Which *specialties* are the BEST paying?

[Matt Laneland]

It's harder to get an analyst position at Goldman Sachs/Lehman/Bear Stearns then it is to get into medical school. It is harder to get a private equity postion at KKR/Dearborn Madison/GTCR then it is to get into medical school. It is harder to get an entry level consulting job at McKinsey/Bain/BCG then it is to get into medical school.

Don't kid yourself. I know these are "mere facts", but frankly speaking, if you get into medical school and go into: rads, gas, derm, rad onc, path, cards, gi, optho, ENT, urology, you will be better off then 90% of the population financially, and probably happier than most people in general. All you people who say "go get a job on wall street" probably haven't tried it.

A McKinsey job interview (I've been on 2 out of the 3 interviews) is more grueling than any medical school or residency interview you can imagine. You can't fake it, and you can't get by on legacy or affirmative action or good test scores or being a nice guy or whatever. Their standards are so high.

I matched in a competitive specialty (rad-onc) at a good medical center (Pitt), and it was much easier than getting a job at a top management consulting firm or an analyst position at an I-Bank. Trust me - I thought I had a year off coming up so I applied to these jobs, no luck whatsoever.

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on perspective, being a physician is still a heck of a way to do better than most people, financially, in the US. I can't guarantee you will like your job, but you will make more than my mom and dad combined ... in your first year out of residency.

-S

Very well stated..I was orginally in medicine and ventured out into the 'real world' Booze Allen Hamilton was my home base, and the three greuling interviews and the work thereafter made my worst night on call look like a night in the Ritz with the Olsen twins

Medicine is tough in it's own right, but we shouldn't downplay how others work hard for their money. If you're going into medicine you better have a good business mind, otherwise the hospital, insurance, and your lawyers will milk you dry!

Matt

PhysicianLiving

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[gagolden]

Best Paying: Spinal Surgery

No Call: Emergency Medicine

PCCM is moving toward a shift work system. One group of PCCM docs that I know of does 2 or 3 12 hour shifts a week with one or two days of pulm clinic. They have eICU coverage at night (still on call, but go home and dont get called as much) As a result thier only working 40-50 hours a week and it sounds like thier income average is about 340 a year.

 

[ckyuen]

wow that sounds like a high income, i though pulm did not do a lot better. I thought gi, cards, nephro was where it was at b/c of the high reimbursing procedures. intubating and putting in lines doesn't pay much at all. especially if you look at how much an anesthesia guy gets. also the sick people are likely to be unisured or poor payor mixes. 340 is a lot, maybe they need to rethink this whole decreasing reimbursements for surgical procedures. remember a time when ophtho bragged about how many thousands of dollars they got for a short cataract. well it's now a third of what it used to be not adjusted for inflation. try to get an ophtho guy to tell you how much they make now and you won't get a straight answer. same with ortho.

 

[jacksmith2]

How about with an MD/PhD, do you people with familiarity with finance (or even consulting) think that's a viable option?
Rather than spending another 5-6 yrs in residency/training?

 

[markneil]

I didn't lie, b/c i didn't have a spot yet. Plus, they make you no promises about how long they will keep you and you make no promises about how long you stay. If a client wants to hire you away, you'll leave your consulting company without batting an eye.

it makes sense that people with similar grades/test scores will get higher paying jobs outside of medicine, for obvious market-related reasons. Not surprising in the least. but, in this economy, the people getting the top jobs (GS, lehman, GTCR, mckinsey, bcg, etc.) are far more qualified then those getting into, say, Michigan State College of Human Medicine. I got into Tulane and MSU med school with a 3.0. I got neg'd on all my undergrad interviews at top companies. After med school, the top companies interviewed me b/c of my MD. They were interested in a new skill test, and weren't discouraged by my dismal undergrad GPA.

If you get a 3.5 in undergrad and a 30 on your MCAT, you will more than likely get into MD school somewhere. And then you can get a residency in a lifestyle field, if you want. With a 3.5, McK, etc. will not interview you. Promise, I've met with enough of their staff to know who they select out of undergrad. They are stellar candidates.

It's harder than you think. I'm not going on anecdotes about friends. I'm going by personal experience. I didn't have to prep for a med school/residency interview. I just acted like myself. For strategy interview, I had to meet with current staff and practice cases, read about cases on my own, learn about different industries, and hold it together in front of a higher-up.

-S

in theory if you are interested in helping sick people (by being clinician/non-clinician, research scientist for cancer research, etc) you choose medicine and if you love crunching numbers and investing in new and novel ideas in technology/biotech, etc, then you choose that area of practice. i don't see why people are comparing these two. i bet there are doctors who can be better investment bankers than the best ibankers right now but love the field they are in enough to stay, despite of the $$$ or vice versa. it just comes down to what you really love (forgive me for the cliche).

 

[deleted4401]

I completely agree that one should go for the field they love the most. Wholeheartedly. Yet, I know that there are conflicted people out there, and also people that truly like a variety of possible career fields.

Who is to say that assisting in the financing of biotech ventures is not in the realm of helping people? Some great clinicians later in their career feel that they can help the greatest number of people in the greatest way by being involved in a biotechnical or biomedical venture - i.e. cardiologists involved in the financing, development, marketing, and implementation of drug-eluting stents - that are as passionate about as they are passionate about Dx/Rx.

I also believe people like Senator Frist and Governor Dean felt strongly about another field - politics - and felt that at the time, they may be able to do more for the common good then by staying in their chosen medical fields. I can say for a fact that Frist's income dropped substantially by leaving CT surgery/transplant, and that I believe even the Governor's salary was less than what his practice made.

This is so tangential, now. At the end of all this, I say go plastics or derm for the most bang for the buck, Rads/rad-onc if you are a techie, if the only interest is making money in medicine.

-S

 

[CTSballer11]

I completely agree that one should go for the field they love the most. Wholeheartedly. Yet, I know that there are conflicted people out there, and also people that truly like a variety of possible career fields.

Who is to say that assisting in the financing of biotech ventures is not in the realm of helping people? Some great clinicians later in their career feel that they can help the greatest number of people in the greatest way by being involved in a biotechnical or biomedical venture - i.e. cardiologists involved in the financing, development, marketing, and implementation of drug-eluting stents - that are as passionate about as they are passionate about Dx/Rx.

I also believe people like Senator Frist and Governor Dean felt strongly about another field - politics - and felt that at the time, they may be able to do more for the common good then by staying in their chosen medical fields. I can say for a fact that Frist's income dropped substantially by leaving CT surgery/transplant, and that I believe even the Governor's salary was less than what his practice made.

This is so tangential, now. At the end of all this, I say go plastics or derm for the most bang for the buck, Rads/rad-onc if you are a techie, if the only interest is making money in medicine.

-S

Power. Plus great jobs with tons of money await you once you have left the Senate and Governor's office (Dean is the head of the DNC).

 

[ennuiescence]

Why are we all so preoccupied with money? If you are interested in the best hourly rate, with essentially no work involved, go do something outside of medicine. Investment banking PAYS big money, you can work hard, and then watch your money grow while you sit on the beach... But then you will have to make peace with yourself that you essentially move money around for other people, and just take a slice of their money.

When you think about it, doctors facilitate moving money around for other people just as much as those in business, albeit in a more glorified fashion. Instead of being under the control of firms and corporate masters with agendas that are more pronounced and thus readily recognized, we are controlled by insurance companies, federal regulations governing Medicare/Medicaid, and lastly hospital administrators in either non-profit or for-profit arenas. Even though non-profit hospitals assume a self-explanatory role, the "Official Rulemakers" (most of whom lack any clinical experience) must establish, reinforce, modify, and provide incentives for compliance of policy designed to cut costs for procedures and medications doctors may otherwise order.

Make no mistake about it: everyone in this country is either a corporate b**ch or rendered powerless under those who control the money--how it is obtained, how it is distributed among social class, race, and gender, and how it is utilized and/or reinvested. These are the vicissitudes of what we call capitalism, a system of beliefs often conveniently overshadowed by the more publicly accepted ideals of freedom and democracy. This substitution has been systematically used by our government to justify wars, puppet governments, and influence of foreign policy. I am not claiming this to be right or wrong, but merely pointing out that which is obvious to many.

Investment bankers are just more familiar with the rules of the Big Game than other folks (including physicians). This allows them to shunt the flow of money, and the power with which it is associated, in their direction. Intellect may be equal to or superior to that of physicians, but it is our primary objectives that are generally more discernable. Nonetheless, we are all still playing the same game--whether we know it or not.

If you take the time to see what happens in the media, more glory is outwardly given to sports superstars, entertainers, and business moguls. Doctors are...well, just doctors. Some are aloof. Some are outspoken and not well-liked. Some are financially successful because they decided at some time to shed an ignorance of what they saw around them. Some may have simply chosen to stop pretending that the pink elephant representing an undeniable and intimate relationship between money and American medicine did not exist. Others-even the ones that are held in the highest of esteem by colleagues and patients-may work harder, have less free time, and earn less than business people or physicians pre-occupied with money.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, I think every doctor has to at least consider this phenomenon and make decisions accordingly. Personally, I would like to become financially prosperous in my future practice--not because of what I will be able to afford, but because of the security with which I will be able to live my life. In fact, a handsome personal reserve of funds would attenuate the inevitable burden of wrestling with corporate control and all of its necessary evil. I will have the freedom to occupy my thoughts with helping my patients and not how I am being manipulated by those with less education but yet more control of how things are being run.

As long as an enlightened awareness of financial realities is not overly consuming, I see nothing wrong with doctors tending to matters that may hinder their autonomy to provide outstanding patient care. I only wish more of them held seats of power in Washington, or, at the very least, in the very same hospitals with which they are of service.

 

[mig2k]

Lies Lies and damned lies...The answer is all these questions is Family Med. Not even the legendary cash cow of Pediatrics can compare to a FM doc out in private practice in full stride. They are pillars of God-like financial strength with even venture capitalists trembling in their mighty presence. Should FM docs even walk down Wall Street, they are hailed as heroes, often invited in for refreshments by the executives at Lehman Bros. Every FM is issued a Rolly Royce Phantom upon passing the boards, too often they give this luxury up and settle for the less flashy Saturn or Honda hybrid to decrease their risk of kidnapping. Definitely there is a downside to FM, villians everywhere will see you as their opportunity to become rich as FM docs can be ransomed for millions.

I dont know...can you handle all that? I doubt it.

so true it hurts

 

[markneil]

This suprised me. I've never heard people say that MFM's make that much.

Where's the anesthesiologist? They earn more than half of these people.

 

[(nicedream)]

I wonder how that compares to derm or optho....

Mean hours worked in derm: 42

Source: http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin...91e21203ca2cf2f386256f8f00721e39?OpenDocument

 

[fuel200]

Why do people always mention ibanking when giving an alternative to medicine for money. The people who have posted how tough it is to secure both a good job and advance (advancing is the key otherwise your just another schmuck making 70 k working 70 hr/wk), are completely right. However, I would say law school is a great alternative to those only interested in money. All you really need to do is get pretty good grades, rock the LSAT (which shouldn't be that different skill set wise from getting good scores on the MCAT). Once you're in a good law school, especially the really good ones, a job with a big firm is fairly secure, although not guaranteed, and if you don't mind working ridiculous hours, you'll advance to partner.

 

[Ross434]

Why do people always mention ibanking when giving an alternative to medicine for money. The people who have posted how tough it is to secure both a good job and advance (advancing is the key otherwise your just another schmuck making 70 k working 70 hr/wk), are completely right. However, I would say law school is a great alternative to those only interested in money. All you really need to do is get pretty good grades, rock the LSAT (which shouldn't be that different skill set wise from getting good scores on the MCAT). Once you're in a good law school, especially the really good ones, a job with a big firm is fairly secure, although not guaranteed, and if you don't mind working ridiculous hours, you'll advance to partner.

I'm not going to get into how hard it is to make partner at a biglaw firm (only 7% or so of hired associates become partners), but i would like to note that the LSAT takes a much different skill set than the MCAT. The LSAT has a very high correlation to IQ, and your score here is pretty much based on intellect and your ability to solve complex logic puzzles. A top 5%ile score is probably needed to get into a top tier law school. The MCAT, on the other hand is supposedly a "knowledge" based test.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

ORS - Spine Surgery $398,000 $670,000 $1,352,000
Surgery - Neurological $354,000 $541,000 $936,000
Radiology $201,000 $354,000 $911,000
Surgery - Plastic $237,000 $412,000 $820,000
Surgery - Cardiovascular $336,000 $515,000 $811,000
Cardiology: Interventional $290,000 $468,000 $811,000
ORS - Foot & Ankle $228,000 $392,000 $791,000
Radiation Oncology $241,000 $385,000 $787,000
ORS - Hand & Upper Extremities $288,000 $459,000 $770,000
ORS - Sports Medicine $266,000 $479,000 $762,000
Ophthalmology Retina $280,000 $469,000 $716,000
ORS - Hip & Joint Replacement $330,000 $491,000 $715,000
Hematology/Oncology $181,348 $245,000 $685,000
Orthopedic Surgery $256,000 $342,000 $670,000
Cardiology: Invasive $258,000 $395,000 $647,000
Anesthesiology: Pain Management $315,000 $370,000 $651,000
Urology $261,000 $358,000 $619,000
Pathology $169,000 $321,000 $610,000
Pediatrics - Cardiology $145,000 $282,000 $607,000
Cardiology: Noninvasive $268,000 $403,000 $599,000
Gastroenterology $265,000 $349,000 $590,000
Surgery - Vascular $270,000 $329,000 $525,000
Surgery - General $226,000 $291,000 $520,000
Otorhinolaryngology $194,000 $311,000 $516,000
Ophthalmology $138,000 $314,000 $511,000
Medical Oncology $198,000 $257,000 $455,000
Dermatology $ 195,000 $308,000 $452,000
Anesthesiology: General $207,000 $275,000 $448,000
Nephrology $191,000 $269,000 $447,000
Pulmonary Medicine + Critical Care $215,000 $288,000 $417,000
Anesthesiology: Pediatrics $ 283,000 $311,000 $378,000
Critical Care $187,000 $215,000 $320,000
Pediatrics - Critical Care $196,000 $259,000 $398,000
Neonatal Medicine $286,000 $310,000 $381,000
Rheumatology $179,000 $229,000 $378,000
Pediatrics - Neurology $175,000 $189,000 $362,000
Neurology $180,000 $228,000 $345,000
Emergency Medicine $192,000 $216,000 $295,000
Infectious Disease $154,000 $178,000 $271,000
Endocrinology $171,000 $187,000 $260,000
Pediatrics - Hematology/Oncology $182,000 $217,000 $251,000

 

[(nicedream)]

ORS - Spine Surgery $398,000 $670,000 $1,352,000
etc. etc.

What are the numbers?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I believe they are average at three years, median income of all in that specialty and 95% percentile.

 

[JackBauERfan]

What are the numbers?

maybe lowest pay, middle (average) pay, highest pay....just a wild guess.

although the first three year average sounds good haha.

 

[cdql]

At the end of all this, I say go plastics or derm for the most bang for the buck, Rads/rad-onc if you are a techie, if the only interest is making money in medicine.

Solid advice! There's a reason why those fields are probably the hardest fields to get into. (Hint: lifestyle is not the reason. A decent reason? Perhaps. The real reason? Dough!)

Power. Plus great jobs with tons of money await you once you have left the Senate and Governor's office (Dean is the head of the DNC).

I'm more of a cynic. Lots of politicians don't bother leaving the office before indulging in those kinds of jobs, I mean kickbacks, I mean jobs.

 

[hye345]

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