Who came up with the idea that the medicalschool subreddit is the “less toxic” community, while sdn is the “toxic” community?

[psyspy]

Title. I disagree with it

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[Lawpy]

Redditors

 

[Billiam95]

I think the content between r/medschool and sdn differs pretty significantly. R/medschool has a lot of jokes, complaints about admin, venting, and some school advice - more topical threads with little disagreement. In contrast, a lot of posts on sdn are from students really struggling who need a wake up call - "I'm failing all my practice tests, can I take step1?" or "I've failed ms1 twice, how do I get a 3rd shot?" In those cases, realistic (and sometimes necessarily harsh) are, imo, misconstrued as toxic - some students need a reality check, and they get it here.

 

[Goro]

Probably someone who came here looking for what they wanted to hear, and hugs and kisses, and not the realistic advice we give.

 

[operaman]

I would take issue with the term “toxic” but if we accept the meaning that Gen Z typically applies, it’s probably accurate. Toxic to them typically means anything they don’t like or anything that makes them feel sad/stressed.

Reddit’s up/down vote system definitely favors people hearing and seeing more of what they collectively want to see and hear. It’s not surprising this rewards content that reinforces their beliefs and biases and penalizes any content that challenges their worldview.

So on Reddit, if you’re planning to head to the Caribbean for school and follow that up with an Ivy League Ortho residency, go right ahead! And then your future post about the broken system for IMGs will also get voted up while any comments calling out your poor decision making will get voted down.

SDN is one of the few places where you can get unfiltered opinion from experienced people. The verification system here also lets you weigh the credentials of the person writing, and we have a lot of experienced clinicians, fellows, residents, program directors, preclinical faculty, adcoms, etc who contribute. Sometimes the voices of wisdom and experience don’t always say what someone wants to hear.

Far from being toxic, I think this is far healthier than whatever Reddit does. Every premed we’ve kept out of the Caribbean surely appreciates the tough love they got when match day rolls around! And for those who are encouraged to leave medicine entirely, I think the sooner they accept reality and chart a new course the better off they are. Telling someone to give MS1 that fourth try and surely they’ll pass this time and be just fine is only condemning someone to more debt and no prospects.

Sometimes reality itself is “toxic” and the antidote isn’t delusional groupthink.

 

[throwaway123342]

So on Reddit, if you’re planning to head to the Caribbean for school and follow that up with an Ivy League Ortho residency, go right ahead! And then your future post about the broken system for IMGs will also get voted up while any comments calling out your poor decision making will get voted down.

Show me any highly voted post on reddit where people encouraged going to the Caribbean for medical school.

Personally the only content on SDN that seems to be better than what is on reddit are the physician specific forums where they discuss salaries and practice-specific problems.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Reddit will usually give the answers that want to be heard (ie. Sure apply to ENT with a 205 and poor research) whereas SDN will give the answer that is more accurate.

 

[Lawpy]

"I'm failing all my practice tests, can I take step1?" or "I've failed ms1 twice, how do I get a 3rd shot?"

I will say those threads are depressing to see, and I’m hoping to see more success stories posted on here

 

[deleted1079620]

I will say those threads are depressing to see, and I’m hoping to see more success stories posted on here

People don’t come to online forums to read posts that go “I watched lectures and boards material, did practice questions & anki, studied hard and passed all my classes then studied UFAPS during dedicated and passed COMLEX/Step on my first try.” They come looking for miracles & short cuts.

It’s the same in anything that takes work, and it’s human nature. How many patients want a magic pill to fix their weight problems, diabetes and hypertension instead of eating right, exercising and stopping bad habits like smoking & drinking?

 

[Goro]

I would take issue with the term “toxic” but if we accept the meaning that Gen Z typically applies, it’s probably accurate. Toxic to them typically means anything they don’t like or anything that makes them feel sad/stressed.

Sometimes reality itself is “toxic” and the antidote isn’t delusional groupthink.

Amazingly, there are not one but two threads that prove the wise O-man's point in the Pre-Med forum!

 

[efle]

Agree with Opera. Reddit tends to upvote terrible but feel-good content, like encouraging people with terrible scores and red flags that they will make it if they want it badly enough. SDN isn't like that

 

[mrbreakfast]

I think another factor is that many posters on the forum are past medical school. It's harder to be circumspect when you're in the midst of it. My advice on this forum about what to do when you've failed something multiple times definitely isn't the conversation I had that night in the library going into M3 year when my good med school friend told me they had failed Step 1 for the second time and had been formally asked to withdraw. Some distance - temporally and emotionally - is helpful.

Also, as medical professionals we all anchor on bad cases. I can talk about the guy I know who matched ortho with two bad step scores through sheer hard work, or my friend who barely passed every exam they ever took in medical school and still matched at their top choice in GS, or about the friend I mentioned above, who passed Step 1 on their third try and is about to graduate from residency; those are feel-good stories, but they aren't realistic role models. What is realistic are the cautionary tales: the people I personally know who talked their way out of every residency interview they got, who got expelled as an M3, and who had to drop out during residency interviews in M4. Sometimes knowing what bad can happen if you stray helps us stay far away.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I also think that people need to take the advice here with a grain of salt (to an extent). My initial post, I was told I wouldn’t get in anywhere and wound up getting in. Sometimes it’s just random. But probabilistically, sdn gives good advice. Though, one shouldn’t be completely discouraged.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I also think that people need to take the advice here with a grain of salt (to an extent). My initial post, I was told I wouldn’t get in anywhere and wound up getting in. Sometimes it’s just random. But probabilistically, sdn gives good advice. Though, one shouldn’t be completely discouraged.

I agree. I see people on here saying MCAT scores below a 510 are pretty much only good for getting accepted to DO schools. Honestly some of those applicants getting that advice had better stats than me for gpa/MCAT. My MCAT was below that, I only applied to 1 school cause it’s the only school I wanted to attend, it’s MD and I got accepted. Definitely gota take some stuff with a grain of salt.

 

[deleted1065184]

Because SDN used to legit be toxic af. It has gotten so much better over the years. If you didn't have incredible stats and ECs, people would unironically tell you to give up or try for the Caribbean. Nowadays, there's not much sugar coating (which I appreciate), but it's far less competitive and people genuinely try to help each other out.

Reddit, which used to be less toxic, has become super toxic over the years. Also, every now and then, there are Redditors from other subreddits (often right-wing folks) who will brigade r/premed, r/medicalschool, and r/residency posts. The only topics they seem to be able to agree on is Caribbean = bad, SDN = the devil & APPs = Satan lol

 

[efle]

I also think that people need to take the advice here with a grain of salt (to an extent). My initial post, I was told I wouldn’t get in anywhere and wound up getting in. Sometimes it’s just random. But probabilistically, sdn gives good advice. Though, one shouldn’t be completely discouraged.

Didn't your red flag get officially erased tho? Or did you disclose it on your primary ERAS before it was, and still get IIs?

 

[efle]

I agree. I see people on here saying MCAT scores below a 510 are pretty much only good for getting accepted to DO schools. Honestly some of those applicants getting that advice had better stats than me for gpa/MCAT. My MCAT was below that, I only applied to 1 school cause it’s the only school I wanted to attend, it’s MD and I got accepted. Definitely gota take some stuff with a grain of salt.

I think it has a lot to do with who turns to the internet for advice. Similar phenomenon with college confidential. If someone wants to go to college and medschool at their midwest/south state schools, there's really no reason to come on a place like SDN. If you're gunning for big names or don't have a reliable route (e.g. all the Californian cookie cutters with 3.6 GPAs and average scores) then SDN becomes much more valuable for building a long list of schools worth applying to or how to help make an app that will stand out enough. There is an annual survey of med students that asks how many places they interview and get accepted to, and it actually shows a huge chunk (like 1/3 people) have only 1-3 interviews leading to 1-2 admits (usually their instate programs).

r/premed, r/medicalschool, and r/residency posts. The only topics they seem to be able to agree on is Caribbean = bad, SDN = the devil & APPs = Satan lol

I also cannot stand the constant mid level bashing over there. My PGY-1 year has been at a hospital that mixes medicine interns, psych interns doing their required med rotations, and experienced hospitalist mid levels, all trading the exact same role as the junior provider on the med team under a senior resident and attending. I can honestly say if it was my family member getting admitted, I'd pick the mid level to care for them over a brand new medicine intern or a psych intern.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Didn't your red flag get officially erased tho? Or did you disclose it on your primary ERAS before it was, and still get IIs?

I disclosed on all primary and secondary apps for amcas. It got sealed after I was accepted, so I was wondering for eras

 

[efle]

I disclosed on all primary and secondary apps for amcas. It got sealed after I was accepted, so I was wondering for eras

Dang, makes me wonder if you would've absolutely cleaned up the 2022 cycle if you could leave it off the app. I meant to say AMCAS, but yeah for ERAS you'll be able to say upfront that it's expunged or whatever, so way less of a hurdle

 

[deomnibusdubitandum]

How do I downvote this post

 

[DarkBluMage]

Because SDN used to legit be toxic af. It has gotten so much better over the years. If you didn't have incredible stats and ECs, people would unironically tell you to give up or try for the Caribbean. Nowadays, there's not much sugar coating (which I appreciate), but it's far less competitive and people genuinely try to help each other out.

Reddit, which used to be less toxic, has become super toxic over the years. Also, every now and then, there are Redditors from other subreddits (often right-wing folks) who will brigade r/premed, r/medicalschool, and r/residency posts. The only topics they seem to be able to agree on is Caribbean = bad, SDN = the devil & APPs = Satan lol

What’s APP?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Advance practice providers

 

[mrbreakfast]

My initial post, I was told I wouldn’t get in anywhere and wound up getting in. Sometimes it’s just random. But probabilistically, sdn gives good advice. Though, one shouldn’t be completely discouraged.

Definitely gota take some stuff with a grain of salt.

There are plenty of success stories here that aren't on the front page. Years and years ago I (under a different account) was told on this site that I would be very unlikely to be accepted into medical school, and ended up getting a single acceptance to one of my "safety" schools. Not the best start, but fast forward and multiple programs that rejected me as a med student are now asking me to join their clinical faculty (I know the two aren't connected, but still). Doesn't mean the advice was bad, or even inaccurate. Sometimes you need to be told that failure is on the horizon if things don't change. The understanding that you are capable of being wrong and making mistakes is forever useful as a physician.

 

[DarkBluMage]

There are plenty of success stories here that aren't on the front page. Years and years ago I (under a different account) was told on this site that I would be very unlikely to be accepted into medical school, and ended up getting a single acceptance to one of my "safety" schools. Not the best start, but fast forward and multiple programs that rejected me as a med student are now asking me to join their clinical faculty (I know the two aren't connected, but still). Doesn't mean the advice was bad, or even inaccurate. Sometimes you need to be told that failure is on the horizon if things don't change. The understanding that you are capable of being wrong and making mistakes is forever useful as a physician.

I definitely agree. I would never advise anyone to do what I did and apply to only one school. Definitely not the norm but you can’t always let advice determine/lead your path. Weighing realistic chances with hope is important.

 

[longhaul3]

Reddit has changed a lot. It used to be more irreverent and off-beat. Now it is one of the most popular sites on the internet and is full of mostly complaining mixed with politically correct posturing. I'm not sure this is true but my impression is that GenZ has recently discovered Reddit and has taken over. As far as I remember there the medical school/residency presence on Reddit was negligible a few years ago, and now it seems to me like it's become the default forum.

Everyone there seems convinced that the administration at every med school is out to get them and is therefore "toxic." Of course this is a preposterous idea and it mostly boils down to a lack of introspection and personal accountability. At this point in my life almost everyone I know is a doctor and I've never heard anyone complain in real life about their medical school culture or administration in this way.

I think this forum is more stable in its user base and has a healthier distribution of contributors who actually have relevant experience available to provide perspective. Meanwhile on Reddit these exaggerated complaints resonate and echo out of control.

The residency subreddit is the same. Endless complaining about workload and attendings who are supposedly both domineering and incompetent (nevermind that they've been doing this for 20 years and seen generations of residents come and go). According to every medicine and EM intern, all surgeons are rude and clueless and, my favorite, categorically don't care about their patients. Meanwhile they've been residents for all of 10 minutes and don't understand what they're complaining about and refuse to think critically about why they might expect to get push back about a consult for back pain with no imaging. Everyone else likes to read the same thing and upvotes it, rinse and repeat.

 

[Lawpy]

Reddit has changed a lot. It used to be more irreverent and off-beat. Now it is one of the most popular sites on the internet and is full of mostly complaining mixed with politically correct posturing. I'm not sure this is true but my impression is that GenZ has recently discovered Reddit and has taken over. As far as I remember there the medical school/residency presence on Reddit was negligible a few years ago, and now it seems to me like it's become the default forum.

Everyone there seems convinced that the administration at every med school is out to get them and is therefore "toxic." Of course this is a preposterous idea and it mostly boils down to a lack of introspection and personal accountability. At this point in my life almost everyone I know is a doctor and I've never heard anyone complain in real life about their medical school culture or administration in this way.

I think this forum is more stable in its user base and has a healthier distribution of contributors who actually have relevant experience available to provide perspective. Meanwhile on Reddit these exaggerated complaints resonate and echo out of control.

The residency subreddit is the same. Endless complaining about workload and attendings who are supposedly both domineering and incompetent (nevermind that they've been doing this for 20 years and seen generations of residents come and go). According to every medicine and EM intern, all surgeons are rude and clueless and, my favorite, categorically don't care about their patients. Meanwhile they've been residents for all of 10 minutes and don't understand what they're complaining about and refuse to think critically about why they might expect to get push back about a consult for back pain with no imaging. Everyone else likes to read the same thing and upvotes it, rinse and repeat.

Reddit is also filled with a lot of bots and aggressive astroturfing and brigading. The quality of Reddit overall has deteriorated significantly

 

[Hzreio]

“Sdn is better than Reddit” -sdners

“Reddit is better than sdn” -redditors

 

[deleted1065184]

“Sdn is better than Reddit” -sdners

“Reddit is better than sdn” -redditors

I use both and SDN is objectively just more helpful to premeds and med students. There's some noise, but there are people who legit know what they're talking about on here constantly. Reddit is a bunch of venting, and sh*tposting memes, crappy advice, and Sankey diagrams lmfao

 

[Hzreio]

I use both and SDN is objectively just more helpful to premeds and med students. There's some noise, but there are people who legit know what they're talking about on here constantly. Reddit is a bunch of venting, and sh*tposting memes, crappy advice, and Sankey diagrams lmfao

I use both too and I disagree. Although I will say Reddit has more memes lol