Which would you do In State DO or Out Of State MD?

[JeetKuneDo]

The OP has caused quite a debate here.

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[christina30]

The OP has caused quite a debate here.

Of course he has. The MD vs DO debate will never die on SDN.

 

[J1515]

LOL you do realize that your argument is really a moot point. Your entire conversation was based on the fact that being a US allopathic MD student is inconsequential to the selection process. The fact that coming from a prestigious medical school is inconsequential to the selection process. Yet you yourself just posted data that suggested it was important. In fact as I stated above its more important than step 1 scores in Internal Medicine.

Quantitative data: 82% of PDs listed step 1 as being important. 64% listed US allo school as being important. There are 12 criteria in between. That puts it at #14

Qualitative data: According to your data, it's just as important or less important as 18 other criteria. Boy, you really narrowed things down there . As I said, PDs ranked 9 things more important than your school's name. I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as you thought, does it? You've pretty much lost this one my friend...move on. In the grand scheme of things, it's relatively unimportant. Perhaps when you get on to residency they'll teach you how to interpret quantitative and qualitative data?

I also liked how you chose EM because it had the lowest score in terms of NAME BRAND medical school, but you failed to mention that US ALLOPATHIC GRAD was still 3.7. Let me throw some more at you:

Radiology:
US ALLOPATHIC GRAD - 3.9
NAME BRAND MEDICAL School - 3.5

FM
US ALLOPATHIC GRAD - 3.8
NAME BRAND MEDICAL School - 3.1

General Surgery
US ALLOPATHIC GRAD - 4.0
NAME BRAND MEDICAL School - 3.4

Also don't you know you shouldn't ever come to conclusions by reading someone's abstract. Always look at the data yourself. Silly resident.

It's ranked as less important. You can make up all the excuses in the world that you want and flip all the numbers. Meaningless. Bottom line - "of lesser importance"

Have a nice day.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Out of how many?...C'mon broski, we know you're going DO, but there's no need to defend yourself/choice against every post that says something not of your liking. Try to sum it all up in one post with the mulit-quote function

Do we have SDN patrols now trolling the threads and advising people how to post?

How many DOs applied allo Derm this year in the first place? My guess would be under five.

 

[GMed]

Quantitative data: 82% of PDs listed step 1 as being important. 64% listed US allo school as being important. There are 12 criteria in between. That puts it at #14

Qualitative data: According to your data, it's just as important or less important as 18 other criteria. Boy, you really narrowed things down there . In the grand scheme of things, it's relatively unimportant. As I said, PDs rank 9 things more important that your school's name. I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as you thought, does it? You've pretty much lost this one my friend...move on. Perhaps when you get on to residency they'll teach you how to interpret quantitative and qualitative data?





It's ranked as less important. You can make up all the excuses in the world that you want and flip all the numbers. Meaningless. Bottom line - "of lesser importance"

Have a nice day.

I still want a post card from the magical land that you live in.
Good luck to you and your future endeavors on SDN.
Hope you are more successful next time at making your points.

 

[J1515]

I still want a post card from the magical land that you live in.
Good luck to you and your future endeavors on SDN.
Hope you are more successful next time at making your points.

The numbers don't lie. Sorry if they're not what you thought they'd be. Quantitatively coming from a US allo school ranks at #14, qualitatively it ranks at #10 (9 things more important). Perhaps the know-it-all attitude will serve you better when you become an intern. Take care.

 

[MedMan25]

Quantitative data: 82% of PDs listed step 1 as being important. 64% listed US allo school as being important. There are 12 criteria in between. That puts it at #14

Qualitative data: According to your data, it's just as important or less important as 18 other criteria. Boy, you really narrowed things down there . As I said, PDs ranked 9 things more important than your school's name. I guess it doesn't matter nearly as much as you thought, does it? You've pretty much lost this one my friend...move on. In the grand scheme of things, it's relatively unimportant. Perhaps when you get on to residency they'll teach you how to interpret quantitative and qualitative data?

It's ranked as less important. You can make up all the excuses in the world that you want and flip all the numbers. Meaningless. Bottom line - "of lesser importance"

I didn't want to jump back into this because I think this thread has now gone the direction of every other MD vs DO thread out there, but I just want to mention, this entire argument rests on whether or not we think where you went to med school is a factor in decision making made by PDs and by your own admission, it is. Exactly how important where you went to medical school is is a subjective debate but the truth is, it matters. If it didn't matter, the medical school question wouldn't have even been on the survey.

 

[GMed]

The numbers don't lie. Sorry if they're not what you thought they'd be. Quantitatively coming from a US allo school ranks at #14, qualitatively it ranks at #10 (9 things more important). Perhaps the know-it-all attitude will serve you better when you become an intern. Take care.

LOL yes. Indeed the numbers don't lie. Especially with US ALLOPATHIC GRAD being more important than even one's USMLE scores. Good luck with that. I hope you don't write any papers in the future. I see some cherry picking of data thats going to come back and haunt you.

My know it all attitude is nothing compared to the gospel that comes out of your golden mouth. Truly every word is .... well ill leave that part alone. Don't want to get banned.

Watch this....... Watch this....... Wait for it..........Wait for it.......

Click on Ignore.

Ahhh much better

 

[J1515]

I didn't want to jump back into this because I think this thread has now gone the direction of every other MD vs DO thread out there, but I just want to mention, this entire argument rests on whether or not we think where you went to med school is a factor in decision making made by PDs and by your own admission, it is. Exactly how important where you went to medical school is is a subjective debate but the truth is, it matters. If it didn't matter, the medical school question wouldn't have even been on the survey.

You are correct. Everything matters to a degree. What I should have said from the begining is in the grand scheme of things, it is relatively unimportant.

 

[MedMan25]

You are correct. Everything matters to a degree. What I should have said from the begining is in the grand scheme of things, it is relatively unimportant.

In the grand scheme of things, all the crap we argue about on SDN is relatively unimportant

 

[Ahmed786]

There are currently three DOs doing IM residency at Hopkins:

http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/medicine/residency/currentresidents.html

I'm not going to bother researching the others, but suffice it to say, you obviously weren't looking close enough if three in one program escaped you.

And over 50 MD's...

Those particular people who will become attendigns will be equal, that isnt the issue.

The issue is how hard it was for those DOs to get into that program
and if it was worth me to do the instate or out of state.

Great input guys.
Someone did put it best if the DO and MD were the same in terms of stats for an Allopathic residency (where there are more of in specialites) the MD will almost always get the spot.
This causes me to lean more towards the MD even with the extra added costs.

 

[Ahmed786]

The OP has caused quite a debate here.

Didnt really mean to. It was more about the instate DO vs Out of State MD somethign which really isnt discussed on here to often and people have given pretty good viewpoints.

Its not an MD vs DO thread becausse I am pretty sure everyone in thsi thread knows they are the same AFTER tehy get a residency placement. The issue is how they stack up untill they get to that spot.

 

[coolnad17]

.

 

[Slack3r]

 

[Parts Unknown]

There are currently three DOs doing IM residency at Hopkins:

http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/medicine/residency/currentresidents.html

That isn't Hopkins, that's Hopkins Bayview, one of the facilities in the Hopkins hospital system that has its own residency programs.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/
http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/

I'm not going to bother researching the others, but suffice it to say, you obviously weren't looking close enough if three in one program escaped you.

There just has to be some irony in here somewhere.

 

[GMed]

Not quite. It was more of a does the prestige of the school you go to matter in getting a residency spot.

 

[GMed]

That isn't Hopkins, that's Hopkins Bayview, one of the facilities in the Hopkins hospital system that has its own residency programs.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/
http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/



There just has to be some irony in here somewhere.

LOL

 

[noshie]

THIS IS NOT AN MD VS DO THREAD so lets not make it into one. Thanks.

This is where I will undoubtedely find myself (in state acceptance at a DO school and an OOS acceptance at an MD school)

My question is, is it worth paying double to go out of state for the MD or should I suck it up and pay half that amount and do DO? What is your reasoning for what you choose?

Assume the Out of State MD is around $55,000-$60,000
Assume the Instate DO school is around $30,000

My husband and I have this same discussion every week... I am applying this year and I have a good feeling that I will get into DO in state, but I have no idea if I will even have a chance at MD out of state. However, if I do, I have no idea what I will choose.

The DO school near me is literally 10 min away from my house. My family lives in the area and I have pretty much lived here my whole life. Plus I live in Texas and the tuition here is crazy low. On the other hand, I want to move up as a physician (partially due to my business background) and become the head of any department that I end up in. I have heard that it would be less likely to be able to do that with a DO... Which I personally think is crap, and hopefully 10 years from now this will change.

I guess if I get the privilege to choose, I will choose the out of state for the above reason. I won’t want to, but I will.

 

[Bacchus]

Not quite. It was more of a does the prestige of the school you go to matter in getting a residency spot.

Not quite. It was a should I stay instate (DO) or go out of state (MD).

 

[illegallysmooth]

Good points. NHSC pays only $25,000 per year of loan repayment. Although that is a huge help and would def be worth it. NHSC scholarships pay for everything if you agree to it before you start med school, but that can be impractical.

IRB is an option if you do end up practicing in a third world country, or for no income somewhere else. However, you still have to make payments for 25 years if you have some income above 150% of poverty, and your spouses salaray is used to calculate your possible loan payment. Could suck bc your honey might end up paying off your brain.

You do make a good point that there are def ways to get around the money. But the money is still something that would influence your decision of what and where to practice, which is what I was trying to convey.

Just want to note that for IBR the forgiveness occurs at 10 years if you practice in the public sector for that period. The payments are not difficult to make (15% of your discretionary income), and if you file for taxes separately you will be able to file for IBR seperately. The law is changing soon so that a spouse's debt will also be taken into consideration if the spouse's income is taken into consideration.

 

[Nasrudin]

You know regarding the OP's question...

I would refer them to some excellent posts in the "Pathways to Competitive Residencies" thread in Pre-Allo.

The insights from some really sharp med students towards the end of that thread reflect the real world subtlety of finding our way through the first four years of medical school into residency.

To paraphrase them. It really is not a simple thing. A lot goes into a residency application. And a lot of that has to do with what type of residency is sought. So the considerations become refined along these lines.

The trouble is. How many of us really know what we're after at this point. For Drdrizzle(?) anyway the "Chick magnet" guy. It was clear that he wanted a heavily research infused career. For this type of applicant not many DO schools could cut the mustard for what he's after.

They also mention things like mentoring. Something I myself factored heavily into where I am headed to medical school. That and location and vibe, made up my mind. But I didn't even apply to DO schools. My instate one had one hell of a price tag. Negating it's instate-ness. All the viable state funded DO schools were in locations that would make me wonder if medical school was even worth it. So should I drop diatribe over any of this. No. It was my individual decision based on highly individualized criteria. Anyone making a sound decision would likely not need this thread or the entirety of SDN to do it.

There are a whole spectrum of things to consider. If the OP's instate DO school had solid training programs in their fields of preliminary interest. And had the web of connections that would help land them a desirable spot in that locale. If that was what is sought after then by all means, they should go to the DO school.

If they know already that they want an uber-competitive, reasearch heavy career, then they should way the option of the MD school. And decide if it would confer any advantages.

Because if all you want is a Peds spot in your home location then you should move past the lettering criteria immediately.

just my opinion. stirred up from some excellent career advice in the other thread.

 

[Trogghunter]

im most likely choosing out of state DO over in state MD. MSU has one of the best programs in the country for what i want to do

 

[MedMan25]

Just want to note that for IBR the forgiveness occurs at 10 years if you practice in the public sector for that period. The payments are not difficult to make (15% of your discretionary income), and if you file for taxes separately you will be able to file for IBR seperately. The law is changing soon so that a spouse's debt will also be taken into consideration if the spouse's income is taken into consideration.

The IBR plan might be a great option during residency but once you're a practicing physician, it is useless. #1 your income after residency is going to put your repayments back to where they would be on the standard repayment plan and #2 even if you landed a low paying public service job and had the remainder of your loan forgiven after 10 years, the discharged balance is considered taxable income. Not a smart decision if you're looking at graduating with a $200K loan.

 

[illegallysmooth]

The IBR plan might be a great option during residency but once you're a practicing physician, it is useless. #1 your income after residency is going to put your repayments back to where they would be on the standard repayment plan and #2 even if you landed a low paying public service job and had the remainder of your loan forgiven after 10 years, the discharged balance is considered taxable income. Not a smart decision if you're looking at graduating with a $200K loan.

1. If you graduate with a huge amount of debt, as in the previously mentioned scenario, IBR will be useful unless you're making like 300k+. Again, IBR is for people with high DEBT TO SALARY ratios. Even if your salary is high, if your debt is also high you can still qualify for reduced payments.

2. My payments under standard repayment would be around 4k/month. If I'm making around 180k, my payment would be around 2k monthly. Do the math before you make these claims, please.

3. With public service loan forgiveness, the forgiven part IS NOT TAXABLE. After 25 years (non-public service) it IS taxable.

 

[MedMan25]

1. If you graduate with a huge amount of debt, as in the previously mentioned scenario, IBR will be useful unless you're making like 300k+. Again, IBR is for people with high DEBT TO SALARY ratios. Even if your salary is high, if your debt is also high you can still qualify for reduced payments.

2. My payments under standard repayment would be around 4k/month. If I'm making around 180k, my payment would be around 2k monthly. Do the math before you make these claims, please.

3. With public service loan forgiveness, the forgiven part IS NOT TAXABLE. After 25 years (non-public service) it IS taxable.

Sorry, you are right. The 10 year plan under the public service option is not taxable. I was confusing it with the 25 year repayment plan which is taxed. Regardless, you're not going to be making $180K in a public service job that also qualifies for loan forgiveness after 10 years. In fact, I doubt there are many positions out there for physicians that qualify for the public service program outside the military. Working at the VA for $180K/year isn't going to be considered public service.

 

[illegallysmooth]

Sorry, you are right. The 10 year plan under the public service option is not taxable. I was confusing it with the 25 year repayment plan which is taxed. Regardless, you're not going to be making $180K in a public service job that also qualifies for loan forgiveness after 10 years. In fact, I doubt there are many positions out there for physicians that qualify for the public service program outside the military. Working at the VA for $180K/year isn't going to be considered public service.

You should read over the law -- it's not about needy or underserved areas. It's about public vs. private sector work. Any branch of government or education qualifies. Any time working for a state/university/government medical center or hospital qualifies (this is why residency and fellowship qualifies). And yes, working at the VA for 180k is year IS going to be considered public service.

 

[GMed]

You should read over the law -- it's not about needy or underserved areas. It's about public vs. private sector work. Any branch of government or education qualifies. Any time working for a state/university/government medical center or hospital qualifies (this is why residency and fellowship qualifies). And yes, working at the VA for 180k is year IS going to be considered public service.

Yup. Totally agree. I think for a resident whos is going into lets say interventional cardiology, you end up paying roughly 80,000 out of a 320,000 and 240,000 is forgiven. 8 years of residency @ 45,000-53,000 (1,000 per year upgrade per PGY year) and 2 years of nonprofit work at 150,000. That is assuming you had a 250,000 loan at time of graduation with 6.5% compounded interest.

 

[Corpsman Up]

Thanks to everyone that replyed with THEIR PERSONAL OPINION, which is all I asked for. I read other threads on the topic by using...oh my gosh, THE SEARCH FUNCTION, and just wanted to hear more peoples opinion on it.

I love how angry people get over multiple threads, like someone just raped their sister. Nobody is forcing you to read/reply to these threads, if you think it has been posted before....dont open it. Pretty simple eh illegallysmooth?

 

[illegallysmooth]

Thanks to everyone that replyed with THEIR PERSONAL OPINION, which is all I asked for. I read other threads on the topic by using...oh my gosh, THE SEARCH FUNCTION, and just wanted to hear more peoples opinion on it.

I love how angry people get over multiple threads, like someone just raped their sister. Nobody is forcing you to read/reply to these threads, if you think it has been posted before....dont open it. Pretty simple eh illegallysmooth?

HAHAHAHA. You posted this in the wrong thread. The one so similar to yours that you mistook it for yours.