White House issues new guidance on Tylenol and pregnancy

[bubaghanush]

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Members do not see this ad.

The White House has issued strong guidance against use of acetaminophen in pregnancy in an attempt to help curb the autism spectrum disorder (ASD) epidemic. Will this change your practice? Should we advise pregnant women and those of child bearing age they are putting their children at risk of autism if they take acetaminophen?

In addition to ASD prevention, novel groundbreaking treatment for ASD has received endorsement from esteemed experts HHS Secretary Kennedy and Dr. Mehmet Oz:

https://www.hhs.gov/press-room/hhs-trump-kennedy-autism-initiatives-leucovorin-tylenol-research-2025.html

Acetaminophen announcement and drug pronunciation below:

 

[Agast]

It takes about 15 hours to clear one dose of acetaminophen, so theoretically you take one a day without cumulative effect of any "toxins." If anyone is actually concerned.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

Tylenol and autism: What parents deserve to know

Nuance and empowerment instead of underestimation.

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

Here’s a pretty good summary of the Tylenol evidence in case anyone’s interested.

Long story short there’s a small tenuous connection that is probably due to confounding.

 

[geauxg8rs]

Once they are pregnant they get no advice from me, they are to follow their ob/gyn

 

[SSdoc33]

from the hospital:

Given recent public statements related to use of acetaminophen during pregnancy, we want to provide guidance to our caregivers.



XXXXXXX recommendations for acetaminophen use during pregnancy are aligned with the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). ACOG has reaffirmed that acetaminophen remains the safe and trusted choice for pain and fever relief during pregnancy.



ACOG’s position is based on the current weight of evidence that does not support a causal link between prenatal acetaminophen use and neurodevelopmental disorders, careful review of evidence, and prioritizing the most rigorous studies.



It is also important to note that, failing to treat medical conditions that warrant the use of acetaminophen, such as maternal fever, persistent headaches and pain can be dangerous. When left untreated, these conditions can, in some cases, create severe risk of harm or death for the pregnant person and the fetus.



The best practice remains foregoing use unless medically indicated and when indicated; judicious use at the lowest-effective dose, for the shortest necessary duration; and in consultation with a clinician.



For patient counseling, ACOG recommends clinicians be prepared to:

• Counsel patients on risk-benefit calculation and appropriate acetaminophen dosing, including maximum daily limits.
• Acknowledge the ongoing research and limitations of existing studies, emphasizing that the strongest and most methodologically rigorous studies show no evidence of causal association.
• Reassure patients that appropriate acetaminophen use remains the standard of care.

Please see links below to additional resources, including a clinician FAQ:

• ACOG Practice Advisory: Acetaminophen Use in Pregnancy and Neurodevelopmental Outcomes
• ACOG Statement: ACOG Affirms Safety and Benefits of Acetaminophen during Pregnancy
• ACOG FAQs: Acetaminophen in Pregnancy

 

[clubdeac]

from the hospital:

Given recent public statements related to use of acetaminophen during pregnancy, we want to provide guidance to our caregivers.



XXXXXXX recommendations for acetaminophen use during pregnancy are aligned with the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). ACOG has reaffirmed that acetaminophen remains the safe and trusted choice for pain and fever relief during pregnancy.



ACOG’s position is based on the current weight of evidence that does not support a causal link between prenatal acetaminophen use and neurodevelopmental disorders, careful review of evidence, and prioritizing the most rigorous studies.



It is also important to note that, failing to treat medical conditions that warrant the use of acetaminophen, such as maternal fever, persistent headaches and pain can be dangerous. When left untreated, these conditions can, in some cases, create severe risk of harm or death for the pregnant person and the fetus.



The best practice remains foregoing use unless medically indicated and when indicated; judicious use at the lowest-effective dose, for the shortest necessary duration; and in consultation with a clinician.



For patient counseling, ACOG recommends clinicians be prepared to:

• Counsel patients on risk-benefit calculation and appropriate acetaminophen dosing, including maximum daily limits.
• Acknowledge the ongoing research and limitations of existing studies, emphasizing that the strongest and most methodologically rigorous studies show no evidence of causal association.
• Reassure patients that appropriate acetaminophen use remains the standard of care.

Please see links below to additional resources, including a clinician FAQ:

• ACOG Practice Advisory: Acetaminophen Use in Pregnancy and Neurodevelopmental Outcomes
• ACOG Statement: ACOG Affirms Safety and Benefits of Acetaminophen during Pregnancy
• ACOG FAQs: Acetaminophen in Pregnancy

Says it perfectly

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Says it perfectly

Does it? Its one meta analysis (I seem to recall y'all here routinely mock that type of research) with a massive COI in the lead author.

You also have the main medical groups that deal with pregnancy and children both saying Tylenol doesn't cause autism.

 

[paindoc007]

Really great advise from our government leaders

Elections have consequences.

 

[clubdeac]

Does it? Its one meta analysis (I seem to recall y'all here routinely mock that type of research) with a massive COI in the lead author.

You also have the main medical groups that deal with pregnancy and children both saying Tylenol doesn't cause autism.

Some of our leading medical groups including the AMA also think gender affirming care is a real thing. They are as political as anyone on this thread and many have lost all credibility

 

[Baron S]

Some of our leading medical groups including the AMA also think gender affirming care is a real thing. They are as political as anyone on this thread and many have lost all credibility

How much Tylenol do you, on average, consume per day?

 

[lobelsteve]

2019 Hopkins study

NIH-funded study suggests acetaminophen exposure in pregnancy linked to higher risk of ADHD, autism

Researchers analyzed data from the Boston Birth Cohort.

www.nih.gov

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Some of our leading medical groups including the AMA also think gender affirming care is a real thing. They are as political as anyone on this thread and many have lost all credibility

So because of one thing you don't like, everything is suspect?

It's not like these are new statements, these organizations have been saying Tylenol is safe in pregnancy since before I started med school.

 

[SSdoc33]

i find it so strange that seemingly learned individuals so readily and happily embrace conspiracy theories. it is mental flaw. a defect.

 

[bubaghanush]

2019 Hopkins study

NIH-funded study suggests acetaminophen exposure in pregnancy linked to higher risk of ADHD, autism

Researchers analyzed data from the Boston Birth Cohort.

www.nih.gov

This is sort of like stating people who get more epidurals are more likely to be disabled 10 years later, so epidurals caused their disability.

 

[bubaghanush]

What happened to the vigorous studies linking labor epidurals to autism and vaccines to autism? Should these be discouraged in pregnant women and children or only Tylenol?

 

[clubdeac]

 

[1 Up]

Says it perfectly

What progressives don't realize is that Trump is their God. He alone determines what morality and value system they religiously adhere to on any given day. If DJT say something is good, they decide it's evil. If DJT says something is evil, they say its good. Is there logic behind this? No. Because that's not how religion works. They are utterly controlled by this fascinating new religion, yet they have no idea.

 

[1 Up]

What happened to the vigorous studies linking labor epidurals to autism and vaccines to autism? Should these be discouraged in pregnant women and children or only Tylenol?

You seem to approach this dogmatically. Just observe the data. The entire corpus of data. Make a decision. It's called science.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

This is absurd. Yes, there are idiots who will turn this into the “Tylenol challenge.” But you guys are trying to paint your fellow doctors with the same brush as those idiots. I’m not here trying to say you’re the same as the idiot who took fish tank cleaner to protect himself from Covid.

Those of you who are arguing about this, have you watched the whole thing or read the transcript? Here’s a transcript: Autism Link Press Conference RFK Jr Oz Trump | Rev

Yes, there are idiots out there. But medial professional should strongly be objecting to things like “And then hepatitis B is sexually transmitted. There's no reason to give a baby that's almost just born hepatitis B. So I would say wait till the baby is 12 years old and formed and take Hepatitis B.”
Not only can it transfer from mother to child but from other relatives caring for the baby. This statement is unequivocally false and places children in unnecessary danger. And just like there are idiots who will do the oppoite of what he says, there are also a lot who will do exactly what he says. A good portion of the press conference was spent on rehashing RFKJr and Trump’s long-held antivax views. They’re being up arguments that have been proven false over and over again in some of the best epidemiological studies we have across the world. “Too many too soon,” “mercury in vaccines” (not present anymore anyway despite ample evidence that it was not harmful). The amount in a vaccine was about as much as in a can of tuna, but in a much more readily cleared form than the tuna.

“Which is basically commonly known as Tylenol during pregnancy and can be associated with a very increased risk of autism. So taking Tylenol is not good. All right, I'll say it; it's not good. For this reason they are strongly recommending that women limit Tylenol use during pregnancy unless medically necessary.”

This is simply not what the current medical literature says. You can’t do an RCT on it, but the association does seem to disappear in better-controlled studies (ie a sibling study where one was exposed to Tylenol and one wasn’t) did not show association. Making this accusation isn’t harmless. It will lead pregnant women to avoid Tylenol when they should be taking it, including high fever, leading to harm to mother and baby.

 

[clubdeac]

This is absurd. Yes, there are idiots who will turn this into the “Tylenol challenge.” But you guys are trying to paint your fellow doctors with the same brush as those idiots. I’m not here trying to say you’re the same as the idiot who took fish tank cleaner to protect himself from Covid.

Those of you who are arguing about this, have you watched the whole thing or read the transcript? Here’s a transcript: Autism Link Press Conference RFK Jr Oz Trump | Rev

Yes, there are idiots out there. But medial professional should strongly be objecting to things like “And then hepatitis B is sexually transmitted. There's no reason to give a baby that's almost just born hepatitis B. So I would say wait till the baby is 12 years old and formed and take Hepatitis B.”
Not only can it transfer from mother to child but from other relatives caring for the baby. This statement is unequivocally false and places children in unnecessary danger. And just like there are idiots who will do the oppoite of what he says, there are also a lot who will do exactly what he says. A good portion of the press conference was spent on rehashing RFKJr and Trump’s long-held antivax views. They’re being up arguments that have been proven false over and over again in some of the best epidemiological studies we have across the world. “Too many too soon,” “mercury in vaccines” (not present anymore anyway despite ample evidence that it was not harmful). The amount in a vaccine was about as much as in a can of tuna, but in a much more readily cleared form than the tuna.

“Which is basically commonly known as Tylenol during pregnancy and can be associated with a very increased risk of autism. So taking Tylenol is not good. All right, I'll say it; it's not good. For this reason they are strongly recommending that women limit Tylenol use during pregnancy unless medically necessary.”

This is simply not what the current medical literature says. You can’t do an RCT on it, but the association does seem to disappear in better-controlled studies (ie a sibling study where one was exposed to Tylenol and one wasn’t) did not show association. Making this accusation isn’t harmless. It will lead pregnant women to avoid Tylenol when they should be taking it, including high fever, leading to harm to mother and baby.

“Not only can it transfer from mother to child but from other relatives caring for the baby.”

Wait, is this your stance? I’m confused bc this statement is as unscientific as they get. Do you also believe HIV can be transferred from relatives caring for the baby or from water fountains? Aren’t mothers tested for Hepatitis B anyway? If they test negative, why does the baby need the vax?

And Tylenol has been associated with autism. Multiple studies have shown this. Associated being the key word. Correlation doesn’t mean causation and he didn’t say that so quit saying he did. I bet if Biden said it you’d be fine

 

[callmeanesthesia]

“Not only can it transfer from mother to child but from other relatives caring for the baby.”

Wait, is this your stance? I’m confused bc this statement is as unscientific as they get. Do you also believe HIV can be transferred from relatives caring for the baby or from water fountains? Aren’t mothers tested for Hepatitis B anyway? If they test negative, why does the baby need the vax?

And Tylenol has been associated with autism. Multiple studies have shown this. Associated being the key word. Correlation doesn’t mean causation and he didn’t say that so quit saying he did. I bet if Biden said it you’d be fine

Trump said it’s sexually transmitted so there’s no reason to give it to young children. That’s so misleading and incomplete that we can just go ahead and call it wrong. Here’s a few pinned links to prove a point, not that it really needs additional evidence if you went to med school.

Horizontal transmission on a football team:

Horizontal transmission of hepatitis B virus among players of an American football team - PubMed

Eleven cases of hepatitis B virus (HBV) infection (5 cases of acute hepatitis B and 6 of subclinical infection) were detected among 65 members of our university's American football team during a period of 19 months. All tested positive for antibody to the hepatitis B surface antigen (HB(s)Ag) or...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Paternal transfer: Multiple intra-familial transmission patterns of hepatitis B virus genotype D in north-eastern Egypt - PubMed

Horizontal transfer among chronically infected household contacts: Horizontal Modes of Transmission of Hepatitis B Virus (HBV): A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - PubMed

It’s like the other end of the spectrum of the very thing you’re mocking above. Trump says something and you must immediately jump to rationalize and defend it, no matter how misleading it is.

 

[bubaghanush]

You seem to approach this dogmatically. Just observe the data. The entire corpus of data. Make a decision. It's called science.

I trust science from the esteemed President, not these crazy liberal organizations like ACOG, AMA, and the AAP.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

I trust science from the esteemed President, not these crazy liberal organizations like ACOG, AMA, and the AAP.

“ACOG supports the use of acetaminophen in pregnancy when taken as needed, in moderation, and after consultation with a doctor.

Acetaminophen has long been established as a safe pain reliever and fever reducer for use during pregnancy.”

The irony is that their actual recommendation is not very different, take it only when needed and in consultation with your doctor. Something Trump and RFKJr are touting as some new announcement that the Man doesn’t want you to know. The problem is in what Trump said: that studies have shown a large increased risk of autism if you take Tylenol while pregnant. That is not a correct assessment of the overall body of literature. Same with the “too many too soon” argument. It’s something that might make “intuitive” sense but has been roundly disproven.

As for me, when the rare pregnant lady lands in my office, I’ll tell her what I always have: talk to your OB about what you can and can’t take. I can’t do shots for you until after delivery.

 

[bubaghanush]

I trust science from the esteemed President, not these crazy liberal organizations like ACOG, AMA, and the AAP.

Additional important medical recommendations released by the President. Hopefully AAP can put their liberal bias aside and get on this new vaccine schedule ASAP.

Trump:

"Pregnant Women, DON’T USE TYLENOL UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, DON’T GIVE TYLENOL TO YOUR YOUNG CHILD FOR VIRTUALLY ANY REASON, BREAK UP THE MMR SHOT INTO THREE TOTALLY SEPARATE SHOTS (NOT MIXED!), TAKE CHICKEN P SHOT SEPARATELY, TAKE HEPATITAS B SHOT AT 12 YEARS OLD, OR OLDER, AND, IMPORTANTLY, TAKE VACCINE IN 5 SEPARATE MEDICAL VISITS!"

 

[manowar rules]

What progressives don't realize is that Trump is their God. He alone determines what morality and value system they religiously adhere to on any given day. If DJT say something is good, they decide it's evil. If DJT says something is evil, they say its good. Is there logic behind this? No. Because that's not how religion works. They are utterly controlled by this fascinating new religion, yet they have no idea.

I don’t know about the religion stuff, but you are definitely correct that many liberals will react negatively against pretty much anything Trump does. Of course, conservatives had the similar negative reactions and memes about Biden.

It’s more intense with Trump because, let’s be real, Trump has altered the direction of this country much more than Biden did, whether you think that’s good or bad. If we are going to use the religion metaphor, I don’t recall Biden or any other president in memory having as many hats, bobble heads, and other idols of reverence as Donald Trump.

 

[clubdeac]

How much Tylenol do you, on average, consume per day?

None

 

[bedrock]

One key thing to keep in mind is that Tylenol does so little that it’s not much of a loss to just skip it altogether, both for regular people and for pregnant women.

 

[BoardingDoc]

One key thing to keep in mind is that Tylenol does so little that it’s not much of a loss to just skip it altogether, both for regular people and for pregnant women.

I dunno about that. For severe pain, sure. As an easy OTC med for myalgias, fever, mild pain which is bad enough that you want to take something but not so bad that you're looking for "real drugs" ... I think it works phenomenally well.

On occasions where I've had the flu or covid and was stuck on the couch for a couple of days, Tylenol plus nsaids has been fantastic, and clearly superior to nsaids alone.

 

[clubdeac]

What’s hilarious is all these medical societies are now coming out saying women and children will die if they don’t get their Tylenol. Sure, if they have a high fever give it to them. But their statements are so over the top and politically driven. Reminds me of the outcry over the dangers of hydroxychloroquine which is one of the safest drugs on the market. The media and major medical societies are so hyperbolic it’s hard to take them seriously. TDS is alive and well

 

[callmeanesthesia]

What’s hilarious is all these medical societies are now coming out saying women and children will die if they don’t get their Tylenol. Sure, if they have a high fever give it to them. But their statements are so over the top and politically driven. Reminds me of the outcry over the dangers of hydroxychloroquine which is one of the safest drugs on the market. The media and major medical societies are so hyperbolic it’s hard to take them seriously. TDS is alive and well

• What is ACOG’s position regarding the use of acetaminophen in pregnancy?
  ACOG supports the use of acetaminophen in pregnancy when taken as needed, in moderation, and after consultation with a doctor.
  
  Acetaminophen has long been established as a safe pain reliever and fever reducer for use during pregnancy.

Straight from ACOG website. You’re the one being hyperbolic. TDS - Trump Defensiveness Syndrome? Any assertion he makes, no matter how off the wall, and you must leap to defend him from the Evil Liberals. Medical professionals with real expertise in the subject are basically saying to Trump and RFK Jr “Hey, you have no idea what you’re talking about and your attempt to help is doing more harm than good.” They’re not saying autism isn’t a problem, or that everyone should go gorge themselves on Tylenol. They’re saying the balance of the medical evidence supports the use of Tylenol when needed, and Tylenol is not the answer to rising autism rates.
Like I’ve said before, Trump and RFK Jr have bad answers to good questions.

 

[bedrock]

I dunno about that. For severe pain, sure. As an easy OTC med for myalgias, fever, mild pain which is bad enough that you want to take something but not so bad that you're looking for "real drugs" ... I think it works phenomenally well.

On occasions where I've had the flu or covid and was stuck on the couch for a couple of days, Tylenol plus nsaids has been fantastic, and clearly superior to nsaids alone.

I’m glad it helped you. I notice zero additional benefit taking Tylenol over NSAIDS, and I’m not the only one.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I’m glad it helped you. I notice zero additional benefit taking Tylenol over NSAIDS, and I’m not the only one.

I hear you. There's certainly a not insignificant number of people who are low/non responders.

 

[SSdoc33]

Tylenol is a good drug. Reduces fevers. Next to zero side effects

I like it when I have a mild headache

I’ll reach for that before the nsaid for sure

 

[bubaghanush]

Trump had this posted for about 12 hours then took it down. The technology may not be ready for prime time. I expect Trump's knowledge of 'medbeds' is just as robust as his pharmacology and vaccine expertise. Looking forward to adopting medbeds in our clinic as soon as Trump releases them.

 

[clubdeac]

Straight from ACOG website. You’re the one being hyperbolic. TDS - Trump Defensiveness Syndrome? Any assertion he makes, no matter how off the wall, and you must leap to defend him from the Evil Liberals. Medical professionals with real expertise in the subject are basically saying to Trump and RFK Jr “Hey, you have no idea what you’re talking about and your attempt to help is doing more harm than good.” They’re not saying autism isn’t a problem, or that everyone should go gorge themselves on Tylenol. They’re saying the balance of the medical evidence supports the use of Tylenol when needed, and Tylenol is not the answer to rising autism rates.
Like I’ve said before, Trump and RFK Jr have bad answers to good questions.

Dude read any article and it says it’s now dangerous to not give Tylenol during pregnancy. I didn’t just make that up. There’s some truth to that but it’s hyperbolic

 

[callmeanesthesia]

Dude read any article and it says it’s now dangerous to not give Tylenol during pregnancy. I didn’t just make that up. There’s some truth to that but it’s hyperbolic

View attachment 410125

I didn’t realize CNN was a medical society.

 

[po_boy]

Tylenol is a good drug. Reduces fevers. Next to zero side effects

I like it when I have a mild headache

I’ll reach for that before the nsaid for sure

It’s also the leading cause of liver failure.

It’s not a political issue

 

[Ducttape]

Says it perfectly

as stated by others, the focus should be on what trump said, because he is not a medical professional and he was giving medical advice. people will hear that, and their "friends" will hear that, and that may negatively impact pregnant women's ability for pain and fever reduction.

same with RFK.

odd they could not find a reputable physician or society come out with the same recommendation.

===

Dude read any article and it says it’s now dangerous to not give Tylenol during pregnancy. I didn’t just make that up. There’s some truth to that but it’s hyperbolic

not sure how you misconstrue the statement posted by CNN.

Given the conflicting literature and lack of clear causal evidence, XXX wants to encourage clinicians to exercise their best judgment in use of acetaminophen for fevers and pain in pregnancy by prescribing the lowest effective dose for the shortest duration when treatment is required. Furthermore, XXX recognizes that acetaminophen is often the only tool for fevers and pain in pregnancy, as other alternatives (e.g., NSAIDs) have well documented adverse effects.

can you guess who made the above statement?

===

It’s also the leading cause of liver failure.

It’s not a political issue

it is a political issue when politicians with no medical training get on a podium and tell pregnant women not to take it.

it is a leading cause of acute liver failure. this is almost entirely due to intentional overdose or accidental overdose because it is taken above recommended doses, but not due to usual dosing.

500 deaths attributed per year. it is a leading cause for liver transplantation.

i could not find any published incidence rate for pregnant women presenting with acute liver failure due to acetaminophen overdose.

 

[1 Up]

I don’t know about the religion stuff, but you are definitely correct that many liberals will react negatively against pretty much anything Trump does. Of course, conservatives had the similar negative reactions and memes about Biden.

It’s more intense with Trump because, let’s be real, Trump has altered the direction of this country much more than Biden did, whether you think that’s good or bad. If we are going to use the religion metaphor, I don’t recall Biden or any other president in memory having as many hats, bobble heads, and other idols of reverence as Donald Trump.

I characterize Trump's actions as a reaction to anti-Democratic authoritarianism from the political establishment (more recently, simply, the Democrat party). It's a chicken or the egg conversation.

1) Intentionally flooding the country with illegal aliens despite being perfectly capable of securing the border, and despite polls shows that all Americans overwhelmingly wanted the border closed as a matter of national emergency, whilst the entire Democrat party simultaneously voted unanimously against Voter Identification. This is only done for one reason: to win elections illegally. This is otherwise known as a non-military soft coup.

2) Calling the political opposition "fascists" and "Nazis" until, predictably, assassinations start being attempted and carried out by radicalized people. This is otherwise known as incitement of political violence. It's a sort of pernicious vague terrorism at best, and intentional smoldering insurrection at worst.

What American's have witnessed in the past 4 years before Trump was 1) a soft coup, and 2) intentionally fomented and normalized political violence overwhelmingly by Democrat politicians, against democratically elected Republican politicians, and civilians. And I'd say THIS is what constituted the turning point in American politics. Democrats reacted so severely to the idea that someone like Donald Trump could be president, that they cast away all honor, morality, and democratic values to do anything to thwart an outsider from coming to power. Their behavior is the anti-thesis of democracy.

The President, like the rest of us, watched this unfold for years, and he also narrowly evaded death during two separate assassination attempts.

The notion that anyone in his shoes would be doing anything different than he's doing now is laughable. No reasonable human being, having seen what he's seen, and having been through what he's been through would behave differently.

American's have woken up to the enemy within. Nobody is mincing words anymore. There is actual evil within this country. And there are actually people who prioritize their own power and the ability to force their value systems on others, over actual democracy. They will not succeed.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

I characterize Trump's actions as a reaction to anti-Democratic authoritarianism from the political establishment (more recently, simply, the Democrat party). It's a chicken or the egg conversation.

1) Intentionally flooding the country with illegal aliens despite being perfectly capable of securing the border, and despite polls shows that all Americans overwhelmingly wanted the border closed as a matter of national emergency, whilst the entire Democrat party simultaneously voted unanimously against Voter Identification. This is only done for one reason: to win elections illegally. This is otherwise known as a non-military soft coup.

2) Calling the political opposition "fascists" and "Nazis" until, predictably, assassinations start being attempted and carried out by radicalized people. This is otherwise known as incitement of political violence. It's a sort of pernicious vague terrorism at best, and intentional smoldering insurrection at worst.

What American's have witnessed in the past 4 years before Trump was 1) a soft coup, and 2) intentionally fomented and normalized political violence overwhelmingly by Democrat politicians, against democratically elected Republican politicians, and civilians. And I'd say THIS is what constituted the turning point in American politics. Democrats reacted so severely to the idea that someone like Donald Trump could be president, that they cast away all honor, morality, and democratic values to do anything to thwart an outsider from coming to power. Their behavior is the anti-thesis of democracy.

The President, like the rest of us, watched this unfold for years, and he also narrowly evaded death during two separate assassination attempts.

The notion that anyone in his shoes would be doing anything different than he's doing now is laughable. No reasonable human being, having seen what he's seen, and having been through what he's been through would behave differently.

American's have woken up to the enemy within. Nobody is mincing words anymore. There is actual evil within this country. And there are actually people who prioritize their own power and the ability to force their value systems on others, over actual democracy. They will not succeed.

TF does this have to do with Tylenol?

 

[1 Up]

TF does this have to do with Tylenol?

Everything.

 

[clubdeac]

I characterize Trump's actions as a reaction to anti-Democratic authoritarianism from the political establishment (more recently, simply, the Democrat party). It's a chicken or the egg conversation.

1) Intentionally flooding the country with illegal aliens despite being perfectly capable of securing the border, and despite polls shows that all Americans overwhelmingly wanted the border closed as a matter of national emergency, whilst the entire Democrat party simultaneously voted unanimously against Voter Identification. This is only done for one reason: to win elections illegally. This is otherwise known as a non-military soft coup.

2) Calling the political opposition "fascists" and "Nazis" until, predictably, assassinations start being attempted and carried out by radicalized people. This is otherwise known as incitement of political violence. It's a sort of pernicious vague terrorism at best, and intentional smoldering insurrection at worst.

What American's have witnessed in the past 4 years before Trump was 1) a soft coup, and 2) intentionally fomented and normalized political violence overwhelmingly by Democrat politicians, against democratically elected Republican politicians, and civilians. And I'd say THIS is what constituted the turning point in American politics. Democrats reacted so severely to the idea that someone like Donald Trump could be president, that they cast away all honor, morality, and democratic values to do anything to thwart an outsider from coming to power. Their behavior is the anti-thesis of democracy.

The President, like the rest of us, watched this unfold for years, and he also narrowly evaded death during two separate assassination attempts.

The notion that anyone in his shoes would be doing anything different than he's doing now is laughable. No reasonable human being, having seen what he's seen, and having been through what he's been through would behave differently.

American's have woken up to the enemy within. Nobody is mincing words anymore. There is actual evil within this country. And there are actually people who prioritize their own power and the ability to force their value systems on others, over actual democracy. They will not succeed.

Well said…. Perfect synopsis of what has transpired. Trump is nothing more than a result of the left’s actions over the past decade

 

[manowar rules]

American's have woken up to the enemy within. Nobody is mincing words anymore. There is actual evil within this country. And there are actually people who prioritize their own power and the ability to force their value systems on others, over actual democracy. They will not succeed.

I agree with your words in this paragraph completely, but it describes exactly how I feel about Trump and the Project 2025 people who support him. And believe me, I have no love for the Democratic Party leadership.

It is fascinating to me that we’re both intelligent people who use the same evidence to come to completely opposite conclusions.

 

[clubdeac]

I agree with your words in this paragraph completely, but it describes exactly how I feel about Trump and the Project 2025 people who support him. And believe me, I have no love for the Democratic Party leadership.

It is fascinating to me that we’re both intelligent people who use the same evidence to come to completely opposite conclusions.

The algorithm is feeding you an entirely different narrative than it’s feeding the right. And both narratives are being repeated ad nauseam through apparently and seemingly trust worthy sources so both sides think they see the truth

I have a buddy who posts non stop about the horrors of the 2025 project. He asks me about it and I’m like honesty I haven’t heard much about it. Heard it was a conservative movement trying to push their agenda through capital hill but also heard Trump rejected it. Haven’t heard anything since nor does it seem important

That’s just one of many examples

 

[Agast]

I have a buddy who posts non stop about the horrors of the 2025 project. He asks me about it and I’m like honesty I haven’t heard much about it. Heard it was a conservative movement trying to push their agenda through capital hill but also heard Trump rejected it. Haven’t heard anything since nor does it seem important

That’s just one of many examples

I guess you missed Trump’s announcement yesterday

 

[Agast]

 

[manowar rules]

Wow timely

 

[clubdeac]

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I get why the left hates him. He trolls like no other. Unfortunately most of the right just laugh when he says ridiculous stuff like this. I wish they wouldn’t but they do