Which schools are doing VITA?

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Hellogoodbye90 said:
Have there been decisions yet?
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????? This won't be a thing unless and until IIs go out at schools that are using it. A little early to be asking about it on 7/14! 🙂

"The scheduling process for the AAMC VITA interview is initiated by a participating medical school. An applicant selected to complete the AAMC VITA interview will be invited in a series of emails:
  1. Participating medical schools will select applicants they want to invite to complete the AAMC VITA interview on a rolling basis starting in July 2020.
  2. HireVue will send AAMC VITA invitation emails every Thursday (anticipated) from August 2020 through April 30, 2021.
  3. HireVue will send reminder emails between August 2020 and April 2021 until you complete the AAMC VITA interview."
 
M&L said:
oh wow!!!! This is new!!!! Does anyone know what is this about? @gyngyn @Goro @LizzyM ?
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You can read about it on the AAMC website. There was also a thread about it when it was first announced. Just another hoop to jump through. Maybe eventually a CASPer replacement. Kind of evil if you Google how this HireVue technology is used in hiring decisions.

Basically, we will be asked to record webcam responses to text prompts, and then an algorithm will use artificial intelligence to score our responses, body language, eye contact, tone, etc., etc. etc., and send the results to every school that participates. Seems very Big Brothery, but companies that use it to make hiring decisions love it while candidates hate it, so why wouldn't AAMC think it would be great to base medical school admissions decisions on it, since being hired to be an analyst at an investment bank is so similar to being a med student? Why not use a performance in front of a webcam, as determined by a computer, as an input in making med school admission decisions??? :laugh:

I just wish we could know which schools would be requiring it BEFORE submitting applications, so we could opt out before spending money on primaries and secondaries, but, alas, even that is asking too much. Seller's market. :laugh: Maybe next year.
 
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gyngyn said:
I can't imagine very many will do this.
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I PRAY you are right!!!! On the other hand, why is AAMC venturing into such a controversial space if it doesn't have support from member schools?

Also, related to my previous post, don't you think it's obnoxious to spring it on us at this point in the cycle, without letting us know which schools will require it BEFORE submitting an application?
 
KnightDoc said:
I PRAY you are right!!!! On the other hand, why is AAMC venturing into such a controversial space if it doesn't have support from member schools?

Also, related to my previous post, don't you think it's obnoxious to spring it on us at this point in the cycle, without letting us know which schools will require it BEFORE submitting an application?
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They have their own ideas about what is "helpful."
They are often obnoxious.
 
KnightDoc said:
You can read about it on the AAMC website. There was also a thread about it when it was first announced. Just another hoop to jump through. Maybe eventually a CASPer replacement. Kind of evil if you Google how this HireVue technology is used in hiring decisions.

Basically, we will be asked to record webcam responses to text prompts, and then an algorithm will use artificial intelligence to score our responses, body language, eye contact, tone, etc., etc. etc., and send the results to every school that participates. Seems very Big Brothery, but companies that use it to make hiring decisions love it while candidates hate it, so why wouldn't AAMC think it would be great to base medical school admissions decisions on it, since being hired to be an analyst at an investment bank is so similar to being a med student? Why not use a performance in front of a webcam, as determined by a computer, as an input in making med school admission decisions??? :laugh:

I just wish we could know which schools would be requiring it BEFORE submitting applications, so we could opt out before spending money on primaries and secondaries, but, alas, even that is asking too much. Seller's market. :laugh: Maybe next year.
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Please read the AAMC website on VITA before perpetuating rumors on this site. You’re stating falsehoods
 
mdapplicant2024 said:
Please read the AAMC website on VITA before perpetuating rumors on this site. You’re stating falsehoods
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Really? What is false in my post? How the HireVue technology is used in making hiring decisions, or how AAMC is introducing it into the application process this year?

Edit -- yes, I see now that I have read VITA Essentials that they say they are not scoring it. Maybe that's true now for this first trial run, but, believe me, HireVue is not selling a YouTube clone. Sorry for being guilty of rumor mongering, but research what it is that HireVue does and draw your own conclusions. AAMC absolutely would not need HireVue or its proprietary technology to be able to simply upload videos to its application portal. This is either going to die or proceed to the next level.
 
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KnightDoc said:
????? This won't be a thing unless and until IIs go out at schools that are using it. A little early to be asking about it on 7/14! 🙂

"The scheduling process for the AAMC VITA interview is initiated by a participating medical school. An applicant selected to complete the AAMC VITA interview will be invited in a series of emails:
  1. Participating medical schools will select applicants they want to invite to complete the AAMC VITA interview on a rolling basis starting in July 2020.
  2. HireVue will send AAMC VITA invitation emails every Thursday (anticipated) from August 2020 through April 30, 2021.
  3. HireVue will send reminder emails between August 2020 and April 2021 until you complete the AAMC VITA interview."
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I believe they were referring to AAMC's having stated that the list of schools participating in VITA would be made available later in July. I have also only seen University of Illinois opt in as of yet.

KnightDoc said:
You can read about it on the AAMC website. There was also a thread about it when it was first announced. Just another hoop to jump through. Maybe eventually a CASPer replacement. Kind of evil if you Google how this HireVue technology is used in hiring decisions.

Basically, we will be asked to record webcam responses to text prompts, and then an algorithm will use artificial intelligence to score our responses, body language, eye contact, tone, etc., etc. etc., and send the results to every school that participates. Seems very Big Brothery, but companies that use it to make hiring decisions love it while candidates hate it, so why wouldn't AAMC think it would be great to base medical school admissions decisions on it, since being hired to be an analyst at an investment bank is so similar to being a med student? Why not use a performance in front of a webcam, as determined by a computer, as an input in making med school admission decisions??? :laugh:

I just wish we could know which schools would be requiring it BEFORE submitting applications, so we could opt out before spending money on primaries and secondaries, but, alas, even that is asking too much. Seller's market. :laugh: Maybe next year.
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I've been complaining about VITA to anyone who will listen for the past 3 weeks (the idea of having one shot for X number of schools is keeping me up at night) but AAMC did say this in an email sent earlier this afternoon, I think:

"There is no scoring, computerized assessment, or artificial intelligence technology involved. A video recording of your responses to standard questions are provided to medical school admissions staff without evaluation or assessment. As with in-person interviews, schools conduct their own evaluation of the responses within their holistic review process. You can find more information about what AAMC VITA measures and sample questions on the AAMC VITA website."

They also specifically stated that "AAMC VITA was designed to complement the live interview process -- not replace it", which I had not realized previously, although I'm curious to know if that will really be the case.
 
MaesterDean said:
I believe they were referring to AAMC's having stated that the list of schools participating in VITA would be made available later in July. I have also only seen University of Illinois opt in as of yet.



I've been complaining about VITA to anyone who will listen for the past 3 weeks (the idea of having one shot for X number of schools is keeping me up at night) but AAMC did say this in an email sent earlier this afternoon, I think:

"There is no scoring, computerized assessment, or artificial intelligence technology involved. A video recording of your responses to standard questions are provided to medical school admissions staff without evaluation or assessment. As with in-person interviews, schools conduct their own evaluation of the responses within their holistic review process. You can find more information about what AAMC VITA measures and sample questions on the AAMC VITA website."

They also specifically stated that "AAMC VITA was designed to complement the live interview process -- not replace it", which I had not realized previously, although I'm curious to know if that will really be the case.
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Okay, if they say so, but that's not really the value or point of the HireVue technology. What exactly is the point of a canned, one size fits all video of us responding to a few common prompts, when schools already have primaries, secondaries and live two-way virtual interviews? Maybe this is a baby step towards a full implementation, but the point of the HireVue platform is to score the video using its algorithm, not to be a dumb vehicle to distribute a video.

It will definitely NOT replace live interviews, because it is not interactive. In the real world, companies use it as an initial screen, utilizing the artificial intelligence. It has no value just watching people answer prompts, which only invites bias based on appearance, etc. The point in the real world is to use the AI to screen for who to live interview -- whether AAMC and schools ever gets there remains to be seen, but there is no way it's just to add six three minute videos to our files.

Also, while the website implied (at least to me) that this would only be going to people receiving IIs, the AAMC VITA Essentials document makes clear that it would go to anyone the schools designate, that it could be used for pre-II screening (in fact, the document actually says it could be used for "initial application screening, secondary screening, ... -- what does that even mean -- you can't submit a primary unless they like your video? 🙂), and that, once you submit one, it could go to any school you apply to that requests it (kind of like a MCAT score). I'd be pretty uncomfortable not knowing or being able to control where it goes once I submit it. At least with CASPer you control where it goes by paying a fee.
 
KnightDoc said:
You can read about it on the AAMC website. There was also a thread about it when it was first announced. Just another hoop to jump through. Maybe eventually a CASPer replacement. Kind of evil if you Google how this HireVue technology is used in hiring decisions.

Basically, we will be asked to record webcam responses to text prompts, and then an algorithm will use artificial intelligence to score our responses, body language, eye contact, tone, etc., etc. etc., and send the results to every school that participates. Seems very Big Brothery, but companies that use it to make hiring decisions love it while candidates hate it, so why wouldn't AAMC think it would be great to base medical school admissions decisions on it, since being hired to be an analyst at an investment bank is so similar to being a med student? Why not use a performance in front of a webcam, as determined by a computer, as an input in making med school admission decisions??? :laugh:

I just wish we could know which schools would be requiring it BEFORE submitting applications, so we could opt out before spending money on primaries and secondaries, but, alas, even that is asking too much. Seller's market. :laugh: Maybe next year.
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What could POSSIBLY go wrong ??
 
M&L said:
What could POSSIBLY go wrong ??
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Apparently, AAMC says they are not using the AI to score it, but I can't help but believe that HAS to be the ultimate goal, even if they are not doing it out of the gate.
 
KnightDoc said:
Okay, if they say so, but that's not really the value or point of the HireVue technology. What exactly is the point of a canned, one size fits all video of us responding to a few common prompts, when schools already have primaries, secondaries and live two-way virtual interviews? Maybe this is a baby step towards a full implementation, but the point of the HireVue platform is to score the video using its algorithm, not to be a dumb vehicle to distribute a video.

It will definitely NOT replace live interviews, because it is not interactive. In the real world, companies use it as an initial screen, utilizing the artificial intelligence. It has no value just watching people answer prompts, which only invites bias based on appearance, etc. The point in the real world is to use the AI to screen for who to live interview -- whether AAMC and schools ever gets there remains to be seen, but there is no way it's just to add six three minute videos to our files.

Also, while the website implied (at least to me) that this would only be going to people receiving IIs, the AAMC VITA Essentials document makes clear that it would go to anyone the schools designate, that it could be used for pre-II screening (in fact, the document actually says it could be used for "initial application screening, secondary screening, ... -- what does that even mean -- you can't submit a primary unless they like your video? 🙂), and that, once you submit one, it could go to any school you apply to that requests it (kind of like a MCAT score). I'd be pretty uncomfortable not knowing or being able to control where it goes once I submit it. At least with CASPer you control where it goes by paying a fee.
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1. HireVue was founded in 2004. It developed AI and only started using it in 2014, before which it was only a video interviewing interface. The point of HireVue first and foremost is to conduct interviews which it has done long before it had AI. There is no reason to believe that HireVue cannot be used to conduct its interviews without its AI if it has done so before its AI existed.

2. Usage of the AI is optional. CNN uses HireVue but without its AI.

3. Even if you don't trust the AAMC, if the AI metrics were collected and communicated to schools, it only takes a single admissions member with a conscience to leak that information. The AAMC cannot risk that after making several explicit statements against usage of the AI.

Please stop trying to suggest a conspiracy theory.
 
areyoumydaddy said:
1. HireVue was founded in 2004. It developed AI and only started using it in 2014, before which it was only a video interviewing interface. The point of HireVue first and foremost is to conduct interviews which it has done long before it had AI. There is no reason to believe that HireVue cannot be used to conduct its interviews without its AI if it has done so before its AI existed.

2. Usage of the AI is optional. CNN uses HireVue but without its AI.

3. Even if you don't trust the AAMC, if the AI metrics were collected and communicated to schools, it only takes a single admissions member with a conscience to leak that information. The AAMC cannot risk that after making several explicit statements against usage of the AI.

Please stop trying to suggest a conspiracy theory.
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Fine, but medical school is not CNN or Goldman Sachs. AMCAS has an extensive set of written application materials, supplemented by more material at each school, that employers simply do not utilize. In addition, all schools utilize live interviews, either in person or now virtual, before making a decision. So, what is the point of adding a static, one way, video of an applicant providing a response to a predetermined text prompt if not to use the AI software?

I didn't realize they weren't using the scoring software right off the bat, and corrected myself after reading the AAMC "Essentials," but it really serves no purpose and adds nothing to what the schools already have if that's not where this is going. AAMC is NOT using HireVue to conduct "interviews." Schools will be using Zoom or whatever for that. Whatever this is, it isn't an interview. The questions are not tailored for each school, each of which which prizes its own mission and has its own identity.

Not a conspiracy theory, just an opinion. However, just to throw a little fuel on the fire, please allow me to throw this into the mix. AAMC very carefully takes no responsibility for anything -- MCATs, PTE/CTE deadlines, etc. They merely provide a framework and allow schools to use the tools however they see fit.

Their Essentials document very specifically states that "responses to the AAMC VITA questions will not be scored or otherwise evaluated by the AAMC." That's great, since AAMC NEVER purports to make any decisions for the schools. Yeah, I guess it can be distinguished from the MCAT, which they do design, administer and score, but still. AAMC has no background or expertise to evaluate or score these responses, so of course they don't do it.

HireVue, on the other hand, does. The Essentials document goes on to say that medical schools "will have access to your video responses and an opportunity to evaluate your responses using their own school-specific processes." Any guarantee that will not involve the school providing HireVue with parameters and having HireVue run its algorithm to help the school evaluate your responses?

No conspiracy theory, but check out this language in the Interviewee Agreement:

"I further agree and give permission for the medical schools that select to view my VITA interview to release my relevant school records to the AAMC and any third-party service providers under contract to the AAMC to conduct research on the relationships between interviews, admissions decisions, and medical school performance. My medical school records released to the AAMC may include admission decisions, grades, ratings from courses and clerkships, performance on USMLE exams, professionalism, and graduation. "

What's this for if it's just a pre-2014 video platform?????? I'm honestly not an expert, so I just don't know precisely when conspiracy theories morph into actual conspiracies, but AI, third parties, research, interview videos, admission decisions and ALL OF YOUR MEDICAL SCHOOL RECORDS look a little scary to me, and seem a little over the top for a few simple videos to give adcoms something else to look at in your file.
 
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KnightDoc said:
Fine, but medical school is not CNN or Goldman Sachs. AMCAS has an extensive set of written application materials, supplemented by more material at each school, that employers simply do not utilize. In addition, all schools utilize live interviews, either in person or now virtual, before making a decision. So, what is the point of adding a static, one way, video of an applicant providing a response to a predetermined text prompt if not to use the AI software?

I didn't realize they weren't using the scoring software right off the bat, and corrected myself after reading the AAMC "Essentials," but it really serves no purpose and adds nothing to what the schools already have if that's not where this is going. AAMC is NOT using HireVue to conduct "interviews." Schools will be using Zoom or whatever for that. Whatever this is, it isn't an interview. The questions are not tailored for each school, each of which which prizes its own mission and has its own identity.

Not a conspiracy theory, just an opinion. However, just to throw a little fuel on the fire, please allow me to throw this into the mix. AAMC very carefully takes no responsibility for anything -- MCATs, PTE/CTE deadlines, etc. They merely provide a framework and allow schools to use the tools however they see fit.

Their Essentials document very specifically states that "responses to the AAMC VITA questions will not be scored or otherwise evaluated by the AAMC." That's great, since AAMC NEVER purports to make any decisions for the schools. Yeah, I guess it can be distinguished from the MCAT, which they do design, administer and score, but still. AAMC has no background or expertise to evaluate or score these responses, so of course they don't do it.

HireVue, on the other hand, does. The Essentials document goes on to say that medical schools "will have access to your video responses and an opportunity to evaluate your responses using their own school-specific processes." Any guarantee that will not involve the school providing HireVue with parameters and having HireVue run its algorithm to help the school evaluate your responses?

No conspiracy theory, but check out this language in the Interviewee Agreement:

"I further agree and give permission for the medical schools that select to view my VITA interview to release my relevant school records to the AAMC and any third-party service providers under contract to the AAMC to conduct research on the relationships between interviews, admissions decisions, and medical school performance. My medical school records released to the AAMC may include admission decisions, grades, ratings from courses and clerkships, performance on USMLE exams, professionalism, and graduation. "

What's this for if it's just a pre-2014 video platform?????? I'm honestly not an expert, so I just don't know precisely when conspiracy theories morph into actual conspiracies, but AI, third parties, research, interview videos, admission decisions and ALL OF YOUR MEDICAL SCHOOL RECORDS look a little scary to me, and seem a little over the top for a few simple videos to give adcoms something else to look at in your file.
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I'm impressed by your dedication to conspiracy theories and to believe that AAMC is out to get you as an applicant. I think you should instead focus on what you can control, which is not this, but rather your most important activities, your essays, and maybe read a nice book on transcendental meditation
 
mdapplicant2024 said:
I'm impressed by your dedication to conspiracy theories and to believe that AAMC is out to get you as an applicant. I think you should instead focus on what you can control, which is not this, but rather your most important activities, your essays, and maybe read a nice book on transcendental meditation
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Thanks!!! I actually don't think AAMC is out to get anyone. I think HireVue is looking to expand its market, and AAMC is looking for tools to help schools more efficiently sort through thousands of applications. On the other hand, I'm very concerned that 16 years of hard work might end up being flushed down the toilet if a computer program reacts negatively to something I say, or an errant twitch, or bad eye contact with a webcam.

At this point, I'm just not lovin' the relative lack of transparency (introducing it without providing a list of participating schools, so candidates do not have the information necessary to make an informed decision before spending thousands of dollars and scores of hours of work applying to schools that are going to use it, if they are going to choose to opt out) as well as the prominent statement regarding it not being scored or evaluated by AAMC, followed by less clear statements detailing how it might be scored and evaluated by others.
 
KnightDoc said:
Thanks!!! I actually don't think AAMC is out to get anyone. I think HireVue is looking to expand its market, and AAMC is looking for tools to help schools more efficiently sort through thousands of applications. On the other hand, I'm very concerned that 16 years of hard work might end up being flushed down the toilet if a computer program reacts negatively to something I say, or an errant twitch, or bad eye contact with a webcam.

At this point, I'm just not lovin' the relative lack of transparency (introducing it without providing a list of participating schools, so candidates do not have the information necessary to make an informed decision before spending thousands of dollars and scores of hours of work applying to schools that are going to use it, if they are going to choose to opt out) as well as the prominent statement regarding it not being scored or evaluated by AAMC, followed by less clear statements detailing how it might be scored and evaluated by others.
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May be based on what you said HireVue can find your SDN activity and give different outcome 😎
 
srk2021 said:
May be based on what you said HireVue can find your SDN activity and give different outcome 😎
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I'm certain they would love nothing more! The more I think about it, based on the language in the Agreement, the more I become convinced this whole experiment is to provide HireVue with data that it will later be able to use to go back to the schools to show that its software makes better admission decisions than the adcoms. And, that's assuming they are not going to be providing evaluation and scoring services to the schools starting now.
 
Wow!! A wide cross-section across all tiers and geographies. Interesting that some UCs are in while others are out. Same for NYU-LI in and regular NYU out. UCSF-Berkeley Joint Program in, regular UCSF out. Sure looks to me like an experiment to gather data across all types of schools and students, but, as nothing more than an ignorant pre-med, what do I know?

All I know is I sure do resent being forced to contribute to this study, with no compensation other than being permitted to submit an application and not being charged extra for the privilege. I think it's outrageous that we don't have an ability to opt out while they are being less than forthcoming regarding how this is really going to be used.

If it were truly simply the case that:

"Each medical school will determine how it will incorporate the AAMC VITA interview into its application review process. If you have questions about how a participating medical school is using the AAMC VITA interview, please contact the participating medical school directly."

we would not need to sign:

"The Interviewee Agreement is a legally binding contract between you and the AAMC. It sets forth the terms and conditions under which the AAMC will permit you to access and complete the AAMC VITA interview."

that states:

"I further agree and give permission for the medical schools that select to view my VITA interview to release my relevant school records to the AAMC and any third-party service providers under contract to the AAMC to conduct research on the relationships between interviews, admissions decisions, and medical school performance. My medical school records released to the AAMC may include admission decisions, grades, ratings from courses and clerkships, performance on USMLE exams, professionalism, and graduation." [WTF??????? -- this goes WAAAYYYYYY beyond another data point to maybe be used in an application!!!!!! I'm actually thinking about not applying to some schools I have been planning on applying to for the past year just to avoid participating in this. I'm not sure if I'm really going to do that, but I am definitely thinking about it and am going to think long and hard about how badly my cycle would be impacted by replacing a few of these schools, since I can't apply to every school anyway.]

in order to participate in a simple exercise that AAMC cannot answer questions about!

VERY INTRUSIVE, and, in the end, highly unlikely to benefit candidates.
 
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And they released the list after lot of people already submitted apps! This process is getting out of control but for the good of the humanity all you premeds shouldn't complain.
 
srk2021 said:
And they released the list after lot of people already submitted apps! This process is getting out of control but for the good of the humanity all you premeds shouldn't complain.
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I mentioned that in an earlier post. I have already asked one school if an opt out is available. I doubt it, but I'll let you know.

I have a strong feeling these aren't going to really be used for the next few years for anything other than to allow HireVue to compile data to pitch to the schools the value of its AI algorithm. In the future, however, if this goes forward and doesn't blow up, it could fundamentally alter how schools decide who to bring in for interviews.
 
I am surprised how many schools decided to take the plunge on this VITA another lifeline thrown by the AAMC in this messy cycle!!
We are all suffering through this process and I understand the difficulties schools are going through to pull this cycle successfully.., there is enough reports of personnel and technical difficulties at the schools as much at the AAMC.., I understand that virtual interviews are not familiar venue for some and Zoom is not perfect to satisfy the needs for personal evaluation of applicants.., but to accept this disconnected VITA protocol is quite dehumanizing and is a disservice to the applicants if not to the schools themselves!
What happen to the human factor in evaluating candidates to be on your team to take care of other critical human beings..??
Ironically, some of the schools requesting Casper are requesting VITA too and might be jumping on the new AAMC proposed SJT coming next year..!!

It could be all a rough experiment in already unpredictable cycle, but this should not be a substitute to a direct communicative evaluation in whatever platform humanely possible.
 
KnightDoc said:
I mentioned that in an earlier post. I have already asked one school if an opt out is available. I doubt it, but I'll let you know.

I have a strong feeling these aren't going to really be used for the next few years for anything other than to allow HireVue to compile data to pitch to the schools the value of its AI algorithm. In the future, however, if this goes forward and doesn't blow up, it could fundamentally alter how schools decide who to bring in for interviews.
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I don't advocate for opting out on that basis.
 
srk2021 said:
I don't advocate for opting out on that basis.
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Excellent. This is America. You should have that freedom, as should I if I do not want to participate. I should not be forced to make a contribution to HireVue, in the form of disclosure of all of my personal data, from application to graduation, in order to be allowed to apply to medical school. That data is personal and valuable, and should be mine to sell (or not); not AAMC's or any school's!
 
Maimonides1 said:
I am surprised how many schools decided to take the plunge on this VITA another lifeline thrown by the AAMC in this messy cycle!!
We are all suffering through this process and I understand the difficulties schools are going through to pull this cycle successfully.., there is enough reports of personnel and technical difficulties at the schools as much at the AAMC.., I understand that virtual interviews are not familiar venue for some and Zoom is not perfect to satisfy the needs for personal evaluation of applicants.., but to accept this disconnected VITA protocol is quite dehumanizing and is a disservice to the applicants if not to the schools themselves!
What happen to the human factor in evaluating candidates to be on your team to take care of other critical human beings..??
Ironically, some of the schools requesting Casper are requesting VITA too and might be jumping on the new AAMC proposed SJT coming next year..!!

It could be all a rough experiment in already unpredictable cycle, but this should not be a substitute to a direct communicative evaluation in whatever platform humanely possible.
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I have absolutely no way to know for sure as a mere pre-med, but, as someone who does not want to participate and was considering opting out as soon as this was announced, the obvious answer as to why AAMC might have done what was necessary to get this many schools, across various tiers and geographies, was to stop people from doing exactly what I am considering.

I believe they are doing this to gather data to provide proof of concept for the AI algorithm, even if they are not using it now. In order to do that, they need wide participation. If it were only a few isolated schools, it would be easy for anyone who did not want to participate to just not become complete at those schools. And THAT would screw up the study.

Spreading this across 40-something schools, from Stanford and CNU to Case, Temple, Pitt, UNC, Louisville, UCF, etc. virtually guarantees widespread participation, which is the goal. Not just another lifeline in a messy cycle!

I'd bet that list was compiled (and was not just randomly whatever schools thought it might be a neat idea) with a view towards ensuring that each of the 50,000+ applicants would be applying to more than one or two of them, to make it painful to avoid participation. And if anyone is curious enough to start a thread, just based on what I know, I'll bet very few people on SDN don't have several of those schools on their list, regardless of whether they are 4.0/528 or 3.0/502.
 
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TheDataKing said:
...what....??
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AAMC says that they (AAMC) are not scoring or otherwise evaluating the videos, but that is the whole service HireVue sells in the real world. While it is POSSIBLE they only mean this to be a static video for schools to watch as part of the application process, that would be undermined by the requirement that we give consent for "the medical schools that select to view my VITA interview to release my relevant school records to the AAMC and any third-party service providers under contract to the AAMC to conduct research on the relationships between interviews, admissions decisions, and medical school performance. My medical school records released to the AAMC may include admission decisions, grades, ratings from courses and clerkships, performance on USMLE exams, professionalism, and graduation." Nobody would need this data to record videos to send to schools, but it would be necessary for HireVue to prove to the schools how its algorithm makes much better decisions than the adcoms.
 
So if a school sends VITA to 500 applicants they are going to get roughly 141 hours (6 days) worth of video responses. Sounds like fun for the admissions committee.

Apparently UMass is sending VITA to everyone who is complete. That's roughly 1,000 hours (47 days) of video responses to comb through.....
 
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Maybedoc1 said:
So if a school sends VITA to 500 applicants they are going to get roughly 141 hours (6 days) worth of video responses. Sounds like fun for the admissions committee.
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I'm pretty sure VITA is meant to go to ALL applicants. But that doesn't mean the schools will actually watch all the videos of all the applicants.

Like everything else, they'll probably only do the deep dive on people they are considering for an II. It's a maximum extras 18 minutes reviewing each file. Doesn't seem like a great use of their time to me (see my other posts on this topic if you are curious as to how I really feel 🙂), but an extra 18 minutes in the context of the many hours spent on people who make it to the interview stage is really just a drop in the bucket.
 
KnightDoc said:
I'm pretty sure VITA is meant to go to ALL applicants. But that doesn't mean the schools will actually watch all the videos of all the applicants.

Like everything else, they'll probably only do the deep dive on people they are considering for an II. It's a maximum extras 18 minutes reviewing each file. Doesn't seem like a great use of their time to me (see my other posts on this topic if you are curious as to how I really feel 🙂), but an extra 18 minutes in the context of the many hours spent on people who make it to the interview stage is really just a drop in the bucket.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's true. Plus I'm sure there are numerous people on admissions committees so it's not just one poor soul watching 6 days worth of video responses.
 
KnightDoc said:
Excellent. This is America. You should have that freedom, as should I if I do not want to participate. I should not be forced to make a contribution to HireVue, in the form of disclosure of all of my personal data, from application to graduation, in order to be allowed to apply to medical school. That data is personal and valuable, and should be mine to sell (or not); not AAMC's or any school's!
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Ofcourse you have the freedom to apply or not apply based on your beliefs and preferences. Given that it's sellers market my advise is don't decide purely based on VITA.
 
For those wondering, here's the list of schools using VITA for this cycle:

Baylor College of Medicine
California Northstate University College of Medicine
Carle Illinois College of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science
Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine Hofstra/Northwell
East Tennessee State University James H. Quillen College of Medicine
Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University
Morehouse School of Medicine
New York University Long Island School of Medicine
Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine
Rutgers, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School
Saint Louis University School of Medicine
San Juan Bautista School of Medicine
Stanford University School of Medicine
State University of New York Downstate Medical Center College of Medicine
State University of New York Upstate Medical University
UCLA/Drew Medical Education Program
University of Alabama School of Medicine
University of Arizona College of Medicine - Phoenix
University of California, Irvine, School of Medicine
University of California, Los Angeles David Geffen School of Medicine
Joint Medical Program UC Berkeley - UCSF
University of Central Florida College of Medicine
University of Florida College of Medicine
University of Hawaii, John A. Burns School of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Louisville School of Medicine
University of Maryland School of Medicine
University of Massachusetts Medical School
University of Michigan Medical School
University of Nevada, Reno School of Medicine
University of New Mexico School of Medicine
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of South Carolina School of Medicine Greenville
University of Texas School of Medicine at San Antonio (MD-PhD program only)
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (MD-PhD program only)
University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health
Washington State University Elson S. Floyd College of Medicine
Wayne State University School of Medicine
Western Michigan University Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine
Wright State University Boonshoft School of Medicine
 
srk2021 said:
Ofcourse you have the freedom to apply or not apply based on your beliefs and preferences. Given that it's sellers market my advise is don't decide purely based on VITA.
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Yup. Right now I'm all wound up, so I'm not making any decisions right now. I am, however, sick of hearing about the sellers' market. Of course it's true, which is why they do things like this in the first place. Doesn't make it right and doesn't make it ethical.

It also doesn't mean everyone has to submit. There are around 150 +/- MD schools in the US; 44 are requiring it. We all have choices. There are over 100 choices that don't require VITA this year.

While I think the list was designed to ensure that the maximum number of people would feel compelled to submit, I just don't feel that way. I could probably never get into the very top schools on the list, so what am I really losing by not applying to them? I can just as easily be rejected by Harvard, Penn and Hopkins without NEEDING to apply to Stanford, UCLA or Michigan! Same goes for any lower ranked school where I expect to be more competitive.

So, while more choices are always better than less, no one candidate absolutely NEEDS to apply to any of the schools on the list in order to be able to potentially matriculate to MD school in 2021. Everyone gets to make their own choice. I honestly don't mind wasting some time to make a few short videos, but I have no interest in allowing HireVue to have access to my academic record going forward in order to be able to use it to refine an algorithm that will ultimately allow schools to have computers watch those videos in order to help schools make II decisions. I want to be rejected by human beings, not an algorithm!!! YMMV.

For the record, there are 7 schools on that list that I was planning on applying to, and I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. I still haven't submitted anything, and am leaning towards waiting another year for reasons totally unrelated to VITA, so depending on what happens in the next few weeks, I'm either going to apply, with or without VITA, or I'm going to have another year to figure out what to do. Maybe it will be gone by then?? 🙂
 
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Cole42 said:
Outside of any issues with HireVue as a platform, I'm worried about the effect this will have on low-income applicants, who may not have the stable internet access, laptop with a high quality camera and microphone (as AAMC advises against using phones), or the quiet testing environment VITA explicitly requires in their applicant preparation guide. In normal circumstances, it's not a big deal to go to a library or something similar to test using borrowed technology and a quiet space, but that's hardly a viable option for many in the midst of a pandemic given stay at home orders.

AAMC prohibits taking the video in the presence of others, but I do not have access to a quiet, private place where I can test. I live in a very small apartment with my husband and two dogs. Even if my husband could take both dogs on a walk simultaneously (which is tough due to our COVID-19 foster dog's behavioral issues), I still wouldn't have a quiet place to interview as my neighborhood constantly has police sirens, construction noise, loud fights from neighbors, etc. in the background. The distraction free environment they require is just not realistic for me right now. As such, I'm considering not submitting secondaries to the school on my list that requires VITA.

Are AAMC and med school admissions officers aware that this new hoop will likely disproportionately disadvantage low-SES applicants?
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Go on the website and check out the part about accommodations. There is a process.

Edit - it looks like accommodations are for medical conditions or disabilities. You should definitely reach out to AAMC to see if they have a satisfactory answer for you.
 
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Cole42 said:
I looked into that, but from what I can tell they only offer accommodations for disabilities, not other access issues. The options to apply include learning disability, ADHD, psychiatric impairment, and physical impairment. None of those apply to my situation.
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Yeah, I was editing my post while you were replying. My only helpful suggestion would be that not everyone has state of the art audio and video, so I don't think that will put you at a huge disadvantage. If you don't have a webcam built into your computer, cheap ones are available for around $20.

Also, you can do each question separately, so you only need literally 5 minutes of quiet time for each question. If you don't have stable internet, I'm sure a phone camera will work fine, even if it's not recommended. As you probably know, I have strong objections to this for other reasons, but the technical issues you are raising do not seem insurmountable. I am sure their calculus is that anyone who has access to the requisite technology to submit primaries and secondaries has the ability to do this without a waiver or other accommodation.
 
Maybedoc1 said:
So if a school sends VITA to 500 applicants they are going to get roughly 141 hours (6 days) worth of video responses. Sounds like fun for the admissions committee.

Apparently UMass is sending VITA to everyone who is complete. That's roughly 1,000 hours (47 days) of video responses to comb through.....
Click to expand...
HireVue AI technically does that work for schools, so its not like watching every video for same set of questions (not sure all applicants answer same set of questions). May be videos of applicants those HireVue AI thinks worthy enough to review.
 
I wonder if AAMC is paying/providing incentives for medical schools to offer VITA. I'm astonished that some schools (like Upstate) now require CASPer, VITA, and a virtual MMI. Seriously, how many bull** "personality" tests do we need to take before schools are satisfied? They might as well hook us up to polygraphs now during interviews to make sure we're not lying/crazy.
 
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