Who here does some real estate investing?

[acidbase1]

Was just going to ask your thoughts and experience in doing so. Clearly a vague question given it being a broad subject (commercial vs residential)

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[Psai]

Haven't done it but WCI did a podcast on it and he seems happy with it. He does REIts with fidelity iirc but it's a tiny portion of his portfolio.

 

[acidbase1]

Fairly new grad, have been waiting for a correction in the market. Has yet to happen but I feel it’s coming

 

[Man o War]

What kind are you considering? Flipping, landlord, slumlord, REITs, multi unit?

 

[Gas]

Did a bunch of investments with RealtyShares - real estate crowdfunding. There are quite a few of these companies. RealtyShares recently ran out of venture capital and is not launching any new investments. They are still servicing current ones for now. Variety of instruments - debt (first and second lien), preferred equity, common equity, residential and commercial. Overall I have been happy with them.

Considering another company now that RealtyShares is closed. Tons of them out there - White Coat Investor has done some informative reviews, but I haven't had time to go over them thoroughly.

Beware - you need to be an accredited investor, and real estate investing in this nature can be risky. Upside is that you are a silent partner - I don't have to deal with tenants and their 2 AM phone calls. I get enough of those from OB.

 

[facted]

Thinking of getting involved soon. Cheap single family homes to rent out. Have relatives who own 10+ and get a solid 6-7% plus any longtern appreciation. Seems like a great way to diversify.

 

[Lecithin5]

Thinking of getting involved soon. Cheap single family homes to rent out. Have relatives who own 10+ and get a solid 6-7% plus any longtern appreciation. Seems like a great way to diversify.

How about multifamily? Duplex/townhouses, or even 4-plexes etc

 

[facted]

How about multifamily? Duplex/townhouses, or even 4-plexes etc

Don't know much about that, though I'm sure it's great too. I only know single family homes/apts.

 

[acidbase1]

What kind are you considering? Flipping, landlord, slumlord, REITs, multi unit?

Higher end landlord residential and offices

Bought my first two a few months back, running the condo as Airbnb until a full time tenant is obtained

Garden office has ten year NNN with dentist

Both 10 caps

 

[DM27]

Real estate investing, in terms of owning property and leasing it out, is something I have been curious about. How exactly do you come across the opportunities to purchase these properties? Are you using listings, an agent, a real estate investing group in your area, or just driving around? I have an REI and have dabbled in the crowdfunding/accredited investor process, but I was curious how one gets into something more tangible.

 

[Man o War]

I have done apartment buildings, I’ve been a landlord, and I was an investor in developing a parcel of land into a subdivision. The only one that didn’t make me a good return that was worth my time was being a landlord. The problem with active real estate investing such as these is the success of the investment is very dependent on many factors. Your location, the housing market, etc. I took major advantage of the housing crash a decade ago, betting that things would bounce back. They did, so it was a good investment for me.

 

[pgg]

We have one rental home that we bought as a short sale in 2009. It's done well but we're going to sell it in a couple months. The equity we have in it would probably be better off lumped into the rest of our portfolio, which doesn't generate phone calls about broken pool pumps.

 

[Mman]

We have one rental home that we bought as a short sale in 2009. It's done well but we're going to sell it in a couple months. The equity we have in it would probably be better off lumped into the rest of our portfolio, which doesn't generate phone calls about broken pool pumps.

that is the #1 reason I am not currently a landlord renting out places...time and headache. It's all fun and games until the water heater or AC breaks on a saturday and you have to fix it. The main way around that problem is paying someone else to be a property manager for you and deal with all that hassle which cuts out of your profit.

 

[acidbase1]

From those I know who are successful in real estate, property managers are the way to go. But you need a sizable portfolio to make it happen

 

[Lecithin5]

I think real estate is great, and I have diversified my portfolio by investing in real estate. But at the end of the day, all you can hope for with any type of investment, be it stocks or funds or real estate, is a 5-8% return, on average. That’s the bottom line. But again, if the goal is to diversify, then real estate is a good option (in my case, multi-family homes).

 

[sevoflurane]

I think real estate is great, and I have diversified my portfolio by investing in real estate. But at the end of the day, all you can hope for with any type of investment, be it stocks or funds or real estate, is a 5-8% return, on average. That’s the bottom line. But again, if the goal is to diversify, then real estate is a good option (in my case, multi-family homes).

I have 3 real estate investments.
All doing well (had 4, but recently sold a home).
About to invest in a Hotel in Vegas off of LV blvd. 27 million dollar project. 1/2 financed the other 1/2 are private investors.
Guaranteed 6% interest for 2 years.
Refinance and get capital investment back out at year 3.
If ran at 70% occupancy (should be easy to attain), will get 22% of original investment every year until the end of my life OR if a REIT comes around and buys us out. Similar hotel was built for 28 mil and sold for 47 mil a few years ago.

Like anything in real estate. It’s not risk free.

 

[facted]

My dad has 10 or so properties he has outsourced to a manger. He puts in money, the guy does the rest from finding tenants to fixing whatever needs fixing. Pays him 5-7%, but it's so worth it to him. You can't own a bunch of properties and do the work yourself (and have a full time medicine job to boot).

 

[acidbase1]

I’ll tell you this, Airbnb is a straight up nightmare.

Only way it’s worth it is if it’s in a high end market like Vail or LA

 

[okayplayer]

I’m a little surprised so many of you dabble in this. Not my thing but interesting to read your successes. Good for you guys!

 

[s109442]

I own a 1700sq foot free standing condo on lake Kalamazoo that leads out to Lake Michigan. There is a pool. The small town is exciting. $375/night rental 5 day minimum. Could rent the entire season. Revenue was 70K last year, mortgage payment is 4K. I wish I invested in cash flow investments earlier. Management company costs 15 percent. I think that’s too high, but i’m Cashing checks and have zero hassle.

 

[Mman]

Revenue was 70K last year, mortgage payment is 4K. I wish I invested in cash flow investments earlier. Management company costs 15 percent. I think that’s too high, but i’m Cashing checks and have zero hassle.

For the sake of illustration...

Revenue: 70K

Expenses
Mortgage: 48K
Property management: 10K
taxes: what 6-8K per year??
insurance: ???
I assume you are also responsible for upkeep like buying new things when old stuff breaks

So you probably clear about what, $5K per year? How much was the downpayment to purchase the house, maybe $100K? That would be about a 5% return per year on invested money excluding gains in equity but also ignoring maintenance costs and insurance.

 

[acidbase1]

For the sake of illustration...

Revenue: 70K

Expenses
Mortgage: 48K
Property management: 10K
taxes: what 6-8K per year??
insurance: ???
I assume you are also responsible for upkeep like buying new things when old stuff breaks

So you probably clear about what, $5K per year? How much was the downpayment to purchase the house, maybe $100K? That would be about a 5% return per year on invested money excluding gains in equity but also ignoring maintenance costs and insurance.

You’re not taking into account the equity he’s getting when paying the mortgage. In 7-8 years he’ll likely have a 300-400k asset

 

[Mman]

You’re not taking into account the equity he’s getting when paying the mortgage. In 7-8 years he’ll likely have a 300-400k asset

you missed my last sentence where I mentioned I am ignoring the gains of equity but also the costs of maintenance and insurance. And no, he's not gaining $300K to $400K of equity in 7 or 8 years paying $4K per month on a mortgage. That's not how that works. It's more like gaining $500K over 30 years.

And I'm not arguing against anything, just trying to work through the math.

 

[facted]

You’re not taking into account the equity he’s getting when paying the mortgage. In 7-8 years he’ll likely have a 300-400k asset

Or the tax benefits .. Can write off a lot of this and also depreciation.

 

[facted]

For the sake of illustration...

Revenue: 70K

Expenses
Mortgage: 48K
Property management: 10K
taxes: what 6-8K per year??
insurance: ???
I assume you are also responsible for upkeep like buying new things when old stuff breaks

So you probably clear about what, $5K per year? How much was the downpayment to purchase the house, maybe $100K? That would be about a 5% return per year on invested money excluding gains in equity but also ignoring maintenance costs and insurance.

You're missing tax write-offs, including depreciation. This could be big if you already have maxed out other tax--free options.

 

[Mman]

You're missing tax write-offs, including depreciation. This could be big if you already have maxed out other tax--free options.

i'm just ballparking some basic numbers. Obviously can't get exact without exact details. Depreciation probably in the neighborhood of something like $10K per year on something like this (can only depreciate building, not land value).

 

[Shimmy8]

I AirBNB my house. Did 26 weekends last year. Mainly when I’m on call for weekend or traveling.

Have a property manager I pay 15% who deals with bookings, advertising, tenants, organizing the cleaners, etc. I just have to make sure my house is ready to go and my things put up. Couldn’t be happier.

If I had the resources I would buy another property but housing costs here are sky-rocketing and the Airbnb laws are getting stricter, so I may have missed the boat on that. Backup plan if I buy another property and can’t AirBNB would just rent to grad school/young professionals. Tons of them in my city.

Also toying around with investing in a friends start-up/franchise boutique gym. Be new for me but I’m trying to learn as much as I can.

 

[Shimmy8]

I have 3 real estate investments.
All doing well (had 4, but recently sold a home).
About to invest in a Hotel in Vegas off of LV blvd. 27 million dollar project. 1/2 financed the other 1/2 are private investors.
Guaranteed 6% interest for 2 years.
Refinance and get capital investment back out at year 3.
If ran at 70% occupancy (should be easy to attain), will get 22% of original investment every year until the end of my life OR if a REIT comes around and buys us out. Similar hotel was built for 28 mil and sold for 47 mil a few years ago.

Like anything in real estate. It’s not risk free.

What are tax implications for the investment like that on returns before you’re made whole again?

 

[Lecithin5]

Like anything in real estate. It’s not risk free.[/QUOTE]
That’s pretty awesome, good for you. That’s a great ROI, although you’d probably agree that your circumstances are more of an exception, not the rule

For the sake of illustration...

Revenue: 70K

Expenses
Mortgage: 48K
Property management: 10K
taxes: what 6-8K per year??
insurance: ???
I assume you are also responsible for upkeep like buying new things when old stuff breaks

So you probably clear about what, $5K per year? How much was the downpayment to purchase the house, maybe $100K? That would be about a 5% return per year on invested money excluding gains in equity but also ignoring maintenance costs and insurance.

Yes, your general illustration brings up good points, and I think for most folks, including myself, is correct. I use my real estate investment not so much to make a lot of money each year, but just as another way to ‘store’ my money- got some in the bank, some in funds, and some in real estate. I care more about having an appreciable asset down the line. Cuz after taxes, management fees, upkeep, the return is not tremendous. While it sounds like some folks who posted here actually make some good change, most will not, hence the 5-8% return... btw, I partner with a couple family members, and buy properties cash

 

[sevoflurane]

What are tax implications for the investment like that on returns before you’re made whole again?

All 3 properties are a bit different. The restaurant/bar and hotel will be the most tax efficient as we get dividends and will be very meticulous with the balance sheet. Rental property less so.

 

[facted]

i'm just ballparking some basic numbers. Obviously can't get exact without exact details. Depreciation probably in the neighborhood of something like $10K per year on something like this (can only depreciate building, not land value).

Property management is deductible, as are maintenance expenses. For a high worth individual looking to slash some trace it adds up. Honestly though, I'm only looking for 6% anyway.

 

[nimbus]

You're missing tax write-offs, including depreciation. This could be big if you already have maxed out other tax--free options.

I kept an old house as a rental during a bad market but couldn’t deduct net losses from the property because they phased out with my income. I suspect that is the case for most anesthesiologists. Rental property losses are not deductible against your income once your income exceeds $150k or so. If you have other passive income, it can be used to offset that.

 

[pgg]

For the sake of illustration...

Revenue: 70K

Expenses
Mortgage: 48K
Property management: 10K
taxes: what 6-8K per year??
insurance: ???
I assume you are also responsible for upkeep like buying new things when old stuff breaks

So you probably clear about what, $5K per year? How much was the downpayment to purchase the house, maybe $100K? That would be about a 5% return per year on invested money excluding gains in equity but also ignoring maintenance costs and insurance.

This is basically why we're getting out of the landlord business. Adjusted for risk and hassle I just couldn't find a compelling argument to keep the property vs put the money in a brokerage account at Schwab.

Especially since our tax exclusion is expiring in a few years. We lived in the house for a few years, and left because of military orders, so for tax purposes at sale it's not a rental and the capital gains will be untaxed. There's a 10 year limit to this exclusion so we have a strong incentive to get out soon.

And just looking at the age of some things at the house ... the pool, the grid tie inverter for the solar array, the roof... there are predictable maintenance costs coming up. It's time to get out.

Logging into Schwab is a lot easier.

For those who are playing up the equity gains from appreciation, you have to remember that long term, real estate generally keeps pace with inflation. Don't let recency bias cloud your number crunching here. Either $1 of equity in a property is expected to produce higher risk adjusted returns than $1 in another asset, or it's not.

 

[urge]

I have thought about residential rental income for a while but in order to make it attractive enough you have to buy so cheap that it basically requires another housing market collapse.

Every time I do the math I end up thinking dividend paying stocks are better.

If you factor in the aging population and the historically low mortgage rates, I would be surprised if the housing market keeps up with inflation. But if ever find something that cash flows above 8% with expenses and vacancy I would go for it.

 

[urge]

I kept an old house as a rental during a bad market but couldn’t deduct net losses from the property because they phased out with my income. I suspect that is the case for most anesthesiologists. Rental property losses aren’t deductible against your income once your income exceeds $150k or so. If you have other passive income, it can be used to offset that.

I'm fairly sure all passive losses regardless of income are not deductible against active income unless you claim you are actively managing your properties which few people claim.

 

[vector2]

I have thought about residential rental income for a while but in order to make it attractive enough you have to buy so cheap that it basically requires another housing market collapse.

Every time I do the math I end up thinking dividend paying stocks are better.

If you factor in the aging population and the historically low mortgage rates, I would be surprised if the housing market keeps up with inflation. But if ever find something that cash flows above 8% with expenses and vacancy I would go for it.

Really makes me wonder whether, say, 10 years ago the average investor bought $1m worth of shares in O with reinvested monthly dividends vs the equivalent value in actual real estate...who would be on top now.

 

[nimbus]

I'm fairly sure all passive losses regardless of income are not deductible against active income unless you claim you are actively managing your properties which few people claim.

My understanding was that you can if your AGI<150.

Edit: @urge is correct

Tax Q&A: Why can't I deduct my rental property losses?

 

[urge]

Really makes me wonder whether, say, 10 years ago the average investor bought $1m worth of shares in O with reinvested monthly dividends vs the equivalent value in actual real estate...who would be on top now.

In my town real estate has had an appreciation of 50% more or less for the last 10 years.

O with dividend reinvested would have had an appreciation around 300% according to a website calculator which might or might not be accurate.

 

[pgg]

Really makes me wonder whether, say, 10 years ago the average investor bought $1m worth of shares in O with reinvested monthly dividends vs the equivalent value in actual real estate...who would be on top now.

We've had 10 years of a crazy bull market.

Maybe a better question is whether or not the next 10 years will be like the last 10 years.

I mean, 10 years ago the correct investment was bitcoin, held until 2 years ago.

 

[Mman]

I believe real estate can be a decent investment over time. It is unlikely to have great returns. I'd think of it more like a good bond that generates cash flow. There is some risk, but it has a high probability of some return and is uncorrelated to things like the stock market. But depending on how you do it, it will also involve varying degrees of time/headache for you. The more time and hassle you are willing to do, the better your return will be.

Personally I don't have the time for it right now in my life. I get my investment returns through other means.

 

[urge]

I kept an old house as a rental during a bad market but couldn’t deduct net losses from the property because they phased out with my income. I suspect that is the case for most anesthesiologists. Rental property losses are not deductible against your income once your income exceeds $150k or so. If you have other passive income, it can be used to offset that.

My understanding is that most landlords declare a loss on their tax return per the IRS. Granted a lot of it is paper loss due to depreciation. But still, they are not making that much money out of their properties. People made up by appreciation during the last 20 yr housing bubble.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Ok, I'm not a doc. I'm a CPA with 25 years of experience. I would strongly advise against active real estate investing for physicians for a number of reasons. First, the efficient market theory does not apply to real estate. Every point in space is unique. Buyers need to spend their time familiarizing themselves with the market and they can still make horrendous guesses. There can also be environmental or structural problems with properties and a naive purchaser can get hung with a bill. This is the adverse selection problem at its worst.

Second, you can say goodbye to preparing your own tax return. I haven't met a physician who is fluent in all of the depreciation rules, the passive activity loss rules, the recapture of depreciation, the impact of investing in real estate across state lines etc. Do you want to spend your time learning all of this junk when you could be making money by practicing medicine? If you make the mistake of actively investing in properties, make sure you get all of the depreciation schedules (book, federal, federal AMT and state) from the CPA. You want these every year for audit purposes and if you want to switch CPAs, you won't be held hostage. Don't take "no" for an answer! Withhold the payment of fees until you get them. You will also want all of the schedules pertaining to the suspension of passive losses.

I would also strongly advise against investing in what may appear to be closely held limited partnerships. If some fly by night lawyer or promoter puts an LP together, there is a chance that if it fails to pay its bills an enterprising plaintiff's lawyer could demonstrate that it was in fact a general partnership and all of the investors could be on the hook. This happens.

Finally, please remember that when you sell a property in 10 or 15 years you will pay a tax on the gain. That "gain" may primarily consist of inflation. Furthermore, the gain won't be taxed merely using the capital gain rates. In most instances the gain on the sale of fully depreciated tangible personal property is taxed at ordinary rates and the gain on the sale of the structural components will be taxed, to the extent of prior depreciation, at a rate of 25%.

 

[acidbase1]

Ok, I'm not a doc. I'm a CPA with 25 years of experience. I would strongly advise against active real estate investing for physicians for a number of reasons. First, the efficient market theory does not apply to real estate. Every point in space is unique. Buyers need to spend their time familiarizing themselves with the market and they can still make horrendous guesses. There can also be environmental or structural problems with properties and a naive purchaser can get hung with a bill. This is the adverse selection problem at its worst.

Second, you can say goodbye to preparing your own tax return. I haven't met a physician who is fluent in all of the depreciation rules, the passive activity loss rules, the recapture of depreciation, the impact of investing in real estate across state lines etc. Do you want to spend your time learning all of this junk when you could be making money by practicing medicine? If you make the mistake of actively investing in properties, make sure you get all of the depreciation schedules (book, federal, federal AMT and state) from the CPA. You want these every year for audit purposes and if you want to switch CPAs, you won't be held hostage. Don't take "no" for an answer! Withhold the payment of fees until you get them. You will also want all of the schedules pertaining to the suspension of passive losses.

I would also strongly advise against investing in what may appear to be closely held limited partnerships. If some fly by night lawyer or promoter puts an LP together, there is a chance that if it fails to pay its bills an enterprising plaintiff's lawyer could demonstrate that it was in fact a general partnership and all of the investors could be on the hook. This happens.

Finally, please remember that when you sell a property in 10 or 15 years you will pay a tax on the gain. That "gain" may primarily consist of inflation. Furthermore, the gain won't be taxed merely using the capital gain rates. In most instances the gain on the sale of fully depreciated tangible personal property is taxed at ordinary rates and the gain on the sale of the structural components will be taxed, to the extent of prior depreciation, at a rate of 25%.

First, of course you’re going to be educated when making an investment

Second, who the heck prepares their own tax returns?

Lastly, you pay capital gains on investments, you’re always going to pay taxes.

I’m not going to sit here and say one way of investing is better than the other. However, I know three physicians who’ve made insane amounts of money in RE enabling themselves to quit practicing

Very myoptic viewpoints imo

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

First, of course you’re going to be educated when making an investment
Second, who the heck prepares their own tax returns?
Lastly, you pay capital gains on investments, you’re always going to pay taxes.
I’m not going to sit here and say one way of investing is better than the other. However, I know three physicians who’ve made insane amounts of money in RE enabling themselves to quit practicing
Very myoptic viewpoints imo

You may think you are educated but what have you actually learned about real estate investing? Do you have a law degree or an MBA? This is not for amateurs.
If you just sock money away in your tax sheltered vehicle at work and invest in a few index funds, preparing your own tax return is not all that hard with good software. If you start investing in real estate and have lots of properties, you can run up a tax prep bill in the thousands due to tax elections, potential audits, tax projections, estimated payments etc. I know. I've sent some of those bills out. That eats into your return on investment.
I tried to point out that there are differing tax rates depending on the nature of the asset sold and the length of time it was held and depreciated. Not all capital gains are taxed equally. Some are taxed at ordinary rates. Some are taxed at the lowest cap gain rate. Some are in the middle. Can you define and discuss unrecaptured 1250 gain?
You need to understand that it was a real estate bubble that almost sent the world's economy into the crapper 10 years ago. Lehman Brothers bet on mortgage backed securities. Look at Merrill Lynch. That is the universe. A few braggarts don't make the market. I presume that you haven't spoken with the tens of thousands of people who invested in property in 2005 and threw the keys at the bank in 2010.

 

[pgg]

You may think you are educated but what have you actually learned about real estate investing? Do you have a law degree or an MBA? This is not for amateurs.
If you just sock money away in your tax sheltered vehicle at work and invest in a few index funds, preparing your own tax return is not all that hard with good software. If you start investing in real estate and have lots of properties, you can run up a tax prep bill in the thousands due to tax elections, potential audits, tax projections, estimated payments etc. I know. I've sent some of those bills out. That eats into your return on investment.
I tried to point out that there are differing tax rates depending on the nature of the asset sold and the length of time it was held and depreciated. Not all capital gains are taxed equally. Some are taxed at ordinary rates. Some are taxed at the lowest cap gain rate. Some are in the middle. Can you define and discuss unrecaptured 1250 gain?
You need to understand that it was a real estate bubble that almost sent the world's economy into the crapper 10 years ago. Lehman Brothers bet on mortgage backed securities. Look at Merrill Lynch. That is the universe. A few braggarts don't make the market. I presume that you haven't spoken with the tens of thousands of people who invested in property in 2005 and threw the keys at the bank in 2010.

Well put.

acidbase1 knows three doctors who made a killing in real estate. I know more than three who got hit with huge losses after buying houses in 2005 and 2006. One of them bought a large house with a negative amortization mortgage, because real estate always goes up. We physicians aren't immune to the Dunning-Kruger effect. You don't have to go far to find a confident stock market player who obviously never invested a dime prior to 2009. One would think that a bunch of trained scientists would have no difficulty applying things like confirmation bias and survival bias to their lives outside of journal clubs. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

I bought the house I live in right now in 2006. Today, 12 year later, it's probably worth about $40K less than what I paid for it. Maybe I wasn't educated enough.

 

[vector2]

We've had 10 years of a crazy bull market.

Maybe a better question is whether or not the next 10 years will be like the last 10 years.

I mean, 10 years ago the correct investment was bitcoin, held until 2 years ago.

How bout a 30 yr time frame then. Enough to capture two recessions, although otoh we had been in a 40 yr bond bull market

 

[Mman]

If you start investing in real estate and have lots of properties, you can run up a tax prep bill in the thousands due to tax elections, potential audits, tax projections, estimated payments etc. I know. I've sent some of those bills out. That eats into your return on investment.

I'd suggest if someone is getting a bill for thousands of dollars for a tax return that they find a new accountant. My return is usually around 100 pages at this point and I still only pay $500 for it from the best accountant in town.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I'd suggest if someone is getting a bill for thousands of dollars for a tax return that they find a new accountant. My return is usually around 100 pages at this point and I still only pay $500 for it from the best accountant in town.

The length of a return is insignificant. Audit risk and complexity drive the price.

How do you know who the best accountant in town is? What are your credentials?

At CPA firms today $400 is the rate for simple wage earner returns in medium sized cities. If your accountant is charging you $500 for a return with numerous rental properties, he/she either has a lousy reputation, is working out of his/her basement with poor research resources and lousy software, puts no thought into your tax situation, doesn't keep records to back you up in an audit or is just plain stupid. I see returns from new clients with rental properties and in many cases the depreciation elections/methods are wrong, state tax laws are ignored and planning opportunities are missed.

 

[Shimmy8]

Maybe you charge too much? You sure do have quite the opinion of yourself, it seems.

 

[Mman]

The length of a return is insignificant. Audit risk and complexity drive the price.

How do you know who the best accountant in town is? What are your credentials?

At CPA firms today $400 is the rate for simple wage earner returns in medium sized cities. If your accountant is charging you $500 for a return with numerous rental properties, he/she either has a lousy reputation, is working out of his/her basement with poor research resources and lousy software, puts no thought into your tax situation, doesn't keep records to back you up in an audit or is just plain stupid. I see returns from new clients with rental properties and in many cases the depreciation elections/methods are wrong, state tax laws are ignored and planning opportunities are missed.

none of the above. They are the largest by far and handle the biggest companies in town and have a great record with audits. And I'm generating all sorts of K1 income from different places. The actual cost of doing the return to them is minimal. We also use them for our corporate accounting for our business generating >$100M in revenue per year (although my personal returns predate our corporate relationship).