Which school would be better for specializing

[Dr.Narcos]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So heres the story, I recently was accepted to Marian University as well as VCOM-Auburn.

I have been stalking their sites and looking at residency placements and Matches. I saw VCOM has one of the highest percentages of first choice match rates. That is a plus but VCOM is very very family med oriented. Im not interested in fam med but not totally opposed to primary care. Any insight on which school would be better for specializing?

Also Marian says they have better partnerships with hospitals. Im not sure if that will help.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Match rate is student performance (board scores) dependent, not school dependent.

 

[deleted610572]

Marian does. Look at mandatory attendance, amount of research you can actually get, how many weeks of dedicated, clinical rotation sites, where the students tend to match geographically, etc.

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Marian does. Look at mandatory attendance, amount of research you can actually get, how many weeks of dedicated, clinical rotation sites, where the students tend to match geographically, etc.

Would you say mandatory attendance is a good or bad thing?

 

[deleted610572]

Would you say mandatory attendance is a good or bad thing?

Very very very bad thing. I regret choosing the school that had it. I had both options but I thought mandatory attendance was overblown on sdn. I was so wrong.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Would you say mandatory attendance is a good or bad thing?

Dude its a horrrible thing. It shouldnt be legal. How in the heck do you get time to study? lol What century are these schools in? Not everyone sits in class and learns by listening. I can count times i went to class fall semester M1 on my fingers on one hand

 

[Deecee2DO]

Matching is on you not the school. Destroy Step 1, make connections, do research and do well in clinicals (M3/4). Also depends what you wanna specialize in. some specialties you wont need research others you will. Also VCOM first choice match rate thing is skewed bc they all wanna do rural primary care since the school pushes that. of course theyll get their first choice. its marketing

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Matching is on you not the school. Destroy Step 1, make connections, do research and do well in clinicals (M3/4). Also depends what you wanna specialize in. some specialties you wont need research others you will. Also VCOM first choice match rate thing is skewed bc they all wanna do rural primary care since the school pushes that. of course theyll get their first choice. its marketing

I have seen their curriculum and they only offer 1 elective. Isn't that a bad thing? By the time you hit forth year you only did 1 rotation in an elective rotation. Then you have to apply for residency

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Matching is on you not the school. Destroy Step 1, make connections, do research and do well in clinicals (M3/4). Also depends what you wanna specialize in. some specialties you wont need research others you will. Also VCOM first choice match rate thing is skewed bc they all wanna do rural primary care since the school pushes that. of course theyll get their first choice. its marketing

Im interested in anesthesia, cardio, surgery

 

[Deecee2DO]

I have seen their curriculum and they only offer 1 elective. Isn't that a bad thing? By the time you hit forth year you only did 1 rotation in an elective rotation. Then you have to apply for residency

Thats what M4 is for: elective rotations and vacation

 

[Mad Jack]

Very very very bad thing. I regret choosing the school that had it. I had both options but I thought mandatory attendance was overblown on sdn. I was so wrong.

Mandatory attendance is an abomination for those of us that don't learn well via structured lecture. I would have failed out if my school had mandatory attendance

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Very very very bad thing. I regret choosing the school that had it. I had both options but I thought mandatory attendance was overblown on sdn. I was so wrong.

VCOM is 9-4 M-F unfortunately

 

[Deecee2DO]

Im interested in anesthesia, cardio, surgery

Anesthesia and gen surg are DO friendly and only moderately competitive. Cards is competitive. surg subs are VERY competitive and tough as a DO unless superstar. You dont need research for anesthesia

 

[Goro]

Match rate is student performance (board scores) dependent, not school dependent.

And student-dependent.

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Thats what M4 is for: elective rotations and vacation

But don't you have to apply/interview for residency early on in 4th year?

 

[Deecee2DO]

But don't you have to apply/interview for residency early on in 4th year?

Reach out to an M4 whos done it or @Goro im an M1 so my knowledge of residency stuff/curriculum is eh

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Anesthesia is DO friendly and only moderately competitive. Cards is competitive. Gen surg is kind of competitive. surg subs are VERY competitive and tough as a DO unless superstar. You dont need research for anesthesia

So general is the most realistic out of all surgery specialties?

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Marian does. Look at mandatory attendance, amount of research you can actually get, how many weeks of dedicated, clinical rotation sites, where the students tend to match geographically, etc.

And student-dependent.

Reach out to an M4 whos done it or @Goro im an M1 so my knowledge of residency stuff/curriculum is eh

Thanks I'll reach out

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Lots of things can change before you becoming a 3rd yr. Rotation sites come and go, hospitals get bought. The best thing you can do is make yourself the best candidate possible and most schools can do that. The newer ones are still getting their act together. I would pick an established school, if possible, and get the best board score I can. Plan audition rotations at places you would hope to match, go there and shine. School name wont be much of a factor. Good luck and best wishes

 

[deleted610572]

Mandatory attendance is an abomination for those of us that don't learn well via structured lecture. I would have failed out if my school had mandatory attendance

Your school now does from what I hear.

 

[Deecee2DO]

So general is the most realistic out of all surgery specialties?

Yes definitely general isnt THAT competitive. Its doable as a DO for sure just gotta work hard. Most competitive surg subs are Ortho, Plastics, NSurg, ENT. Extremely competitive. Ortho as a DO is more doable of the subs but usually AOA (historically DO residencies) residencies not ACGME (historically MD) the whole merger thing is dumb because its not gonna change the minds of PRogram directors anyway.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

Mandatory PBL sessions in the middle of the day are even worse than mandatory attendance

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Mandatory attendance is an abomination for those of us that don't learn well via structured lecture. I would have failed out if my school had mandatory attendance

Your school now does from what I hear.

Mandatory PBL sessions in the middle of the day are even worse than mandatory attendance

So other than mandatory PBL and Mandatory Lecture, anything else I should look out for?

 

[deleted610572]

Just get the most amount of free time in the first 2 years and with the most research opportunities available to you. Then 3rd/4th make sure you are getting a decent clinical education so you are competent

 

[Deecee2DO]

So other than mandatory PBL and Mandatory Lecture, anything else I should look out for?

Yes. Go to a more established DO school. better rotation sites and opportunity for connections (if any) and curriculum has had time to be tweekd and played with. Stay away from new schools if can

 

[Mad Jack]

So other than mandatory PBL and Mandatory Lecture, anything else I should look out for?

Mandatory PBL wasn't bad actually, my school did it well and it was only 3-5 hours per week. But 25+ hours of lecture get ALL THE NOPE

 

[Deecee2DO]

IMO optimal=traditional lecture no mandatory attendance. Depends how you learn. Regardless, spaced repitition=goalz

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Yes. Go to a more established DO school. better rotation sites and opportunity for connections (if any) and curriculum has had time to be tweekd and played with. Stay away from new schools if can

I know Marian is fairly new but VCOM-Auburn is a new campus but has other 2 campuses that have been around. They follow the same curriculum.

 

[deleted610572]

Which part of the country are you from

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Which part of the country are you from

FL

 

[deleted610572]

FL

Harder choice then lol. I was hoping you were going to say out west. If you are looking for just the better school then I’d prob go with Marian but I can understand wanting to be closer to home.

 

[Dr.Narcos]

Yep thats the dilemma lol

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Anesthesia and gen surg are DO friendly and only moderately competitive. Cards is competitive. surg subs are VERY competitive and tough as a DO unless superstar. You dont need research for anesthesia

While GS isn't as competitive as the surgical subs it is one of the more DO UNfriendly fields that exists. Still realistic but anyone applying to traditionally MD programs needs to be better than the MDs applying to those programs.

So general is the most realistic out of all surgery specialties?

Yes, as in you need to be an above average applicant as compared to a superstar.

 

[Goro]

While GS isn't as competitive as the surgical subs it is one of the more DO UNfriendly fields that exists. Still realistic but anyone applying to traditionally MD programs needs to be better than the MDs applying to those programs.
Yes, as in you need to be an above average applicant as compared to a superstar.

To follow up my young colleague's comments, according to the Program Director's survey, only 25% of PDs will often interview and rank a DO.

 

[Osminog]

To follow up my young colleague's comments, according to the Program Director's survey, only 25% of PDs will often interview and rank a DO.

It's actually 37%.

Source: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf (page 154)

 

[theriverman]

VCOM is 9-4 M-F unfortunately

It's not really. The stuff that's mandatory in the afternoons (OMM, anatomy lab) are mandatory everywhere. After the first block or two I pretty much never went to afternoon class unless I wanted to. Yes, mandatory attendance sucks, but it's not 9-4 every day.

 

[Goro]

It's actually 37%.

View attachment 246122
Source: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf (page 154)

Is that for Gen Surg? I haven't looked at the entire new survey. To go from 25 to 37% is pretty good!!!

 

[Gurby]

Something not mentioned yet:
I’d consider what kind of research you might like to do, and find out which schools produce a lot of that. Literally go to the websites of affiliated hospitals, look at the attendings in the cardiology and surgery departments, and look them up on pubmed to see who publishes a lot. If the cardiology department at one school’s hospital puts out 30 papers/year and the other puts out 0, that’s something to think about.

WRT lectures:
Easy for me to say this since my lectures aren’t usually required... But can’t you just sit in the back and do Anki while ignoring the lecture? I think having required “traditional” lectures (ie death by powerpoint) shouldn’t be too big of a determining factor.

As alluded to above though, mandatory small groups and PBL are dangerous because participation is usually expected of you, so it’s often harder to ignore what’s going on and follow your own agenda.

 

[Osminog]

Is that for Gen Surg? I haven't looked at the entire new survey. To go from 25 to 37% is pretty good!!!

It's for general surgery. And yeah, it was 25% in the 2016 survey. Pretty big increase.

 

[Dr.Narcos]

It's not really. The stuff that's mandatory in the afternoons (OMM, anatomy lab) are mandatory everywhere. After the first block or two I pretty much never went to afternoon class unless I wanted to. Yes, mandatory attendance sucks, but it's not 9-4 every day.

So about how long are you in lecture per day? Also I do know they have assigned seating so as for the anki idea I guess its sorta luck...

 

[DrMcLovin]

I would go with Marian. Probably just a coincidence but I rotated/interviewed with 4 guys from VCOM who ended up not matching. They said nobody at any VCOM campus matched ortho.

 

[theriverman]

So about how long are you in lecture per day? Also I do know they have assigned seating so as for the anki idea I guess its sorta luck...

We got to pick our seats. Don't think that's changed. I sat on the very side and goofed off in lecture or tried to study. Expect until lunch every day pretty much. The way they calculate is based on number of half days and you have to attend like 80% of half days, so at least when I was in pre-clinicals we could miss like 21 half days a quarter. Some missed more, IDK if there were consequences. I really don't think our attendance policy is what would make me choose VCOM or not. The way we test is the biggest thing. Look up what our block schedules look like and see if it works for you. If it looks good, lean VCOM. If it looks to hectic for you then go elsewhere. That's the make or break thing about VCOM.

I would go with Marian. Probably just a coincidence but I rotated/interviewed with 4 guys from VCOM who ended up not matching. They said nobody at any VCOM campus matched ortho.

VCOM-Auburn is matching our first class this year and has like 12 people applying ortho. One of our hospitals has (from what I understand) THE AOA ortho program (Hughston clinic), so I think we drew an unusual amount of people interested in ortho. Plus, James Andrews is Auburn's head surgeon and team doctor, and most of the team doctors outside of Andrews and Goodlett work for VCOM and are super involved with our sports med group. I guess we'll see in March how good our match list looks.

 

[Dr.Narcos]

We got to pick our seats. Don't think that's changed. I sat on the very side and goofed off in lecture or tried to study. Expect until lunch every day pretty much. The way they calculate is based on number of half days and you have to attend like 80% of half days, so at least when I was in pre-clinicals we could miss like 21 half days a quarter. Some missed more, IDK if there were consequences. I really don't think our attendance policy is what would make me choose VCOM or not. The way we test is the biggest thing. Look up what our block schedules look like and see if it works for you. If it looks good, lean VCOM. If it looks to hectic for you then go elsewhere. That's the make or break thing about VCOM.


VCOM-Auburn is matching our first class this year and has like 12 people applying ortho. One of our hospitals has (from what I understand) THE AOA ortho program (Hughston clinic), so I think we drew an unusual amount of people interested in ortho. Plus, James Andrews is Auburn's head surgeon and team doctor, and most of the team doctors outside of Andrews and Goodlett work for VCOM and are super involved with our sports med group. I guess we'll see in March how good our match list looks.

I saw the block schedule. It does seem hectic but it is also nice once the block ends you get the week off unless you need to retake. What were your thoughts on the testing schedule?

 

[theriverman]

I saw the block schedule. It does seem hectic but it is also nice once the block ends you get the week off unless you need to retake. What were your thoughts on the testing schedule?

Block schedule is awesome. Testing schedule sucked for me. It burned me out a little bit until we were done with anatomy lab. Some people liked the testing schedule because it allowed you to cram/not worry about the easy stuff/classes that you're doing really well in, but I thought the hecticness outweighed that.

 

[OrgoWizard]

I'd go with whichever one you feel you would enjoy more

 

[rg2o3]

Mandatory attendance is the worst thing I have ever experienced. I would have a relatively normal life if I didn't have to waste my entire day listening to someone read me slides.

 

[4thtimeretaker]

Block schedule is awesome. Testing schedule sucked for me. It burned me out a little bit until we were done with anatomy lab. Some people liked the testing schedule because it allowed you to cram/not worry about the easy stuff/classes that you're doing really well in, but I thought the hecticness outweighed that.

From what I've read about from students at other campuses is that people come to mandatory attendance, sit in the back with headphones in, and do their own thing (i.e. review previous recorded lectures at 2x speed, practice questions, etc). Is it true that people do this?

 

[mc29012]

It's actually 37%.

View attachment 246122
Source: https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf (page 154)

Forgive my ignorance but what is "pathway"

 

[Osminog]

Forgive my ignorance but what is "pathway"

Good question. It refers to the "Fifth Pathway," a now-discontinued program that allowed foreign medical school graduates to get a US MD degree by doing supervised clinical rotations here.

 

[theriverman]

From what I've read about from students at other VCOM campuses is that people come to mandatory attendance, sit in the back with headphones in, and do their own thing (i.e. review previous recorded lectures at 2x speed, practice questions, etc). Is it true that people do this?

Yes, people do this.