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I know it is too early to post rank lists, but what programs do you plan on ranking in the top 3? Of course I don't know every program, so I can't list them all. I guess I'll just list "biggies".
Which ones will you rank in the top 3?
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^ugh sorry. Just pick "other", and, if you want, post the name (or don't). The only problem with posting the name is you lose a little of the anonymity of it all.
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Im fairly convinced now that where do you do your residency has little to no bearing on your success as a pathologist. In fact, Im starting to believe there is a more of an inverse correlation between future income and top academic programs.
Ive said my peace...Carry on.
Ive said my peace...Carry on.
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That's probably true to a large extent. It probably correlates a bit because the better candidates go to better programs, and it perpetuates the system. If great students decided to all go to small community programs, they would all still pass the boards and probably get great jobs as well. Where you do your residency does matter, but what matters more is being someone that people want to hire. As it is now, if you train at a program that is not so great some people might wonder why, but if you have a good story, not as much.
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There seems to be a big "name game" going on, not just in Path but in a lot of different fields. I've interviewed at a few places that are associated with more name brand hospitals/med schools that I really didn't think were much better if at all than some of the smaller places, but since they carry the recognizable name everyone is trying to go there. I remember when I was considering going to internal medicine (before I saw the light), a higher up in the dept at my home institution flat out said it really isn't that great a program and don't come here for the name. That said, some programs clearly stand out and deserve their reputations, but it isn't a given.
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It looks like JHU, Stanford and Other get their top picks.
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CURRENT/FUTURE Big Name + workplace conducive to training + good fit = good training.
However, notice the variables.
- Today's "big name places" (at least some of them) very much live on past reputation, while less big-name try harder to catch up (see MDA vs. MSKCC for an excellent example).
- Big name, where stars are touring the world, giving lectures in exotic locates isn't exactly helpful to the leaning experience.
- Big name, where attendings aren't really interested in teaching equals less-than-perfect learning environment (this is often a major factor).
- Big name, where chemistry with colleagues doesn't work, isn't going to be that joyful a ride.
All that being said, what you'd want out of a Residency is heavy exposure to a lot of the general stuff, and at least a working knowledge of wherein the pitfalls lies in the difficult cases. If you end up in a community setting where they mainly look at PAP smears and send anything odd-looking on out for consults, that's probably not a good thing. If you end up at a super-specilized place that only see weird cases of mostly academic interest, that's not really a good thing either.
Personally, I did my Boot Camp Training in ok but fairly average semi-academic setting, but later went on to current Big Name places. Frankly, I was really amazed by the latter. But mind you, that was post-residency, and wouldn't necessarily be such a lovely assignment if I was green out of med school.
Also, of course, contacts made during Residency is important for future employment. In that regard, be aware that if you go to super-academic places, you can make a ton of contacts, but that'll be with equally super-academically minded ppl, so it wouldn't necessarily be the place to be, if you're looking for the track towards FFF (fast financial freedom).
Looking at the poll so far, I'm a bit surprised that JHU is getting so much love. Sure, it's a great place, but still in a very crummy place. Then again, to each their own. Thankfully, I am past the Nightmare That Is Called Residency. Still, if I venture onto Hell and is asked at the gates which Residency I'd do if I had to do it all over again, my pick - sans first or second looks - would be BWH.
PS: For all youse ppl out there doing your Excel-spreadsheets and regression analysis (good thing you're not going into psych), remember to incorporate the variable: Where do I want to do my three Fellowships?
However, notice the variables.
- Today's "big name places" (at least some of them) very much live on past reputation, while less big-name try harder to catch up (see MDA vs. MSKCC for an excellent example).
- Big name, where stars are touring the world, giving lectures in exotic locates isn't exactly helpful to the leaning experience.
- Big name, where attendings aren't really interested in teaching equals less-than-perfect learning environment (this is often a major factor).
- Big name, where chemistry with colleagues doesn't work, isn't going to be that joyful a ride.
All that being said, what you'd want out of a Residency is heavy exposure to a lot of the general stuff, and at least a working knowledge of wherein the pitfalls lies in the difficult cases. If you end up in a community setting where they mainly look at PAP smears and send anything odd-looking on out for consults, that's probably not a good thing. If you end up at a super-specilized place that only see weird cases of mostly academic interest, that's not really a good thing either.
Personally, I did my Boot Camp Training in ok but fairly average semi-academic setting, but later went on to current Big Name places. Frankly, I was really amazed by the latter. But mind you, that was post-residency, and wouldn't necessarily be such a lovely assignment if I was green out of med school.
Also, of course, contacts made during Residency is important for future employment. In that regard, be aware that if you go to super-academic places, you can make a ton of contacts, but that'll be with equally super-academically minded ppl, so it wouldn't necessarily be the place to be, if you're looking for the track towards FFF (fast financial freedom).
Looking at the poll so far, I'm a bit surprised that JHU is getting so much love. Sure, it's a great place, but still in a very crummy place. Then again, to each their own. Thankfully, I am past the Nightmare That Is Called Residency. Still, if I venture onto Hell and is asked at the gates which Residency I'd do if I had to do it all over again, my pick - sans first or second looks - would be BWH.
PS: For all youse ppl out there doing your Excel-spreadsheets and regression analysis (good thing you're not going into psych), remember to incorporate the variable: Where do I want to do my three Fellowships?
B
b&ierstiefel
BTW, residency isn't that bad of a nightmare...now talk to me in a year when I'm preparing for AP boards
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I thought it was just me. Having spent a little time at JHU, I can see why it's appealing IF you're looking into academics as a career. Otherwise
Just curious, are people generally ranking thier top 3 based on reputation as the numbers would indicate?
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Upenn is not on the list??? That's radiculous!
It's a stupid poll. My advice would be to ignore it and all potential ramifications thereof, because for many reasons it is invalid.
1) Too many programs on it
2) Too many programs not on it
3) The option to vote for multiple programs
4) We have no idea who is doing the voting, or who is not doing the voting.
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This poll is scaring the bejesus out of me!
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b&ierstiefel
Exactly...who knows what kind of ppl have been voting on this poll. I personally did not since I'm not applying...and I've posted my rank list a long time ago.
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Yeah, personally I voted for Cornell, Columbia, and Sinai because everyone knows NYC is the greatest place on earth and the only people who aren't there are those who are jealous of those who are! I only wish I had the testicular fortitude to survive in Manhattan.
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There are so many things running through my mind right now. How does your personal statement look?
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Interesting trends.
The balance between MGH and BWH seems consistent.
It is strange though the imbalance between UCSF and Stanford. Perhaps Stanford has slightly more history in pathology and maybe some people just aren't interested in living in an expensive ultra-urban city like San Francisco and prefer bucolic palo alto.
It is also curious that Univ of Chi has 5 votes and Northwestern has 0.
The discrepancy between Columbia, Sinai and Cornell probably has to do with the fact that you can rent rooms in the upper east side for way below market rates at Cornell.
Also not much love for Souther Cal. I know that it is a hot region for other specialties.
And JHU's domination is a bit shocking. So it is coming down to JHU vs. Other.
The balance between MGH and BWH seems consistent.
It is strange though the imbalance between UCSF and Stanford. Perhaps Stanford has slightly more history in pathology and maybe some people just aren't interested in living in an expensive ultra-urban city like San Francisco and prefer bucolic palo alto.
It is also curious that Univ of Chi has 5 votes and Northwestern has 0.
The discrepancy between Columbia, Sinai and Cornell probably has to do with the fact that you can rent rooms in the upper east side for way below market rates at Cornell.
Also not much love for Souther Cal. I know that it is a hot region for other specialties.
And JHU's domination is a bit shocking. So it is coming down to JHU vs. Other.
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The cost of living isn't much different between Palo Alto and San Francisco. If you peruse www.craigslist.org you can find similar rent for similar places. Its probably more of a function of how people feel during their interview for the place, and like you said, whether they want to live in the suburbs or the city.
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I don't know what it's like on the West coast, but from the people in pathology that I know (on the East coast), Stanford has a much better reputation for training diagnostic pathologists. UCSF is considered a good place to go to become a basic science researcher. I don't have any personal knowledge of these two programs (I cancelled my Stanford interview), but maybe that explains the difference?
I think just about everyone ranks U of C higher than NW (although definitely not based on location).
I really liked Hopkins, but I am also kind of surprised at it's domination (at least in this small, unscientific poll). Most people are scared to death of Baltimore (even though it isn't all that bad).
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Sorry, man, don't mean to poke fun but this is frickin hilarious.
New Haven: Awful small city or small awful city? I vote the latter!
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b&ierstiefel
That was my impression as well. Back when I was interviewing, the appeal of UCSF (which is why I ranked it quite high) was that specimen volume was relatively low compared to the # residents, which meant less clinical work, more time to think about postdocs, and Abbas seemed like a good mentor (and funding source) for the physician-scientist types. Stanford's focus was more on diagnostics...at least that's the impression I left with. That's not a bad thing either. I don't think I gave Stanford my undivided attention though since it was my last interview and I was quite burned out and my give-a-damn meter was at a 1 out of 10.
Most of my peers applied to U of C and did not even apply to NW.
Great program...no surprise here.
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So it is still neck and neck between other and JHU. It looks like Stanford has been dropped back with BWH and MGH.
One suprising thing is how So Cal (USC, UCSD, UCLA) and Southwest in general (new mexico, Colorado, Utah) are getting killed my the Midwest. In most other fields and in most other professions So Cal/southwest are much more desired than the Midwest. Curious....
and Nor Cal is devastating So Cal, but that isn't that suprising as most people love SF over So Cal.
One suprising thing is how So Cal (USC, UCSD, UCLA) and Southwest in general (new mexico, Colorado, Utah) are getting killed my the Midwest. In most other fields and in most other professions So Cal/southwest are much more desired than the Midwest. Curious....
and Nor Cal is devastating So Cal, but that isn't that suprising as most people love SF over So Cal.
