Which schools place more value on MCAT than GPA?

[littlealex]

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a large public school (one in the top 25 on US News), i can tell you that getting a 3.4 at a state university can be much harder than some private schools.

This just made me laugh out loud. There is only two public schools in the top 25, and they're both outside of 20... What is it, Berkeley and Ann Arbor?

Although I do agree with you that it can be very competitive to get a good GPA at a large public school, and it may even be harder than getting the same GPA at a smaller private school with a reputation for inflating grades. However, you must always keep in mind that there are more slots for A's in the larger schools, and the caliber of competition is typically slightly lower. In other words, there are more people at the bottom to uphold your GPA.

Smaller schools may sometimes have the reputation for inflating their grades, but sometimes this is understandable. My school does not inflate their grades, I'm just saying I understand.

I actually believe that a B+ student from Harvard would probably be an A- student at Berkeley. Maybe its a load of crap, I wouldn't know.

 

[foreverLaur]

i go to the largest public school in the US (in '06) and i took a few summer schools courses at Yale last year. I would honestly have to say that my classes at my big state school were much harder and more competitive than my classes at Yale. They were all pre-medical classes as well. Just thought I would throw that out there...

 

[littlealex]

Oh now I want to goto Yale so bad.

The Yale system... oh yeah.

 

[Despina]

I would guess fewer, because GPA isn't standardized. A 3.4 at Harvard is MUCH better than a 3.4 at StateU, and I don't think anyone is really going to argue that. But, to try to equate that to a point system where it can be consistently applied is akin to the UMich undergrad scandal and their point system.

Everyone knows that Harvard and other Ivy League's have a rep for grade inflation (I've even heard this from professors). It's how they keep alumni rolling in the dough. Just my 2 cents. Don't mean to start a flame war.

 

[harano99]

This just made me laugh out loud. There is only two public schools in the top 25, and they're both outside of 20... What is it, Berkeley and Ann Arbor?

Although I do agree with you that it can be very competitive to get a good GPA at a large public school, and it may even be harder than getting the same GPA at a smaller private school with a reputation for inflating grades. However, you must always keep in mind that there are more slots for A's in the larger schools, and the caliber of competition is typically slightly lower. In other words, there are more people at the bottom to uphold your GPA.

Smaller schools may sometimes have the reputation for inflating their grades, but sometimes this is understandable. My school does not inflate their grades, I'm just saying I understand.

I actually believe that a B+ student from Harvard would probably be an A- student at Berkeley. Maybe its a load of crap, I wouldn't know.

I registered just to refute the above statement. I don't know how grading or class competition is at Harvard, but i assure you (as many of other alumni can attest), Berkeley is not easy. Not even close. Competition especially in premed classes is ridiculous. If anything a B+ student at Harvard would get a B+ at Berkeley....

 

[boo-yeh]

This just made me laugh out loud. There is only two public schools in the top 25, and they're both outside of 20... What is it, Berkeley and Ann Arbor?

Virginia!

 

[sillydoc2230]

Of course the average Ivy league student is more academically capable than the average state student... I hope that isn't actually being argued. However, the argument that an Ivy league student's A should be worth more than a state student's is absolutely nauseating. What about the fact that the typical Ivy league student comes from a wealthier family than the typical state student, and therefore may not have to work throughout college? Or the fact that the Ivy league schools employ more prestigious professors, who might be able to teach a given amount of material better than a professor at a state school? Should we factor these things into the equation?

The answer, of course, is no. Every student in every class shares a common goal: to earn an A. Either you accomplish this goal, or you don't. There are tough classes at Ivy league schools, and there are tough classes at state schools... if you think there are more tough classes at your Ivy league school, then tough ****. You decided to go there. Don't complain and say that you deserve more credit for your A-minus than some kid who had a 99% average in his state school's organic class but couldn't afford the tuition to be "challenged" more at your private school.

While I agree that it's nauseating to think each grade should be treated differently, I am going to tell you that you shouldn't make generalizations in such a way. Ivies have huge endowments and are able to give most of their students huge grants to pay for school if they are financially in need. Admissions are need-blind for a reason. I could only go to an Ivy because of these huge grants and I still had to work part-time, but hey I managed fine. A lot of my friends at school also had to work and were on financial aid or basically banking on getting a good job to pay off their loans. Also, these "prestigious" professors you speak of are mostly there to research and don't give 2 ****s about teaching, so you really have to learn on your own. So seriously, don't stereotype because they old boys club that the Ivies use to be has now changed greatly towards more diversity.

To conclude, this argument is dumb. An A is an A and you need to be smart and work hard wherever you are. Don't get ants in your pants, it really isn't that serious.

 

[foreverLaur]

Any person is going to have to work hard to get A's in premedical coursework. Just because the school's name has a reputation attached to it shouldn't make their hard work or grades any better. Not all of us even want to go to an Ivy league school - I personally love my school and where it is at and wouldn't change it for anything. However, I don't think that should make my A worse than the Harvard kid's A.

 

[Captain Nemo]

This discussion is getting out of hand, and I agree I contributed to it. Posters above are correct, for all intensive purposes, an individual who attains an A at one school would probably get an A at any other school. From the misinformed comments people are making about the "ivies", I assume now I was probably making similarly misguided statements about State U. The truth is you pick a school for a myriad of reasons and do the best you can, period.

 

[SAspursfan]

The generalizations I made were meant to illustrate how wrong it is to make generalizations, which is why I phrased them as questions and not statements. Your post was just a variation on the same point I already made... that doing this is wrong.

While I agree that it's nauseating to think each grade should be treated differently, I am going to tell you that you shouldn't make generalizations in such a way. Ivies have huge endowments and are able to give most of their students huge grants to pay for school if they are financially in need. Admissions are need-blind for a reason. I could only go to an Ivy because of these huge grants and I still had to work part-time, but hey I managed fine. A lot of my friends at school also had to work and were on financial aid or basically banking on getting a good job to pay off their loans. Also, these "prestigious" professors you speak of are mostly there to research and don't give 2 ****s about teaching, so you really have to learn on your own. So seriously, don't stereotype because they old boys club that the Ivies use to be has now changed greatly towards more diversity.

To conclude, this argument is dumb. An A is an A and you need to be smart and work hard wherever you are. Don't get ants in your pants, it really isn't that serious.

 

[johnstonburg]

i really wish this thread wasn't hijacked by people trying to convince themselves that their schools or grades are better than popular conceptions. i hope that people do smile on some gpas more favorably than others, but i have no proof that mine is worth any more.

anyway, i happen to be in almost the exact same spot as the orginal poster-- see my sig-- and would really appreciate any other thoughts on the orginal matter.

 

[neurofreak]

screw all those elitist private schools full of pompous stuck up snobs....public schools all the way!

 

[foreverLaur]

UCLA seems to have a high MCAT, but avg GPA.

 

[adamMD]

As an third round applicant with a 38 MCAT and 3.32 GPA, I want to make my school selections very carefully. I know that profile matching is an important part of increasing chances, so does anyone know what schools put more emphasis on the MCAT score, and have a midrange or lower mean GPA?
Thanks...

You will not be denied from med school because of your GPA and MCAT. Good LORs, an early application, and good interviews are all you need at this point. Apply to schools that you'd like to go to. Don't look for schools based off MCAT and GPA. That's stupid. Go based on how your motives compare with a schools.

 

[Golden Boy]

That's a crock of ****. If I saw a 3.4 from a person at an institution notoriously known for grade inflation, I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that it were better than one from StateU. And before you make a smartass comment, I'd also like to mention that I dont really care to hear what someone with a screen-name like "TheRealMD" has to say.

By and large, science classes anywhere tend to be quite demanding, and one can assume that a 3.5 science GPA at even a moderately decent school will be quite respectable. However, it's inevitable that some schools will be more demanding academically than others.

That being said, why is it so hard for anyone to accept that a 3.5 science GPA from Harvard might actually carry more weight than the same science GPA at a school that may not even be ranked in the top 50? The age-old comment about Harvard's grade inflation is for the most part a myth. You have to realize that the majority of Harvard undergraduates are super achievers, with the brain power and smarts, to boot. This is the perfect recipe for exceedingly high grades. You take 100 over achievers in any given class -- those students who have received stellar grades throughout their entire academic career (from Kindergarten through college) -- and you'll find that a very high percentage will get A's and A-'s. That's just because they'll work that much harder just to get the type of grade they've been used to getting all along.

Unless you have studied at Harvard (or at one of its peer schools -- usually top 5 in the country), please don't play the mythical "grade inflation" card. Med schools know what it takes to get an A at a place like Harvard -- mostly because many of its faculty members and admissions committee members have studied at Harvard, or places like it.

 

[surftheiop]

I can't speak for medical school, but one of my psych professors was telling us most top clinical psych programs toss any app with <3.8, unless its from an Ivy/Stanford/Berkeley/UChicago in which case they will consider GPAs down to 3.6

 

[surftheiop]

That being said, why is it so hard for anyone to accept that a 3.5 science GPA from Harvard might actually carry more weight than the same science GPA at a school that may not even be ranked in the top 50? The age-old comment about Harvard's grade inflation is for the most part a myth. You have to realize that the majority of Harvard undergraduates are super achievers, with the brain power and smarts, to boot. This is the perfect recipe for exceedingly high grades. You take 100 over achievers in any given class -- those students who have received stellar grades throughout their entire academic career (from Kindergarten through college) -- and you'll find that a very high percentage will get A's and A-'s. That's just because they'll work that much harder just to get the type of grade they've been used to getting all along.

Unless you have studied at Harvard (or at one of its peer schools -- usually top 5 in the country), please don't play the mythical "grade inflation" card. Med schools know what it takes to get an A at a place like Harvard -- mostly because many of its faculty members and admissions committee members have studied at Harvard, or places like it.

This is so true (and I don't go to Harvard so I'm not playing favorites), if you have 60 future MD's and 30 future PhD's sitting in a classroom, there is no reason a school should have to give half of them C's just so the GPA distribution looks more like some state college where 1/4 of the class starts the weekend on Weds night.

Here is an example of the level of achievement that is expected at top schools-

I go to a "big name school" and in my organic chem class alone historically there are 70-90 people who score 35+ on MCAT and 100-120 who score 30-34. Also its not uncommon to hear about people getting "accepted" during their junior year to top research med schools without even applying because of a big publication or presentation they made at a conference.

 

[randombetch]

That's a crock of ****. If I saw a 3.4 from a person at an institution notoriously known for grade inflation, I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that it were better than one from StateU. And before you make a smartass comment, I'd also like to mention that I dont really care to hear what someone with a screen-name like "TheRealMD" has to say.

are you an adcom? because, if not, please don't tell us what they think... they don't need 18 and 19 year olds putting words in their mouth.

from personal experience, and from attending a large public school (one in the top 25 on US News), i can tell you that getting a 3.4 at a state university can be much harder than some private schools. grade-cutoffs are a powerful thing and i dont think harvard or a lot of top tier private schools have them. Many public schools will only give 10 - 20% As and 30 - 40% Bs in the pre-req courses. granted, i think the competition is stiffer at top tier privates, so grade inflation probably keeps the suicide rate down.

A 3.4 GPA is average at Harvard. You think someone with a 3.4 at a State school is on par with the average Harvard student? Wow, you state schoolers really have ego issues if you're in that kind of denial. The average Harvard kid would fly through state school classes, are you kidding me (yes, I have taken courses at a state school and courses at an institution comparable to Harvard).

Getting straight A's in 6 AP classes in high school is a joke compared to getting a 3.4 at Harvard, but most people I know who are in state schools would never dream of being able to handle 6 AP courses in one semester. Get real - a 3.4 at a state school is never comparable to a 3.4 from Harvard, even if it's UC Berkeley or UCLA.

It's a good thing adcoms aren't that *****ic and give at least some credit to the 3.4 Harvard student for competing with much more academically inclined peers. Every single person who've been on the admissions committee will tell you that the advantage is giving to the Harvard 3.4 vs state school 3.4.

PS: I don't go to Harvard.

 

[randombetch]

UCLA seems to have a high MCAT, but avg GPA.

According to US News, their average MCAT is a 34.8 and their average GPA is a 3.81. A 3.81 isn't what I'd consider average...

 

[randombetch]

I registered just to refute the above statement. I don't know how grading or class competition is at Harvard, but i assure you (as many of other alumni can attest), Berkeley is not easy. Not even close. Competition especially in premed classes is ridiculous. If anything a B+ student at Harvard would get a B+ at Berkeley....

Funny, because the average GPA at Berkeley is the exact same as the average GPA at my school (a 3.27). No offense to Berkeley students (I have many family members who have attended), but the students at my top 5 institution are much more academically talented without a doubt. If the grading distributions are similar (which they must be since we have the exact same average GPA), then obviously it'd be much more difficult to get A's at my school since the competition is much harder.

I'd say getting A's at my school is about as difficult as getting A's at Harvard though. Maybe it's not, but to me, an A- at Berkeley ~ B+ at my school ~ B+ at Harvard.

 

[docelh]

This thread is ridiculously ancient, and got seriously bumped.

 

[Longshanks]

Man, someone's ego got a little damaged last night and felt the need to bump a 3 year old thread to rationalize why they spent $60k+/year on undergrad and boast about their school....

 

[surftheiop]

Man, someone's ego got a little damaged last night and felt the need to bump a 3 year old thread to rationalize why they spent $60k+/year on undergrad and boast about their school....

The ironic thing is for many people its the same price to go to an Ivy compared to a state school because they have massive endowments to fund rather good financial aid.

Its the private schools that aren't in the top 20 that really milk people financially.

 

[Perth Domer]

My premed advisor told me it basically comes down to who your school has a relationship with. Some schools say point blank they add on .2 to GPAs from my school, and some don't care. (Apparently the UCs don't give us much love). But FYI, the stats don't lie, 96% placement for those with a 3.5 and above, average of 30 on the MCAT. (from the top 20 Private I go to.)

I think what's the bigger issue is they don't give more difficult majors like Engineering/Physics a little more credit for their deflated GPAs but that's just me.

 

[SurgeonTime]

lol, i love how you guys are discussing a 3 year old thread,.... on a Saturday night...