

 

[LucidSplash]

I guess if you were training in a hospital without Ortho or Nsgy in house it might be helpful.

For me, it didn't matter because anyone with an Ortho or Nsgy injury got a consult, or those residents always showed up in the trauma bay anyway just to check things out.

Same here. Where I am we have an Ortho residency but not NSurg. Basically we know who needs NSurg and who doesn't. Frequently we know if someone needs immediate Ortho attention or if the Ortho recs will be for outpt or non-op management. However, they still get called. The NSurg PAs come to leave recs and discuss the pt with the attending and the Ortho residents to leave recs and discuss with attendings.

 

[lordman]

I am with WS in general. The way you have posted this is not fully clear. Are you looking for educational experi3nce that will make you a better resident or a better residency applicant? You say "as an experience" and "better electives for General Surgery Residency". Then you state, "Does it make difference for GS chances".

Your choices are limited. I think for both questions, IMHO, it is a no brainer, GI Surgery and Plastic Surgery. Your list did not have CT. Though, depending on your divisions, plastics can be better then CT or vice versus.

Now, to get hypothetical, presuming you had more then the 4 "ONLY" list to choose from, but where still limited by "surgical" category, and were looking for education improvement rather then application/LOR improvement, I suggest the following:

1. If your program is like many, anesthesia (often listed as a surgical elective).
2. SICU or CICU (if run by anesthesia/ICU attendings)
3. +/- wound care/burn rotation

If you could do non-surgery electives, again for education enhancement, I would recomend:

1. ID
2. pulm, nephrology, or MICU

Thank you for reply, I am sorry If I mixed between two issues.
I want to get LORs to increase my chances in GS match, since I am a student not resident.

Yeas, my choices are limited...So all of you have the same answer, GI & Plastic are the best in my list,
I will try to get an exception for CT or Thoracic (yes, they have both!) or Surgical Critical Care elective....

Thank you all

 

[JackADeli]

...Yeas, my choices are limited...
I will try to get an exception for CT or Thoracic (yes, they have both!) or Surgical Critical Care elective...

If you have a choice, and depending on the caliber of the programs, I would encourage non-cardiac thoracic over CV. Thoracic is closer to general surgery, the oncology aspects often overlap with surgical oncology, etc... You may also have more participation in the cases and less protocol driven care then say cardiac. Also, you may be more participatory in the team in thoracic. So, if that was an option, I would suggest GI surgery and thoracic vs plastic....

 

[ZagDoc]

If you need an easy elective to plug in that would actually highly benefit your surgical education, consider a month in pathology too.

Try to avoid the microscopes as much as possible and learn more about how common lab assays are run, how surg path is handled, cut up some gross specimens, etc.

 

[lordman]

Thank you for advice....

 

[JackADeli]

So, if you are limited to your original short list of options, yes, I would recommend GI surgery and PRS over ortho and neuro. If PRS has specific service splits, i.e. aesthetics vs congenital/pedes vs breast vs oncology reconstruction vs etc... I would steer away from the aesthetics/cosmetics. But, I can't advise much beyond that on the other splits that may exist where you are training.

 

[MEATHEAD]

I think a GREAT non-surgical elective (and it's something I did) was a month of Hospice and Palliative care... Learning how to deal with not only elderly but also the critically ill patients with conflicting family situations was VERY beneficial rotation for me. My particular attending was part of the hospital Ethics committee and we were called often for things like family members and GI docs wanting a patient to get a PEG tube, but ICU/Pulm CC docs/Surgeons saying that it is completely pointless since the patient is clearly going to NOT get better with it...

Surgery electives are great for letters and connections, but you are going to spend the next 5-7+ years learning how to operate, so definitely make sure you learn a little bit of the other stuff also.

My 2cents

 

[lordman]

Thank you very much Dr. Jack & Dr.MeatHead

 

[lordman]

What about Transplant Surgery elective, is it good for my goal (good lors for GS match) ?

 

[ACSurgeon]

What about Transplant Surgery elective, is it good for my goal (good lors for GS match) ?

I think transplant LOR's are just as good as gen surg letters. If you're interested and can do well, I say go for it.

 

[lordman]

Thanks Lazymed.

 

[lordman]

I have additional choices,
1)doing colorectal surgery for 2 months...
or
2)doing Surgical critical care for 2 months

Are these choices better that those I put in the thread above
Which choice is good for my goal ( good LORs to increase GS spot chance) ??
Or doing 1 month Colorectal & another month Plastics would be better ??
Is doing one speciality like Colorectal Surgery for 2 months is disadvantage ??

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I have additional choices,
1)doing colorectal surgery for 2 months...
or
2)doing Surgical critical care for 2 months

Are these choices better that those I put in the thread above
Which choice is good for my goal ( good LORs to increase GS spot chance) ??
Or doing 1 month Colorectal & another month Plastics would be better ??
Is doing one speciality like Colorectal Surgery for 2 months is disadvantage ??

No need to do one thing for the entire 2 months if you don't have to. That's overkill. If possible, I'd do 1 month colorectal and 1 month surgical critical care. That would actually be the highest yield for both LORs/chances and preparing you for internship. Even better if the surgical critical care staff are Trauma/Critical Care attendings. Though I think it has been discussed, and from what I recall, the general consensus seems to be that a strong letter from a non-surgeon in surgical critical care can work if it's a "4th letter".

I'd argue that doing a critical care month should be a must for everyone interested in surgery. (Though I admit it can be very program dependent--some aren't worth the time. A strong critical care rotation is invaluable, though)

 

[surglover]

Thanks for the OP for that Topic.
As an IMG too, What about Vascular Surgery elective ? is it equal to General Sur,Oncology Sur...etc elective ??????????????????????????